Qur'an burning riots in Afghanistan

[+and-then]

I'm watching Mosaic News from the Middle East and there's this crowd of Afghans hurling stones, burning things and screaming death to America. An American general has repeatedly apologized for what was an error but the Afghans say NO! No apology will suffice. These people have known nothing but war for centuries. I say leave them to their madness and use the intelligence from the region to target future threats. IT'S A BOOK! Paper and ink. And it's almost guaranteed that some will lose their lives before this protest is over.

I hope that Obama keeps his word and removes our people from this hell hole by 2014. But once we're gone I also hope that we obliterate utterly any new threat that even seems to be building in this pit of evil. To hell with world opinion.

[The Silver Thong]

I'm watching Mosaic News from the Middle East and there's this crowd of Afghans hurling stones, burning things and screaming death to America. An American general has repeatedly apologized for what was an error but the Afghans say NO! No apology will suffice. These people have known nothing but war for centuries. I say leave them to their madness and use the intelligence from the region to target future threats. IT'S A BOOK! Paper and ink. And it's almost guaranteed that some will lose their lives before this protest is over.

I hope that Obama keeps his word and removes our people from this hell hole by 2014. But once we're gone I also hope that we obliterate utterly any new threat that even seems to be building in this pit of evil. To hell with world opinion.

Such a shame that it was the U.S. that trained them during the Afgan Soviet war. That madness you speak of is of a radical outlook to radicals bleeping with them. The cia trained and gave them the ability to fight the soviets. Now we pay the price. *snip* look at the cause and effect.

There holy book is just a book, burning one is is not the issue.

Edited February 23, 2012 by libstaK
flamebaiting-personal attack

[+and-then]

Such a shame that it was the U.S. that trained them during the Afgan Soviet war. That madness you speak of is of a radical outlook to radicals bleeping with them. The cia trained and gave them the ability to fight the soviets. Now we pay the price. Before you b**** and whine like a baby look at the cause and effect.

There holy book is just a book, burning one is is not the issue.

It certainly seems to be THE issue with them. In fact you sound condescending *snip* for not recognizing what the post was about. Using it to *snip* about your bias against America is not acceptable. Go flame some other thread.

Edited February 23, 2012 by libstaK
Personal Insult

[ROGER]

If any one is interested: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/02/afghan_quran_burning_protests_what_s_the_right_way_to_dispose_of_a_quran_.html

[ExpandMyMind]

No one should burn any book, never mind a religion's holy one. I might not agree with organised religion but I do believe in someone else's right to believe in it. And burning the Qu'ran is like burning a Muslims soul. They view that (quite foolishly) with a higher regard than anything else on the earth, practically. I mean, you're not even allowed to touch one until you've cleaned you hands. Despicable to be perfectly honest.

All this situation (no doubt given ample airtime) does is promote the falsehood that this is in any way a war against Muslims. There is another thread about the increase in Christian deaths at the hands of Muslims. With situations lik in the OP (not to mention occupying armies) is anyone surprised there is a backlash?

Edited February 23, 2012 by ExpandMyMind

[wittyusernamefailed]

Is there any indication that these were burned in a hateful manner ala Westboro? Or was it just a stupid mistake, by a private that really didn't want to be doing garbage duty and seriously wants home. But regardless it is a fair matter of fact that the general response of the Islam populace in that area to any such slight is to riot, burn buildings, and stuff, and more oft than not kill unbelievers. I know that historically Islam was the sane religion during the Inquisition and such(offering sanctuary to jews, anabaptist, and other non catholics) but they seem to have lost all that in the modern days and become solely signified by hate. I mean everyone can think of hundreds of Christian initiatives that aid people, but any Islamic organization seems to be either trying to kill someone, agreeing to it, or more or less saying "well it's really someone else's fault that we stoned such and such person to death". It's just rather sad how it's happened like that.

[Flibbertigibbet]

I reserve the right to burn any book that I own, for whatever reason. For example, if I think a particular book represents the psychotic rantings of a madman, then I should be allowed to burn it in public to make a statement to his modern day followers that I find their beliefs repulsive.

[libstaK]

Silver Thong, and then - settle down and get back on topic

This is a volatile topic matter for some members, if you cannot debate it in a civil manner the thread will be closed.

[+and-then]

Silver Thong, and then - settle down and get back on topic

This is a volatile topic matter for some members, if you cannot debate it in a civil manner the thread will be closed.

For my part I never intended nor did I bait a confrontation. But I will refrain from answering in kind in future. Thanks

[+and-then]

Is there any indication that these were burned in a hateful manner ala Westboro? Or was it just a stupid mistake, by a private that really didn't want to be doing garbage duty and seriously wants home. But regardless it is a fair matter of fact that the general response of the Islam populace in that area to any such slight is to riot, burn buildings, and stuff, and more oft than not kill unbelievers. I know that historically Islam was the sane religion during the Inquisition and such(offering sanctuary to jews, anabaptist, and other non catholics) but they seem to have lost all that in the modern days and become solely signified by hate. I mean everyone can think of hundreds of Christian initiatives that aid people, but any Islamic organization seems to be either trying to kill someone, agreeing to it, or more or less saying "well it's really someone else's fault that we stoned such and such person to death". It's just rather sad how it's happened like that.

The partially burned books were found by Afghans who were either scavenging or removing trash. I fully understand their anger. If I thought someone was intentionally burning bibles as an act of protest or incitement I'd be furious as well as just plain sad. But the comparison ends there. These people (Muslims) as a group seem to live to be offended. It's like they feel that they are chosen by God and they have no rules or boundaries other than those few they impose on themselves. The attitude is dangerous and destructive in the modern world. I'm sure that individual instances can be provided of small groups of other faiths behaving similarly. Jewish Haredi and some militant Christian "evangelicals" but not nearly to the extent that Muslims as a whole demand a different standard. America should leave Afghanistan to the Afghans. It is their country and if they want to live in constant strife with illiteracy, poverty and violence then so be it. But if they begin building training bases for anyone intent on harming the West I would gladly see our air forces turn the offending camps to rubble. It's not exactly like the UN has any legitimacy to speak out on such behavior any longer.

[Corp]

From what I understand you are allowed to burn copies of the Qur'an but only after certain steps have been taken. The prefered method of getting rid of old copies is to throw them in a river or something. I also believe worn out Bibles are also burned.

In all this does seem to be a honest mistake, though someone was very stupid for not keeping a closer eye on this. At the same time though rioting is a big overreaction imo. Protest, sure, but riot? Though I wouldn't be surprised if the crowd had only been told part of story by their local leaders in order to get them to react this way.

[Big Jim]

I read somewhere that these particular books were used by prisoners and it was believed by US forces that they may therefore contain coded messages. This was why they were burned. Respecting someone's religion and the right to practice it does not mean we have to follow their beliefs and do as they would do. If these books were indeed used by prisoners then I'm sure that they remained the property of the US. That means they were ours to dispose of as we saw fit. It's time that countries mired in the tenth century realized that to be considered equals in modern society it is they who must adapt, not us.

[+and-then]

I read somewhere that these particular books were used by prisoners and it was believed by US forces that they may therefore contain coded messages. This was why they were burned. Respecting someone's religion and the right to practice it does not mean we have to follow their beliefs and do as they would do. If these books were indeed used by prisoners then I'm sure that they remained the property of the US. That means they were ours to dispose of as we saw fit. It's time that countries mired in the tenth century realized that to be considered equals in modern society it is they who must adapt, not us.

Agreed. It was sickening to see a General Officer of the US practically begging apologies over this situation. And if the Commander in Chief has not yet bent the knee I'm sure he will at some point. These people understand and respect strength. The idiot in the WH hasn't quite gotten that figured out yet.

[Raptor Witness]

[Corp]

Afghanistan is demanding those that burned the books be put on trial. Yeah can see this getting uglier.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Agreed. It was sickening to see a General Officer of the US practically begging apologies over this situation. And if the Commander in Chief has not yet bent the knee I'm sure he will at some point. These people understand and respect strength. The idiot in the WH hasn't quite gotten that figured out yet.

The US just don't get it do they when it comes to the Middle East,I'm sure if i strolled in to the American bible belt and started burning bibles i would be arrested for religious intolerance or maybe burnt at the stake.The fact is when you walk into some one else's country then you should respect their beliefs.

Muslims are still human beings and you can't tar them all with the same brush.And Then your attitude is totally beyond belief and you should think about it next time your polishing your Swastika..

[wittyusernamefailed]

Shadow, I will assume you are residing somewhere in Europe, and thus gather your knowledge of Americans from Jersey shore, bad country music videos, and coverage of Westboro "church" ( and i use the term in the most general sense). But America is a melting pot of cultures and is 99% accommodating of other religions, cultures and peoples. Despite what Fox news would have you believe we phased the "riot and kill someone because they don;t believe our religion" out quite some time ago. We as a whole try to steer the farthest possible from even profiling due to religion, or race. The avg American wants very hard to believe what imams in U.S. mosques when they say that Islam is a religion of peace.

But when I can't look at any news source without hearing how someone was killed, tortured, or raped by a large riot crowd of Muslims because they either were not Muslim, somehow disagreed with Islam, or in some way shape or form broke some minor Shari law.These actions are not being taken for political, sociological , or justice reasons; but simply because their the people believe that the Koran said it was alright, and they seem to be the majority in the world context. It becomes very very hard to logically accept the "Islam is peace" stance.

I understand that the people in this part of the world have had many many issues to deal with. But that gives them no more right to embrace a religion of hate, nor any justification when they harm others due to it.

And before someone starts frothing at the mouth, Yes i understand that Christianity had serious issues during the Middle ages when the Catholic church became a political power. And the religion was bastardized by evil popes wanting only power, and having no desire at all to live according to the teachings of there own faith. Christianity largely grew out of that stupid stage. Maybe Islam will in time, but judging from world events that day seems far off.

Edited February 23, 2012 by wittyusernamefailed

[wittyusernamefailed]

And because this is getting too heavy here is some schnappi.

Edited February 23, 2012 by wittyusernamefailed

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Shadow, I will assume you are residing somewhere in Europe, and thus gather your knowledge of Americans from Jersey shore, bad country music videos, and coverage of Westboro "church" ( and i use the term in the most general sense). But America is a melting pot of cultures and is 99% accommodating of other religions, cultures and peoples. Despite what Fox news would have you believe we phased the "riot and kill someone because they don;t believe our religion" out quite some time ago. We as a whole try to steer the farthest possible from even profiling due to religion, or race. The avg American wants very hard to believe what imams in U.S. mosques when they say that Islam is a religion of peace.

But when I can't look at any news source without hearing how someone was killed, tortured, or raped by a large riot crowd of Muslims because they either were not Muslim, somehow disagreed with Islam, or in some way shape or form broke some minor Shari law.These actions are not being taken for political, sociological , or justice reasons; but simply because their the people believe that the Koran said it was alright, and they seem to be the majority in the world context. It becomes very very hard to logically accept the "Islam is peace" stance.

I understand that the people in this part of the world have had many many issues to deal with. But that gives them no more right to embrace a religion of hate, nor any justification when they harm others due to it.

And before someone starts frothing at the mouth, Yes i understand that Christianity had serious issues during the Middle ages when the Catholic church became a political power. And the religion was bastardized by evil popes wanting only power, and having no desire at all to live according to the teachings of there own faith. Christianity largely grew out of that stupid stage. Maybe Islam will in time, but judging from world events that day seems far off.

I live in Canada,and my remarks were off the cuff and not mean't to offend but at the end of the day a man's religious views are his own regardless and should be respected.

[Mr Right Wing]

The US just don't get it do they when it comes to the Middle East,I'm sure if i strolled in to the American bible belt and started burning bibles i would be arrested for religious intolerance or maybe burnt at the stake.The fact is when you walk into some one else's country then you should respect their beliefs.

Muslims are still human beings and you can't tar them all with the same brush.And Then your attitude is totally beyond belief and you should think about it next time your polishing your Swastika..

Burning the Quran is a great sin for Muslim peoples.

They will want the private that did it executed which is going to cause problems. You'd think US soliders would receive basic training in the culture and customs of those nations it occupies.

Nothing that can be said or done will make the Afgans settle for anything less than a public hanging.

[wittyusernamefailed]

And what, the world is "ok" with that sort of irrationality? They can riot, kill.. w/e due to some slight that was an accident. but they kill, rape,or torture believers of other religions and "it's just how it is in that part of the world." This sort of socio-religious hatred is no less wrong then Hitlers Germany. No, it's not a good case for invasion ( as some seem to suggest),but goodness sake; it needs to change someway, somehow.

[Flibbertigibbet]

But they still riot and kill people when Westerners burn Korans in the West, which should be none of their business.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

And what, the world is "ok" with that sort of irrationality? They can riot, kill.. w/e due to some slight that was an accident. but they kill, rape,or torture believers of other religions and "it's just how it is in that part of the world." This sort of socio-religious hatred is no less wrong then Hitlers Germany. No, it's not a good case for invasion ( as some seem to suggest),but goodness sake; it needs to change someway, somehow.

Most hard line Muslim countries practice Sharia law and as a result we in the west find it hard at times to stomach some of their practices.An example is the guy in Iran who converted from Islam to become a Christian preacher and is now about to be Executed.To me that is unbelievable and tragic but you have to ask your self wether he should have left Iran before he converted?

Their mindset and Rationale is a world apart from ours and thats the way it is,wether you are ok with that or not.

[wittyusernamefailed]

Shadow. I understand the realities of realpolitik; but it is such a mindset that allows such atrocities as the inquisition, the Holocaust, Darfur... to happen. It matters not whither it's Christian, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, or the god damn Flying Spaghetti monster. If a form of a religion condones violence simply due to differences, than that belief system has no right to exist in that form. And it becomes the moral duty of the world to bring pressure to bear until such belief system has changed. We no longer live in the Dark Ages where such evil is just shrugged off.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Shadow. I understand the realities of realpolitik; but it is such a mindset that allows such atrocities as the inquisition, the Holocaust, Darfur... to happen. It matters not whither it's Christian, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, or the god damn Flying Spaghetti monster. If a form of a religion condones violence simply due to differences, than that belief system has no right to exist in that form. And it becomes the moral duty of the world to bring pressure to bear until such belief system has changed. We no longer live in the Dark Ages where such evil is just shrugged off.

I realise that but change will only come from within,which in Iran would be most unlikely at this time.