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SamDavies

Questions for Sceptics

72 posts in this topic

I’d like to ask the sceptics here when they believe was the last catastrophic event to hit mankind killing many or most.

I ask because I’d like a sceptics explanation to why worldwide there have been cultures found that date back 12,000 years ago that suddenly appeared (no evidence of a gradual transitionary culture in or around the area or buildings/temples/structures) who had extremely advanced building technology that, IMO, put us to shame. Ancient buildings that needed complex mathematics to cut and construct accurately. Some holding massive stone or granite blocks that weighed up to 1200 tonnes and had been placed upon other blocks. Then these civilizations suddenly vanished into thin air, so to speak, and the knowledge of how to build these structures taken with them!

Also, explain why the hundreds of temples/structures/buildings are constructed in a way that they recognise/line up with (or used to) mostly the star system Sirius despite the fact that it is assumed most of these cultures never had contact with each other. And/or also recognise and demonstrate the solstice.

If these structures were of pure human origin built with independently learnt human knowledge why did the knowledge of building such breath taking :w00t: structures appear as suddenly as they disappeared. Surely with so many cultures affected some of these cultures would have retained such architectural and cosmological knowledge given the human desire to design, build, construct, explore and conquer. Especially if no known destruction of these cultures, either by a worldwide catastrophic event, war or plague occurred.

We, as believers are always giving our explanations that never seem logical or appropriate though consistent with the descendants of some of these cultures. What explanation would a sceptic give to a believer (or culture) for us (them) to doubt or even question what we/they believe obtained through study, observation, artefacts, ancient writings, personal experience and circumstantial evidence, that like in a reasonable court of law, would be permissible.

Thanks.

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I hope you realize you've just opened a can of worms, get ready to get your fill of "Skepticism" :no:

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The problem here is a sceptic is well just that a sceptic.

Its a simple case of saying this is what happened and then someone using either logic or complete lack there of to counter what the evidence points at.

So can they disprove the fact that something MUST have killed these races and cultures? Well they can try but at the end of the day, they not here now so something must have, was it a raging bunch of killer butterflies, who knows (but where the butterflies now, or proof they existed?) but there can be NO doubt at all that something on a global scale happened to this world we call home to cause the destruction and down fall of ancient races, and a sceptic can say what ever they want about it, they can fight and argue till blue in the face and till the cows come home but the simple fact of the matter is THE RACES OF THAT TIME DISAPPEARED without leave much of a trace at all other than a few pillars in Turkey or even later than that time frame (if you believe the Mike Tellinger) South African Adams calendar. So where did they go if they were not destroyed by a global catastrophe?

A coin always has 2 sides to it and as long as people are allowed to formulate an opinion there will be sceptics, but lets be honest here how boring would it be without them??

But great topic and i look forward to reading the replies however far out there they may be...

Have a great day Peter

Edited by Peter Cox

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My simple answer to the questions in the OP is this:

search this forum, for all those 'facts' have been dealt with many times.

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I ask because I’d like a sceptics explanation to why worldwide there have been cultures found that date back 12,000 years ago that suddenly appeared (no evidence of a gradual transitionary culture in or around the area or buildings/temples/structures) who had extremely advanced building technology that, IMO, put us to shame

When I see remnants of skyscrapers, metal buildings, planes and plastics, maybe then I'll believe that they were more advanced.

Ancient buildings that needed complex mathematics to cut and construct accurately.

And modern buildings need complex materials, engineering, construction and mathematics to erect and withstand the elements. I dont think the "complex mathematics" used to build the pyramids out of stone heavy stone blocks are nearly as complex as the mathematics used to build skyscrapers that can withstand hurricane sized winds using the strongest light materials we can manufacture.

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I’d like to ask the sceptics here when they believe was the last catastrophic event to hit mankind killing many or most.

I ask because I’d like a sceptics explanation to why worldwide there have been cultures found that date back 12,000 years ago that suddenly appeared (no evidence of a gradual transitionary culture in or around the area or buildings/temples/structures) who had extremely advanced building technology that, IMO, put us to shame. Ancient buildings that needed complex mathematics to cut and construct accurately. Some holding massive stone or granite blocks that weighed up to 1200 tonnes and had been placed upon other blocks. Then these civilizations suddenly vanished into thin air, so to speak, and the knowledge of how to build these structures taken with them!

Also, explain why the hundreds of temples/structures/buildings are constructed in a way that they recognise/line up with (or used to) mostly the star system Sirius despite the fact that it is assumed most of these cultures never had contact with each other. And/or also recognise and demonstrate the solstice.

If these structures were of pure human origin built with independently learnt human knowledge why did the knowledge of building such breath taking :w00t: structures appear as suddenly as they disappeared. Surely with so many cultures affected some of these cultures would have retained such architectural and cosmological knowledge given the human desire to design, build, construct, explore and conquer. Especially if no known destruction of these cultures, either by a worldwide catastrophic event, war or plague occurred.

We, as believers are always giving our explanations that never seem logical or appropriate though consistent with the descendants of some of these cultures. What explanation would a sceptic give to a believer (or culture) for us (them) to doubt or even question what we/they believe obtained through study, observation, artefacts, ancient writings, personal experience and circumstantial evidence, that like in a reasonable court of law, would be permissible.

Thanks.

Frankly, spoken by someone watching too much ancient aliens on tv and letting intellectual laziness set root. All those "facts" you mention, well, they are not. And even a mediocre amount of effort and research should tell you as much.

Seriously, for instance, can you in your own words describe what this advanced mathematics you are referring to and how it was applied?

I could probably off the top of my head now mention the first 10 posters that could tear all those "facts" in your post apart without even thinking, but why should they bother when it is clear that you haven't performed even an inkling of research on your own?

Lay off the ancient alien show for a bit and try your local library or even your local university. Learning real facts is actually rather rewarding. And it would prevent you from mindlessly parroting uneducated tales you have seen on tv.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Badeskov, did you really feel 'challenged' in any way by the OP?

Well, that was of course a rethorical question: I know you didn't feel challenged.

To me it was like a 10 years old challenged me by saying, "Na na na-na na, you still didn't say why it is clear the earth revolves around the sun, while we all can see it's the other way round."

Let's not lose hope in humanity.

But there will be other scientists who will invent new technology for these m...s to keep venting their, uhm, challenging ideas.

And now look at this great pic:

post-18246-0-52817600-1329251854_thumb.j

No meant for you, Badeskov. But you knew that.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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For Badeskov

I’d like to ask the sceptics here when they believe was the last catastrophic event to hit mankind killing many or most.

I ask because I’d like a sceptics explanation to why worldwide there have been cultures found that date back 12,000 years ago that suddenly appeared (no evidence of a gradual transitionary culture in or around the area or buildings/temples/structures) who had extremely advanced building technology that, IMO, put us to shame.

No culture has ever "suddenly appeared," and 12,000 years ago, humans were barely building decent stone walls, much less having "advanced building technology."

Ancient buildings that needed complex mathematics to cut and construct accurately.

Even some modern buildings require no "advanced mathematics" for their mere construction.

Some holding massive stone or granite blocks that weighed up to 1200 tonnes and had been placed upon other blocks. Then these civilizations suddenly vanished into thin air, so to speak, and the knowledge of how to build these structures taken with them!

"So to speak?" You mean "Idiots claim these cultures vanished into thin air!"

Also, explain why the hundreds of temples/structures/buildings are constructed in a way that they recognise/line up with (or used to) mostly the star system Sirius despite the fact that it is assumed most of these cultures never had contact with each other. And/or also recognise and demonstrate the solstice.

Duh.

I'll explain this as soon as you explain how it is that the Sun actually warms BOTH sides of the Earth.

If these structures were of pure human origin built with independently learnt human knowledge why did the knowledge of building such breath taking :w00t: structures appear as suddenly as they disappeared.

Nothing disappeared but records - and they usually didn't exist in the first place. People have been building with stone for tens of thousands of years using various different methods.

The most recent methods are mainly known. How could we possibly know every detail of how one, particular culture decided to accomplish a pile of stone, given the myriad possible ways to stack up stones, without having been there to observe which method was used to accomplish the work?

Every suggested method will work. The problem is only in knowing exactly which one(s) were actually used for any one particular culture.

We, as believers are always giving our explanations that never seem logical or appropriate though consistent with the descendants of some of these cultures.

Your inability to follow a logical argument you now foist on others as if they were at fault.

What explanation would a sceptic give to a believer (or culture) for us (them) to doubt or even question what we/they believe obtained through study, observation, artefacts, ancient writings, personal experience and circumstantial evidence, that like in a reasonable court of law, would be permissible.

Thanks.

Given the painfully obvious fact that you haven't spent a millisecond in "study," as you put it, I believe I will answer this question afterwards, once you spend some time doing this thing people sometimes call "learning."

Don't be surprised when you learn (there's that word again) that you've been lied to by your heroes in the fringe.

Harte

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The problem here is a sceptic is well just that a sceptic.

Its a simple case of saying this is what happened and then someone using either logic or complete lack there of to counter what the evidence points at.

So can they disprove the fact that something MUST have killed these races and cultures? Well they can try but at the end of the day, they not here now so something must have, was it a raging bunch of killer butterflies, who knows (but where the butterflies now, or proof they existed?) but there can be NO doubt at all that something on a global scale happened to this world we call home to cause the destruction and down fall of ancient races, and a sceptic can say what ever they want about it, they can fight and argue till blue in the face and till the cows come home but the simple fact of the matter is THE RACES OF THAT TIME DISAPPEARED without leave much of a trace at all other than a few pillars in Turkey or even later than that time frame (if you believe the Mike Tellinger) South African Adams calendar. So where did they go if they were not destroyed by a global catastrophe?

A coin always has 2 sides to it and as long as people are allowed to formulate an opinion there will be sceptics, but lets be honest here how boring would it be without them??

But great topic and i look forward to reading the replies however far out there they may be...

Have a great day Peter

Do you believe that a global catastrophe can pick and choose who lives and who dies? I ask because if these civilizations that just went poof overnight were destroyed by a global catastrophe, why aren't there records or indications in other areas, including their next door neighbors of that catastrophe. There is also the fact that these civilizations you may be thinking of did not all exist at the same time or go poof at the same time so there would have to be multiple catastrophes. Why no record or indication of these catastrophes? If there were indications please post links to sites that I may read up on them before replying further.

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Not necessarily all cultures just "vanished". They may have declined in population and/or been assimilated to other cultures. For example, the Roman Empire did not "fall". It declined and slowly lost power. And the mysteries of those "vanished" cultures may never be solved, but just because we can't explain it now doesn't mean there's no possible logical answers for it.

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Do you believe that a global catastrophe can pick and choose who lives and who dies? I ask because if these civilizations that just went poof overnight were destroyed by a global catastrophe, why aren't there records or indications in other areas, including their next door neighbors of that catastrophe. There is also the fact that these civilizations you may be thinking of did not all exist at the same time or go poof at the same time so there would have to be multiple catastrophes. Why no record or indication of these catastrophes? If there were indications please post links to sites that I may read up on them before replying further.

Beware: now you will get 'proof' given to us by channellers, like a Cayce, Blavatsky, and who have we.

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Is the op going to respond ?

Ancient civilisations appearing out of nothing , peshhhh , you are not very well versed in history or reading it seems

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The problem here is a sceptic is well just that a sceptic.

Can you define the word sceptic to me ?

Then sk yourself this question . Do I really blindly believe every peace of crappy amateur science that I read . ??

If you do your a fool

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Can you define the word sceptic to me ?

Then ask yourself this question . Do I really blindly believe every peace of crappy amateur science that I read . ??

If you do your a fool

No, he's most probably one of those 'amateur scientists'.

But let's hope he's not one of the many who has lost the ability to read.

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The last great catastrophy? Well the 1918/1919 Spanish flu leaps to mind.

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Do you believe that a global catastrophe can pick and choose who lives and who dies? I ask because if these civilizations that just went poof overnight were destroyed by a global catastrophe, why aren't there records or indications in other areas, including their next door neighbors of that catastrophe. There is also the fact that these civilizations you may be thinking of did not all exist at the same time or go poof at the same time so there would have to be multiple catastrophes. Why no record or indication of these catastrophes? If there were indications please post links to sites that I may read up on them before replying further.

I do not believe a global catastrophe can pick or choose who lives or dies, and you make a great point about time periods and so on.

Im not arguing the fact that some people were around before others as thats just logic, but lets use Southern Africa as an example here, who built the great Zim ruins? where have they gone....

Now taking it further (the science is a bit out there on this but makes the point) Mike Tellinger has in his mind discovered the ruins of a culture and race that using some very odd dating methods dated some of the structures found in Mupumalanger as old as 75 000 years. If this is the case why is there no trace of the people that made those structures? http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/esp_sumer_annunaki35.htm

There is an entire place called Maropeng in S.A that believes that there have been several global catastrophes over millions of years http://www.maropeng.co.za/index.php/maropeng/

Then you look at the more recent Gobeeklitepe http://www.balkantravellers.com/en/read/article/1029 - again who built them and where did they go? did they just up and leave? I cant say with 100% conviction that they were killed off by an ice age or raging bulls BUT something did happen to whipe these people maybe not from the earth but from their homes and buildings...

Thats just a few of many examples of cultures going "poof" without much trace of evidence as to why.

All of those examples of different time zones and locations (save adams calendar and maropeng) and the only point i can make here is something happened maybe several different things but races and cultures vanished without much of a trace......

But with that said I cannot say that the thing that killed them off was a ice age 12 000 years ago, as there is nothing that can substantiate such a claim, but with that said surely its fair to assume SOMETHING must have happened?

How many global extinctions have happened since the dawn of time?????? - is it not fair to assume that they could happen on a smaller scale and yes it could be plague, or lack of food, famine all of those are possible and many many more.

And putting some thought into it maybe a GLOBAL incident is not what happened but you cannot deny that something must have happened.....

But thank you and you made some great points :)

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No, he's most probably one of those 'amateur scientists'.

But let's hope he's not one of the many who has lost the ability to read.

lol - not even a scientist - lol just someone who really enjoys history and pre-history.

Have not lost the ability to read just yet, and as most of us do people take out what they want in what they read, see and believe. This is how some/most of us formulate and opinion. :)

So nope not even an "amateur Scientists" as you tactfully put it, just someone who enjoys a good read.

Have a fantastic day man. :)

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Im not arguing the fact that some people were around before others as thats just logic, but lets use Southern Africa as an example here, who built the great Zim ruins? where have they gone....

This "where have they gone" argument makes no sense. The people who built it died. Their ancestors reside in the roughly the same area. What do you expect, for their ancestors not to have changes at all, socially or culturally since then?

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Im not arguing the fact that some people were around before others as thats just logic, but lets use Southern Africa as an example here, who built the great Zim ruins? where have they gone....

As the lovely and venerable Emma Acid said, they haven't "gone" anywhere.

Regarding these ruins:

Archaeologists have found Stone-Age implements, Khoisan cave paintings, arrowheads, pottery and pebble tools in several areas of Zimbabwe, a suggestion of human habitation for thousands of years, and the ruins of stone buildings provide evidence of more recent civilization. The most impressive of these sites are the Great Zimbabwe ruins, after which the country is named, located near Masvingo. Evidence suggests that these stone structures were built between the 9th and 13th centuries AD by indigenous Africans who had established trading contacts with commercial centers on Africa's southeastern coast.

Source

And:

Great Zimbabwe is a ruined city that was once the capital of the Kingdom of Zimbabwe, which existed from approximately 1100 to 1400 during the country’s Late Iron Age. The monument, which first began to be constructed in the 11th century and which continued to be built until the 14th century, spanned an area of 722 hectares (1,784 acres) and at its peak could have housed up to 18,000 people. Great Zimbabwe acted as a royal palace for the Zimbabwean monarch and would have been used as the seat of their political power. One of its most prominent features were its walls, some of which were over five metres high and which were constructed without mortar. Eventually the city was largely abandoned and fell into ruin.

Source

Now, if you don't care for Wiki, then provide your own references that actually show that there's some "mystery" to this.

Lunatic rants from fringe proponents that ignore the known facts concerning the site are not legitimate references.

Harte

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As the lovely and venerable Emma Acid said, they haven't "gone" anywhere.

Regarding these ruins:

Source

And:

Source

Now, if you don't care for Wiki, then provide your own references that actually show that there's some "mystery" to this.

Lunatic rants from fringe proponents that ignore the known facts concerning the site are not legitimate references.

Harte

Hi there I see your point and understand 100% what you saying and im not disagreeing with you BUT there are several other theories

The civilization of Great Zimbabwe was one of the most significant civilizations in the world during the Medieval period. European travelers from Germany, Portugal, and Britain were astonished to learn of this powerful African civilization in the interior of southern Africa. The first European to visit Great Zimbabwe was a German geologist, Carl Mauch, in 1871. Like others before him, Mauch refused to believe that indigenous Africans could have built such an extensive network of monuments made of granite stone. Thus, Mauch assumed that the Great Zimbabwe monuments were created by biblical characters from the north: “I do not think that I am far wrong if I suppose that the ruin on the hill is a copy of Solomon’s Temple on Mount Moriah and the building in the plain a copy of the palace where the Queen of Sheba lived during her visit to Solomon.” Mauch further stated that a “civilized [read: white] nation must once have lived there.”

Later Europeans also speculated that Great Zimbabwe was built by Portuguese travelers, Arabs, Chinese, or Persians. No consideration was given to the possibility of local indigenous Africans having built the ruins of Great Zimbabwe, because European writers generally agreed that Africans did not have the capacity to build anything of significance, particularly not monuments made with skilled stone masonry.

In 1890, British imperialist and colonizer Cecil Rhodes (1853-1902) conquered a large portion of southern African and had the region named after himself. Northern Rhodesia (modern Zambia) and Southern Rhodesia (modern Zimbabwe) came under British control and Rhodes echoed the theme of Mauch as he argued that the Great Zimbabwe monuments were build by foreigners. To promote his goal of misrepresenting the origins of Zimbabwe, Rhodes established the Ancient Ruins Company and financed men such as James Theodore Bent, who was sent to Zimbabwe by the British Association of Science, and sponsored by Rhodes. After his investigation Bent concluded in his book, Ruined Cities of Mashonaland (1892), that items found within the Great Zimbabwe complex “proved” that the civilization was not build by local Africans.

In 1902, the British continued with their falsification agenda as British archaeologist Richard Hall was hired to investigate the Great Zimbabwe site. Hall asserted in his work, The Ancient Ruins of Rhodesia (1902), that the civilization was built by “more civilized races” than the Africans. He argued that the last phase of Great Zimbabwe was the transitional and “decadent period,” a time when the foreign builders interbred with local Africans. Hall went out of his way to eliminate archeological evidence which would have proven an indigenous African origin of Great Zimbabwe. He removed about two meters deep of archeological remains, which effectively destroyed the evidence that would have established an indigenous African origin of the site. He condescendingly stated that his goal was to “remove the filth and decadence of Kaffir occupation.”

In 1905, soon after Hall’s destructive activity, British archeologist David Randall-MacIver studied the mud dwellings within the stone enclosures, and he became the first European researcher of the site to assert that the dwellings were “unquestionably African in every detail.” After MacIver’s assertion, which was almost equivalent to blasphemy to the British imperialists, archeologists were banned from the Zimbabwe site for almost 25 years!

It was in 1929 that British archeologist Gertrude Caton-Thompson led the first all-female excavation. Caton-Thompson investigated the site and was able to definitively argue in her work, The Zimbabwe Culture: Ruins & Reactions (1931), that the ruins were of African origin. She assessed the available archeological evidence (artifacts, nearby dwellings), and the oral tradition of the modern Shona-speaking people, and compared them to the ancient sites to determine the African foundation of Great Zimbabwe. Despite Caton-Thompson’s conclusive evidence, the myth of a foreign origin of Great Zimbabwe continued for another half a century until Zimbabwe’s independence in 1980

So there are loads of theories and speculation as to the origins of the ruins... also thats just Zim, what about the ruins in South Africa supposedly dating back some 75 000 years google adams calander? if this advanced culture just decided one day to pack up the good way of living and become nomads instead? go from building great structures to roaming the country side instead? Where is the written examples of these cultures from history? I can't believe that they went from being a great nation to a nation of nomads wondering the woods and deserts after building these structures living in mud and straw huts...

So it leaves me and please this is my opinion only, that these people died off or just disappeared, as if they didnt then their history is going backwards from living in building to wandering the wilderness? does that make sense? Im not starting a fight here with anyone at all that is not my intention at all, I want to know how a person writes off the the fact that a culture existed with a race that had the skills to build great buildings and then nothing at all but nomads, with no real written proof (not theories) what, where or who built the ruins and where did those people go? But again this is just my speculation Im not an scientist by any means just applying logic. I may be far off the beat too.

Thanks

Peter

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As you indicated, Whitey went to every possible end in order to not have to admit that the site was erected by Black Africans.

Thus, here is your info on why there exist so many theories. Racism pure and simple.

Harte

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I do not believe a global catastrophe can pick or choose who lives or dies, and you make a great point about time periods and so on.

Im not arguing the fact that some people were around before others as thats just logic, but lets use Southern Africa as an example here, who built the great Zim ruins? where have they gone....

Now taking it further (the science is a bit out there on this but makes the point) Mike Tellinger has in his mind discovered the ruins of a culture and race that using some very odd dating methods dated some of the structures found in Mupumalanger as old as 75 000 years. If this is the case why is there no trace of the people that made those structures? http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/esp_sumer_annunaki35.htm

There is an entire place called Maropeng in S.A that believes that there have been several global catastrophes over millions of years http://www.maropeng.co.za/index.php/maropeng/

Then you look at the more recent Gobeeklitepe http://www.balkantravellers.com/en/read/article/1029 - again who built them and where did they go? did they just up and leave? I cant say with 100% conviction that they were killed off by an ice age or raging bulls BUT something did happen to whipe these people maybe not from the earth but from their homes and buildings...

Thats just a few of many examples of cultures going "poof" without much trace of evidence as to why.

All of those examples of different time zones and locations (save adams calendar and maropeng) and the only point i can make here is something happened maybe several different things but races and cultures vanished without much of a trace......

But with that said I cannot say that the thing that killed them off was a ice age 12 000 years ago, as there is nothing that can substantiate such a claim, but with that said surely its fair to assume SOMETHING must have happened?

How many global extinctions have happened since the dawn of time?????? - is it not fair to assume that they could happen on a smaller scale and yes it could be plague, or lack of food, famine all of those are possible and many many more.

And putting some thought into it maybe a GLOBAL incident is not what happened but you cannot deny that something must have happened.....

But thank you and you made some great points :)

Somewhere Santayana is having a good laugh over all this. Look at all the cultures and empires that we know collapsed within recorded history and why they collapsed. War, famine, economics, etc. It doesn't take much, especially if it's a relatively localized culture. Civilizations require resources to support them. If those resources dry up, sometimes literally, the population loses the ability to sustain them even though the people remain. Look at Great Zimbabwe and the the other. They're located in Savannah country. a slight shift in the climate would screw their agricultural output which limits how many people can live off the land there which in turn limits their available manpower which effects all the rest of their cultural infrastructure. When it gets right down to it, you need people to build anything, an army of them in the case of large cities, and any army travels on it's stomach.

Like the wiki article says, geo-economics can figure into it too. I'll give you a good modern example, State highway systems. When they were originally built, most of the main ones wound of necessity along established routes through various villages. Over time though, new sections were put in to facilitate travel and a lot of these villages were bypassed. Service industries geared toward travelers shifted to these new routes and the towns which have previously prospered from them and come in part to depend on them slowly started to die.

Route 66 is the prime example of this. Now many of the ones that survived this are going downhill because their local industries are all moving to areas where labor is cheaper.

I'm not really buying this "adam's calendar" thing. It's classic confirmation bias. Like with the Great Pyramid and Tiwanaku before them, they're proceeding from the assumption that the structures align with something and then looking for an alignment until they find one. This whole business of sacred geometry ignores the fact that humans have a tendency to view and organize space in a certain way that's based on an innate sense of symmetry. Naturally these patterns crop up repeatedly in human constructions. The Guy Charlesworth referred to in the article is a structural geologist BTW. It sounds like somebody asked him how long it would take rocks to erode naturally so they'd have a nice professional sound bite that appears to back them up.

Despite claims otherwise, the structures do appear to conform to the construction patterns of actual known kraals. Even if they didn't, they aren't too far off from the plan of walled dwellings such as one sees in Cameroon:

http://www.4cornersclub.com/local/image.php?ID=2582&Country=31

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So there are loads of theories and speculation as to the origins of the ruins... also thats just Zim, what about the ruins in South Africa supposedly dating back some 75 000 years google adams calander? if this advanced culture just decided one day to pack up the good way of living and become nomads instead? go from building great structures to roaming the country side instead? Where is the written examples of these cultures from history? I can't believe that they went from being a great nation to a nation of nomads wondering the woods and deserts after building these structures living in mud and straw huts...

So it leaves me and please this is my opinion only, that these people died off or just disappeared, as if they didnt then their history is going backwards from living in building to wandering the wilderness? does that make sense? Im not starting a fight here with anyone at all that is not my intention at all, I want to know how a person writes off the the fact that a culture existed with a race that had the skills to build great buildings and then nothing at all but nomads, with no real written proof (not theories) what, where or who built the ruins and where did those people go? But again this is just my speculation Im not an scientist by any means just applying logic. I may be far off the beat too.

Thanks

Peter

Actually, at the time period we are talking about it is not at all odd for people to be forced into a nomadic lifestyle. Basically, your options were to move or become nomadic. If they became successful nomads, then they would have lost their agricultural traditions. Another problem is you are thinking of one as better than the other, and that is not true. Many people had very successful nomadic lifestyles that put agricultural lifestyles to shame.

Edited by FurthurBB

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I understand your point of view. There is so much evidence towards ancient, mysterious, vanishing, cultures, yet it's ignored! Similar to UFO's. Thousands are spotted each year, and yet, people still don't believe. We live it a world where it's really hard to change people's perspectives.

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I understand your point of view. There is so much evidence towards ancient, mysterious, vanishing, cultures, yet it's ignored! Similar to UFO's.

No, there is no evidence. Actually to the contrary, which is typically conveniently overlooked. Can you point to a single civilization that mysteriously disappeared? It is what those populist shows on TV wants you to believe so they can keep selling airtime, but that is about it.

Thousands are spotted each year, and yet, people still don't believe.

And by far most are misidentifications and hoaxes. Very few are actually truly mysterious, and as we learn more and more about space and our atmosphere, we learn of phenomena perfectly capable of explaining them.

We live it a world where it's really hard to change people's perspectives.

Not if you have evidence and data to support your position. And, no, some random youtube video is not evidence.

You can believe, that is your choice. Most educated people, however, prefer to know. And that is based on verifiable data.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited to add: we know UFOs exists. That is the definition of something unknown flying around. It is the inference to ET that is the issue.

Edited by badeskov

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