Children at risk from 'witch finders'

[Paracelse]

Thanks, I'll check it out after this, and good post

I've heard a lot about the same kind of things happening before. It is just not excuseable.

What I tried to ask though was not so much "Why do 'Christians/Catholic' people think that being a 'witch' is evil?" but "Why do people even today think that being a 'witch' is 'evil' without any religious beliefs?".

Like for example, I could tell someone "I'm a wiccan" (though I'm not) and even if they are not religious they will still think "Oh, you are a witch?" and automatically think that you are evil or a bad person. Apart from the obvious thought that being a "wtch" is weird. In reality being a witch is just practicing religion.

I mean sure I know, or have my own ideas of why, but let's see what your ideas are.

It helps to tell people you're pagan sometimes ... when I moved to France 3 years ago I had three attempted break ins to my house. Now the entire town knows I'm sort of pagan (which in their small mind see it as being a witch) no one did anything and people leave me alone. I can leave my car open and no one will touch it. :D :devil: :devil: :innocent:

PS: I told also some jehowah's witness who came to my door that my God has a h--mmer whereas their had n--ils

[Lilly]

Wait a minute here, just because you (Paracelse) let these townfolk know you are Pagan they will no longer steal (a sin BTW) from you? Wow, that's really something.

[G3N0M3]

LOL! @Paracelse - People already think I'm odd enough knowing what I know - me telling someone what I believe in would not "paint a picture" so much like 'wiccan' or 'pegan'.

I believe in science 'almost' exclusively, my experiences have determined (to me) that 'spirituality' is a function of nature such as how electronic devices emit 'EM' fields, our body/mind structure creates the same type of 'field' which is thought of or 'personafied' to be a 'soul' something seperate. Also understanding the laws of physics and energy you can easily understand that in physics, a 'soul' is effected by those same laws.

Again (to me) religion has made people afraid of 'entities' so that people will always look to the church or "God" to 'help' them (even if it might not be 'bad'), basically they have created a system of dependance on the church to make people "unwilling" to understand and experience spirituality (sometimes even unable because of their perceptions/understandings), or what should (I think) be called ADT - Astral Dynamics Theory.

Personally this is my goal, I would like to have the world percieve your "soul", "spirit", etc. as a function of science, (to me) it is a mixture of "Natural Alchemy" which means 'less-but-more' than normal "Alchemy". Instead of the 'magical properties' that is normally understood as alchemy, "Natural Alchemy" instead is basically the sum of knowledge that we know of as biology and how it reacts with the environment. We now know that everything around us, from the sun to the soil on the planet effects our DNA, our personality, our physiology, etc. etc. This is all already understood and is still being learned about and researched now. Perhaps in the future we will learn more about "Natural Alchemy" to be able to accomplish the fabled, or misconcieved Alchemy.

I mentioned all of that because that is my theory of how we can help the whole entire religious subject. I don't think it will abolish religion, on the contrary, there will be people who will worship specific "Entity Races" meanwhile, again that would be reserved for "weaker people" those who do not have the confidence in themselves and humanity that they should. Understanding this will also help us being able to deal with understanding "posessions", from my knowledge a possession is actually "willed" by the person to actually happen. This being many factors, which is why we need to understand "Natural Alchemy", these include but are not limited to environmental factors (society, family, religion, etc.), physiological factors (chemical imbalances, diet, wounds/afflictions) and mental factors which for example could be a willingness to have "something take them over" because they feel "weak" and need other "power" to accomplish that. Also if the person is stressed and depressed they could create the same conclusion. Also for other "non-physical" mental conditions (which in short means something otherwise undetermined).

To end this one for today I'll put out one thing that WILL blow anyones mind, religous or scientific, it is "proven" already...

"God" - God is determined to be a "force" in this universe which "is a part of everything" it effects everything, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_center

Simple and too the point... if you read this or know about it already... THAT is OUR "God"

It is real, it is physical, it effects EVERYTHING IN THE GALAXY, it moves all the suns, planets, etc.

......

DEEP I know, I hope this outlook will get some good replies.

[Eldorado]

Never underestimate your fellow humans propensity to falsity, cruelty and violence.

[TheSpoonyOne]

'Mindkind is still in the dark ages'

Yeah...Britain hasn't had 'Witch finders' for centuries, it's only happening with certain African immigrants who, for some strange reason, still believe in this nonsense in the 21st century, so don't bundle 'mankind' into this practice just because some Africans still believe in make belief rubbish, it would be laughable if if wasn't for people being tortured.

[Mr Walker]

'Mindkind is still in the dark ages'

Yeah...Britain hasn't had 'Witch finders' for centuries, it's only happening with certain African immigrants who, for some strange reason, still believe in this nonsense in the 21st century, so don't bundle 'mankind' into this practice just because some Africans still believe in make belief rubbish, it would be laughable if if wasn't for people being tortured.

Dont entirely blame "primitive africans." Modern western culture has a fascination with all forms of the occul,t and many western children are brought up on a diet of movies and TV series about witches, demons and possession etc. My yr 8 class (about 13 year old on average) has a present fascination with ouija boards and contacting spirits, which are of course banned in schools (both the boards and any form of spirits) I keep finding them making up boards, and trying to use them.

[Meiliken]

Dont entirely blame "primitive africans." Modern western culture has a fascination with all forms of the occul,t and many western children are brought up on a diet of movies and TV series about witches, demons and possession etc. My yr 8 class (about 13 year old on average) has a present fascination with ouija boards and contacting spirits, which are of course banned in schools (both the boards and any form of spirits) I keep finding them making up boards, and trying to use them.

Don't want to forget about the people that believe in an invisible man in the sky too. That is just as bad as belief in demons and whatnot. That is why mankind is still in the dark ages with few being rational enough to be above belief in fantasy.

[Paracelse]

Wait a minute here, just because you (Paracelse) let these townfolk know you are Pagan they will no longer steal (a sin BTW) from you? Wow, that's really something.

I like this aura of mystery it's rather difficult to explain. I work on the net therefore people don't see me earning a living (without being in the 1% I'm not on wellfare or retired like 90% of the town) I practice natural medicine whenever I can and I'm very seldom sick. And to finish I help people who are with natural folks remedies and they work. Plus I look way younger than my age. You have to remember this is rural France extremely uneducated with most people who never finished junior high, it's easy to appear something you're not.

PS: on an hilarious note, I sell religious rare books on the net :devil:

[Beckys_Mom]

It helps to tell people you're pagan sometimes ... when I moved to France 3 years ago I had three attempted break ins to my house. Now the entire town knows I'm sort of pagan (which in their small mind see it as being a witch) no one did anything and people leave me alone. I can leave my car open and no one will touch it. :D :devil: :devil: :innocent:

PS: I told also some jehowah's witness who came to my door that my God has a h--mmer whereas their had n--ils

So you used your faith like some weapon and shield.. . Making them think you can curse them or something? These people must be really dense to fall for that. but at the same time, it is not nice to use a faith in that way...

The pagan faith should never be used like that.. I never knew pagans would ever do that..

Edited March 4, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Mr Walker]

Don't want to forget about the people that believe in an invisible man in the sky too. That is just as bad as belief in demons and whatnot. That is why mankind is still in the dark ages with few being rational enough to be above belief in fantasy.

I dont know about the invisible man in the sky, but some people, myself included, encouter very real and physical paranormal /supernatural and spiritual forces. I guess that might also be why this connection persist in humanity. It is constantly reinforced by individual real encounters.

it is rational to accept a reality, what ever that reality is, and irrational to reject an experienced reality because one does not believe in it.

The problem is that not every human lives in, or encounters, precisely the same real world.

If you live in a world where; god, angel,s and ghosts etc are real, then it is rational to accept this and deal with it. If you do not live in world where these are real, it is logical to reject them. Both these worlds coexist in the world humanity jointly experiences.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Mr Walker

[Paracelse]

So you used your faith like some weapon and shield.. . Making them think you can curse them or something? These people must be really dense to fall for that. but at the same time, it is not nice to use a faith in that way...

The pagan faith should never be used like that.. I never knew pagans would ever do that..

I'm not Pagan........ I told them I was but that doesn't mean anything. I just believe in me. I'm my own god ...... and my own evil. It's called the paradox of life.

[Beckys_Mom]

I'm not Pagan........ I told them I was but that doesn't mean anything. I just believe in me. I'm my own god ...... and my own evil. It's called the paradox of life.

So you used a faith to scare people.. How .....lovely !!

[Meiliken]

I dont know about the invisible man in the sky, but some people, myself included, encouter very real and physical paranormal /supernatural and spiritual forces. I guess that might also be why this connection persist in humanity. It is constantly reinforced by individual real encounters.

it is rational to accept a reality, what ever that reality is, and irrational to reject an experienced reality because one does not believe in it.

The problem is that not every human lives in, or encounters, precisely the same real world.

If you live in a world where; god, angel,s and ghosts etc are real, then it is rational to accept this and deal with it. If you do not live in world where these are real, it is logical to reject them. Both these worlds coexist in the world humanity jointly experiences.

I like that outlook MW, but one thing though. A person that has hallucinations think they are encoutering something real. They're not, but would that make what they accept as reality valid as well? Of course not. Many factors make people hallucinate from drugs, to brain imbalance, to lack of sleep. People who accept hallucinations as reality are categorically insane.

There used to be people who thought the points of light they saw in their vision to be angels. It's been later found to be them seeing the synaptic signals in their eyeballs. You've probably seen it yourself. When you first wake up and stretch, you get a head rush, and start seeing points of light flying around your field of vision. That is a light example of a hallucination.

[Paracelse]

So you used a faith to scare people.. How .....lovely !!

It works! In this silly socialist system, criminals are considered like victims they rob you because you have something to steal. I believe it's the same in the UK. Difference is prolly, cops don't show up when you call them in case of an emergency and if you defend yourself you go to jail. I have to care for an elerderly mother then run my business in order to make a living. Do you think I will any culpability for doing what I did? You wouuld be wrong and I used their faith against them.

[Beckys_Mom]

It works!

No it does not work...If using other peoples religious faiths and pretending to be one of them.. to make people assume that you can sure them is plain stupid and insensitive to the Pagan faith itself ...It shows how much you really know about it all ...

Some day you will say it to the wrong person, perhaps one who is pagan and they will put you in your place.. I never assume Pagans will curse people.. I am not that arrogant..

[Meiliken]

No it does not work...If using other peoples religious faiths and pretending to be one of them.. to make people assume that you can sure them is plain stupid and insensitive to the Pagan faith itself ...It shows how much you really know about it all ...

Some day you will say it to the wrong person, perhaps one who is pagan and they will put you in your place.. I never assume Pagans will curse people.. I am not that arrogant..

Yeah, it seems equal to a guy who claims to be a doctor but isn't. Deception is never a good thing, not even for good causes. It's dishonorable, and is a betrayal of the darkest nature. A person who does so has no integrity, or honor.

[Mr Walker]

I like that outlook MW, but one thing though. A person that has hallucinations think they are encoutering something real. They're not, but would that make what they accept as reality valid as well? Of course not. Many factors make people hallucinate from drugs, to brain imbalance, to lack of sleep. People who accept hallucinations as reality are categorically insane.

There used to be people who thought the points of light they saw in their vision to be angels. It's been later found to be them seeing the synaptic signals in their eyeballs. You've probably seen it yourself. When you first wake up and stretch, you get a head rush, and start seeing points of light flying around your field of vision. That is a light example of a hallucination.

Indeed. And a good point. Our own life experiences bias us. I have never had an hallucination other than those induced under strong painkillng medication. But I have encountered very real supernatural entities including those i would label god and angel.

One must apply a whole series of reality checkers and logic to such experiences (In a way as a child must, to determine every new reality in their life) Because my own experiences are verifiably NOT hallucinations, ie occuring within my mind/head (any more than all our experiences have a part that exists within our mind) I tend to forget that some humans do "suffer" from hallucinations caused by various factors.

Arguably, people who believe any verifiable reality to be an hallucination, are also "insane" At best they are as dysfunctional as those who accept and act on their hallucinations.

[karmakazi]

Witches were pegged by the religious as evil... IRONICALLY it took evil to kill them all..

This planet is truly built on IRONY... and too many are too dumb to notice it in these cases

Yeah, it's the hit them before they can hit us policy. Quick, call them evil so they don't have a chance to call us evil!

[Mr Walker]

It works! In this silly socialist system, criminals are considered like victims they rob you because you have something to steal. I believe it's the same in the UK. Difference is prolly, cops don't show up when you call them in case of an emergency and if you defend yourself you go to jail. I have to care for an elerderly mother then run my business in order to make a living. Do you think I will any culpability for doing what I did? You wouuld be wrong and I used their faith against them.

Yup it works. Many of the kids (12-18 year olds) at my school believe i am a ninja assassin who can walk through rain without getting wet, and can kill a person barehanded, or with any number of items lying around the class room. Whether they are right or wrong, I benefit from their belief. And I am not about to disabuse them of it. (It might even be the truth).

When one is dealing with testosterone charged young men, a foot taller than you, and 45 years younger, one takes every advantage one has. That includes the real ones, (yes i could still do what they think I can) and the perceived ones. Perception stops a lot more violence than violence does.

Most people use body language etc., to create a psychological advantage with other people, yet this is only a form of belief.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Mr Walker

[Meiliken]

One must apply a whole series of reality checkers and logic to such experiences (In a way as a child must, to determine every new reality in their life) Because my own experiences are verifiably NOT hallucinations, ie occuring within my mind/head (any more than all our experiences have a part that exists within our mind) I tend to forget that some humans do "suffer" from hallucinations caused by various factors.

Arguably, people who believe any verifiable reality to be an hallucination, are also "insane" At best they are as dysfunctional as those who accept and act on their hallucinations.

Aye, that's why any time an individual makes a claim that appears contrary to reality, it's always best to pick it apart like a scientist would. Indeed that seems to be the purpose of UM. To explore all things that make people go hmm, and puzzle it out. Heh, the part where you said "verifiable reality to be an hallucination", for some reason I envisioned "Inception".

[Beckys_Mom]

Yup it works.

Care to explain how pretending to be a Pagan will work against crime ? That is a head scratcher... ..

Yeah, it's the hit them before they can hit us policy. Quick, call them evil so they don't have a chance to call us evil!

Exactly .. Hammer nail . and head

Edited March 6, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Mr Walker]

Care to explain how pretending to be a Pagan will work against crime ? That is a head scratcher... ..

Easy. People respond to what they believe, not what is so. And if a person believes it may be dangerous to harrass another, they are less likely to do so. Like the short story of a man who owned a shop in a crime ridden neighbourhood. He was never robbed because the local hoods believed he was "connected " to organised crime. Maybe he was, or maybe he wasnt. His protection didnt come from any connection, whether it existed or not, it came from how the hoods perceived him, and what they believed about him.

Criminals are not too bright and chose easy targets. Why pick on a person you think might be able to put a curse on you, or call on the mafia bosses, when there are easier targets.

[Beckys_Mom]

. And if a person believes it may be dangerous to harrass another, they are less likely to do so.

Why would anyone believe that the Pagan faith will be dangerous?/ I mean Only ignorance would or could spread that ugly rumour... right? ...And only dim witted people would beleive it right?

[Mr Walker]

Why would anyone believe that the Pagan faith will be dangerous?/ I mean Only ignorance would or could spread that ugly rumour... right? ...And only dim witted people would beleive it right?

Depends doesnt it, just what spells and abilities a particular pagan has. The one that makes people really itchy, and occasionally turn green was, i found as a child teenager,particularly effective. Judicious use of a little powder from the itchy powder tree, and a certain organic substance I wont name in front of the children, helped the spells efficacy.

Yes it depends on belief. Thats the point. But that belief might be well founded or ill founded. The shop owner might be connected to the mafia or not. The pagan may have a few interesting curses up his sleeve. They might work or they might not . Why take the risk?

This of course is not restricted to pagans. I have a niece whose mother inlaw was calabrian mafia and conected into the drug trade in queensland. The mother in law believed in magic spells, and tried to put a curse on my niece. Her response was "I am protected by a greater magic, my belief in christ."

The mother in law gave up a that point, either knowing she couldnt win (intimidate) against that degree faith, or perhaps because she was also a "good" catholic and actually believed in christ's protection herself, and believed her spells could not prevail against angels..

Edited March 6, 2012 by Mr Walker

[Beckys_Mom]

Depends doesnt it, just what spells and abilities a particular pagan has.

And who or what exactly would give them the spells? What is your assumption based on? .OR are you just going along with made up rumours by so many anti-Pagans who have not gotten the 1st clue? Can you explain which is it?