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Jor-el

The Land of the Free? Not so Much!

340 posts in this topic

sorry I did not read all the comments.... but Im guessing just by the photographs, that they are holding church services there weekly with between thrity to fifty people in attendance....

If I was thier neighbor I would have called in a report. Not that im against religious services, but I would not want all those cars and people in my hood every weekend. I can see that happening if it was a bbq or a party, or even the occasional bible study. No I dont think they are being singled out because of religious concerns, but rather zoning concerns.

Last time I held a large gathering in my home for a large group, was for a bunch of kids.. In total there was 14 kids running around my home... We have a large back garden and thought it would be a good idea to hire out a bouncy castle and hold the party at home for once... I have a conservatory leading out of my dinning room so I thought yea plenty of room for a party ...

Anyhoo.. I have lovely neighbors..and I live along a main road, all detached houses in a row along the road side ... and the road has traffic lights at the top.so obviously we have passing traffic all the time coming and going.. So I knew there will be cars in and out of my house dropping off kids and picking them up.. .I also knew that because I had so many kids at the house and outside in my garden all playing.. There will be noise ..So I respect my neighbos, a few days before hand, we informed the neighbors close to us of the party and they were so nice to us about it... they said it was OK and hoped it was a good day for the kids.. They thanked us for being considerate ... this made us feel better... I didn't want to annoy anyone around me ...

A lot of cars came and went... Once it was over...We dropped some cake over to the neighbors near us to say thanks for putting up with a bunch of noisy kids playing in our yard and so on ... A bit of consideration goes a long way it seems

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I was going to mention that as well. It's not as if this was a tiny house in a poor crowded neighborhood. There's no reason the neighbor's should have even heard anything.

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And yes, if you had a huge party with liquor you would indeed have to get a permit, or else you would be raided by the cops.

Are you kidding? I know lots of people that have parties with 100 to 200 people on a regular basis. The private club we belong to has large parties about twice a month where different members cater, get kegs and charge a small admission. There is no law such in Tennessee which requires them to get a permit or I'm sure the judge who is a member would have informed us.

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And yes, if you had a huge party with liquor you would indeed have to get a permit, or else you would be raided by the cops. Also if you have a large group and you are serving alcohol, you would not be able to charge anyone, unless you had a liquior licence or an event permit.

I think this is true.

Anyway... It doesn't matter what size the home is, the area they have... Fact is they still broke a law..... And it is really stupid to ever suggest they were singled out because of their faith.. The law applies to everyone..

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Not true. The law they used applies to churches specifically. They are not a church. They were targeted for being Christian.

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Are you kidding? I know lots of people that have parties with 100 to 200 people on a regular basis. The private club we belong to has large parties about twice a month where different members cater, get kegs and charge a small admission. There is no law such in Tennessee which requires them to get a permit or I'm sure the judge who is a member would have informed us.

Did you just say a private club? I bet it is zoned to accommidate many people and their right to throw parties. Also as it is a private club, people pay membership fees to it. Meaning that those who are members will be allowed to use this venue as they see fit, perhaps without having to get a permit to do so. If there is truly no law against this kind event, try to have one in another venue like your house and see what happens.

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Not true. The law they used applies to churches specifically. They are not a church. They were targeted for being Christian.

more like they were targeted by their annoyed neighbors. In my youth I was in a rock band, the police shut us down many times, not for noise or drinking but for lack of parking and excessive traffic through a private neighborhood.

I would like to say they targeted us for being head bangers but I really doubt it.

Before you make this claim, you need to back though the police records of the county and see if they had to shut anyone else down, then compare your data.

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I think this is true.

Anyway... It doesn't matter what size the home is, the area they have... Fact is they still broke a law..... And it is really stupid to ever suggest they were singled out because of their faith.. The law applies to everyone..

Thanks BM!!! glad to know Im not completely crazy with my ideas!!

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Wow, they turned their backyard into a parking lot. They don't mess around.

edit - Nevermind, that doesn't seem like much of a parking lot. Not sure what it is exactly, but it would be a horribly set up parking lot.

Edited by Jerry Only

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San Juan Capistrano authorities claim home Bible study is not allowed because it is a “church,” and churches require a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) in residential areas.

Some good points

Specifically, this infringes on the First Amendment Freedom to Worship, The First Amendment Freedom To Assemble. The action of the government also violates the reasonable expectation of privacy. Furthermore, I can not see how there is not a violation of 4th amendment protection against illegal search and seizure, as the government had no grounds for probable cause to issue the summons in the first place.

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/09/22/ordinance-making-meetings-home-illegal-shut-bible-study-69211/

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Are you kidding? I know lots of people that have parties with 100 to 200 people on a regular basis. The private club we belong to has large parties about twice a month where different members cater, get kegs and charge a small admission. There is no law such in Tennessee which requires them to get a permit or I'm sure the judge who is a member would have informed us.

Well, speaking as a Californian, parties I've been at/held of that size and type, you can be certain that a squad car or 2 will be right nearby soon enough, just waiting.

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Just as a bit of information -

We have a neighbor that is a JW. She had meetings at her house on a weekly basis. I cannot say for sure what type of meeting but I'm assuming they weren't formal church services. She was notified by our Home Owners Association that this wasn't allowed as it disrupted the neighborhood. (We live in a cul-de-sac)

Parking wasn't the issue as there is ample parking on the street available. The issue came to excessive traffic and noise.

Failure to follow the HOA's rules would result in fines.

She discontinued the meetings.

IMO - there are rules and laws. You don't like them? Move or work to change the laws.

I don't believe they were being targeted for their religion, no more than our neighbor was.

Nibs

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Do the superbowl parties also get the same restrictions?

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sorry I did not read all the comments.... but Im guessing just by the photographs, that they are holding church services there weekly with between thrity to fifty people in attendance....

Well to be a bit more accurate, they are a Church,/ congregation but not holding services rather bible meetings like so many churches do.. So yes they are a Church...A home made one, still a church..Pity they just couldn't do what other churches do and abide the law..

I never used to think that a Church could mean a body of people, until a Christian on here explained that it also means a body of people in a gathering

I guess it does ... But see it doesn't matter if they are a church or not.. fact is they could have been a gathering of pagans or Muslims... or anything else you like to insert... So singled out is an absurd reaction to attach... I notice so many like to play that card if pulled about breaking a law which makes no sense, not if all the other religious can attend bible meetings and not a word said.. ...Oh yes that is because the rest of the Christians are abiding the law, you'd think they would actually notice that by now lol

There was an article posted on here a while ago about a Muslim woman breaking a law and said she was singled out for being Muslim... it never ends lol

We all should do that, if someone accuses of of anything, just say - I am singled out because of the following....White, black, English Irish, Welsh, Christian, Jewish, Big, small, female, male, atheist, American, gay, straight you name it list it.. and complain like crazy...laugh.gif

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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A bible study and a church are two entirely different things. How is there confusion about this?

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A bible study and a church are two entirely different things. How is there confusion about this?

My point was that it was a disruption in the neighborhood. Much less than any type of church service would be.

Bible study, karaoke meetings, girlscouts, knights in white satin, whatever. The point was the disruption and the violation of the rules.

No confusion at all.

Nibs

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My point was that it was a disruption in the neighborhood. Much less than any type of church service would be.

Bible study, karaoke meetings, girlscouts, knights in white satin, whatever. The point was the disruption and the violation of the rules.

No confusion at all.

Nibs

What "rules?" The rule that you can't have a church in your house. Great it's not a church. It's a Bible study. Why not just admit they don't like the idea of a bunch of Christians worshipping next door to them. It's obvious that they found a reason to shut them down.

Edited by Cassea

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Well, speaking as a Californian, parties I've been at/held of that size and type, you can be certain that a squad car or 2 will be right nearby soon enough, just waiting.

I would not doubt it, I have seen it happen over here too... I personally have nothing against the odd party, as long as they don't keep me up all night lol... I think it depends on what goes on at the party or function a person holds... Noise is usually the biggest complaint...

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What "rules?" The rule that you can't have a church in your house. Great it's not a church. It's a Bible study. Why not just admit they don't like the idea of a bunch of Christians worshipping next door to them. It's obvious that they found a reason to shut them down.

Not so obvious to me and apparently others.

Rules or zoning laws or city laws or state laws or whatever they were cited with for violation.

Do I think the +3 law is wrong? Yup, too vague and broad. Would I be annoyed if they were my neighbors? Yup. For the reasons I mentioned.

Can you find this story referenced anyplace other than a biased website? I'd be interested in more of the story.

Nibs

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Did you just say a private club? I bet it is zoned to accommidate many people and their right to throw parties. Also as it is a private club, people pay membership fees to it. Meaning that those who are members will be allowed to use this venue as they see fit, perhaps without having to get a permit to do so. If there is truly no law against this kind event, try to have one in another venue like your house and see what happens.

I have...many, many times and so do a lot of the people we know. My last one was Christmas Day with about 40 people and the one before that was in August on my birthday which had about 75 people. We average at least three a year at our house. On average the last person leaves about 4AM and the police have never so much as driven by. The neighbors are always invited and we don't have a problem with any of it.

Having spent most of my life in the restaurant/bar industry I am well aware of what the laws are in my city and county. You can have private parties in residences, you can ask for donations for the band and food even though we don't. What you cannot do is sell liquor by the drink, cause a nuisance and you can be held responsible if anyone leaves drunk and has an accident.

Edited by Michelle

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Wow, they turned their backyard into a parking lot. They don't mess around.

edit - Nevermind, that doesn't seem like much of a parking lot. Not sure what it is exactly, but it would be a horribly set up parking lot.

It looks like the average non-paved parking lot with a lane in the center and angled parking on each side.

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This is true Michelle. I know several people who have huge Christmas parties every year. No permits are ever needed. They are traditional in our area.

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This is true Michelle. I know several people who have huge Christmas parties every year. No permits are ever needed. They are traditional in our area.

Christmas is only once a year, nobody says anything about that. That was a very bad example.

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Did you just say a private club? I bet it is zoned to accommidate many people and their right to throw parties. Also as it is a private club, people pay membership fees to it. Meaning that those who are members will be allowed to use this venue as they see fit, perhaps without having to get a permit to do so. If there is truly no law against this kind event, try to have one in another venue like your house and see what happens.

Christmas is only once a year, nobody says anything about that. That was a very bad example.

Parties in general were brought up so it is valid.

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