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nopeda

advanced aliens or ancient humans?

1,829 posts in this topic

Perhaps they were loosely modeled based off of birds?

Nah. They could do birds. Notice they had no prob with the bug. So far the only thing that makes sense is that they were modeled after air vehicles. How the bug is associated with the air vehicles is a fun question. I wonder if it could have been used for communication somehow.

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Are you still trying to pretend there is no mention of xts in ancient texts? There are lots of references to them and their flying vehicles in Indian texts thousands of years old, and it's very common knowledge that there are:

Why do you have to rely on sites like crystal links then? That is a dodgy website that is about as accurate as Zechariah Stitchin. Why is this information not with the likes of Berkely, and again I ask, if these clear cut instructions are so valuable, then why have they not been used? Why has private enterprise not cashed in on this wonder?

Why? Because it is BS. Man tells stories, it continues to astound me how a group if people can continue to misunderstand the massive differences between fiction and fact.

What you have covered below with all those links is basically one subject from two angles isn't it. That failed The Abydos temple helicopter (you really should do a search here before posting such nonsense, it has been debunked on this very site already) and the fabled Vimanas.

What you failed to mention is the these "blueprints" come from a document dated no earlier than 1904. Not very ancient that is it, but people say this document describes the Vimenas in detail and provide blueprints. Shame they are nonsense though as the aeronautics simply do not work. Leonardo Da Vinci was closer to powered flight by a long shot.

Here is a question for you, why did the ancients need these flying machines? In the earliest Yuga (epoch), the text claims that people could fly without the use of vimanas. When did these ancients become dependant on machines and why?

====================================================================

There are reference to flying machines in the temple carvings and in the ancient writings.

The images found on the ceiling beams of a 3000-year old New Kingdom Temple, located several hundred miles south of Cairo and the Giza Plateau, at Abydos resembles modern day Aircrafts.

Reference to ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources, many are the well known ancient Indian Epics, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old sanskrit.

It is claimed that a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships!

Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti-gravitational" and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power of the ego existing in man’s physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull."

. . .

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/esp_vimanas_9.htm

I do not think you could have started with a worse example that The Abydos temple helicopter so thank you for making this debate easy for me. It is more than well known that this so called helicopter is the result of palimpsest not ancient aliens.

LINK - The answers from the specialists

A short time later, I got a mail from Mike Dyall-Smith from the University of Melbourne : "We dealt with this on the AEL discussion list over a year ago. There is a much more mundane explanation (that is historically interesting in itself). These pictures have gained some notoriety because they have been promoted by "new-age or ufo buffs ". Egyptologists easily recognize that the apparent strange craft are just illusions produced by:

a) erosion of the stone surface (look at the damage over that roof area!)

B) a process of re-carving and filling in the stone to replace some of the hieroglyphs. When the filling falls out bits of the old and new glyphs overlap and form 'strange signs'. The technical term used is 'palimpsest'.

Anyone well versed in egyptological inscriptions would tell you lots of recarving of inscriptions went on in ancient Egypt as ruling kings sought to acquire the work of previous pharaohs, or to discredit them. Regards, Mike Dyall-Smith"

Almost simultaneously, I received a very nice message from Ms. Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, from the University of Alabama at Birmingham (USA). Ms. Griffis-Greenberg is also a member of the American Research Center in Egypt and of the International Association of Egyptologists "Special Studies":

":..., I am afraid that you have been subjected to the famous "Abydos helicopter" mania, here. There is a simple explanation to what you are seeing, at least, as we see it in Egyptology. There is no mystery here; it's just a _palimpsest_ (though without the use of that term, and which is defined as "... A manuscript, typically of papyrus or parchment, that has been written on more than once, with the earlier writing incompletely erased and often legible" AHED). It was decided in antiquity to replace the five-fold royal titulary of Seti I with that of his son and successor, Ramesses II. In the photos, we clearly see "Who repulses the Nine Bows," which figures in some of the Two-Ladies names of Seti I, replaced by "Who protects Egypt and overthrows the foreign countries," a Two-Ladies name of Ramesses II. With some of the plaster that once covered Seti I's titulary now fallen away, certain of the superimposed signs do indeed look like a submarine, etc., but it's just a coincidence.

The strange hieroglyphs are the result of a recutting of the texts - the original signs were covered in plaster, and new ones cut into the surface. This plaster has now fallen out, leaving images that look rather like modern items!

Local guides make up all kinds of mysteries about them, but there is a very simple explanation!

Aidan Dodson

University of Bristol

Unfortunately I cannot see your glyphs but I know them (have seen them atAbydos), but I will let others take care of this, people who have time. They are cut over glyphs, if I recall correctly, nothing of the UFO.

Susan Tower Hollis

Center Director/Associate Dean

Central New York Center, SUNY ESC

What appears to be a "helicopter" is actually an example of two groups of hieroglyphs carved one on top of the other. The words psd.t "the ennead of nine" and X3s.wt "foreign countries" seems to have been carved one of top of the other. Clearly the artist / craftsman changed the hieroglyphs (perhaps from the change of kings Sety I to Ramesses II). The actual "helicopter" seems to be a portion of the psd.t sign and the X3s.t sign on top of each other with portions erased.

Hope this helps.

Eugene Cruz-Uribe

Associate Dean

College of Social and Behavioral Sciences

Northern Arizona University

I did not receive any "examples" of the supposed strange hieroglyphs appended to your inquiry. I can assure you that the Abydos temple has been intensely studied, copied and published and no unusual hieroglyphs are known, only unlearned interpretations perhaps misconstrue what is being shown.

Barbara Lesko

Brown University

I am very sorry, but there is no helicopter or whatever in Seti I's temple at Abydos! As I said then, I can say again: it is a perfectly clear case of an ancient correction of a text which may now to a non-Egyptologist look like a helicopter. It is very common in tombs and temples that the original hieroglyphs were changed and then the first text covered by some kind of paste which has now disappeared so we can see part of the first text below the newer one.

Tine Bagh

Carsten Niebuhr Institute

University of Copenhagen

====================================================================

Nearly every Hindu and Buddhist in the world - hundreds of millions of people has heard of the ancient flying machines referred to in the Ramayana and other texts as vimanas.

Vimanas are mentioned even today in standard Indian literature and media reports. An article called “Flight Path” by the Indian journalist Mukul Sharma appeared in the major newspaper The Times of India on April 8, 1999 which talked about vimanas and ancient warfare: according to some interpretations of surviving texts, India’s future it seems happened way back in the past. Take the case of the Yantra Sarvasva, said to have been written by the sage Maharshi Bhardwaj.

This consists of as many as 40 sections of which one, the Vaimanika Prakarana dealing with aeronautics, has 8 chapters, a hundred topics and 500 sutras.

In it Bhardwaj describes vimana, or aerial aircrafts, as being of three classes:

1. those that travel from place to place;

2. those that travel from one country to another;

3. those that travel between planets.

. . .

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/esp_vimanas_4.htm

====================================================================

The Rg Veda, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, and the Puranas are some of the ancient Indian texts written in sanskrit. These texts give suprisingly detailed accounts of airships called vimanas. Detailed descriptions of the ships construction is given by using words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles. The texts include details on anti-gravity, invisibility, photography, weapons and inter-planetary travel.

. . .

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/ancientman/03_vimana.html

====================================================================

glyph pics

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html

====================================================================

Indian Space & Flight (Aircraft) Technology is one of the oldest and far Advanced than the Present; in our Ancient Epics the Flight (Aircraft) has been referred as “Vimana” which has varied meaning depending upon our understanding.

A Vimana is a Mythological Flying Machine, described in the Ancient Mythology of India. References to these Flying Machines are commonplace in Ancient Indian Texts, even describing their use in Warfare. As well as being able to Fly within Earth’s Atmosphere, Vimanas were also said to be able to Travel into Space and Travel Submerged Underwater.

. . .

http://udayabhaaskarbulusu.wordpress.com/the-ancient-indian-civilization-culture-science-technology-and-management/10-space-flight-technology/

====================================================================

The Samarangana Sutradhara even describes take-off procedures, type of landings, collusions, the various types of aircraft, as well as advantages and disadvantages of the different types of aircraft, how to scout enemy aircraft without being detected, and even describes power sources. Some of these texts even include how to BUILD the aircraft.

. . .

https://www.forbiddenhistory.info/?q=node/75

====================================================================

Now the Vimana

Sanskrit vi-māna literally means "measuring out, traversing" or "having been measured out".

Vimana are described in Indian epic poetry right? The actual pictures of the "bueprints" as some like to call the drawings come from the Vymanika Shastra which has been dated back to an ancient 1904, and was attained by way of mental channeling hasn't it. Other texts are descriptions are they not?

Vaimanika_Shastra_title_page.jpg

LINK - A CRITICAL STUDY OF THE WORK “VYMANIKA SHASTRA”

1.1ORIGIN

A book titled “Brihad Vimana Shastra” by Shri Bramhamuni Parivrajaka was published in the year 1959 [1]. It contains verses in Sanskrit (describing aircraft) with their Hindi translation.

Recently, another book titled “Vymanika Shastra” by Shri G.R. Josyer has appeared [2], which contains the same Sanskrit verses with their English translation. One notable feature of this English version is that it contains drawings of some crafts too, something not to be found in the Hindi version.

Also, the English work by Josyer makes no mention whatsoever of the earlier work in Hindi.

Our main concern in this report will be with the above two works.

These books contain verses which, according to their texts, are supposed to form only part (about § Departmental of Aeronautical Engineering §§ Department of Mechanical Engineering a fortieth) of “Yantra Sarvaswa” by sage Bharadwaja, which is devoted to a summary of the work on vimana vigyana by a number of other sages and is said to be for the benefit of all mankind.

And about the Mahabharata's references to flying elephants? Now that's interesting isn't it. We thought flying pigs was quite a chuckle, what does a flying elephant look like?

I assume that you are referring to Rigveda? The Rigveda does not mention Vimanas, but verses RV 1.164.47-48 have been bandied as evidence for the idea of "mechanical birds":

47. kṛṣṇáṃ niyânaṃ hárayaḥ suparṇâ / apó vásānā dívam út patanti tá âvavṛtran sádanād ṛtásyâd / íd ghṛténa pṛthivî vy ùdyate 48. dvâdaśa pradháyaś cakrám ékaṃ / trîṇi nábhyāni ká u tác ciketa tásmin sākáṃ triśatâ ná śaṅkávo / 'rpitâḥ ṣaṣṭír ná calācalâsaḥ "

Dark the descent: the birds are golden-coloured; up to the heaven they fly robed in the waters. Again descend they from the seat of Order, and all the earth is moistened with their fatness." "Twelve are the fellies, and the wheel is single; three are the naves. What man hath understood it? Therein are set together spokes three hundred and sixty, which in nowise can be loosened."

Hrrmmz, yes, clear as mud!

Chariots flown by gods are not unique to Indian mythology: the Greek god Apollo flies the Sun Chariot; Kay Kavus, the mythological Persian king steers a flying throne to China; and Thor, of the Norse tradition, commandeers the Chariot of Thunder. Why is it do your suppose that nobody has considered attempting to folow the directions? You know, that should be an easy answer for most people, but I feel your preconceptions blind you to any possibility other than aliens. Its a massive leap of faith which you must take on your own. I feel few would follow you into such a pit of uncertainty.

:lol: But I guess a bunch of text means nothing to you, since you don't seem to believe people can learn new concepts in any ways other than learning about them in movies.

Ignorance and superstition is not the exclusive domain of fundamental christians. The information you have provided is simply not sufficient to bridge the gap between wishful thinking and reality. What you have exposed is how you have built these bridges for yourself, but they remain unable to support the burden of proof. I find your outlook zealous at best. I mean for goodness sakes, quoting Stitchins nonsense and self interpreting texts? Who do you suppose that will actually convince?

Just for kicks, just how many of these "gods" do you think there were? Scrap that actually, you are boring me now. I will stick with Abitran. He can at at least hold a decent two way conversation and does not lower himself to Stitchins references to support his position. Right now, your's could no be much shakier.

Edited by psyche101

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To do what, and where did you get the suns with which to do your experiment(s)? If you didn't do the experiment(s) yourself, be sure to let us know who did them and when, and of course how they were done. Also where, since it's hard to believe they took place on Earth without it becoming common knowledge or killing every living thing on the planet...whichever would come first.

You still have not familiarised yourself with E=MC2 have you? Do you know the link between E=MC2 and nuclear weaponry? Do you know what happened in Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

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So what is the max velocity you think any beings in the universe have been able to obtain, and what do you think that velocity is relative to?

The maximum velocity for matter is the speed of light. Beings cannot obtain this. Mass cannot attain this. Massless particles can only. Mans theoretical limit is 99.9% of c, but attaining that would be an impressive feat indeed. If man could attain 8-10% the speed of light interstellar travel may become a viable option, but not two way travel in cases. It all depends on wether things like time dilation are acceptable parameters to the travelers doesn't it.

I have answered the "relative to" question about three times now, I simply refuse to do so again. Go back and read my posts. Why do you keep asking the same question when people keep answering it for you?

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It's considering possibilities regarding descriptions and drawings by people in the past, rather than not. You would have to move up to even begin. You don't like having that pointed out, but it's the way it is and always will be unless you eventually move on to more open minded thinking. You think small. That's not an insult but just pointing out one of your characteristics.

Yes it is an insult, lets nopt get into characteristics, I think the ones that describe you are banned.

So you are saying because the writings you have contain pictures, which by the way do not work, that it is a genuine document? Interesting. I guess little golden books are also factual studies?

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The maximum velocity for matter is the speed of light. Beings cannot obtain this. Mass cannot attain this. Massless particles can only. Mans theoretical limit is 99.9% of c, but attaining that would be an impressive feat indeed. If man could attain 8-10% the speed of light interstellar travel may become a viable option, but not two way travel in cases. It all depends on wether things like time dilation are acceptable parameters to the travelers doesn't it.

I have answered the "relative to" question about three times now, I simply refuse to do so again. Go back and read my posts. Why do you keep asking the same question when people keep answering it for you?

Who knows what the Speed limits really are out there? Maybe we should just pull up a chair and wait until a really advanced race of creatures or Beings come and show us how its Done.

This in many ways will allow us to veg-out and work out our problems on earth and our own kind,This is very important dur to they will never land and meet us until we pass the exam-test thats been filed away somewhere in a dark lower level of some Governmant base buried out in the Desert of Nevada ! No doubt ! LoL. Well It will give me time to Cook some Great B.B.Q for the next Trillion years ! :innocent:

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You need to provide some reason to believe Q is said specifically to have survived at least one expansion and contraction cylce of the universe before I can accept your claim as an example. Also, you need to provide an example of a movie that's over 37 years old describing the concept of the universe going through cycles of expansion and contraction before we can try to pretend that I first learned of that very popular concept from some movie. You have done nothing other than present a supposed example that is not nearly old enough for one thing, and so far there's no reason for me to believe it has anything to do with cycling of the universe for another.

Q is omnipotent. He exists in all space an all time. Google should have told you that. Why does it have to be a movie? Books also contain the references and you have not proven in any way that you spouted this nonsense 37 years ago. When you can do that, get back to me. You word is a long way from what I consider gospel.

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I'm trying to think of how a position could be more narrow minded than his but can't think of anything that would be.

I can show you a far more narrow minded position easily.

mirror-1534.jpg

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How should they be interpreted and how do you know?

I would guess that he would know they are being interpreted incorrectly because the "detailed instructions" on how to build a flying machine with Anti Grav motors does not work, and the aerodynamics are nonsense.

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Conversely I would ask why humans building structures themselves couldn't be correct? As I said, there is a fairly good indication that ancient cultures progressed at a reasonable technological rate. There are no unexplainable leaps of technology present in any ancient culture that I have ever been made aware of.

Not only that but these so called Gods were quite fond of metals in the writings. All the machines are made out of metals yet the only actual surviving structures are made from rocks.

Why aliens would come all this way to carve a few rocks and leave some plans that do not work is the question I think. The writings clearly state metals and quicksilver. Which by the way was very popular with earl Indian science. LINK - Indian Chemistry Through The Ages

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It depends on how you interpret it. If you interpret it that they can make vehicles that are capable of capturing and using all the electromagnetic radiation that comes in contact with them then in that sense they are harnessing a good bit of it. What movie is that from?

This seems to be more like your own interpretation than anyone else's, I did always say you were using popular plots to create your own tale. And your personal interpretations here are not unexpected. Its just yet another wild claim with absolutely no supporting information.

What does this have to do with being at the peak of our technology like you asked?

And even so you still believe there could be no beings in any of those systems that are good at space travel. Hmmm...

Not within a reasonable distance at the very least. If you want to find someone I have little doubt that if one does, it will be a one way trip. What does that have to do with anything, you reckon the powers of thousands of suns can be harnessed. That was the discussion. Communications are more logical, sensible, safer and cost minimal resources for crossing space.

Why have you changed the nature of the questions you originally asked?

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We know humans built plenty of structures. What's in question is if xts either built any or helped humans build any. I've never believed that the speed of light in vacuum just happens to be as fast as anything can go, especially since no one can give an acceptable explanation as to relative to what. I believe evolution has occurred naturally plenty of times. What's in question is whether or not xts have influenced any of it. We know humans have.

You have been given what the speed of light is relative to many times, I even left you a link. It is only your fault if you refuse to read links or posts. And in doing so, such does not make your idea correct.

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Who knows what the Speed limits really are out there? Maybe we should just pull up a chair and wait until a really advanced race of creatures or Beings come and show us how its Done.

Sorry D, I am not that patient, when Aliens arrive here, I doubt even my great great grandkiddies will see that. This thread will not still be active then. But I can point you at a bloke who can confirm the speed of light, and they built bombs that Sky knows all about based upon those very principals. I also keep putting up a link to LISA every few months, not to be confused with SALLY, which is as we speak, is yet again reinforcing that the great man is right. - LISA

This is the bloke I speak of, I suggest if FTL is possible that we consult his works first as they have a decent track record to date.

einstein.jpg

There you go, an advanced intelligent example. ;)

This in many ways will allow us to veg-out and work out our problems on earth and our own kind,This is very important dur to they will never land and meet us until we pass the exam-test thats been filed away somewhere in a dark lower level of some Governmant base buried out in the Desert of Nevada ! No doubt ! LoL. Well It will give me time to Cook some Great B.B.Q for the next Trillion years ! :innocent:

But what fun is that in an Internet forum! I suspect they will not land for a long time, I think it would not be "very advanced" to not call ahead. I mean, what if they do not like ribs, and snags are a delicacy? What if they worship ribs as Gods? How can one be prepared for such an eventuality! Remember, the telephone crossed space before rockets with people did.

And the Alien in 51 is just bent on smoking weed and spends all his time on the phone to the movie producers. The Chillie Peppers told us so!

I know they are out there, but it's a bit like Texas, if one does not have the ability to get there, one must rely on communications to hear how great it is. One day, when enough resources are gathered, one will attempt the trip, but until that "way" becomes apparent, it remains but a hope. No matter how badly one wants such immediately, one has to wait. That's just life. I suspect we might get a visit one day, but I would expect a phone call first at the very least.

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Yes it is an insult, lets nopt get into characteristics, I think the ones that describe you are banned.

So you are saying because the writings you have contain pictures, which by the way do not work, that it is a genuine document? Interesting. I guess little golden books are also factual studies?

According to his logic, that is correct. :tu:

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According to his logic, that is correct. :tu:

I definitely had to double check that one, that anyone would even make such a claim is beyond belief.

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I definitely had to double check that one, that anyone would even make such a claim is beyond belief.

I think he feels only old text is to be taken as complete fact. We all know that there were not any stories made up thousands of years ago. :rolleyes:

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Maybe you think they emailed diagrams to each other so they could make similar things like pyramids and make up similar stories about beings coming down from the sky, just to try to fool people in the future. Why would they though? And do you really think they had email back then? Or do you think they had some other way(s) of getting in touch with each other to set up the gag?

Are you now denying that the pyramid is basic geometry? You believe aliens built all the pyramids in the world? You are a delusional being. Each culture also has stories about "the boogey man" who is a hairy man-like beast in the woods. It doesn't mean it is true. There are not real dragons. There are not any leprechauns. There are not any cyclops. Ther are not any griffins. There are not any acient aliens. All of these have some ancient stories, but all of these are make believe.

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Q is omnipotent. He exists in all space an all time. Google should have told you that. Why does it have to be a movie?

nopeda, on 10 April 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

You need to provide some reason to believe Q is said specifically to have survived at least one expansion and contraction cylce of the universe before I can accept your claim as an example. Also, you need to provide an example of a movie that's over 37 years old describing the concept of the universe going through cycles of expansion and contraction before we can try to pretend that I first learned of that very popular concept from some movie. You have done nothing other than present a supposed example that is not nearly old enough for one thing, and so far there's no reason for me to believe it has anything to do with cycling of the universe for another.

Books also contain the references and you have not proven in any way that you spouted this nonsense 37 years ago. When you can do that, get back to me. You word is a long way from what I consider gospel.

You're the one who said I learned the concept from a movie, not me. I said I believe I learned it from my dad. Apparently you didn't learn it from a movie either since you can't even give an example of a movie that includes it. You apparently learned it from me, and it makes you feel lame because I was thinking about it 37 years before you ever heard about it. :lol: It's hilarious that you want me to prove when I learned about it. We discussed it in my high school, but I guess you can't comprehend something like that. Even though you can't, this will tell anyone who can how common a theory it is:

http://is.gd/gkmo4L

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B) a process of re-carving and filling in the stone to replace some of the hieroglyphs. When the filling falls out bits of the old and new glyphs overlap and form 'strange signs'. The technical term used is 'palimpsest'.

. . .

The actual pictures of the "bueprints" as some like to call the drawings come from the Vymanika Shastra which has been dated back to an ancient 1904

I believe your attempt to explain the air vehicles is lame bullsh*t in regards to the pics I referred to, and if you believe it yourself it doesn't say much for you.

So far I believe there are descriptions of flying vehicles in ancient Indian texts, but if there are none then you should be able to find a quote of a respectable person saying so since other people say that there are. They say there are a LOT of them, so if they're lying then you should be able to quote several respectable people who are saying that they're lying. If you can't, then you have nothing worth thinking about.

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The maximum velocity for matter is the speed of light.

Relative to what?

I have answered the "relative to" question

No one has. Someone said to your frame of reference, but that doesn't really mean anything especially in regards to whatever other frames of reference. Do you think YOUR frame is at rest and all others are in motion, or what? And even if so, that doesn't mean light emitted from your frame doesn't have a higher combined velocity with things it impacts in frames of reference that are moving toward it, and slower for things moving away. That's what causes red and blue shifting imo.

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You think small. That's not an insult but just pointing out one of your characteristics.

Yes it is an insult, lets nopt get into characteristics, I think the ones that describe you are banned.

:lol:

So you are saying because the writings you have contain pictures

The pic I referred to has depictions of air vehicles imo, put there to represent things people saw that looked like that. So what do you think the things they saw that looked like that were, if not air vehicles? And don't say birds, or cows...

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I believe your attempt to explain the air vehicles is lame bullsh*t in regards to the pics I referred to, and if you believe it yourself it doesn't say much for you.

I believe all of your attempts to dodge questions are lame bullsh*t. So what?

At least others will concede that there may be many other inspirations for the carvings or writings you refer to. However, you stand solid in your silly beliefs. If fact, you present your wild theories as fact.

Who's closed minded?

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Who knows what the Speed limits really are out there? Maybe we should just pull up a chair and wait until a really advanced race of creatures or Beings come and show us how its Done.

This in many ways will allow us to veg-out and work out our problems on earth and our own kind,This is very important dur to they will never land and meet us until we pass the exam-test

If it's for real then it appears they're doing things in stages, setting things in motion and then letting us adjust. We would need to be to a certain point before it would be practical for them to introduce us to the galactic civilizations. Who knows how close or far we are from being what they consider ready. People being hostile about the idea probably doesn't help speed things up any, and people strongly arguing that they could not have been here etc couldn't help any either.

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:lol:

The pic I referred to has depictions of air vehicles imo, put there to represent things people saw that looked like that. So what do you think the things they saw that looked like that were, if not air vehicles? And don't say birds, or cows...

So birds or cows are not more reasonable that spaceships?

:wacko:

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If it's for real then it appears they're doing things in stages, setting things in motion and then letting us adjust. We would need to be to a certain point before it would be practical for them to introduce us to the galactic civilizations. Who knows how close or far we are from being what they consider ready. People being hostile about the idea probably doesn't help speed things up any, and people strongly arguing that they could not have been here etc couldn't help any either.

The aliens are on this message board?

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