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Still Waters

Bin Laden was not buried at sea,

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Posted (edited)

Conspiracists: skeptic thinker I knew something was fishy about burying him at sea, we may have been right after all! Oh joy, perhaps now the skeptics dogmatic conformists will be able to admit that the Government blatantly lies to them about things.

Skeptics: dogmatic conformist So what I don't care what happened to him!!

I think that's more accurate

when you attack skeptics, you attack science and rationality. think about it.

Edited by Little Fish

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Hes dead and buried/or cremated/ or thrown in the sea/ or shot into space for all i care. :w00t:

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Conspiracists: I knew something was fishy about burying him at sea, we may have been right after all! Oh joy, perhaps now the skeptics will be able to admit that the Government blatantly lies to them about things.

More along the lines of:

"I said there was something fishy last time, and now I am saying it again!"

Skeptics: So what I don't care what happened to him!!

Meaning: "Didn't care too much last time, all this time later, care even less."

Seem to be missing the point, I doubt anyone here cares what happened to Osama, but alot of people here seem to not care that the global world can be spoon fed a story which turns out may not be true. Sound familiar? :lol:

Yeah, sounds like that thing you say over and over and over again.

You really think you are doing anything differently than the people you are laughing at?

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I think OBL has been dead for near-on a decade.

Our governments and mainstream media lie to us so much, that it is safe to assume that they lie all the time.

We know they are attempting perception control in just about every article we read.

OBL has been dead for nearly a decade, I contend.

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Bottom line is there is serious reason to doubt that the person killed (murdered) by military forces on behalf of tax paying Americans was not Osama Bin-Laden. I really can't comprehend why it wouldn't bother somebody that our military would run an op on the sovriegn territory of one of our so-called allies without thier permission and then commit cold blooded murder, backed by the oval office no-less. In my opinion they fell far short from showing beyond doubt that this person was who they said it was andto make it worse they disposed of the corpse in a very suspicious way. You would have to be some kind of sociopath to ignore this.

aquatus 1, your spoiling my fun. (that rhymed)

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I think that's more accurate

when you attack skeptics, you attack science and rationality. think about it.

You're correct but... Has anyone ever called you a skeptic thinker on UM? :lol:

I don't know if calling the conformists dogmatic is going to help anything. ;)

Hes dead and buried/or cremated/ or thrown in the sea/ or shot into space for all i care. :w00t:

Thanks for proving my exact point Belial :P

More along the lines of:

"I said there was something fishy last time, and now I am saying it again!"

When do people start using their own brain Aquatus, instead of relying on what they are told through the Media? I know that you personally believed that he was buried at sea, given that you argued that fact so vehemently and at the derision of people who dared to suggest that he wasn't. Perhaps this is why you are a bit testy today.

You bury him with in full accordance with his religion, and suddenly the claims that the Americans are barbarians who could never understand the Islamic way of life suddenly start to sound a little hollow.

Is cremation in accordance with his religion? Good argument... I know we can always rely on America to do the right thing. :lol:

Are you familiar with the Muslim requirements for burial? They do require quickness. It isn't a matter of convenience or suspicion. It is simply a religious custom.

The whole reason for honoring the religious traditions was to give our enemies less ammunition against us.

I'm confused, If America wanted less ammunition then why did they cremate him? hmm...Seems you hold your Government to a very high standard. I honestly wish they lived up to it. Don't get me wrong, what you say would have been the smart thing to do. I just think you can't rely on people to play by the rules Aquatus and you often seem to think that everyone will...

Meaning: "Didn't care too much last time, all this time later, care even less."

Yeah, sounds like that thing you say over and over and over again.

You really think you are doing anything differently than the people you are laughing at?

So you agree, no one cares about OBL? Good. We can agree on this. Do you think It's significant that 'another' American Government lie has been exposed? By no means is it on par with a serious 'conspiracy' but this does put another + in the column for 'Lies to It's People'.

Gee, If I've repeated myself let me know, I was actually under the impression that I hadn't.

Well, I don't care that OBL was dead but I do care that the Government/Military get caught in another lie.

The people I'm laughing at don't care OBL is dead and don't care that the Government/Military got caught in another lie.

So yeah, I do. I'm interested in why you think I'm not doing anything differently though, care to explain?

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Bottom line is there is serious reason to doubt that the person killed (murdered) by military forces on behalf of tax paying Americans was not Osama Bin-Laden. I really can't comprehend why it wouldn't bother somebody that our military would run an op on the sovriegn territory of one of our so-called allies without thier permission and then commit cold blooded murder, backed by the oval office no-less. In my opinion they fell far short from showing beyond doubt that this person was who they said it was andto make it worse they disposed of the corpse in a very suspicious way. You would have to be some kind of sociopath to ignore this.

aquatus 1, your spoiling my fun. (that rhymed)

Well then our difference lies in the evidence provided us in the context of who Seal Team 6 killed then. Again, from what I've read and viewed, I found the forensic evidence to be sufficient, you obviously disagree.

As for the op being run on soveriegn territory of an ally ... I have mixed feelings. I don't like the thought of that much. I could spout my opinion as how strong or weak an ally Pakistan really is, but, in this context, doesn't matter. I might also speculate that, because we have been given permission to run other operations within their borders, this operation might fall under that grey area. However, all I've been able to find and read on that issue has been opinion and conflicting information. Ergo, mixed feelings.

As for your opinion implying anyone who doesn't agree with your line of thinking, then yes I would probably agree it sociopathic, if I was of the mindset to distrust every bit of evidence and every player surrounding this.

**Both of you, cut it out.**

**Back on topic.**

Apologies, my sarcasm gets the better of me sometimes, duly noted.

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As for your opinion implying anyone who doesn't agree with your line of thinking, then yes I would probably agree it sociopathic, if I was of the mindset to distrust every bit of evidence and every player surrounding this.

The sociopathic attitude I was refering to was not you, but rather the disconnect I perceive from many Americans in general when it comes to the taking of human life. For many the murder sponsored around the world is viewed with less passion than killing an alien in halo.

Don't feel obliged to answer this, but ask yourself, just how angry or upset have you ever gotten when hearing about one of the many, many incidents of one of our drones taking out the neighbors of a terrorist, or a wedding party, or what have you? I understand that many people think it's justified collateral damage, but I have to be honest, I'm not afraid of being killed by a terrorist and really have no idea why we're in that part of the world. Well that's not honest, I don't believe the reasons they give us.

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You're correct but... Has anyone ever called you a skeptic thinker on UM? :lol:

I don't know if calling the conformisuts dogmatic is going to help anything. ;)

Thanks for proving my exact point Belial :P

When do people start using their own brain Aquatus, instead of relying on what they are told through the Media? I know that you personally believed that he was buried at sea, given that you argued that fact so vehemently and at the derision of people who dared to suggest that he wasn't. Perhaps this is why you are a bit testy today.

Is cremation in accordance with his religion? Good argument... I know we can always rely on America to do the right thing. :lol:

I'm confused, If America wanted less ammunition then why did they cremate him? hmm...Seems you hold your Government to a very high standard. I honestly wish they lived up to it. Don't get me wrong, what you say would have been the smart thing to do. I just think you can't rely on people to play by the rules Aquatus and you often seem to think that everyone will...

So you agree, no one cares about OBL? Good. We can agree on this. Do you think It's significant that 'another' American Government lie has been exposed? By no means is it on par with a serious 'conspiracy' but this does put another + in the column for 'Lies to It's People'.

Gee, If I've repeated myself let me know, I was actually under the impression that I hadn't.

Well, I don't care that OBL was dead but I do care that the Government/Military get caught in another lie.

The people I'm laughing at don't care OBL is dead and don't care that the Government/Military got caught in another lie.

So yeah, I do. I'm interested in why you think I'm not doing anything differently though, care to explain?

He wasn't cremated.

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You're correct but... Has anyone ever called you a skeptic thinker on UM? :lol:

The only person I have ever seen using that term in conjunction with him is himself.

I don't know if calling the conformists dogmatic is going to help anything. wink2.gif

Nope. Didn't help before, isn't going to help now,

When do people start using their own brain Aquatus, instead of relying on what they are told through the Media?

When do you start giving people credit for thinking even though they don't come to the same conclusion that you do?

I know that you personally believed that he was buried at sea, given that you argued that fact so vehemently and at the derision of people who dared to suggest that he wasn't. Perhaps this is why you are a bit testy today.

Hmm...you make a habit of accusing people of relying on others to do their thinking for them. Let me ask you, then, about some of the assumptions you make: For instance, what would you consider to be a vehement argument that he was alive. Please, post an example of it. Also, you claim that I deride people who claimed he wasn't. Please show me an example of that as well.

After all, if you are not a person who simply makes assumptions and goes with them, then you must be a person who has a logical reason to believe what he believes, correct? Show us that reasoning.

Is cremation in accordance with his religion? Good argument... I know we can always rely on America to do the right thing. laugh.gif

Wandering, you do recall that the entire conversation that quote is from was about his burial at sea, not about cremation, correct?

I'm confused, If America wanted less ammunition then why did they cremate him?

Doesn't make any sense, does it? Not even to duffers here on this site, let alone high-level players of the political game.

Why, then, are you so willing to believe that they cremated him instead of burying him at sea, when you willingly admit that is something that does not make sense? Doesn't that seem like something a person who does not think for themselves would do? Doesn't that seem more like something someone who believes what others told them would do?

hmm...Seems you hold your Government to a very high standard. I honestly wish they lived up to it. Don't get me wrong, what you say would have been the smart thing to do. I just think you can't rely on people to play by the rules Aquatus and you often seem to think that everyone will...

That's a curious conclusion to make. Many of the conclusions you make seem rather faulty to me, and I can't help but think that the reason for that is that you insist on making conclusions, regardless of how much or the quality of the data before you.

There is nothing wrong with simply saying that you do not have enough data to come to a conclusion.

Now, as to you response itself, What is the purpose of the comment "You can't rely on people to play by the rules". What rules are you saying where broken, and what purpose would be served by breaking them? What rules are you implying I think they followed or should have followed?

So you agree, no one cares about OBL? Good. We can agree on this.

Well, not on this forum, anyway.

Do you think It's significant that 'another' American Government lie has been exposed? By no means is it on par with a serious 'conspiracy' but this does put another + in the column for 'Lies to It's People'.

I think it is significant that you think this is any different than your claim when this first came out. You were claiming it was a lie then, you are claiming it is a lie now.

That said, I think it is significant for an entirely different reason than you do. You, after all, are talking about your beliefs regarding the government.

Gee, If I've repeated myself let me know, I was actually under the impression that I hadn't.

Oh, Wandering, Wandering...:no:

Well, I don't care that OBL was dead but I do care that the Government/Military get caught in another lie.

The people I'm laughing at don't care OBL is dead and don't care that the Government/Military got caught in another lie.

So yeah, I do. I'm interested in why you think I'm not doing anything differently though, care to explain?

I honestly don't think you are ready to understand it yet.

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When do you start giving people credit for thinking even though they don't come to the same conclusion that you do?

I do. You get my credit for putting forward intelligent posts for the most part, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. I was unaware I needed to inform you of this. However, I made a statement regarding people relying on the Media to tell them what happened and that is when they are not thinking.... So they do not get the credit. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

Hmm...you make a habit of accusing people of relying on others to do their thinking for them. Let me ask you, then, about some of the assumptions you make: For instance, what would you consider to be a vehement argument that he was alive. Please, post an example of it. Also, you claim that I deride people who claimed he wasn't. Please show me an example of that as well.

After all, if you are not a person who simply makes assumptions and goes with them, then you must be a person who has a logical reason to believe what he believes, correct? Show us that reasoning.

I don't consider him to be alive, where do I make that assumption? o.O

I'll have to reply to the rest of your post when I get back.

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I do. You get my credit for putting forward intelligent posts for the most part, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. I was unaware I needed to inform you of this.

I was no more referring to myself specifically than you were referring to anyone specifically.

However, I made a statement regarding people relying on the Media to tell them what happened and that is when they are not thinking.... So they do not get the credit. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

It is when you are doing the same thing. Even more so when it is a regular habit.

I don't consider him to be alive, where do I make that assumption? o.O

No, Wandering, you accused me of arguing...

...know, what...never mind...

I'll have to reply to the rest of your post when I get back.

If you like. Please...spend a little more time thinking about it before responding. This is a discussion board; speed of response isn't rated too highly here.

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Posted (edited)

Since cremation was brought up I am pondering something. Maybe its below the belt humor but what is the difference between cremation and igniting ones self amidst an explosive device. Hrmmm... no replies necessary ... LOL

EDIT: spelling

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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Posted (edited)

Since cremation was brought up I am pondering something. Maybe its below the belt humor but what is the difference between cremation and igniting ones self amidst an explosive device. Hrmmm... no replies necessary ... LOL

EDIT: spelling

:w00t::rofl:

Wandering, you do recall that the entire conversation that quote is from was about his burial at sea, not about cremation, correct?

Yes, I thought it was relevant since they are both on the subject of his death. I was wrong to say "I know that you personally believed that he was buried at sea" as after finding that topic I realised you didn't specifically say that. I didn't delete it before I posted, my bad. If you want to edit it I don't mind. The part I was more concerned about was that you seemed to be considering the media reports as a likely occurence. This is the holding of your Government to high standards that I mentioned before. It's what they should have done, but people are not known for doing the right thing much less what they should have done.

It is when you are doing the same thing. Even more so when it is a regular habit.

I don't make my decisions based on what people tell me. Otherwise, I'd be another advocate of the Rock Hyrax.

No, Wandering, you accused me of arguing...

...know, what...never mind...

I didn't accuse you of arguing, only treating people with what I percieved as derision. To be honest after I posted that I regretted it, It will only detract from the discussion.

I honestly don't think you are ready to understand it yet.

Humour me. I'm here to learn.

Edited by Wandering

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Posted (edited)

:w00t::rofl:

Yes, I thought it was relevant since they are both on the subject of his death. I was wrong to say "I know that you personally believed that he was buried at sea" as after finding that topic I realised you didn't specifically say that. I didn't delete it before I posted, my bad. If you want to edit it I don't mind. The part I was more concerned about was that you seemed to be considering the media reports as a likely occurence. This is the holding of your Government to high standards that I mentioned before. It's what they should have done, but people are not known for doing the right thing much less what they should have done.

I don't make my decisions based on what people tell me. Otherwise, I'd be another advocate of the Rock Hyrax.

I didn't accuse you of arguing, only treating people with what I percieved as derision. To be honest after I posted that I regretted it, It will only detract from the discussion.

Humour me. I'm here to learn.

Damn...are you saying that the Rock Hyrax is not real...thats spoiled my day...:cry:

Edited by BrianPotter

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I thought it was relevant since they are both on the subject of his death.

I sounded more like you were trying to get people to believe I was talking about cremation a year ago.

I was wrong to say "I know that you personally believed that he was buried at sea" as after finding that topic I realised you didn't specifically say that. I didn't delete it before I posted, my bad. If you want to edit it I don't mind. The part I was more concerned about was that you seemed to be considering the media reports as a likely occurence. This is the holding of your Government to high standards that I mentioned before. It's what they should have done, but people are not known for doing the right thing much less what they should have done.

I would recommend you begin practicing withholding judgements for a while. You have a bad habit of always wanting to come up with a conclusion.

I don't make my decisions based on what people tell me. Otherwise, I'd be another advocate of the Rock Hyrax.

Your behaviour says otherwise.

I didn't accuse you of arguing, only treating people with what I percieved as derision. To be honest after I posted that I regretted it, It will only detract from the discussion.

The above is one of the reasons I do not regard you as a thinker and consequently do not believe you are ready to understand the process of skepticism.

Humour me. I'm here to learn.

Lesson 1: Behaviour is often a truer indicator of mindset than claims.

As I said, never mind. I'm out.

Edited by aquatus1

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I do hate. I hate Osama Bin Laden, for being the leader of an organization that criminally attacked the US civilian population. I in no way hate Muslims just for being Muslim. I work with dozens of people from China, Vietnam, India, Pakistan and Israel every day and I don't feel like attacking any of them at any time, because of their ethnicity, religion or nationality.

....

I'm not going to live my life based off other peoples cultural beleifs and a bunch of "What If"s.

Lol you roller coastered me in that post diechecker... I agree and disagree about every other sentence.

I post as much for Entertainment as to try to Learn or Teach.

I feel we are better than that diechecker. I feel we can win a war and act honorably. We can kill without martyrdom ... we can be brutal when its necessary and respect those not involved in battle and killing. Quite giving them reasons when you know we are better than that. We are not who they paint us to be yet you want us to act exactly how they expect us to.

That is true. We could take the high road and be Strong and Aggressive, but not disrespectful. But in my mind, I only think we should be respectful to those that deserve respect. OBL did not deserve respect.

Was it when I said I don't want to create more fanatics because that's just smart if your a critical thinker. I thought you to be a skeptic diechecker yet your feeding the fringe with your own words. Your above that. A weak person hides behind fear and hate.

I think that those that would be likely to turn to terrorism due to the abuse of OBL body would jump at any reason to be fanatical anyway. I believe that the vast majority of Muslims would agree he was a crimnal. I do also believe that purposefully desecrating his body would provide a net reduction in terrorist activity, as only the Martyrs would then think to attack the US and think to escape punishment. That was the whole point of hunting him down.

I wonder if the Seal Team member that shot him got the Reward?

I think that's more accurate

when you attack skeptics, you attack science and rationality. think about it.

When have you been a Rational Skeptic Scientist? The Chemtrail thread alone should put you well into the Grasping Believer group.

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Posted (edited)

That theory is almost as lame as Bush did 9-11 so he could invade Iraq :wacko: Bush was a moron that took advantage of 9/11 but he didn't do it.

Maybe not, but he certainly knew it was gonna happen, and who was responsible for it, and for the years of lies thereafter!!

Answer this - WHERE are the supposed weapons of mass destruction that started the invasion of Iraq?

**EDIT**

**Try it without shouting this time.**

Edited by aquatus1

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Posted (edited)

**If you can't post in a civil, adult manner, back away from the keyboard till you can.**

Edited by aquatus1

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burned him, dumped him in the ocean, Who cares hes dead................He's a piece of trash and hes gone! Should have shot to wound and done a public hanging in New York time square

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burned him, dumped him in the ocean, Who cares hes dead................He's a piece of trash and hes gone! Should have shot to wound and done a public hanging in New York time square

There would be a lot of hangings if every provocateur of resistance against U.S. military intervention is addressed. For that is what bin Laden was. It has never been shown that bin Laden played a direct role in the operational planning of 9/11.

Bin Laden himself credited Atta as general of the operation on more than one occasion, himself denying responsibility and made a prediction as far back as 1998 that the U.S. would use him as the bogeyman with which to invade Afghanistan - he was right.

The evidence available suggests bin Laden did not know every specific of the attack. Heck, he tuned into his radio at around 9 a.m. New York time, missing the first WTC plane impact. Hardly the action of someone eagerly awaiting news on success of the attack he had allegedly masterminded for years. No, the evidence is that bin Laden did not know what time it was scheduled.

A legal case never was presented as to bin Laden’s involvement you know. What we have is a propaganda campaign; a politically driven witch hunt, the likes of which should not exist in a civilised world where the rule is “innocent until proven guilty”.

There are too many other points to mention in one post.

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OBL was never indicted by the federal government for any role in 911.

I think the only indictment was out of Texas somewhere, for nonrelated charges.

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OBL was never indicted by the federal government for any role in 911.

I think the only indictment was out of Texas somewhere, for nonrelated charges.

Yes, the U.S. government promised a paper demonstrating bin Laden’s responsibility though it never materialized. The U.K. government released a brief but admitted that it was never intended to form a legal case that would stand up in court.

When the Taliban offered to hand over bin Laden for trial in a neutral country the U.S. refused. That says everything about their priority to bring the 9/11 perpetrators to justice, next to the longstanding agenda of regime change in Afghanistan.

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OBL was never indicted by the federal government for any role in 911.

I think the only indictment was out of Texas somewhere, for nonrelated charges.

Well, we do appear to have a pretty blatant confession from Usama bin Laden...

Bin Laden's alleged voice claims responsibilities to carry out the attacks were given to 19 men and Moussaoui was not one of them.

"He had no connection at all with Sept. 11," the voice said. "
I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers
and I never assigned brother Zacarias to be with them in that mission.
"

"Since Zacarias Moussaoui was still learning how to fly, he wasn't No. 20 in the group, as your government has claimed," bin Laden continued.

Source

Of course most CTs will claim this tape wasn't genuine. There is always an out. :rolleyes:

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Yeah Boo, one would think with that solid evidence you just delivered, SOME federal prosecutor SOMEWHERE could have come up with an indictment, eh? :ph34r:

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