The Puzzler Posted March 13, 2012 Author #151 Share Posted March 13, 2012 With Bur and Bor it means apparently son, which sounds alot like Hur really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG guy Posted March 13, 2012 #152 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think the Po River Valley to be a later epoch than Poseidon for my blacksmith tribe, and a Po's stone could perhaps be in order, but I'm thinking these other linkages for a Posidon/Beroe, and miner/blacksmiths around Lebanon may be much more realistic. As would be Hephaestus/Beroe-Lemnos Isle-Etruscans. Which ties to Kabeiros cult of Samothrace, and other locations. Afterall, Poseidon and Beroe are on the coin I attached. A Nordic blacksmith is named Brokkr. Here's a link. Open the part for dwarfs, then open the page for Brokkr therein. Note he's a dwarf as is Kubera of India. His brother Eitri may enable the country name Eritrea (south of Egypt), and the Buri penisula on the Red Sea in this country, by name perhaps, and the Norse god Buri, too. The etymology for a Norse Eitri as of fundalmantal importance as to the origin of the Norse Buri, and their Audumia, 1st god/goddess progenitors of their mythical beliefs. For Bor, Russians call the North wind Buran, the name also given to their Space Shuttle that never actually flew. What is the etymology? Isn't Russia where the Boreas wind originates? Is it Borean, or Borea? Or, are the Boreads that built the Argo for Jason, Burans, from Borea? Dwarfs Norse Mythology Eritrea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I have to reconcile your comments and attachments yet, but I have another version of the lego-linguistics to consider if we can relate to iron as "holy metal - or as - a gift from god", and of very anceint periods derived from meteoritic iron, I will claim as early European immigrants, in time for King Arthur anyway. A very popular sword is Excalibur. This is also referenced to both England and France (Gaul), and there is some issues as to its name, and pedigree. This link should get us reacquainted with this legend in several linguistic variants, and different text about the myths of this sword, and its name, for some basic Excalibur etymology. Think "SHAMANISM" as you read this, and recall our previous blogs within the context of the current thinking given overall here using localized linguistics. I would claim its too narrow to allow for a logical model to be assembled from. This is why I'm suggesting another possible solution for this quagmire in understanding the myth and relic described therein. I don't believe Excaliber was ever actually a real sword, but it could be. It doesn't really matter to me whether it is, or not. Excalibur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Now if we were to take my Siberian Buryan tribe, as Mid-East Burjans, and then allow an Iberian (Caucasus), Lemnos Isle, and the Italy, Spain, and England, we get to Excaliber era. However, we need to dip through Egypt, and connect to the Northern folks, and dip into India along the way, too. However, if we take Siberian shamanism, and allow the context of blacksmiths and miners, and deified mountains therefrom, then I'll attempt to add another etymology for the word Excaliber in line with the attachments I've attached herein. I also need to borrow from Puzzler's attachment which shows the list of Saami runes, and for this the "x" shown as to mean "gift". So I see in Ex Calibur, the Ex is same as X, and means gift. The Calibur is from Kabeiros. Or, the sword Excaliber is a gift from to god-spirit Ka named Beiros (Beiro). Or, the sword excaliber is a gift from the wolf god named Beiros, or the wolf god (Ka or Ca), of the tribe named Beroe, that I contend is Burjan (Arabic), and Buryan (Siberia), and Burzyan in Bashkortostan (if this will help...p some). So to re-script that which I think would be correct applying my shamanistic approach, this would read: [Ex (gift) Cali (wolf's soul) Bur (Buryan/Burjan) tribe]. Excaliber should be Noricum Steel from the mines around the Swiss Alps, because this ore is like meteoritic iron with chrome and/or nickle in good percentages, as a natural outcome of this particular vein, I believe is totally by chance. Or, it could have been made from meteorites directly. I've handled such meteorites, and they look shinny in there raw form, and are quite heavy. Would be my choice for a personal meteorite, although they are all quite interesting. For a blacksmith in the Bible, the name is a personal name Tubal-Cain. I thought I should include this FYI. Tubal-cain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia One could maybe reconcile the name of Canary Islands from this name perhaps. I don't know yet, but there was a reference to a Cain as in canine for the name of this Island I recall. This Excalibur thing is beginning to bother me. I'll have to sleep on it. Also the B and the R are in the same order as suggested earlier. This is kind of important I think. In reverse order as RB, they are my initials, my first and middle name. As difficult as all this may seem, I'm trying to keep to a few basic concepts, it does involve a heavy dose of shamanistic thinking, and as long as I've been at this, I'm just starting to think in these terms I'll call proper for tracing my key root tribe origin, culture, and migrations. There is also a tribe called Bur or Burs around Romania (Dacian times), but Buri is also there, so I haven't learned much about them yet. After-all, Excalibur ends as Bur. Also, try Etruscan for a Basque connection. I'll see what I can find for this from your attached Basque language web page. Etruscan language is quite obtuse, and your Linear B may be with the Lemnian-Etruscan connection around 1200 BC. Quite difficult, let alone to add in Basque. Etruscan language is a bit skimpy for existing text, or grave markers and such. They are part of Italy's 1st kings list, about the Time Rome was founded, or co-founded, depending on resources and associated theories. This is a 753 BC time frame for Rome. Beat me up on this, or, entertain the possibility for Excalibur. Progress is painful, aye? A least we are getting some results, I think, albeit slim pickin's. GGG guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 13, 2012 Author #153 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Here's a myth about: BEROE was an Okeanid Nymph of the city of Beruit in Phoinikia (Phoenicia) (modern Lebanon). She was wooed by the gods Dionysos and Poseidon, and won by the latter as his bride. http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/NympheBeroe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 13, 2012 Author #154 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) The Borean wind came from above them, Thrace direction recorded by Greeks, as far as I know. Hyperborea was 'above' this. Above the Borean winds, so Russia could be included, I agree. In Dacia was a connection to Bur. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burs_(Dacia) That is Bur. According to Tomaschek, the root bur- is well known with the Dacian Thracian names: i.e. Burus (Thrax), Bουρχέντιος (that is to say Bhūri–Kanta, a Bessian from Thrace[5])Burebista (the king of Dacians that is maybe from Sanskrit bhūri "abundant, rich" and Iranian vista "possessor" [5]).[6] Apparently Buri is a common Swiss surname also. The bur root possibly rich, abundant could be a description of the kurgans - burial mounds, of which were filled riches...bury, to bury someone - to incarcerate them in the riches... Edited March 13, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 13, 2012 #155 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'd like to add a word which has "B-R" in it: "BURRA". burlesque 1660s, "derisive imitation, grotesque parody," from Fr. burlesque (16c.), from It. burlesco, from burla "joke, fun, mockery," possibly ultimately from L.L. (= Late Latin) burra "trifle, nonsense," lit. "flock of wool." http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=burlesque And then there is "boar", "beer", "bare", "bar", "buur" (Du: neighbour), "boer" *Du: peasant), "baar" (Du: stretcher/ingot), "baarlijke onzin" (Du: obvious nonsense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 13, 2012 #156 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think the Po River Valley to be a later epoch than Poseidon for my blacksmith tribe, and a Po's stone could perhaps be in order, but I'm thinking these other linkages for a Posidon/Beroe, and miner/blacksmiths around Lebanon may be much more realistic. As would be Hephaestus/Beroe-Lemnos Isle-Etruscans. Which ties to Kabeiros cult of Samothrace, and other locations. Afterall, Poseidon and Beroe are on the coin I attached. A Nordic blacksmith is named Brokkr. Here's a link. Open the part for dwarfs, then open the page for Brokkr therein. Note he's a dwarf as is Kubera of India. His brother Eitri may enable the country name Eritrea (south of Egypt), and the Buri penisula on the Red Sea in this country, by name perhaps, and the Norse god Buri, too. The etymology for a Norse Eitri as of fundalmantal importance as to the origin of the Norse Buri, and their Audumia, 1st god/goddess progenitors of their mythical beliefs. For Bor, Russians call the North wind Buran, the name also given to their Space Shuttle that never actually flew. What is the etymology? Isn't Russia where the Boreas wind originates? Is it Borean, or Borea? Or, are the Boreads that built the Argo for Jason, Burans, from Borea? Dwarfs Norse Mythology Eritrea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I have to reconcile your comments and attachments yet, but I have another version of the lego-linguistics to consider if we can relate to iron as "holy metal - or as - a gift from god", and of very anceint periods derived from meteoritic iron, I will claim as early European immigrants, in time for King Arthur anyway. A very popular sword is Excalibur. This is also referenced to both England and France (Gaul), and there is some issues as to its name, and pedigree. This link should get us reacquainted with this legend in several linguistic variants, and different text about the myths of this sword, and its name, for some basic Excalibur etymology. Think "SHAMANISM" as you read this, and recall our previous blogs within the context of the current thinking given overall here using localized linguistics. I would claim its too narrow to allow for a logical model to be assembled from. This is why I'm suggesting another possible solution for this quagmire in understanding the myth and relic described therein. I don't believe Excaliber was ever actually a real sword, but it could be. It doesn't really matter to me whether it is, or not. Excalibur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Now if we were to take my Siberian Buryan tribe, as Mid-East Burjans, and then allow an Iberian (Caucasus), Lemnos Isle, and the Italy, Spain, and England, we get to Excaliber era. However, we need to dip through Egypt, and connect to the Northern folks, and dip into India along the way, too. However, if we take Siberian shamanism, and allow the context of blacksmiths and miners, and deified mountains therefrom, then I'll attempt to add another etymology for the word Excaliber in line with the attachments I've attached herein. I also need to borrow from Puzzler's attachment which shows the list of Saami runes, and for this the "x" shown as to mean "gift". So I see in Ex Calibur, the Ex is same as X, and means gift. The Calibur is from Kabeiros. Or, the sword Excaliber is a gift from to god-spirit Ka named Beiros (Beiro). Or, the sword excaliber is a gift from the wolf god named Beiros, or the wolf god (Ka or Ca), of the tribe named Beroe, that I contend is Burjan (Arabic), and Buryan (Siberia), and Burzyan in Bashkortostan (if this will help...p some). So to re-script that which I think would be correct applying my shamanistic approach, this would read: [Ex (gift) Cali (wolf's soul) Bur (Buryan/Burjan) tribe]. Excaliber should be Noricum Steel from the mines around the Swiss Alps, because this ore is like meteoritic iron with chrome and/or nickle in good percentages, as a natural outcome of this particular vein, I believe is totally by chance. Or, it could have been made from meteorites directly. I've handled such meteorites, and they look shinny in there raw form, and are quite heavy. Would be my choice for a personal meteorite, although they are all quite interesting. For a blacksmith in the Bible, the name is a personal name Tubal-Cain. I thought I should include this FYI. Tubal-cain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia One could maybe reconcile the name of Canary Islands from this name perhaps. I don't know yet, but there was a reference to a Cain as in canine for the name of this Island I recall. This Excalibur thing is beginning to bother me. I'll have to sleep on it. Also the B and the R are in the same order as suggested earlier. This is kind of important I think. In reverse order as RB, they are my initials, my first and middle name. As difficult as all this may seem, I'm trying to keep to a few basic concepts, it does involve a heavy dose of shamanistic thinking, and as long as I've been at this, I'm just starting to think in these terms I'll call proper for tracing my key root tribe origin, culture, and migrations. There is also a tribe called Bur or Burs around Romania (Dacian times), but Buri is also there, so I haven't learned much about them yet. After-all, Excalibur ends as Bur. Also, try Etruscan for a Basque connection. I'll see what I can find for this from your attached Basque language web page. Etruscan language is quite obtuse, and your Linear B may be with the Lemnian-Etruscan connection around 1200 BC. Quite difficult, let alone to add in Basque. Etruscan language is a bit skimpy for existing text, or grave markers and such. They are part of Italy's 1st kings list, about the Time Rome was founded, or co-founded, depending on resources and associated theories. This is a 753 BC time frame for Rome. Beat me up on this, or, entertain the possibility for Excalibur. Progress is painful, aye? A least we are getting some results, I think, albeit slim pickin's. GGG guy. Excalibur King Arthur's sword, c.1300, from O.Fr. Escalibor, corruption of Caliburn, in Geoffrey of Monmouth (c.1140) Caliburnus, apparently from Welsh Caledvwlch probably a variant of the legendary Irish sword name Caladbolg which may be lit. "hard-belly," i.e. "voracious." http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Excalibur&searchmode=none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 13, 2012 #157 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Excalibur King Arthur's sword, c.1300, from O.Fr. Escalibor, corruption of Caliburn, in Geoffrey of Monmouth (c.1140) Caliburnus, apparently from Welsh Caledvwlch probably a variant of the legendary Irish sword name Caladbolg which may be lit. "hard-belly," i.e. "voracious." http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Excalibur&searchmode=none The culture of the Sarmatians has many similarities to the legends of Arthur. Apart from their skill as armoured knights, they held great, near religious, fondness for their swords — their tribal worship was directed at a sword sticking up from the ground, similar to the sword in the stone motif. They carried standards in the form of dragons, a symbol used by Arthur and his father Uther Pendragon according to the 12th century pseudo-history Historia Regum Britanniae. The Sarmatians also had shamans, which proponents have linked to Arthur's wizard Merlin. Proponents of the 'Sarmatian connection' theory also look to the legends of the Sarmatians' descendants for evidence. The Ossetians, an Iranian people from Ossetia, a country in the Caucasus, speak the Ossetic language, the only Sarmatian language still spoken. The Ossetian Nart sagas, indigenous epics celebrating the exploits of an ancient tribe of heroes, contain a number of interesting parallels to the Arthurian legends. First, the life of the Nart warrior Batraz is tied to his sword, which must be thrown into the sea at his death. When the wounded Batraz asks his last surviving comrade to do the task for him, his companion tries to fool him twice before finally hurling the weapon into the sea. This is very similar to the tale of Arthur's wondrous sword Excalibur which had to be returned to the Lady of the Lake at his death by his last surviving knight, Bedivere. Like Batraz's friend, Bedivere is reluctant to lose such a wonderful sword and lies to his master twice before finally assenting. Additionally, the Nart heroes, Soslan and Sosryko, collect the beards of vanquished enemies to trim their cloaks, which is the practice of Arthur's enemy Rience. Like Rience, Soslan has one last beard to obtain before his cloak is complete. Two other similar motifs are the Cup of the Narts ("Nartyamonga"), which appeared at feasts, delivered to each person what he liked best to eat, and which was kept by the bravest of the Narts ("Knights") - somewhat similar to the Arthurian Holy Grail; and the magical woman, dressed in white, associated with water, who helps the hero acquire his sword, similar to the Arthurian Lady of the Lake. Critics of the Sarmatian hypothesis note that much of the parallels or similarities between Arthurian and Sarmatian tales only occur in writings dating from and after Geoffrey of Monmouth (Latin: Galfridus Monemutensis - thus the terms "pre-Galfridian" and post-Galfridian") published Historia Regum Britanniae, which was a seminal influence on succeeding Arthurian works. Despite proponents' claims of Merlin, the Lady of the Lake, the Sword in the Stone and the Grail as crucial Arthurian elements (and therefore relevant in investigating Arthur's historicity), there is no mention of these in pre-Galfridian tales of Arthur. There is also no mention of Excalibur, then called Caledfwlch, being returned to (and in the first place, acquired from) a body of water. Some of the strongest similarities of Arthurian and Sarmatian tales occur in Thomas Malory's Le Morte D'Arthur, when Arthur and his warriors had already evolved into "knights in shining armor". Critics conclude that Sarmatian influence was limited to the post-Galfridian development of the tales instead of historical basis, if at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_basis_for_King_Arthur#Sarmatian_hypothesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 14, 2012 Author #158 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) OK, so I was reading up some more on the area of the Adriatic and found some interesting connections, the Veneti were responsible for the amber trade so obviously had Baltic connections. Their name may be associated with Venus, wine and free. Strabo reports he thinks that the Adriatic Veneti were the SAME AS THE CELTIC TRIBE of the same name, from the Belgian coast. The Greek historian Strabo (64 BC–AD 24), on the other hand, conjectured that the Adriatic Veneti were the same as the Celtic tribe of the same name who formerly lived on the Belgian coast and fought against Julius Caesar. He further suggested that the identification of the Adriatic Veneti with the Paphlagonian Enetoi led by Antenor — which he attributes to Sophocles (496–406 BC) — was a mistake due to the similarity of the names.[11] Strabo also gives information on the then-current domains of the Veneti (Book V, Chapter 1). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Veneti These people, the Celtic Veneti lived in Brittany - Belgium, in the area known as Armorica... The Veneti were a seafaring Celtic people who lived in the Brittany peninsula (France), which in Roman times formed part of an area called Armorica. They gave their name to the modern city of Vannes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneti_(Gaul) Pliny the Elder claims Amorica was Aquitania. The Adriatic Venetic may have come from Aquitania. This is a crucial piece of information for me, I missed the connection last time around because I wasn't looking for it. For the trade and movement of the amber and other goods (tin?) by these people from Aquitaine gives the entrance of ancient Basque and Aquitanian elements into Northern Italy. It's actually from Aquitaine that I traced the original idea that these people came into the Mediterranean - my Eleanor of Aquitaine was a Trojan joke... Pliny the Elder, in his Natural History (2.17.105), claims that Armorica was the older name for Aquitania, stating Armorica's southern boundary extended to the Pyrenees. Taking into account the Gaulish origin of the name, this is perfectly correct and logical, as Aremorica is not a 'country name', but a word that describes a type of geographical region - a region that is by the sea. Pliny lists the following Celtic tribes as living in the area: the Aedui and Carnuteni as having treaties with Rome; the Meldi and Secusiani as having some measure of independence; and the Boii, Senones, Aulerci (both the Eburovices and Cenomani), the Parisii, Tricasses, Andicavi, Viducasses, Bodiocasses, Veneti, Coriosvelites, Diablinti, Rhedones, Turones, and the Atseui. Interesting also that the word ARGOAD seems very like Argo(lis) - which described forest inlands. In Breton (which with Welsh and Cornish belongs to the Brythonic branch of Insular Celtic languages), "on [the] sea" is war vor (Welsh ar y môr), though the older form arvor is used to refer to the coastal regions of Brittany, in contrast to argoad (ar "on/at", coad "forest" [Welsh ar goed (coed "trees")] for the inland regions.[2] These cognate modern usages suggest that the Romans first contacted coastal people in the inland region and assumed that the regional name Aremorica referred to the whole area, both coastal and inland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorica Edited March 14, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted March 14, 2012 #159 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Call in Edo Nyland and these lego linguistics folks wont find it difficult at all. he will link A to Z in any language...lol Edited March 14, 2012 by The_Spartan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 14, 2012 Author #160 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Call in Edo Nyland and these lego linguistics folks wont find it difficult at all. he will link A to Z in any language...lol If only you could put your brain to some actual use instead of just blurting out stupid put-down posts that have very little relevance to anything... Edited March 14, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 14, 2012 #161 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If only you could put your brain to some actual use instead of just blurting out stupid put-down posts that have very little relevance to anything... Lol, this I posted in the OLB thread a couple of days ago: Van Gorp, this guy is even better than you: he explains every word on the planet, from every language, by hacking the words to pieces and then change the pieces into complete Basque words, and finally makes up a sentence that 'explains' the word: http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/nylink2.htm http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/archeol/odysseus.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted March 14, 2012 #162 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If only you could put your brain to some actual use instead of just blurting out stupid put-down posts that have very little relevance to anything... I have my own specialties, fields of interests and going around playing Lego Linguistics is not one of those. Logic is better put to use in cases where there are evidences. and this thread is no property of yours to back bite. I made a humorous comment. Well, if some folks have lost the portion of their brain which recognizes humor or were born without it- that's not my problem. I made that comment because Edo Nyland sounds just like you and Mr. Burjan - Hell bent on linking languages and words which have no connection between them. Carry on. perhaps, you could join Edo and write a best selling book too..what say? BTW...i put my mind to research in Ancient Indian Mythology and History. That's my speciality. Not your cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 14, 2012 Author #163 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I have my own specialties, fields of interests and going around playing Lego Linguistics is not one of those. Logic is better put to use in cases where there are evidences. and this thread is no property of yours to back bite. I made a humorous comment. Well, if some folks have lost the portion of their brain which recognizes humor or were born without it- that's not my problem. I made that comment because Edo Nyland sounds just like you and Mr. Burjan - Hell bent on linking languages and words which have no connection between them. Carry on. perhaps, you could join Edo and write a best selling book too..what say? BTW...i put my mind to research in Ancient Indian Mythology and History. That's my speciality. Not your cup of tea. I have every right to backbite when your stupid comments are directed at my posts. You said yourself: "I made that comment because Edo Nyland sounds just like you and Mr. Burjan" Hardly funny, maybe for those who, like you, have nothing better to do than use the term 'lego linguistics' over and over, like a broken record.... Edited March 14, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 14, 2012 Author #164 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Actually, this whole board bores me to tears these days, my sense of humour seems to have been replaced by having to defend myself from everyone constantly blathering on about every post I make is full of lego-linguistics.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 14, 2012 #165 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Actually, this whole board bores me to tears these days, my sense of humour seems to have been replaced by having to defend myself from everyone constantly blathering on about every post I make is full of lego-linguistics.... Really? I actually quoted a couple of your posts in the OLB thread today, and one of them inspired me to go look a bit further for those "Veneti". . Edited March 14, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 14, 2012 Author #166 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Really? I actually quoted a couple of your posts in the OLB thread today, and one of them inspired me to go look a bit further for those "Veneti". . I even got bored in the OLB thread...but actually I think that is where I'll return, at least you have a passion for finding out the answers and give informative, interesting posts, unlike many others who come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG guy Posted March 15, 2012 #167 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think I can get to this Veneti question, and allow a Liburnian connection to the Adriatic, and a Liburnian type ship vessel, of the faster variety war ship. They fetch a date around 500 BC. They also trace to Bari Italy, as Barion or Barium in early name forms, in Apulia (Apollo) region of Italy. I've always felt Liburnian people can be a Buryan/Burjan tribe here in this time frame, and can be of Croatia (Vuko - wolf) river (var), Vukovar. There was a study called "The Liburnian language shows root in Veneti language by Yoshamya in 2005. He is referenced in this wiki overview in their ref's table. I don't know the extent of his studies, and I located this data in 2009, to mean, I don't know if it has been revised. Wiki page has some ship pictures worthy of notice. Take note of the burial type, and tumulus factors with these folks. The Wiki page also defines quite well my other Burjan tribe as pirates, and also referenced to Italy likewise. It sounds more like an enemy to me, rather than pirate. Note the Roman Navy used Liburna vessels, and also modified them some. Liburnians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Vindelicia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia To pick up on Yoshamya, I wrote the following down in Feb 2009, (condenced); that the Liburnian language shows root in Veneti language which derives from Lake Van Anatolia (Van Kingdoms). Burjans, and Hyperboreans can also trce to here, and I've read Hyperboreans called themselves "Vans", which could be Vandals in Eastern Europe later. Both Names trace to Po River Valley, or in proximity. I think Liburnians can be Caucasus Iberians, and perhaps Iberians in Spain, but also as Burgundians (some claim as Burjan equivalent) in their text, but I would add Siberian Buryan as equivalent, in addition too. I think your correct Puzzler on the Veneti, and this will aid your connections to Gaul regions (Burgundy), as well as others. I have yet to fully differentiate all regions of influence, at least to my full content, yet. Also note Boii references in the two overviews. The idea of artificial skull deformation can be traced in the N. Black Sea *stated to be Sarmations in my reading years back, but could be Alans, also in Gaul ~200 AD, and or Burjan/Buryan tribes. It has also been stated Burgundians practiced this on their burials along the Rhine, after they left the southern Gaul regions because they were beat up by the Romans, and went to Geneva (the remnant of the Burgundians left, for ~50 years, then to the Rhine. They were annexed onto German states in ~550 AD (from memory). They could have split where some migrated south into NE Spain (Iberian Spain) from Gaul's south-east wilderness at the time. To aid in knowledge and pics of older artifacts in NW Iberian Spain, I'v have a good web page. It discusses stone inscriptions, jewelery, locations, dates, and Iberian-Celtic relationship time frames, in this region. This allow inspection of some archaeological finds, and the current quasi-accepted analysis, or limitations. Artistic Expression and Material Culture in Celtic Gallaecia Also, if the Kabeiros cult wouldn't name their specific gods, but only as great gods, or mighty gods, they sound an awful lot like Druids to me. They too, didn't write down religious factors, or gods names of their beliefs, as this was deemed sacrilegious. On the comments by Puzzler on ring stones, and the definition as Linear B, and the character Po, to resemble a throne, I would say this seems totally realistic. Note Zeus is generally pictured sitting, as on a throne, his arm out, as in the runic diagram, but where a bird (eagle) is usually on his wrist. The eagle is a Thracian symbolic bird. Italy adopted this white eagle by Augustus with his temple on Palantine Hill in Rome, and perhaps the modified dome mosaic with the Lupercali archaeology ongoing. It is believed by some he changed the original mosaic, and added his new "eagle in the center. I recall this as ~100 BC time frame. Lupercali should date to Romulus and Remus founding Rome at 753 BC, and this undergtound grotto is supposed to have been constructed during much earlier time than the Augustine rule era. I believe Liburnian-Burjans would be also on Lemnos Island, with the god Hephaestus, perhaps in Veria (Berea) Macedonia, and then could be Buri-Dacians, as to differentiate Illyrian sub groups in Liburnian regions. Basically Caucasus Iberians, or Georgians (al-Burjan). I also need to fix my definitions regarding Beiro, and Kabeiros, wherein, I stated Hephaesus wife was Beiro, but was in actuality Kabeiros as follows (data from Wiki); Proteus, "old man of the sea" is son of Posedon in the Olympian theogony, and also herdsman of Poseidons Seals [great bull seal at center of harem - a bull seal harem. (Note this fits puzzler's definition for ringstones as gods throne - in the center - the stone alter, or table stone, defined as throne and seat of the kingdom of god) Proteus - from Mycenaean Greek Linear B language and earliest mention of Proteus - can be Minoan, Mycenaean, and proto-Greek. Cabeiri - Strabo, in Lemnos, the mother of the Cabeiri - there was no father - was Kabeiro herself, and a daughter of Proteus. Greeks may have called her Rhea. Greek myths identifies the Cabeiri as divine craftsman, son's, or grandson's of Hephaestus. Also worshiped on Lemnos Isle. At Thebes in Boetia they had a guild of smiths. Etymology from Wiki; 1) Kabir - semitic - "great", kbr as Semitic "very great", Kabar - Sumerian "copper". 2) Cabeiri, Mt Kabeiros in Berekyntia as "mother Earth goddess" Asia Minor (for us on this blog page - Troy regions, or Trojans). Kadmilus, one of the Cabeiri as "young boy" - "boy attendant", may be Etruscan loan word, or Lemnian (lemnos Isle). Myth is associated with metallurgy. I've added the Idaean Dactyls to this blacksmith umbrella. Because Proteus is son of Posidon, and Kabeiro is daughter of Proteus, then Kabeiros cult is linked to Poseidon, and Hephaestus. They are all related to "sea gods", and or "blacksmiths", due to Hephaestus and Idaean Dactyls occupations. I'll be back soon, Thanks for the Excalibur feedback. I'm still thinking about this sword. Maybe we'll get more feedback yet. It all seems like blacksmith lingo to me. The actual King Arthur dates are far removed from when these people brought this craft into Western Europe. A name like Kabeiros, or Cabeiri would be lost in meaning, but deified notions, such as god "charged" swords (iron sparks), is likely to survived, albeit transliterated through many regions and dialects. I'm OK with this for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 15, 2012 Author #168 Share Posted March 15, 2012 You generate some very interesting idea GGG, I like your posts too, even if much of it is hard for me to follow, simply because you know what you know and I don't know what you know, so it's hard to follow through sometimes on your connections - no matter - as you say, maybe if we just get some 'slim pickin's' from each other, then that is something. Nice wine comes from Burgundy - wine was a word that also fit into Veneti etymology The more you dig the more you find - seems French Burgundians might have migrated down from the Baltic Sea... In Old Norse the island was known as Borgundarholm, and in ancient Danish especially the island's name was Borghand or Borghund; these names were related to Old Norse borg "height" and bjarg/berg "mountain, rock", as it is an island that rises high from the sea.[4] Other names known for the island include Burgendaland (9th century), Hulmo / Holmus (Adam of Bremen), Burgundehulm (1145), and Borghandæholm (14th century).[5] Alfred the Great uses the form Burgenda land.[6] Some scholars[7] believe that the Burgundians are named after Bornholm; the Burgundians were a Germanic tribe which moved west when the western Roman Empire collapsed, and occupied and named Burgundy in France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bornholm This page contains rock art images from Bornholm.. http://donsmaps.com/bornholm.html like these... Same webpage. Latter part of Bronze Age c. 500BC I think it was Abe once pointed out they look like sleds and I can't get past that, each time I look at one they do look like sleds imo. But this is an island, so it would certainly seem they would be boats and the Sun, why would they have so many pictures of sleds on an island... It seems to me these people had alot of culture going on to create those images, so if they came down from there to France, it says it would be after the collapse of the Roman Empire. I do however see people coming out of Gotland mid Bronze Age, right near Bornholm, I wonder if they have a connection there too. Need more time on that one. I'll move onto the Liburnians next but I'll post this, as we have a big storm and the power might go out, I hate losing posts I've written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG guy Posted March 15, 2012 #169 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks Puzzler. I saw exactly the same things and the sun factor, but a friend saw snowflakes as some of the sun-like symbols. Because the sleds look tumbled and broken up, this suggest an avalanche to me. However, the one lower left pictogram looks like a boat with a Saami type sun symbol in proximity to the vessel, if this is a vessel. This could be a memorial to people that died in an avalanche, and, indeed the snowflakes would be randomly scattered around in the overall scene portrayed. Thus the boat could be the rescue team that came and discovered this, and then left this memorial inscription. I'll remind you that your the one that included this Saami sun symbol, of which I hadn't seen before, so a week or two back I doubt I could connect a sun symbol, nor differentiate possible snow flake symbols. What do you think?<br><br>I'm yet working a few avenues and will be back soon. Thanks for this part of the story. I think Burgundians maybe in Buriano Italy (where you can obtain Buriano wine, and the Buriano Bridge in the Mona Lisa painting, hangin in Louvre/France, all ~800AD) and in Burgundy at 550 AD. Lombards would be part of them maybe, Rhine ~200 AD, and their capital later in Milan (N. Italy) at ~800 AD. Thus, indirectly both groups can have an association, but difficult to tie down. I have more on Bornholm Isle and you may find a Burjan (Arabic) may be also Rujanes(Lapland), then part of Rugen Island Germany, where ancient Slavic type ruins also exist. Not sure on this, but Rugen is said to be the disappearing island in Slavic mythology which they call Buyan. So this leads me to believe that Buryan/Siberia and Burjan Arabic may be able to allow disassociated etymologies perhaps. See if these avenues lead to anything promising. <br><br>I'll be back with perhaps some more on the Bornholm question. Happy Hunting, GGG guy.<br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 16, 2012 Author #170 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) There's a place in Liburnia called the River Rasa - I was looking for a possible connection to Etruscans and found that name - they called themselves Rasanas. I do however think Etruscans may have been a type of Lycian, rather than Lydian. But I wouldn't be suprised if the Lycians were in the area of Liburnia either. Lycians had long hair, Achaeans are referred to as having long hair and also Ligurians had long hair. The Lycians are possibly the Lukka and been sailing, pirating the area since c. 2000BC. They seem to hold some answers. Edited March 16, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 17, 2012 Author #171 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) At any rate, Sophocles says that at the capture of Troy a leopard's skin was put before the doors of Antenor as a sign that his house was to be left unpillaged; and Antenor and his children safely escaped to Thrace with the survivors of the Heneti, and from there got across to the Adriatic Henetice. (Strabo). Livy, History of Rome: Antenor sailed into the furthest part of the Adriatic, accompanied by a number of Enetians who had been driven from Paphlagonia by a revolution and after losing their king Pylaemenes before Troy were looking for a settlement and a leader. IDEA: Such Enetians not necessarily were native Paphlagonians but colonists from the Balkans expelled by natives. In the Illiad, Homer refers to the Paphlagonians as one of the most ancient nations of Asia Minor, derived from the Eneti or Heneti. This reference has prompted speculations that the Paphlagonians are a stray branch of the Veneti, who migrated from the Balkans to settle at the head of the Adriatic. Others suggest that the Paphlagonians are kin to the Macedonians tracing common roots to the Phrygians. IDEA: As in the Anatolian section it seems that the Trojans can be linked to Teucrians, and those to Pannonians/Paeones, and the last are related to the Illyrians, the mith about a common ancestry between Veneti and Trojans could be recognized. http://www.illyrians.org/etruscansandveneti.html Edited March 17, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 17, 2012 Author #172 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Since Aquitanian language shows signs of being a Basque type language and also described as being part of the area of the Veneti of Gaul - it may have been them who came into Asia Minor is what I want to follow through some more. Most of the Atlantic coast of the Aquitani was sandy and thin-soiled; it grew millet, but was unproductive with respect to other products. Along this coast was also the gulf held by the Tarbelli; in their land, gold mines were abundant. Large quantities of gold could be mined with a minimum of refinement. The interior and mountainous country in this region had better soil. The Petrocorii and the Bituriges Cubi had fine ironworks; the Cadurci had linen factories; the Ruteni and the Gabales had silver mines.[citation needed] According to Strabo, the Aquitani were a wealthy people. Luerius, the King of the Arverni and the father of Bituitus who warred against Maximus Aemilianus and Dometius, is said to have been so exceptionally rich and extravagant that he once rode on a carriage through a plain, scattering gold and silver coins here and there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallia_Aquitania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 17, 2012 Author #173 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So, what kind of language does anyone think 'Pelasgian' was? This language that seemed to be what people spoke in Greece before the Hellenic layer came along and people changed their speech in some parts. Does anyone think it's an IE or non-IE language? The name Pelasgians (Greek: Πελασγοί, Pelasgoí, singular Πελασγός, Pelasgós) was used by some ancient Greek writers to refer to populations that were either the ancestors of the Greeks or who preceded the Greeks in Greece, "a hold-all term for any ancient, primitive and presumably indigenous people in the Greek world."[1] In general, "Pelasgian" has come to mean more broadly all the indigenous inhabitants of the Aegean Sea region and their cultures before the advent of the Greek language.[2] This is not an exclusive meaning, but other senses require identification when meant. During the classical period, enclaves under that name survived in several locations of mainland Greece, Crete and other regions of the Aegean. Populations identified as "Pelasgian" spoke a language or languages that at the time Greeks identified as "barbaric", even though some ancient writers described the Pelasgians as Greeks. A tradition also survived that large parts of Greece had once been Pelasgian before being Hellenized. These parts generally fell within the ethnic domain that by the 5th century BC was attributed to those speakers of ancient Greek who were identified as Ionians. The classification of the Pelasgian language(s), known only from non-Greek elements in Ancient Greek and detectable in some placenames, even whether or not Pelasgian was a single language, and the relationship of Pelasgians to prehistoric Hellenes are long-standing questions that have not received definitive answers. The field of study looks forward to additional evidence that may fill in the gaps. Many past and current theories exist. Some of them are colored by contemporary nationalist issues, which compromise their objectivity.[3] Archaeological excavations during the 20th century have unearthed artifacts in areas traditionally inhabited by the Pelasgians such as Thessaly, Attica, and Lemnos. Archaeologists excavating at Sesklo and Dimini have described Pelasgian material culture as Neolithic; others have related to Pelasgians material culture that is "Middle Helladic" and even the "Late Helladic" culture of Mycenaean Greece, where the corpus of brief inscriptions are already in an early form of Greek. Even the linking of archaeological material evidence to linguistic culture is called into question by Walter Pohl and other modern students of ethnogenesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 17, 2012 Author #174 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Since Aquitanian language shows signs of being a Basque type language and also described as being part of the area of the Veneti of Gaul - it may have been them who came into Asia Minor is what I want to follow through some more. Most of the Atlantic coast of the Aquitani was sandy and thin-soiled; it grew millet, but was unproductive with respect to other products. Along this coast was also the gulf held by the Tarbelli; in their land, gold mines were abundant. Large quantities of gold could be mined with a minimum of refinement. The interior and mountainous country in this region had better soil. The Petrocorii and the Bituriges Cubi had fine ironworks; the Cadurci had linen factories; the Ruteni and the Gabales had silver mines.[citation needed] According to Strabo, the Aquitani were a wealthy people. Luerius, the King of the Arverni and the father of Bituitus who warred against Maximus Aemilianus and Dometius, is said to have been so exceptionally rich and extravagant that he once rode on a carriage through a plain, scattering gold and silver coins here and there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallia_Aquitania After I wrote this I couldn't recall where I'd read that the Gaul Veneti were part of Aquitania because on the maps they are a bit of a distance apart. Pliny said it: Pliny the Elder, in his Natural History (2.17.105), claims that Armorica was the older name for Aquitania, stating Armorica's southern boundary extended to the Pyrenees. Just because I wanted to clarify that connection before moving on. Edited March 17, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 17, 2012 Author #175 Share Posted March 17, 2012 OK, so what I have is a fragile line through from the Basque-like language spoken on the Aquitanian Atlantic coast to the Veneti in Venice, which might have been part of a possible migration to Asia Minor (as per most legends have Troy settled after arriving there - with an Atlantic/Atlas ancestry (through Elektra) - then after the Trojan war they migrated back to the same area of the Venetian plains. Myth corroborates a legend that Dardanus was from Italy. This tradition holds that Dardanus was a Tyrrhenian prince, and that his mother Electra was married to Corythus, king of Tarquinia as though an outward migration occurred, then they came back. Quite frankly, I find it an odd story that BOTH Etruscans and Romans happened to derive from journeys out of Anatolia and ended up as neighbours thousands of miles away - I just don't know if I buy that story, I constantly search for answers that seem more probable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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