The Land of the Free? Not so Much!

[Beckys_Mom]

My last one was Christmas Day with about 40 people and the one before that was in August on my birthday which had about 75 people. We average at least three a year at our house.

75 people at your party? WOW Big party Michelle.hope it was a good one ..... I couldn't wait to get my house back in order after a bunch of rowdy kids were running all over the pace.. I said next time, your party is going to be held at Peter Pans fun room ... No more wrecking my house lol..

I think some people are cut out for it, and some are not.. Gary's folks love big gatherings too.. I tend to avoid them. But not because of not liking it..I have other reasons lol

[zenfahr]

I have...many, many times and so do a lot of the people we know. My last one was Christmas Day with about 40 people and the one before that was in August on my birthday which had about 75 people. We average at least three a year at our house. On average the last person leaves about 4AM and the police have never so much as driven by. The neighbors are always invited and we don't have a problem with any of it.

Having spent most of my life in the restaurant/bar industry I am well aware of what the laws are in my city and county. You can have private parties in residences, you can ask for donations for the band and food even though we don't. What you cannot do is sell liquor by the drink, cause a nuisance and you can be held responsible if anyone leaves drunk and has an accident.

Ok a party once in a while... a christmas party here, a superbowl party there, a wedding.... these things do not happen all the time. If the party is huge, yes you would need an event permit. But then the law may different in your state. As far as taking donations... that is not the same as paying for each drink. Which again you would need a liquior license. Which was my point before.

[Michelle]

75 people at your party? WOW Big party Michelle.hope it was a good one ..... I couldn't wait to get my house back in order after a bunch of rowdy kids were running all over the pace.. I said next time, your party is going to be held at Peter Pans fun room ... No more wrecking my house lol..

I think some people are cut out for it, and some are not.. Gary's folks love big gatherings too.. I tend to avoid them. But not because of not liking it..I have other reasons lol

I love parties. I've been having them since third grade when I would have slumber parties for about thirty girls a couple of times a year.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Michelle

[zenfahr]

but we are talking about a chruch group meeting at the same place twice a week..... very differet from the occasional christmas party. I would be very annoyed if this was happening in my neighborhood. Which lol it actually does every sunday as I live next to the cathloic church. (who by the way has to get an event permit everytime it holds a dance)

[Michelle]

And yes, if you had a huge party with liquor you would indeed have to get a permit, or else you would be raided by the cops.

Ok a party once in a while... a christmas party here, a superbowl party there, a wedding.... these things do not happen all the time. If the party is huge, yes you would need an event permit. But then the law may different in your state. As far as taking donations... that is not the same as paying for each drink. Which again you would need a liquior license. Which was my point before.

The quote above was what I had issue with. If that was the case then every wedding I've ever been to would have been raided. 200 or 300 people and an open bar...sheesh.

[Beckys_Mom]

I love parties. I've been having them since third grade when I would have slumber parties for about thirty girls a couple of times a year.

As Bill and Ted would say - Party on Michelle And Be excellent to each other... Ohh gawd it is sad I remember that line from Bill and Ted

[_Only]

What "rules?" The rule that you can't have a church in your house. Great it's not a church. It's a Bible study. Why not just admit they don't like the idea of a bunch of Christians worshipping next door to them. It's obvious that they found a reason to shut them down.

That's not the rule at all. You're buying into sensationalism, and not paying attention.

[_Only]

It looks like the average non-paved parking lot with a lane in the center and angled parking on each side.

I was just wondering how people would get access to that parking lot.

[Verneph]

I could understand a space issue, what with the parking and all but I have a very difficult time believing that a group of people studying the Bible could be called "disruptive".

Unless of course they're the overzealous types who are screaming Jesus' name to the heavens. That could be disruptive.

[Michelle]

I was just wondering how people would get access to that parking lot.

If you zoom in you can follow the road out of the neighborhood to the upper right. It runs along on the right side of the road where there are no houses. It looks, to me anyway, like someone could bring their horse trailers in and access the trails that are in the back of the neighborhood. The grass is pretty beaten down at the edge of what I'm calling a parking lot leading towards the trails.

[zenfahr]

The quote above was what I had issue with. If that was the case then every wedding I've ever been to would have been raided. 200 or 300 people and an open bar...sheesh.

without looking up the actual event and alchohol laws of your state.... which I dont live in, I can only tell you how it is in my states I have lived in.

If you had an event of 100 or more people with an open bar, in New Mexico you would get raided and shut down. Here we have laws that if you serve alcohol to someone and they go out and kill someone else while drunk the server is liabale as well as the buisness owner and the property owner. In fact, if you have a large event in which you are serving drinks only a licenced server legally alowed to do it. In the case of having a huge party in a residencial neighborhood in which you will have alcohol and music you have to have an event permit. You may have been to parties in which this was not the case. either they did it against the law or there is no law covering such cases... again I dont know the laws in your state. If you held your open bar wedding in an venue that holds such parties, then you would not need an event permit to do so, the building would already have liabiliy insurance and therefore you would already be covered.

[Michelle]

without looking up the actual event and alchohol laws of your state.... which I dont live in, I can only tell you how it is in my states I have lived in.

If you had an event of 100 or more people with an open bar, in New Mexico you would get raided and shut down. Here we have laws that if you serve alcohol to someone and they go out and kill someone else while drunk the server is liabale as well as the buisness owner and the property owner. In fact, if you have a large event in which you are serving drinks only a licenced server legally alowed to do it. In the case of having a huge party in a residencial neighborhood in which you will have alcohol and music you have to have an event permit. You may have been to parties in which this was not the case. either they did it against the law or there is no law covering such cases... again I dont know the laws in your state. If you held your open bar wedding in an venue that holds such parties, then you would not need an event permit to do so, the building would already have liabiliy insurance and therefore you would already be covered.

Any permits obtained would have to be on display for all to see and so far I've seen none. The more affluent always do hire bartenders, caterers and servers...some have even had security (off duty police officers) and parking attendants/valet parking. If it is against the law I've never seen it enforced...in the poorest or richest of neighborhoods. I've been fortunate to be able to attend all kinds...from places that had to rent port o potties to one place that had an olympic sized indoor pool with streams running throughout the house. You could swim under the walls the entire first floor which was huge!

Good times!!!

[Cassea]

why is this a discussion. Doesn't Michelle live in the state in question? What happens in New Mexico has nothing to do with it.

[+HerNibs]

This article has a statement from the City Attorney.

“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.

Nibs

[Michelle]

why is this a discussion. Doesn't Michelle live in the state in question? What happens in New Mexico has nothing to do with it.

No, I don't...that is in California. We got off on a tangent about how the laws differ from state to state and county to county. They vary greatly even according to the individual neighborhoods.

[Beckys_Mom]

This article has a statement from the City Attorney.

“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.

Nibs

Nice find Nibs. The same article also states....

That type of meeting would require a conditional use permit as defined by the city, according to Pacific Justice Institute (PJI), the couple’s legal representation.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Cassea]

I quoted that earlier. It also says this

An Orange County couple has been ordered to stop holding a Bible study in their home on the grounds that the meeting violates a city ordinance as a “church” and not as a private gathering.

Obviously they need a reason to justify it, so they used the parking. But how does it impact "parking" when they have a huge parking lot behind their house?

It's also a pretty isolated street. So what issues are really being raised with "traffic" on a Sunday? Come on.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Cassea

[+HerNibs]

Nice find Nibs...

thanks!

And if anyone wishes to look through the Municode for San Juan Capistrano and point out where it's against the law for three or more people to gather...

Here is the code.

I'm looking and haven't found it yet.

Nibs

[+HerNibs]

I quoted that earlier. It also says this

Obviously they need a reason to justify it, so they used the parking. But how does it impact "parking" when they have a huge parking lot behind their house?

It's also a pretty isolated street. So what issues are really being raised with "traffic" on a Sunday? Come on.

If a person complained it must be an issue.

So are you stating that the city/county is doing this only because it is a Christian gathering and not because the city/county is desperate for money?

Nibs

[Cassea]

If a person complained it must be an issue? Nonsense. If a person complains about the black family next door bringing in their homeboys from the city. Their motivation is racism. They might turn it to "the music is too loud" "the parking spots" etc. None of the issues they say matter really are issues. I'd have more respect if they said. "I paid to have a home far away from people. I don't like seeing so many people so close" But honestly, the complainer has a right to move. They don't have a right to control company coming to visit at someone's home.

[Beckys_Mom]

If a person complained it must be an issue.

Absolutely... And if a complaint is made and it is checked out and seen for real, as law breaking, then the issue gets bigger.. And look it sure did

What makes it worse is people who do not pay attention and cannot look at it from both angles... I have read some silly biased statements mentioned on the news articles posted on line about this same story that whine over how it is so unfair, they are just singled out because they are Christian..I think any intelligent person can see that it is not about singling anyone out..

.If that is the real case .. then every law breaker can use the same chant, and say- I was only arrested because I was causally flogging hooky Jeans that accidentally fell off a back of a truck. I was doing a good deed thinking people could use these jeans.... I am singled out because I am a white half French and half Irish man how rude lol ...It never washes with a good judge though... Thank goodness

Edited February 21, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[+HerNibs]

If a person complained it must be an issue? Nonsense. If a person complains about the black family next door bringing in their homeboys from the city. Their motivation is racism. They might turn it to "the music is too loud" "the parking spots" etc. None of the issues they say matter really are issues. I'd have more respect if they said. "I paid to have a home far away from people. I don't like seeing so many people so close" But honestly, the complainer has a right to move. They don't have a right to control company coming to visit at someone's home.

Really?

So the neighbor who complained about our JW neighbor and the increase in traffic did so because they were racist or anti-Christian?

The complainer isn't violating any ordinances.

Nibs

[+HerNibs]

Absolutely... And if a complaint is made and it is checked out and seen for real, as law breaking, then the issue gets bigger.. And look it sure did

What makes it worse is people who do not pay attention and cannot look at it from both angles... I have read some silly biased statements on the news articles posted on line about this same story that whine over how it is so unfair, they are just singled out because they are Christian..I think any intelligent person can see that it is not about singling anyone out.. .If that is the real case .. then every law breaker can use the same chant ...It never washes with a good judge though... Thank goodness

Nibs

[Beckys_Mom]

Really?

So the neighbor who complained about our JW neighbor and the increase in traffic did so because they were racist or anti-Christian?

Yup lol only joking.. Of course not...

Edited February 21, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Cassea]

Really?

So the neighbor who complained about our JW neighbor and the increase in traffic did so because they were racist or anti-Christian?

The complainer isn't violating any ordinances.

Nibs

What does your situation have to do with this one? Entirely different home. Entirely different state. Your situation applies to yours. It may well have affected the traffic in your state.

But as I asked, please explain, if in this case it is true, how is "parking" being effected. That's in the quote you pasted. They have a huge parking spot behind their house. So how is parking an issue?