Pagan Magic

[trancelikestate]

I myself don't follow any set beliefs but I've been reading into both celtic paganism and wicca recently purely out of curiosity and was wondering if there's anyone on here who actually performs the spellcaft related to these religions. My question for you is does it work and what kind of experiences can you share?

I'm not looking for the opinions of skeptics in this thread as I'm not tying to create a "is it real or not" debate. I would like to hear only from those involved in the pagan religions if at all possible, although I'm sure I'll get posts from everyone anyway.

[Beany]

There are probably as many kinds of wiccans as there are Christians. It's my opinion, which is probably worth a nickel, maybe less, ceremony/ritual sets the intention by bringing a thought or idea out of the non-physical realm into the physical. And, wiccan ritual is not about creating spells that are intended to give the practitioner power over another person or the natural world. If that is one's intention, it would be good to remember that wiccan belief that what we put out into the world comes back to us multiplied many times.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Beany

[Simbi Laveau]

I practice.

My roots are Wicca,and I guess Celtic practices,but I wouldn't say this is where it all originates.

I personally,am initiated into 2 forms of Wicca,Gardnerian,and Welsh.Which are probably the oldest and most traditional.

Wicca,Gardnerian Wicca,is a very young religion.Barely 100 years,as Wicca anyway.

There are many covens that declare another subset.

Black Forest,Silver Serpent,Aridian,Alexandrian.blah blah blah .

I do not like certain aspects of Wiccan community,and covens,so I am what you call a solitary.I do work with others,but I dont do the weekly kiss the stone,burn some stuff,and call on Artemis kind of stuff. It just isn't me.

Wicca,is really a derivation of what is today called Stregheria,but no one will admit to this.Gardner traveled extensively in Italy,observing the locals,who still practice this ancient art today.

If you look at ancient Rome,like BC Rome,some of the rituals used by wiccans today,have been documented as roman pagan practices.

Gardner also took part of the initiation process used in stregha,and claimed it as his own.

If anyone doesn't believe this,as some wiccans will say ,OH NOOOOO,WE LEARNED FROM THE FAERIES..no,have a talk with Raven Grimassi,and then get back to me.

Again,the Wiccan community can be quite tedious,given they dont even know their own the history half the time.

Celtic practices,I would say came down from ancient druidic practices in Europe.I know people who practice this stuff today.Very powerful stuff.A lot of sex magick,and female empowerment and earth magick.Just think Stonehenge.

I personally prefer island religious practices.Santeria and religions therein,can for the most part,trace their roots to Niger and the Congo,which then laid roots in Haiti.

Santeria Orishas all have a voodoo counter part,which is not a coincidence.Santeria comes from voodoo in my opinion,but im not so sure a whole lot of Cubans would agree with me.Maybe.

I do use deities from the Hindu,Egyptian,and Buddhist pantheons.

Im ecclectic. The longer you practice,the less you have to physically do. Most high priestess/priests,will agree.

You just have to think on it .Magick,also depends upon the karma of the individual doing it.

If you are not meant to marry Justin Beiber,or be a trillionaire,no amount of spells will change this.

Most spells amount to the power of positive thinking,with added physical ritual.

Im not sure exactly what you want to know,except who seriously practices here,or what we do.

I have altars in my home.I have objects of high magick ,which most practitioners do not.

I believe in God,and I am more spiritual than religious.

Does it work,well it does if it's meant to be.

Some things should never be toyed with .

Magick to kill someone,make someone sick .Revenge magick,grey area.Deoends what they did to you.

Love magick,and money magick,are,as I said ,karmic.

If you do magick for say badly needed rent money,you will get it,a million dollars,probably not.

Love magick can have serious consequences .You can end up with a stalking situation .

My advice is always ,not to do love magick on one specific person.I mean it can be meant to be,but its rare.

Edited March 5, 2012 by missymoo999

[Mr Walker]

God/the cosmic consciousness is integrated into all apsects of the universe and connects them all into one unified entity. Thus, for me, what might be called earth magic works well. One can talk to trees to get good advice.

One should respect, and take into consideration, the "nature of nature" when one is in it. Most early pagan magic was aimed at working with, and appeasing the spirits of, nature. To me, these are all interconnected elemets of god, but i still am tempted to make an offering to the earth or to a forest. I treat animals with repsct because they are a part of this web of life/ consciousness. The earth and nature contain elemantal forces which are a part of the life force of god. They can heal and harm and possess great power. One must work in synchronicity/symmetry with them to live succesfully in the "real " world, rather than fight/oppose them.

In our urban lives we tend to both reject and forget this truth, but if you spend much time in the wild and quiet places of earth. you will be reminded of it, often very powerfully. I sometimes think atheism would be a very difficult belief to sustain, if a person lived for long, at one with nature. Eventually, one would come to sense, perceive, and connect to, the god(s) of nature, no matter how educated one was in biology etc.

[Clarakore]

I practice as a Christian witch. Ritual is a wonderful way to psychologically balance yourself. Nature is also wonderful but I constantly integrate my practice to the urban reality I live in.

There is no sense in lying to myself in believing that the city is miserable and nature is some idyllic paradise where everything would be perfect. No, I try to find the sacredness and magic of the city, its streets, forms, grids, parks, parking lots, drains, structures, green belts, people, and my place in all of this.

There is energy in so many places, traffic is like a river, storm drains can hide and carry away, trees watch but also guard, buildings have their own pulse, and spells can make use of this.

There has always been a divide between rural and urban magic. Northern Europe always made more use of rural forms while Southern Europe tended to hage more urban practitioners. La Celestina is a work of fiction but demonstrates a portrait of urban magic. Love spells, fortune telling, card reading, all involve urban concerns and make use of products not easily found in purely agricultural societies. An example are tarot cards which require an urban environment to even be made as a product.

[Clarakore]

Double post but anyways returning or finding simpler ways to live in the city is awesome. So much hope. Things are getting better because magic or not people are starting to be on the same page regarding making our cities more liveable.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Unseelie

[Simbi Laveau]

Some cities/cultures,live with nature ,much better than others Unseelie.Just my observation.

To live with nature in the NYC area,you have to be able to afford a house with a large backyard.And yes,we have parks and so on,but it's all rather sterile now.

The earth in our backyards is life less.

We dont have butterflies,and bees anymore.

Some birds,and you can say plant a hummingbird garden,but they dont come.

But then in Japan,you can be in the middle of Tokyo,and the gardens in the backyards,no matter how small,team with life.

Fruit trees and birds and bugs and all manner of animal.

Their parks are natural zoos,not man made.

I go to the parks in Japan,and feed the birds and the koi and the turtles...

Its a whole different feel. I'd love to plant a garden at home,but they just do not flourish. My fig trees still grow.My uncle planted them when I was a child.They died one winter,and grew back 2 years later.I like to think his soul lives in the branches.

Its hard,very hard ,to be with nature,in my city.Sad but true.

I saw incredible photos of apartment buildings in the Philippines,all planted.The roofs,the balconies.Explosions of lush color .Some cities in the USA are utilizing rooftops to grow food!

Not NYC.I call our mayor our Fuhrer.The title fits.

Edited March 5, 2012 by missymoo999

[trancelikestate]

God/the cosmic consciousness is integrated into all apsects of the universe and connects them all into one unified entity. Thus, for me, what might be called earth magic works well. One can talk to trees to get good advice.

One should respect, and take into consideration, the "nature of nature" when one is in it. Most early pagan magic was aimed at working with, and appeasing the spirits of, nature. To me, these are all interconnected elemets of god, but i still am tempted to make an offering to the earth or to a forest. I treat animals with repsct because they are a part of this web of life/ consciousness. The earth and nature contain elemantal forces which are a part of the life force of god. They can heal and harm and possess great power. One must work in synchronicity/symmetry with them to live succesfully in the "real " world, rather than fight/oppose them.

In our urban lives we tend to both reject and forget this truth, but if you spend much time in the wild and quiet places of earth. you will be reminded of it, often very powerfully. I sometimes think atheism would be a very difficult belief to sustain, if a person lived for long, at one with nature. Eventually, one would come to sense, perceive, and connect to, the god(s) of nature, no matter how educated one was in biology etc.

your beliefs are very similar to the current state of my ever evolving beliefs.

Wicca,is really a derivation of what is today called Stregheria,but no one will admit to this.Gardner traveled extensively in Italy,observing the locals,who still practice this ancient art today.

If you look at ancient Rome,like BC Rome,some of the rituals used by wiccans today,have been documented as roman pagan practices.

Gardner also took part of the initiation process used in stregha,and claimed it as his own.

I've never actually heard about stregheria before. The last book I read was about druidry, the current about wicca, I think stregheria will be my next area of study.

Im not sure exactly what you want to know,except who seriously practices here,or what we do.

Pretty much ya, more of the what you do and how it works for you. I'm a person who is on an ongoing spiritual quest at the moment (this from christian turned hardcore athiest I might add) and in paganism seems to be something which resembles closest to my current beliefs. I guess I'm looking for those who practice to either solidify (or push me away from if thats the case) these current feelings. I'm just ever evolving and ever curious, so please continue.

Edited March 6, 2012 by trancelikestate

[+Paranoid Android]

There is power in the universe that can be harnessed through various means. The nature of Nature, for example, provides a huge amount of power to tap into. As a Christian I don't tap into those powers because I prefer to rely on God. But before I became a Christian I witnessed (and experienced) the power of "pagan magic", so I have no doubt that such things can and do happen, and that the power can be harnessed and used by those who wish to learn how to do it.

Sorry, you said you only wanted pagan responses, but as someone who long ago looked into pagan ideas and briefly joined a pagan group, I wanted to share that such things are possible and do happen, even though today I respect my God too much to actually practice those kinds of things.

Hope this is of help

[trancelikestate]

There is power in the universe that can be harnessed through various means. The nature of Nature, for example, provides a huge amount of power to tap into. As a Christian I don't tap into those powers because I prefer to rely on God. But before I became a Christian I witnessed (and experienced) the power of "pagan magic", so I have no doubt that such things can and do happen, and that the power can be harnessed and used by those who wish to learn how to do it.

Sorry, you said you only wanted pagan responses, but as someone who long ago looked into pagan ideas and briefly joined a pagan group, I wanted to share that such things are possible and do happen, even though today I respect my God too much to actually practice those kinds of things.

Hope this is of help

no I appreciate a response from a monotheist. In fact your experience takes away a certain bias I think others may have. It's the skeptics who really wouldn't have anything constructive to contribute to the topic I want to avoid.

I do have a question for you though. Why is it that you believe your god would be "disrespected" by someone taping into the natural powers of the universe? Some, myself included, feel that they are the same energy that you consider "god." Do you disagree and if so what do you think they are?

Edited March 6, 2012 by trancelikestate

[White Crane Feather]

There are probably as many kinds of wiccans as there are Christians. It's my opinion, which is probably worth a nickel, maybe less, ceremony/ritual sets the intention by bringing a thought or idea out of the non-physical realm into the physical. And, wiccan ritual is not about creating spells that are intended to give the practitioner power over another person or the natural world. If that is one's intention, it would be good to remember that wiccan belief that what we put out into the world comes back to us multiplied many times.

Good answer. Focusing personal thoughts and attention or bringing a group of people into the same thought and intention. Not unlike prayer and group prayer.

[White Crane Feather]

God/the cosmic consciousness is integrated into all apsects of the universe and connects them all into one unified entity. Thus, for me, what might be called earth magic works well. One can talk to trees to get good advice.

One should respect, and take into consideration, the "nature of nature" when one is in it. Most early pagan magic was aimed at working with, and appeasing the spirits of, nature. To me, these are all interconnected elemets of god, but i still am tempted to make an offering to the earth or to a forest. I treat animals with repsct because they are a part of this web of life/ consciousness. The earth and nature contain elemantal forces which are a part of the life force of god. They can heal and harm and possess great power. One must work in synchronicity/symmetry with them to live succesfully in the "real " world, rather than fight/oppose them.

In our urban lives we tend to both reject and forget this truth, but if you spend much time in the wild and quiet places of earth. you will be reminded of it, often very powerfully. I sometimes think atheism would be a very difficult belief to sustain, if a person lived for long, at one with nature. Eventually, one would come to sense, perceive, and connect to, the god(s) of nature, no matter how educated one was in biology etc.

Brovo MW. You always say exactly what I don't have the poise to say properly.

[Crocodonk]

Look into ceremonial magick, it covers everything.

[ChloeB]

There is power in the universe that can be harnessed through various means. The nature of Nature, for example, provides a huge amount of power to tap into. As a Christian I don't tap into those powers because I prefer to rely on God. But before I became a Christian I witnessed (and experienced) the power of "pagan magic", so I have no doubt that such things can and do happen, and that the power can be harnessed and used by those who wish to learn how to do it.

Sorry, you said you only wanted pagan responses, but as someone who long ago looked into pagan ideas and briefly joined a pagan group, I wanted to share that such things are possible and do happen, even though today I respect my God too much to actually practice those kinds of things.

Hope this is of help

PA joined a pagan group! *gasps* Do you mean there was a time you were groovy before you became a goody goody Christian choir boy? I'm teasing, but I'm curious to know what you witnessed and experienced if you'd care to elaborate.

As to the OP, yes, one of my very best friends is pagan. There was a dog that got hurt climbing a chain link fence, she had her foot hung in it and fell backwards. The leg was broken so bad that when she walked it would actually swing side to side up at the hip. The vet said it would need a special surgeon just to do it so before the surgery, some of the swelling had to go down. It was swollen just awful, and so while they were waiting she came up with a little healing ritual. I helped, but she was the one with the experience. I'd read books and stuff, but you do this thing where she said you raise energy and at the part, the dog started reacting, getting hyped up like she felt something. Well it was nothing that materialized but within a week, the dog was putting weight on the leg and she never had the surgery. The vets couldn't believe it. It wasn't long before she was running, jumping and even trying to climb the same fence again where she broke the leg. I am skeptical about that stuff, but I was there I saw it with my own two eyes, especially that raising energy part, that dog felt that, I'll swear it. I went to a few full moons and sabbats too, I felt energy there, but that could be in my head. The dog story, I can't explain that one.

Edited March 7, 2012 by ChloeB

[Bildr]

There is power in the universe that can be harnessed through various means. The nature of Nature, for example, provides a huge amount of power to tap into. As a Christian I don't tap into those powers because I prefer to rely on God. But before I became a Christian I witnessed (and experienced) the power of "pagan magic", so I have no doubt that such things can and do happen, and that the power can be harnessed and used by those who wish to learn how to do it.

Sorry, you said you only wanted pagan responses, but as someone who long ago looked into pagan ideas and briefly joined a pagan group, I wanted to share that such things are possible and do happen, even though today I respect my God too much to actually practice those kinds of things.

Hope this is of help

I kinda find a contradiction between the phrase; ''The nature of Nature, for example, provides a huge amount of power to tap into. As a Christian I don't tap into those powers because I prefer to rely on God.''. Since, by my own spiritual experiences and knowledge path, tend to see ''god''(or whatever you wanna called it... but in my opinion i hate to give a name to something that is more of a force,energy, consciousness, then a physical being, or a beard men in the sky like they like to see it in the bible) and nature as the same thing. Because ''God'' in my own experience is more of a force, an energy,a consciousness of nature, of our universe that bind us, or interconnect us. And since we are made ourselves of this energy, our atoms are energy, our consciousness is energy and we to have the power to create, out of nothing... like new ideas. Like the idea of mens/womens, HUMANS'S right didn't exist before. We created that. Societal structure, our money system, it didn't appeared out of nowhere, we created that. Carl Sagan used to say; ''We are a way for the cosmos(universe) to know itself''.

For myself I don't bind to any tradition, since i tend to find this limiting. They are as many possibility of truth, as many possibility of perception that their is humans on this earth, that their is grain of sand of this earth. The most that i could say is that i inspire myself a lot from a mix of Celtic,Asatru(Nordic Scandinavian paganism), Buddhism and had a part of science of my spirituality but I would never stick to any empirical knowledge, any empirical way to practices, and thus never stick myself to only one tradition since knowledge is always an ever evolving thing. A tradition(like Wicca) can help you find your way, but in the same thing as the bible, or the koran, or any pagan tradition can only be in the end help you find your way out of those MANY multiple possibility to experience...not experience but to create yourself.

All religions were created by man, also written by man, and announced by the man. All sacred texts are only aberrations as long as man does not understand that these texts only serves to put it back on track and that the notion of superiority is false. The only being that man should worship it himself. '' He'' is everything. Man must worship the whole and not a god.

If a designer wanted to give his wisdom to his creation, he would never have written a book. In fact he didn't need, he gave it in the heart of every human. It just takes you and I to see it to understand that we are all divine beings; animals, trees, earth and all that exists.'' [...]

[Beckys_Mom]

PA joined a pagan group! *gasps* Do you mean there was a time you were groovy before you became a goody goody Christian choir boy?

I shouldn't laugh but............lol Chloe .. girl you are a card !!

OP....I don't think I hae met a Pagan...I met a wannabe one once.. But he was a wolly and had no sense, I doubt the pagans would have wanted him. lol

I dont know if pagan magic is real or not.. I cannot comment on that as I have not really asked much or looked into it... So I cannot give much of an opinion

I do not think it is right for people to slam Pagans and make them out to be evil, claiming they work for Satan or demons and go around casting evil spells and curing people.. I do not believe they do ..So I think only dim witted people spread such rumours ..

Edited March 7, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[ChloeB]

I shouldn't laugh but............lol Chloe .. girl you are a card !!

Hahaha, I got all excited knowing PA went to a pagan group, made me misbehave!

It's me demons that make do it, BM. I'm infested with them, prolly from hanging out with them evil pagans.

[G3N0M3]

I've studied different kinds of "witchcraft" and used to "practice it" at the start of my "religious evolution". I practiced both "white" and "black" spells, enchantments, bindings, energy and thought manipulation, etc.

In my experience "it works" but not all the time, if only the circumstances are right, if you are effecting someone else, they must be "suseptable" to it such as "posessions". If you are enchanting there are many factors from the chemical compounds and physical structure of the object to your own self and surrounding environment.

I completely misunderstood how it worked, I actually started learning it to gain an understanding of it. After understanding how it works I realized that chanting, lighting candles, sitting in a circle, none of that is actually what created the effects of the spell. These things may help you, but like most religions, pegans or wiccans take power away from themselves to give to an "entity" or "god" to accomplish something, because they feel too weak or small to accomplish it on their own.

Giving that entity or god this energy or thought "sustains" the entity or "god" which empowers it. When so many people who all worship the same entity or "god" that thought energy is directed through the entity or god to create a miracle or "spell".

To me and many "secret groups" such as the "Free Masons"; I believe that we should not be empowering other entities or people but instead ourselves, the world and eachother.

Empowering ourselves and eachother we achieve spirituality, an understanding of the world around us beyond the physical. But because the physical must exist for a place beyond the physical to exist (otherwise it would just be) we should also understand and experience that "beyond" so that we learn then that these entities that are only "beyond" should not be given the energy/power that we give them daily. Not only do we feed "gods" which are only entities unlike humans but we also create "gods" through thought which people "control" by controlling those who worship that god.

Furthermore there are many structures and sub-structures created by this "empowerment scheme" and "Natural Dimensions" which is the accumulated structure of sub-structures that are created and maintained by specific forces, such as gravity, cymatics, etc. Within each "Natural Dimension" exists a "dimensional entity" we are the dimensional entity for this dimension/galaxy, other "gods" that were not physical have been an alter-dimensional entity misunderstood by people because it exists within a different set of "laws". Gods who were at one point on this planet ie. Greek, Roman and Norse gods were all a kind of "Jesus" who were a mixture of "Physical and alter-dimensional entities" which were able to exist within this "dimension" Other instances of gods were "dimensional entities" from another galaxy, these are the non-humanlike gods.

Angels and demons are misunderstood entities and some demons have even been created by people BECAUSE of the church. The church tells you that "this demon looks like this and does this too you" *showing a picture at the same time*, our thought again being a physical and non-physical thing creates that entity through fear and emotional stress. Same thing goes for some "angels". Even "Saints" are able to continue on living even after death if they so choose it as long as people are empowering them with thought.

Understanding that these entities are created by people, we have understood how to control those entities. This is "black magic" because you are controlling something or taking the "will" from something, even causeing it/them harm. This in-turn is why the Church had burned over 9 million witches, if they did not kill them they would spread their knowledge/understanding and subsequently the Church would lose its hold over people. Even now they exert their "power" over people causing people to be possessed because that person is told that they have no control, God and the Devil control everything. So a person who for example has the capability of being a "Medium or Psychic" but is otherwise told that that is evil by their family and religion, they will be afraid of an entity being able to possess them. In reality the person is not being "possessed" they are "taking in or letting in" that energy that is a "demon entity" thinking that it could either be God or the Devil come to empower them. In possession cases you hear of the person gaining knowledge that they "could not know" (languages) and that they become stronger physically (small girl lifting a large man), also they end up developing enhanced psychic abilities (throwing things around a room, lifting a bed off the ground).

All of this is thought to be the entity causing these effects, in reality it is the conjunction of the entity with the person, giving that person the "energy/power" to do supernatural things.

This all being said, you "merge" with that entity, so you do become one with that entity, if it is a bad or monevelent energy/entity you will become corrupt (man being both good and evil) and without proper "checks" that entity can overcome your mental reasoning (if you believe you are too weak you will allow the thoughts in your mind to be said or done).

In most "hardcore" Wiccan and Pegan groups you are worshiping a specific god with your group, and to accomplish something you have a "conduit" the strongest person in your group. This "conduit" is actually a person who allows themself to become possessed by that god or entity to accomplish the spell/hex the group is trying to accomplish. Much like how a team of excorsists chants and prays to their god to force an entity from controling a person (they take the power of god into themselves to save another), the group chants and "prays" to the entity/god to focus the "conduits" thoughts to accomplish what the group wants.

[Simbi Laveau]

Ceremonial magick doesn't cover everything ,not in my opinion .Its also basically the conjuring of demons.

It can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Its of course what Aliester Crowley used the most .He was also a kabbalist.He was despised .

Long story.....i admit,I am particularly fond of a few of the Goertia though...i probably got my feet wet with Goertia demons,long before I learned to cast a proper circle.I was very reckless in my youth .

If you want to see a bit of a stregheria ritual,there is actually a bit of one in that war movie.

Very sad movie,but it takes place in Italy .

Stregheria is done quite a lot ,by very catholic people.

Its just part of the culture.Similiar to how most Japanese are Buddhist,but Shinto practices are done in every day life.

The movie is Miracle at St Anna.

And Raven Grimassi is probably the most renoun expert in Stregheria in the USA today.Hes written many books.

OK,im going to post this here,for those of us who are believers.

The people that run it,are a husband and wife high priest and priestess.

Their old board,psychic chat,was the coolest one I've ever been on.

She just started this one.

They are very easy going,but if morons go in saying none of this is true,and making fun of other constituents,my guess is,they will ban you faster than a yeti can run the minute mile.

So this is for believers,and people who want to learn more.Hecklers are not tolerated .

Nuff said.

http://thegoddesswithin.forumotion.co.uk/

[Beany]

God/the cosmic consciousness is integrated into all apsects of the universe and connects them all into one unified entity. Thus, for me, what might be called earth magic works well. One can talk to trees to get good advice.

One should respect, and take into consideration, the "nature of nature" when one is in it. Most early pagan magic was aimed at working with, and appeasing the spirits of, nature. To me, these are all interconnected elemets of god, but i still am tempted to make an offering to the earth or to a forest. I treat animals with repsct because they are a part of this web of life/ consciousness. The earth and nature contain elemantal forces which are a part of the life force of god. They can heal and harm and possess great power. One must work in synchronicity/symmetry with them to live succesfully in the "real " world, rather than fight/oppose them.

In our urban lives we tend to both reject and forget this truth, but if you spend much time in the wild and quiet places of earth. you will be reminded of it, often very powerfully. I sometimes think atheism would be a very difficult belief to sustain, if a person lived for long, at one with nature. Eventually, one would come to sense, perceive, and connect to, the god(s) of nature, no matter how educated one was in biology etc.

That was beautifully said. Symmetry, working with instead of against, or as I like to say, conspiring with the intelligent energies of the universe to create the kind of life that sustains us.

[+Paranoid Android]

no I appreciate a response from a monotheist. In fact your experience takes away a certain bias I think others may have. It's the skeptics who really wouldn't have anything constructive to contribute to the topic I want to avoid.

I do have a question for you though. Why is it that you believe your god would be "disrespected" by someone taping into the natural powers of the universe? Some, myself included, feel that they are the same energy that you consider "god." Do you disagree and if so what do you think they are?

I follow the God of the Bible, and he warns us not to consult mediums, spiritualists, witches, etc. Not because they are not real, but because they can be very real, in my opinion. The thing is, when it comes to God, he wants us to put our trust in HIM. Not put our trust in witches, mediums, nature, etc. By seeking these things we are essentially saying to God that his power is not enough for us, that we don't need him and can rely on other spiritual forces besides God.

And yes, I understand that some people such as yourself believe that the energy in the universe is "god", so therefore using these powers is the same as God. I do not see it that way, and as such I prefer to Trust the God of the Universe than trust the energies that exist in this world.

Does that make sense?

~ PA

Edited March 8, 2012 by Paranoid Android

[+Paranoid Android]

PA joined a pagan group! *gasps* Do you mean there was a time you were groovy before you became a goody goody Christian choir boy? I'm teasing, but I'm curious to know what you witnessed and experienced if you'd care to elaborate.

I was with a couple of other like-minded folk and we were sitting around a local park that is home to one of the oldest Oak trees in Sydney. Many branches of paganism attribute the Oak as sacred and often linked to deities associated with storms and lightning. So anyway, we were trying to make it rain, even though the weather forecast was saying it would be dry for the rest of the week. Long story short, without notice came a massive storm complete with hailstones and violent winds.

Yeah, this isn't as impressive as the story about your friend's dog, but we could all feel the power as the storm started as a warm sunny day and moved slowly towards crazy winds and dark skies, thunder, lightning, hail.....

These days I'm just a goody goody Christian choir boy

~ PA

[+Paranoid Android]

I kinda find a contradiction between the phrase; ''The nature of Nature, for example, provides a huge amount of power to tap into. As a Christian I don't tap into those powers because I prefer to rely on God.''. Since, by my own spiritual experiences and knowledge path, tend to see ''god''(or whatever you wanna called it... but in my opinion i hate to give a name to something that is more of a force,energy, consciousness, then a physical being, or a beard men in the sky like they like to see it in the bible) and nature as the same thing. Because ''God'' in my own experience is more of a force, an energy,a consciousness of nature, of our universe that bind us, or interconnect us.

It is only a contradiction because you see god as very much the same thing as Nature (well, the consciousness of nature). For me, God is a spirit entity. It is all around us, but it is not the same as the forces of nature that many pagans revere. In fact, my God is the power that created the natural forces. God is not a "bearded man" as you put it, he has no form. But he is more than the powers of nature. Hence for me it is not a contradiction to separate them

~ Regards,

[HerEyesWideShut]

I follow the God of the Bible, and he warns us not to consult mediums, spiritualists, witches, etc. Not because they are not real, but because they can be very real, in my opinion. The thing is, when it comes to God, he wants us to put our trust in HIM. Not put our trust in witches, mediums, nature, etc. By seeking these things we are essentially saying to God that his power is not enough for us, that we don't need him and can rely on other spiritual forces besides God.

And yes, I understand that some people such as yourself believe that the energy in the universe is "god", so therefore using these powers is the same as God. I do not see it that way, and as such I prefer to Trust the God of the Universe than trust the energies that exist in this world.

Does that make sense?

~ PA

Witches, Mediums, Psychics etc are connected to God more so than the average person (or at least we are more aware of it and because of this we cultivate it). I think to shun this closer connection to The Divine, and whatever wisdom or insight they can impart on us is to go against "God" or The Gods. It's ignoring the counselors, and speakers of their thoughts and wants for us.

This is just my opinion though.

[+Paranoid Android]

Witches, Mediums, Psychics etc are connected to God more so than the average person (or at least we are more aware of it and because of this we cultivate it). I think to shun this closer connection to The Divine, and whatever wisdom or insight they can impart on us is to go against "God" or The Gods. It's ignoring the counselors, and speakers of their thoughts and wants for us.

This is just my opinion though.

When it comes to something like this all we have are our opinions. I believe differently to you, though I respect everyone's choice to follow a different path if that is their choice