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SamDavies

Rabbi's Weiss view of Zoinism

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Right... right... that's why during the 1948 war, its battles was fought largely on land alotted to the Palestinians by the UN? That's why most the casualties experienced by the Zionist Jews were on the land alotted to the Palestinians by the UN?

In other words, most of the fighting before and during the 1948 war was on Palestinian home turf.

I am sick of these Zionist propagandist lies. Have you ever done any research on "Plan Dalet"?

Lies? You're saying Israel did not have to fight against multiple Arab enemies in 48, 67 and 73? You are saying that the Palestinians want to recognize a JEWISH state in Palestine and will live in peace alongside it? Do they BJ? Have the Palestinians shown even ONE proposal that concedes the existence of a state of Jewish character in Palestine? I guess the anti semitic lessons and poems and tirades taught to their kindergartners is okay because Israel is an occupier? The situation is disgusting and tiresome - go peddle it somewhere else man.

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Lies? You're saying Israel did not have to fight against multiple Arab enemies in 48, 67 and 73? You are saying that the Palestinians want to recognize a JEWISH state in Palestine and will live in peace alongside it? Do they BJ? Have the Palestinians shown even ONE proposal that concedes the existence of a state of Jewish character in Palestine? I guess the anti semitic lessons and poems and tirades taught to their kindergartners is okay because Israel is an occupier? The situation is disgusting and tiresome - go peddle it somewhere else man.

You did not hear a damn thing I said. The fighting just before the 1948 war and the war itself occurred mostly on the land that the UN gave to the Palestinians exclusively.

The biggest obstacles of peace between Israel and the Palestinians is the occupation of the West Bank, the siege of Gaza, and the illegal settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem. I will also add, there should be compensation for the loss of homes and lands paid towards the Palestinians and repatriation of the Palestinian refugees as written in the UN resolution 194.

The Palestinians want a viable independent state. They don't want Zionist occupation and Zionist colonization.

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You did not hear a damn thing I said. The fighting just before the 1948 war and the war itself occurred mostly on the land that the UN gave to the Palestinians exclusively.

The biggest obstacles of peace between Israel and the Palestinians is the occupation of the West Bank, the siege of Gaza, and the illegal settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem. I will also add, there should be compensation for the loss of homes and lands paid towards the Palestinians and repatriation of the Palestinian refugees as written in the UN resolution 194.

The Palestinians want a viable independent state. They don't want Zionist occupation and Zionist colonization.

They don't want a state of Jewish character in their midst because they hate Jews. They state at every opportunity as loudly as they can and teach their children this. Do you deny it?

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I suppose the Jews of Europe were similarly gushing in their praise of Germany in the time of the second world war.

Br Cornelius

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I suppose the Jews of Europe were similarly gushing in their praise of Germany in the time of the second world war.

Br Cornelius

What an odd thing to say. But I note that you do not speak to the substance, just redirect.

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Posted (edited)

What an odd thing to say. But I note that you do not speak to the substance, just redirect.

The substance is that a people who have had their lives stolen by an occupier should not be expected to be happy about the presence of their oppressor and should not be expected to be gushing in their praise for an occupier who daily kills their citizens.

To answer my point about the relative death toll on both sides Palestinians:Israelies 5:1 since 1987. This only accounts for the direct deaths, and leaves out the indirect deaths caused by the embargo on importation of essential medical and other supplies.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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The substance is that a people who have had their lives stolen by an occupier should not be expected to be happy about the presence of their oppressor.

Br Cornelius

I assume you mean that it is acceptable for the Palestinians to teach their children to hate and want to destroy Jews by dehumanizing them - the descendants of apes and swine?

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I assume you mean that it is acceptable for the Palestinians to teach their children to hate and want to destroy Jews by dehumanizing them - the descendants of apes and swine?

I am simply pointing out that its hardly surprising. I would also like to point out that the Zionists are guilty of much the same demonizing of the Palestinians.

There is overt racism on both sides of the wall.

Br Cornelius

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I am simply pointing out that its hardly surprising. I would also like to point out that the Zionists are guilty of much the same demonizing of the Palestinians.

There is overt racism on both sides of the wall.

Br Cornelius

I rarely provide documentation here because I mostly just state my opinions. So I rarely ASK for documentation as a nod to fairness. But if you don't mind, I sincerely would like to see any examples you might have of systematic Jewish indoctrination of their children on the order of what happens in Palestine. There is a media watchdog called Palestinian Media Watch (I think that is the title) which regularly displays examples of the rhetoric I am speaking of. My point here is that if peace is the object and the Palestinians really want to pursue it then teaching their kindergartners to think of Jews as sub human isn't a good start. The Israelis want ALL the land. The Palestinians want ALL the land. The difference is that the Israelis are willing to give up on some of it to have peace. The Palestinians are led by persons whose very existence depends on continued warfare and struggle. If Abbas or Haniyeh were to shake hands with Netanyahu and conclude a deal where Jerusalem were "shared" and limited or no, right of return was the price for most - or even all - of the West Bank, they would be slaughtered within weeks or months. Sadat and Rabin would tell you about the extremists if they could. I'm amazed that Hussein of Jordan has survived.

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Posted (edited)

I rarely provide documentation here because I mostly just state my opinions. So I rarely ASK for documentation as a nod to fairness. But if you don't mind, I sincerely would like to see any examples you might have of systematic Jewish indoctrination of their children on the order of what happens in Palestine. There is a media watchdog called Palestinian Media Watch (I think that is the title) which regularly displays examples of the rhetoric I am speaking of. My point here is that if peace is the object and the Palestinians really want to pursue it then teaching their kindergartners to think of Jews as sub human isn't a good start. The Israelis want ALL the land. The Palestinians want ALL the land. The difference is that the Israelis are willing to give up on some of it to have peace. The Palestinians are led by persons whose very existence depends on continued warfare and struggle. If Abbas or Haniyeh were to shake hands with Netanyahu and conclude a deal where Jerusalem were "shared" and limited or no, right of return was the price for most - or even all - of the West Bank, they would be slaughtered within weeks or months. Sadat and Rabin would tell you about the extremists if they could. I'm amazed that Hussein of Jordan has survived.

I could point you to any number of sites where Zionist political leaders have openly expressed racist viewpoints about the Palestinians, but I doubt you would accept them.

I have also been to Israel and seen the way that the Israeli police/military treated the Palestinians across Jerusalem. Rascism, hatred and dehumanizing language are used on both sides of the divide - FACT.

I really think you are blind to the reality of what Zionism has set out to achieve and how they view the Arab nations. They have never really been honest in their acceptance of a two state solution and have used land grabs as both a justification for not engaging and a means to achieve their greater objective of achieving a Greater Israel which contains all of the Palestinian lands.

Just as the Palestinians and their neighbours have never accepted the legitamacy of Israel, neither have the Zionists ever really accepted the legitimacy of their alloted UN boundaries and they have done everything in their power over the last 60years to extend beyond them.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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They don't want a state of Jewish character in their midst because they hate Jews. They state at every opportunity as loudly as they can and teach their children this. Do you deny it?

Um, the Palestinians were dispossessed of land, farms, and homes. They are an occupied people for 46 years now. Their lands and freedoms shrink everyday in the occupied territories with Bantustan existances. Gaza lies under siege. The West Bank has literally 100s of checkpoints and roadblocks. They live under Israeli military law. The settlers are setting up outposts on their farms. Israel is building whole thriving cities (settlements) on all their hilltops. And Israel has the audacity to build Jew-only roads throughout the occupied Palestinian territories.

The message Israel is putting out is that it is there to stay. ERETZ ISRAHELL!

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Um, the Palestinians were dispossessed of land, farms, and homes. They are an occupied people for 46 years now. Their lands and freedoms shrink everyday in the occupied territories with Bantustan existances. Gaza lies under siege. The West Bank has literally 100s of checkpoints and roadblocks. They live under Israeli military law. The settlers are setting up outposts on their farms. Israel is building whole thriving cities (settlements) on all their hilltops. And Israel has the audacity to build Jew-only roads throughout the occupied Palestinian territories.

The message Israel is putting out is that it is there to stay. ERETZ ISRAHELL!

So you acknowledge it. That is progress. BJ the hate will never conquer Israel and Israel will never get away with the injustices they commit. Making it an obsession in your life is useless.

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The (Zionist) Jews have some very nasty terms for anyone outside of their faith, essentially seeing any non-zionist as little more than an animal. They use this mentality to justify treating others (in the middle-east) very inhumanely.

Admittedly, I am talking out of my a** as I haven't verified these facts yet. I've heard that even in popular media like Seinfield, (which very obviously has Jewish elements,) there are episodes where some very derogatory Jewish terms are used to describe female characters...

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{......sigh.......}

I am a proud Christian Zionist. I believe the Jews have an inherent right to the land the world "gave" them. What's more I think they are due and will possess much more of the land upon which their rabid neighbors sit. They will possess it after they win the next war they are forced into. They are God's chosen and His word will stand where they are concerned. Those who try to interfere with this will find themselves in direct conflict with God. Israel possess the land and will never, ever be removed from it again.

Have a fine day Sam...

These are very elitist statements...very "I'm better than you because God said so!"

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These are very elitist statements...very "I'm better than you because God said so!"

Talk like that from people like AND THEN is the primary reason why people like AND THEM are hated - and I am not mincing my words here - HATED by the majority of the rest of the world.

Religious elitism of whatever colour is repugnant and vile to anyone with a sane mind.

Br Cornelius

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These are very elitist statements...very "I'm better than you because God said so!"

The "I'm" is rhetorical I hope... I have no where said I personally am better than anyone. I also do not subscribe to the notion that Jews are in any way superior to other human beings, far from it. Those who have actually read what I say will understand this. Those who simply want to bang a drum and hate will do so. As a rule, I have found that those who hate the "elite" do so because they either are in rebellion against the God of the Bible or simply do not believe in the Creator. No harm, no foul. God chose the tribes of Israel, Jacob's descendants, to fulfill a purpose for Him. They have been fully rebellious for millennia (as have all other humans) and they have been repeatedly punished for their rebellion. Hardly a pleasant position to be in. Those who have a problem with the Creator ought best to take that up with Him...I only believe the words He gave.

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The "I'm" is rhetorical I hope... I have no where said I personally am better than anyone. I also do not subscribe to the notion that Jews are in any way superior to other human beings, far from it. Those who have actually read what I say will understand this. Those who simply want to bang a drum and hate will do so. As a rule, I have found that those who hate the "elite" do so because they either are in rebellion against the God of the Bible or simply do not believe in the Creator. No harm, no foul. God chose the tribes of Israel, Jacob's descendants, to fulfill a purpose for Him. They have been fully rebellious for millennia (as have all other humans) and they have been repeatedly punished for their rebellion. Hardly a pleasant position to be in. Those who have a problem with the Creator ought best to take that up with Him...I only believe the words He gave.

And the Jews fulfilled their purpose, but now there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, every tribe and nation is a welcome member of the "Israel Of God".

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Those who have actually read what I say will understand this.

Yeah, pretty sure I did read what you said. I actually went out of my way to track down and quote what you said because of how unbelievable it was.

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Posted (edited)

post-113879-0-66426600-1366331197_thumb.

http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/

What is "The people of Israel" ?

-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.

-It has its own particular, essential, nature.

-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.

-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.

-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.

-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.

-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service

2) What is Zionism ?

-Zionism is a new thing.

-It has only existed for a century.

-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.

- a materialistic worldly nation.

-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.

-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.

- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

From: http://www.jewsnotzi...rg/opposed.html

I know this may not sound kosher to the Zionist cheering section but "The people of Israel" are the real Jews as represented by Rabbi Weiss' sect the Neturei Karta. True Torah Jews like Rabbi Weiss believe that Zionism is an abomination to God's Laws. They would probably agree 100% with real Christians by labeling the Zionists as 'the synagogue of Satan' as written in Rev 3:9:

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

So you see And Then you still may have a chance at salvation!

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN
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post-113879-0-66426600-1366331197_thumb.

http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/

What is "The people of Israel" ?

-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.

-It has its own particular, essential, nature.

-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.

-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.

-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.

-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.

-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service

2) What is Zionism ?

-Zionism is a new thing.

-It has only existed for a century.

-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.

- a materialistic worldly nation.

-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.

-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.

- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

From: http://www.jewsnotzi...rg/opposed.html

I know this may not sound kosher to the Zionist cheering section but "The people of Israel" are the real Jews as represented by Rabbi Weiss' sect the Neturei Karta. True Torah Jews like Rabbi Weiss believe that Zionism is an abomination to God's Laws. They would probably agree 100% with real Christians by labeling the Zionists as 'the synagogue of Satan' as written in Rev 3:9:

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

So you see And Then you still may have a chance at salvation!

There is always a chance.... and thanks for the concern ;)

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The "I'm" is rhetorical I hope... I have no where said I personally am better than anyone. I also do not subscribe to the notion that Jews are in any way superior to other human beings, far from it. Those who have actually read what I say will understand this. Those who simply want to bang a drum and hate will do so. As a rule, I have found that those who hate the "elite" do so because they either are in rebellion against the God of the Bible or simply do not believe in the Creator. No harm, no foul. God chose the tribes of Israel, Jacob's descendants, to fulfill a purpose for Him. They have been fully rebellious for millennia (as have all other humans) and they have been repeatedly punished for their rebellion. Hardly a pleasant position to be in. Those who have a problem with the Creator ought best to take that up with Him...I only believe the words He gave.

But your beliefs are contradictory with the Bible. By this fact alone, why did God even bother to judge and to put the Jews into captivity in the first place, if he was going to raise the state of Israel later?

As you may or may not realize there are plenty of parallels between pre-captive apostate Judah and the apostate state of Israel.

Zionism is just another false god and idol according to the Bible. Zionism directly contradicts God's promises to the Jews (see Deuteronomy 30:1-6 emphasis on verses 2 & 3 in this passage). Zionism actually places Jews above God and his word. So be careful and go read that passage.

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Zionism is easily defined as "We Zionists possess the land sans God, sans the Law of God, and sans the Aaronic priesthood (which remains lost due to Herod burning the geneaologies of the Jews)".

There is not a descendant of Aaron on the face of the Earth to be found today due to thousands of years of mixed marriages and proselytes. But we have a greater High Priest than a descendant of the Levite Aaron, don't we?

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Zionist, most subtle form of racial supremacy, all forms of ZIONISM is racial superemacy , but its only ok for the Jewish community? My bad there are many Jewish groups against Zionism, and war on Israel , i would love to hear that person's opinion. Anyway the PALESTENIANS were were living there for centuries and centuries, it MATTERS NOT what a book says, by that logic you should listen to Hindu claims ,etc ,etc ,etc ,etc ,etc. The world would be in DISARRAY.ISRAEL existed with 12-13 tribes, not just the Jewish people .... i am sick of tired of pro Israeli posts and propaganda, especially by a christian zionist ( two labels doesnt means its any better). Just sounds like your a christian siding with the Jews to hate MUSLIMS, just like the old times :) . Its only a matter of time, and i repeat this. Israel will not last as a country, far to my instablity in the region, in the coming days the land is going no be reclaim and that scripture of yours will be completely proven wrong, like the other thousands of times. Good luck in your racist endeavors tho.

What a bunch of racist claptrap. Firstly, Zionism is simply the right of Israel to exist... which is guaranteed by the UN by the way. Secondly, the term "Palestinians" simply refers to all people living in the area of Palesting, including muslims, Christians, Druzes and yes Jews... who are actually the original residents of the area.

It was Yassir Arafat who invented the label "Palestinians" to refer only to muslim Arabs, in order to de-legitimize all others. A clever semantic trick, and alas it works wonderfully on those low-information opinionators who refuse to do their homework.

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The region of Palestine existed before the state of Israel - and those who lived in it were Palestinians - regardless of faith.

To attempt to write Palestine, and a Palestinian people, out of existence is a futile lost cause.

Br Cornelius

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Firstly, Zionism is simply the right of Israel to exist... which is guaranteed by the UN by the way.

A clever semantic trick, and alas it works wonderfully on those low-information opinionators who refuse to do their homework.

Speaking of semantics! :rolleyes:

Origins and definition of Zionism

The racist characteristics of nationalism can be found in the Zionist ideology and in the State of Israel, a nation state. The word Zionism is used today for the foundational ideology of the Israeli nation state - the claims by which it justifies its existence. However Zionism as a nationalist movement is older than that state: past and present Zionism do not always coincide.

Zionism is a diaspora nationalism of the Jewish people. In a diaspora nationalism, most members of the national group are not resident on the claimed national territory, and the nation state can only be achieved by 'return' migration. Zionism is an unusual nationalism: it is largely the creation of a single individual, Theodor Herzl. He was the first to make a public claim to a Jewish State, and promoted that idea in Europe. His work reflected the general climate of nationalist revival movements in eastern Europe at the time, especially in the Austro-Hungarian empire. It was almost inevitable, that a Jewish movement would identify Jews as 'a people' when all around them Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians, Slovenes, Croats, Serbs, and Hungarians were doing the same. The other historically possible options - a purely religious revival movement, and an emancipation movement - were side-tracked.

Zionism is also unusual because, in the early years, there was no clear idea of the national homeland. There was a clear territorial concentration of Jews in Europe, in what is now Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine and southern Russia. However, except for local concentrations, they were in a minority even in this territory. The idea of a Jewish nation state in eastern Europe was never influential in Zionism. Some of the early plans for Jewish resettlement were not even formally nationalist: they made no claim to a state. Resettlement in a British colony, such as Uganda, was for a time the most serious option. The negotiations came to nothing - but the idea influenced British policy, when Palestine became a British mandate territory, after the First World War.

By the time of the Balfour Declaration, Zionism was a standard nationalist movement. Zionists claimed to speak on behalf of a people, the Jewish people. They claimed a nation state for that people in Palestine, on the grounds that it was the historic homeland of the Jewish people. The 'Jewish people' for almost all Zionists was (and is) an ethno-national group - and not a religious community. A minority of religious Jews still opposes Zionism for religious reasons.

Zionism in the State of Israel

When the State of Israel came into existence, it included a mainly Arab minority, now about one million people. Historically Zionism has never recognised any 'national minority' within the nation, the status of (for instance) the Frisians within the modern Dutch nation. For Zionists, the Jewish people is the Jewish nation: Zionism is a mono-ethnic nationalism comparable to Irish nationalism. The present State of Israel generally has the constitutional structure of a secular nation state. It has conceded citizenship to the 'Israeli Arabs', although many will identify themselves as 'Palestinians'. However there is no tradition in Zionism which sees this group ('Arabs' or 'Palestinians') as a constituent minority of the Jewish people. Although many Zionists claimed the territory where Yasir Arafat lived, no Zionist ever saw him as a Jew.

There is also no nationalist movement to establish a bi-national state on the former mandate territory of Palestine. Zionism is not such a movement, and the State of Israel does not claim to be a bi-national state. In this respect, Zionism is comparable to Czech nationalism or Slovak nationalism - not to Czechoslovak nationalism.. No Zionists call themselves Palestino-Jews or Judaeo-Palestinians. The State is called Israel, not Filastino-Israel or Israelo-Filastina

Within this framework, which includes contradictory ideas about Israeli citizenship, the four racist characteristics can be identified.

Firstly, the Zionist movement historically made a claim to territory on behalf of 'the Jewish people', an exclusive geopolitical claim. It claimed that individual Jews had a right to residence in that territory, which did not apply to randomly selected non-Jews outside that territory. None of the early Zionists advocated the ethnic cleansing, which in fact preceded the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 - but none of them believed that non-Jews had a right to the Jewish homeland either. Zionists attribute a superior quality to Jews, namely the exclusive right to the Jewish national territory. The State of Israel, by definition, claims Israeli territory for Israeli's. It attributes a superior quality to Israeli's, although paradoxically that includes the Arab minority with Israeli citizenship. However, the State of Israel is not 'Israelist' - in the sense of consistently presenting these claims for both its Jewish and Arab citizens. In official pronouncements, such as its defensive speech to the Durban anti-racism conference, Israel continues to claim state legitimacy as the national homeland for the 'Jewish people'. It is therefore not correct to say, that in Israel Jewish diaspora nationalism has been succeeded by Israeli nationalism. The legitimising ideology of Israel is still largely Zionism, and not 'Israelism'.

Secondly, Zionism attributes an inferior status to members of non-Jewish ethno-national groups: that they lack the absolute right to residence in the Jewish homeland, and to citizenship of a Jewish nation state. The State of Israel confers no right of residence or citizenship on persons born outside Israel, unless they have specific links to Israel, to the Jewish people, or to Judaism. That excludes about 99% of the world population. The only exception to the general pattern of nationalist exclusion is, that the State of Israel extends citizenship to the historically resident Arab minority. However, some groups in Israel dispute even their right to residence, and propose their expulsion as part of a 'peace settlement' - together with the expulsion of Palestinians from all or part of the occupied territories. According to a 2003 opinion poll in Israel (Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies), 31% now support the expulsion of the Arab minority, and 46% support clearance of the territories.

The most obvious exclusion, which was not foreseen by the early Zionists, is the status of the Palestinians in the occupied territories. Theodor Herzl never imagined that a Jewish state would be an occupying power, and therefore the de facto government, for a large non-Jewish population. In addition, about three million people belong to the clearly identifiable 'Palestinian-refugee' minorities, in other Arab countries, although most were born in their present country of residence. The State of Israel clearly attributes an inferior status to this population: namely that they do not possess the right to Israeli citizenship. This population is generally equivalent to the 'Palestinian people' in the occupied territories, although it includes small non-Jewish, non-Arab minorities. The members of this population, (primarily Palestinian), can not vote, for instance, and if they did all vote in Israeli elections, it would mean the end of the State of Israel. Again it is true that all nation states operate this exclusion, and none of them extend citizenship to everyone, certainly not to hostile populations. That does not make such policies any less racist, since the exclusions are by definition on ethnic or national grounds.

That would not matter so much, if Israeli borders were open to all immigrants: but they are not, and this is the third racist characteristic of Zionism. Israel has one of the highest immigration rates in history, but immigration policy has always been restrictive. Although Israel grants citizenship to the resident Arab minority, it does not permit Arab immigration, even by former residents of its territory. Only those who stayed in their villages in 1948 got Israeli citizenship: those who crossed the front line to the Arab side can not get back - not as a citizen, and probably not as a visitor. Other Arabs, who have no connection with Palestine, can not simply migrate to Israel, nor can most of the world's population. Israeli immigration is essentially for Jews only, and this is the most obviously racist policy of present Zionism. In this case, the State of Israel has a formal and explicit policy of Jewish immigration, which is clearly Zionist. It is the logical consequence of the original Zionist demand for a Jewish state formed by migration, meaning migration of Jews.

In one respect Israeli policy differs from most national immigration policies: citizenship can be indirectly acquired on religious grounds. A person who converts to Judaism can be a Jew in the sense of the Israeli Law of Return, if the conversion is accepted as valid by religious authorities in Israel. The convert can then go to Israel (entry can not be legally refused), and can claim Israeli nationality and citizenship. Sometimes this is quoted by Israel's supporters, to show Israel is not racist. In theory, all the inhabitants of the Palestinian territories can sincerely convert to Judaism tomorrow, and on acceptance of their conversion move to Israel. - where they will all presumably live as good and prosperous Israeli citizens. In practice this is absurdly unlikely. And the question is: why should they have to convert to Judaism, when native-born atheist or Buddhist Israelis can still be part of the Jewish people?

This is the fourth racist characteristic, equally present in the state policies of Israel and present Zionist belief. It was not very relevant for the early Zionists, who were too far from a Jewish state to think about its future citizenship policy. Nevertheless, it was predictable even at the time Herzl wrote, on the basis of the general characteristics of European nation states (and of the Austro-Hungarian empire where he lived). The child of an Israeli citizen mother and and Israeli citizen father is an Israeli citizen. (I am not sure if this applies to the children of Israeli Arabs, born in the occupied territories). The child acquires this privilege without effort: no application under the Law of Return, no conversion to Judaism, no other qualification for citizenship. The child simply acquires the rights (and duties) of an Israeli citizen through unconscious biological process. The child without this biological advantage (birth, or parentage, or genetic material) does not automatically acquire citizenship. Life in Israel is not always pleasant, and many western Jews hesitate to emigrate there, but within the region an Israeli-born child has the advantage. The child born to Israeli settlers in central Hebron will statistically live longer, be better educated, and have a higher standard of living, then the Palestinian child born in an adjoining house. This advantage is part of the general advantage of being born in a rich country, which about one-fifth of the world's population share.

In citizenship and immigration issues, biology determines fate. Not inevitably, but because nation states are structured that way. There is no inherent moral reason why states should limit immigration, or residence, or citizenship, simply on grounds of birth. In fact, it is hard to think of any moral justification for it. It is clearly racist in the general sense of the word, and its derivation from the ideology of nationalism indicates the racist origins of that ideology. The nationalism underlying the nation state Israel, which is accurately called Zionism, is no different in this respect. Here too, Zionism is racist.

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/zionism.html

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