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Boy, 3, fatally shoots self

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CBS News.....(AP) SEATTLE - A 3-year-old boy fatally shot himself with a gun he found in a car while his family stopped for gas early Wednesday in Tacoma, police said. It was western Washington's third recent shooting by a child. "It is incredible in light of the other ones," said Tacoma police Officer Naveed Benjamin. "You would think people would take more care, not less."Read More Here

Child around, lock it up.

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Posted (edited)

This was a very unfortunate situation that could have been completely avoided. I still cannot comprehend why adults will still leave their children in the car while they step away into a restroom, or to purchase something from a convenience store. Gun or no gun, the children should always be taken out of the vehicle when the adult leaves it. There was an incident back here where a parent pulled up outside of a small convenience store with baby in its car seat (in the back), ran in to purchase something, and left the car running. When he got back which was probably within minutes, the car and child was gone. Someone standing within the area, jumped in and took the car, but did not realize until a little later, that their was baby in the back seat. Fortunately, about a mile and half up the road, the thief got out and left the car on the side of the road. The police found the car with the baby in it. Parents need to be held accountable for their actions, and more needs to be done with state laws.

Edited by NiteMarcher

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This is terrible. I completely agree with NiteMarcher children should not be left alone in the car regardless of there being a gun or not. That's ridiculous. Here in Houston we've had a couple of those cases of stolen cars with baby inside.

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Posted (edited)

The mother went into the convenience store, the child was in the car while the man was right outside pumping gas. I don't know of a single parent that would take their child out of the car (and there were two children in the car) while they pump gas right out side.

What I don't understand is leaving a loaded gun, under a seat, in a car with children present. That's just collassally stupid. And this is the second time in 10 days this has happened in the Seattle Metro area.

Folks, if you want to carry firearms, have at it, but PLEASE keep them away from children and out of their reach at all costs. This could be you if you don't.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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Posted (edited)

Having a gun under the seat is completely stoopid. Because it's useless! By the time one realize he/she needs it for self-defense it's too late to reach it. First rule about guns: take a freaking class on how to use it! You either keep on yourself or leave it at home out of the reach of children.

Edited by Paracelse

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This was a very unfortunate situation that could have been completely avoided. I still cannot comprehend why adults will still leave their children in the car while they step away into a restroom, or to purchase something from a convenience store. Gun or no gun, the children should always be taken out of the vehicle when the adult leaves it. There was an incident back here where a parent pulled up outside of a small convenience store with baby in its car seat (in the back), ran in to purchase something, and left the car running. When he got back which was probably within minutes, the car and child was gone. Someone standing within the area, jumped in and took the car, but did not realize until a little later, that their was baby in the back seat. Fortunately, about a mile and half up the road, the thief got out and left the car on the side of the road. The police found the car with the baby in it. Parents need to be held accountable for their actions, and more needs to be done with state laws.

Agreed. The only time I leave my 6 year old son in the car is when I take my 2 rotties with us. And I still lock the doors. Those dogs would die before they let a stranger in the car.

And my wife still gets mad at me when I do that.

As far as this kid shooting himself, how terrible, and totaly preventable.

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Just do not get a gun for self-defense. It is not going to help you in any way. Actually, it will only put you and your family in more danger.

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Agreed. The only time I leave my 6 year old son in the car is when I take my 2 rotties with us. And I still lock the doors. Those dogs would die before they let a stranger in the car.

And my wife still gets mad at me when I do that.

As far as this kid shooting himself, how terrible, and totaly preventable.

You would leave your kids in the car when you were pumping gas. Of course, you live in Oregon (if I remember correctly) where you can't pump your own gas so this probably didn't occur to you. I know of no one in Washington that takes their kids out of the car when they're filling up. No one. It's more dangerous to take them out than leave them in the car. So don't get self-rightteous on that portion of the story. I challenge you to find one person who takes their kids out of the car (one being an infant) to simply pump gas. If they tell you they do every time, they are lying.

Apparently, the man had the gun out in plain view when they pulled up to the gas station. He put the gun under the seat right before he got out to pump his gas. He probably assumed like so many others have, that the child was taught not to touch the firearm. This was kind of a series of unfortunate events. However, that doesn't excuse this man's negligence. Children in a car with a loaded firearm is collassally stupid no matter how you look at it. In fact, children around a loaded firearm is just dumb regardless of where you're at.

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Just do not get a gun for self-defense. It is not going to help you in any way. Actually, it will only put you and your family in more danger.

In what country? While living in the States I always had legal weapons, nothing happen to me. For 3 1/2 years I moved to France, I had 2 attempted robberies and one car theft. Sorry, but if in France and EU people could defend their properties those things wouldn't happen period. But I forgot, criminals in EU are the real victims thanks to the warped thinking of socialism.

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Posted (edited)

Oh, so there are no robberies in the States? Last time I have looked at the figures, these kind of crimes happen on a much higher rate in the States than in an country in the EU. Car theft is a major problem in the EU, but a gun won't do anything against that. How could it?

You can get robbed anywhere, it's just bad luck. I myself have never been robbed, despite using to live in multiple countries. I consider this luck, too. If someone wants to rob you, he is definitely not making his decision up to you possibly 'carrying' or not. What makes so many people think they turn into Lucky Luke when they carry a gun? If he steps up to you, points his weapon at you, you wont be able to reach for your gun anymore.

What I do see is many, many people wielding ridiculously heavy guns and have no idea how to properly handle them, legally! Oh, and they make their babies shoot themselves in the face, because it's "nothing for you to touch", which makes them so interesting. Now if possession of guns would be illegal, or at least the regulations of obtaining and storing one would be tightened, all those deaths could have been prevented.

Edited by FLOMBIE

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Oh, so there are no robberies in the States? Last time I have looked at the figures, these kind of crimes happen on a much higher rate in the States than in an country in the EU. Car theft is a major problem in the EU, but a gun won't do anything against that. How could it?

You can get robbed anywhere, it's just bad luck. I myself have never been robbed, despite using to live in multiple countries. I consider this luck, too. If someone wants to rob you, he is definitely not making his decision up to you possibly 'carrying' or not. What makes so many people think they turn into Lucky Luke when they carry a gun? If he steps up to you, points his weapon at you, you wont be able to reach for your gun anymore.

What I do see is many, many people wielding ridiculously heavy guns and have no idea how to properly handle them, legally! Oh, and they make their babies shoot themselves in the face, because it's "nothing for you to touch", which makes them so interesting. Now if possession of guns would be illegal, or at least the regulations of obtaining and storing one would be tightened, all those deaths could have been prevented.

I guess that's why crimes of all types drop in states that enact concealed carry legislation. If the bad guys don't know who is armed, they have to assume everyone is.

As far as regulations go, there are tens of thousands on the books in the US regarding firearms. What do you propose we add to in order to prevent "all those deaths"?

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Posted (edited)

I was just reading in the local paper that so far, no charges have been filed. The police are calling it a tragic accident. The only charge that they're considering at this point is that it appears the safety might have been off, which would be illegal (and a misdemener). Otherwise, it appears that no laws were broken.

Last week, a police officer had his loaded weapon in his private car, and his 7 year old daughter was accidentally shot and killed in a similar situation in Western Washington. Two children, a brother and a sister were left momentarily in the officers van, when the boy found the loaded gun in the glovebox and killed his sister.

And there was also the recent case of a child who found a loaded gun at his mother's house, put it in his backback and the gun went off and critically injured a classmate. She's undergone 4 sugeries in 4 weeks, in so far, she's still alive. The mother in this last case was arrested today.

All three of these tragic shootings involving children have happened in Western Washington in the last 4 weeks. Something needs to be done, but I'll be damned what. In at least two of these cases, the gun owners had concealed weapons permits, and one of them was a cop.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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Being a career military man I've been trained and elite trained with firearms and tactics. I've started teaching my 8 year old and 9 year old how to use fire arms properly. They have the GREATEST respect for weapons of any sort. I do however, keep all my weapons locked at all times unless it's time for practice. I can say with 100% certainty that if my children were at some friends house, and a fire arm was left in the open, they wouldn't touch it. In fact, my son recently was at a friends house where the father left his shot gun on the table. My son told the mother that it should be locked up and put away lol!

This story is very unfortunate and the father and/or parents should be held absolutely responsible! I am saddened about the little one passing. However, it's absolutely ridiculous to say "ban guns and this kind of thing wont happen." Guns were designed, and are a part of this world. The only way to solve this "problem" would be to go in the past and not allow guns to be invented. That can't happen.

It's a statistical fact communities with a large amount of the population that owns firearms has a subsequently lower violent crime and crime rate all together. You can try to argue this with me but, on this subject, I know for a fact. I've been overly educated in this and have trained SWAT teams across the country, as well as the Dept of Home Land Security SWAT. (Even spent time training British Special Forces as well as the Canadians) We get briefed on these facts and even have taken classes on this exact matter. The person of the website I'm about to quote has it dead-on.

More Guns Equals Less Crime

Give a gun to each person in the United States - desiring to lawfully carry it for self defense. This person must be a law abiding citizen (no criminal record, age 21 , no mental history, you know...responsible). Make sure he/she knows how to use it for self defense (proper training). You'll see violent crime drop substantially.

* Here's the obvious: If you're a criminal - do you break into a house where a little old lady will shoot you or where a helpless victim is easy prey?

* If you're a criminal - do you care anything about the law? Obviously not! Isn't it naive to believe criminals will follow gun control laws?

* Why have we let our government legislate us into becoming potential victims? Criminals have guns while law-abiding citizens are left helpless.

* Why should criminals carry guns while law-abiding citizens are prohibited?

* Why add more gun control laws when criminals clearly ignore existing gun control laws?

* Any gun control that restricts law-abiding citizens is ridiculous - we're not the people who commit crimes.

* More guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens will lower crime and make the world a better place.

* One more quick point: If gun control works - why is crime so high in Washington D.C.? After all, guns are barely allowed in D.C.

"GUNS Save lives®" is a registered trademark of Ed Levine.

Source is: http://www.squidoo.com/moregunsequalslesscrime

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There are gun safes that you can bolt to the floor of your car so that if someone breaks into it they can't steal the gun without getting underneath and unbolting it. They can be fingerprint accessed for quick response. If you need to carry a gun in the car, and have children, I think they should be utilized.

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Being a career military man I've been trained and elite trained with firearms and tactics. I've started teaching my 8 year old and 9 year old how to use fire arms properly. They have the GREATEST respect for weapons of any sort.

Exactly! My Dad taught me from the time I was six. I knew what they could do and it took the mystery out of them. "Don't touch" never works.

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I guess that's why crimes of all types drop in states that enact concealed carry legislation. If the bad guys don't know who is armed, they have to assume everyone is.

I have no insight in these statistics, but doubt it is due to that. Like I said, I don't believe it hinders anyone to rob somebody. It might keep some petty thieves away, but not the big fishes.

As far as regulations go, there are tens of thousands on the books in the US regarding firearms. What do you propose we add to in order to prevent "all those deaths"?

I mean things like how you store your weapon. Here in Germany, if you want to keep your gun at home, you are ought to have a properly secured weapon locker, or to keep your firearm in a safe that meets the security restriction. If outside, you have to carry your firearm on your body at all times. This could have prevented a lot.

And yes, there are books. Is everyone obtaining a gun reading them? Are they all taking classes how to handle their new toy? For driving a car you need to take at least a test, in some countries you even have to attend driving school, but guns are handed out (almost) freely? I see a big issue there.

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Being a career military man I've been trained and elite trained with firearms and tactics. I've started teaching my 8 year old and 9 year old how to use fire arms properly. They have the GREATEST respect for weapons of any sort. I do however, keep all my weapons locked at all times unless it's time for practice. I can say with 100% certainty that if my children were at some friends house, and a fire arm was left in the open, they wouldn't touch it. In fact, my son recently was at a friends house where the father left his shot gun on the table. My son told the mother that it should be locked up and put away lol!

This story is very unfortunate and the father and/or parents should be held absolutely responsible! I am saddened about the little one passing. However, it's absolutely ridiculous to say "ban guns and this kind of thing wont happen." Guns were designed, and are a part of this world. The only way to solve this "problem" would be to go in the past and not allow guns to be invented. That can't happen.

It's a statistical fact communities with a large amount of the population that owns firearms has a subsequently lower violent crime and crime rate all together. You can try to argue this with me but, on this subject, I know for a fact. I've been overly educated in this and have trained SWAT teams across the country, as well as the Dept of Home Land Security SWAT. (Even spent time training British Special Forces as well as the Canadians) We get briefed on these facts and even have taken classes on this exact matter. The person of the website I'm about to quote has it dead-on.

you beat me to it coloradoparanormal :)

well said.

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Posted (edited)

Being a career military man I've been trained and elite trained with firearms and tactics. I've started teaching my 8 year old and 9 year old how to use fire arms properly. They have the GREATEST respect for weapons of any sort. I do however, keep all my weapons locked at all times unless it's time for practice. I can say with 100% certainty that if my children were at some friends house, and a fire arm was left in the open, they wouldn't touch it. In fact, my son recently was at a friends house where the father left his shot gun on the table. My son told the mother that it should be locked up and put away lol!

While I do believe that your stance on this is better that just forbidding your kids to touch the weapon, I dot not believe that guns are for kids at all.

This story is very unfortunate and the father and/or parents should be held absolutely responsible! I am saddened about the little one passing. However, it's absolutely ridiculous to say "ban guns and this kind of thing wont happen." Guns were designed, and are a part of this world. The only way to solve this "problem" would be to go in the past and not allow guns to be invented. That can't happen.

It's a statistical fact communities with a large amount of the population that owns firearms has a subsequently lower violent crime and crime rate all together. You can try to argue this with me but, on this subject, I know for a fact. I've been overly educated in this and have trained SWAT teams across the country, as well as the Dept of Home Land Security SWAT. (Even spent time training British Special Forces as well as the Canadians) We get briefed on these facts and even have taken classes on this exact matter. The person of the website I'm about to quote has it dead-on.

Source is: http://www.squidoo.com/moregunsequalslesscrime

The parents should be held responsible, you are right. I do not know the correct judicial terms in english, but it is at least wilful neglect of obligatory supervision. I would consider it involuntary manslaughter.

As for the statistics, in this field, they can be tweeked to point at almost anything you want to.

My statements to the following are in italics:

More Guns Equals Less Crime

Give a gun to each person in the United States - desiring to lawfully carry it for self defense. This person must be a law abiding citizen (no criminal record, age 21 , no mental history, you know...responsible). Make sure he/she knows how to use it for self defense (proper training). You'll see violent crime drop substantially.

* Here's the obvious: If you're a criminal - do you break into a house where a little old lady will shoot you or where a helpless victim is easy prey?

Break-ins are usually committed when the tenants are not at home.

* If you're a criminal - do you care anything about the law? Obviously not! Isn't it naive to believe criminals will follow gun control laws?

They why don't all the crooks over here have guns? This is almost never the case.

* Why have we let our government legislate us into becoming potential victims? Criminals have guns while law-abiding citizens are left helpless.

We are not helpless. There is law enforcement, and I have yet to hear of someone fighting off a street robbery with a gun.

* Why should criminals carry guns while law-abiding citizens are prohibited?

Because it is against the law. When it is generally prohibited to own a gun, it is way more difficult to acquire one. As said above, most criminals here do not carry a gun.

* Why add more gun control laws when criminals clearly ignore existing gun control laws?

Again? No more arguments?

* Any gun control that restricts law-abiding citizens is ridiculous - we're not the people who commit crimes.

So why need a gun?

* More guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens will lower crime and make the world a better place.

As we see in the article, it creates lots of tragedy as well. Like trading dead kids for your personal safety.

* One more quick point: If gun control works - why is crime so high in Washington D.C.? After all, guns are barely allowed in D.C.

Poverty? Inequality? Ghettoisation? No, it must be the guns.

"GUNS Save lives®" is a registered trademark of Ed Levine.

"GUNS Kill people.PERIOD" is a registered trademark of FLOMBIE.

Owning a gun means a lot of responsibilities. We have to be aware of that and take measurements that ensure everybody is taking care of them. Which was clearly not the case in this incident.

Edited by FLOMBIE

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While I do believe that your stance on this is better that just forbidden your kids to touch the weapon, I dot not believe that guns are for kids at all.

the thing is, if you teach them to respect guns from a young age, they are much less likely to harm themselves or someone else. they are much more likely to respect guns. its like alcohol. if kids are allowed to have small sips now and then when growing up, and moreso when they get older, they are much less likely to abuse alcohol when they reach the "age".

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Posted (edited)

I have to say i find both of your statements wrong. You can teach a kid to respect a gun without showing him how to handle it. It is best it almost never sees a gun, only when it is in the right hands, e.g. the police or military. In a special occasion I would allow my kids to handle guns. Sports, for example. But these weapons are a little different, and there would be proper training involved.

I think it is ok to have kids trying alcohol a few times. It is also good to see how they will react to it. Because there is no connection to abuse of any substance and the age the addict came in contact with it. Would you say the same about sex? Someone who did not have sex until 30 will probably crave it for the rest of his life on contrary to someone who had his first experience at 14? These things are individually different.

Edited by FLOMBIE

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you beat me to it coloradoparanormal :)

well said.

:tu: Thank You! I generally stay away from this subject as it never gets anywhere. However, I couldn't resist on this one. The parent's of this poor child should be charged with Manslaughter, Child Abuse resulting in death and reckless endangerment.

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Posted (edited)

:tu: Thank You! I generally stay away from this subject as it never gets anywhere. However, I couldn't resist on this one. The parent's of this poor child should be charged with Manslaughter, Child Abuse resulting in death and reckless endangerment.

Except, according to Washington state law that won't happen. There's what you think should happen, and then there's the law. It's two different things.

  • Leaving a child in the car while you pump gas is not illegal.
  • Carrying a gun in the car with children present is not illegal if you have a concealed carry permit (he had one).
  • Carrying a loaded gun in a car if you have a concealed carry permit is not illegal (he had one)
  • Leaving a gun in a car with the safety off, IS illegal, but in this case, they aren't sure if that's what happened.

There might be charge if it was found the safty was off. But that's about the only charge as of now that they can press. As of today, no one has been arrested.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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:tu: Thank You! I generally stay away from this subject as it never gets anywhere. However, I couldn't resist on this one. The parent's of this poor child should be charged with Manslaughter, Child Abuse resulting in death and reckless endangerment.

It's kinda said you don't want to discuss the answer I worked out for your post. :mellow:

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Except, according to Washington state law that won't happen. There's what you think should happen, and then there's the law. It's two different things.

  • Leaving a child in the car while you pump gas is not illegal.
  • Carrying a gun in the car with children present is not illegal if you have a concealed carry permit (he had one).
  • Carrying a loaded gun in a car if you have a concealed carry permit is not illegal (he had one)
  • Leaving a gun in a car with the safety off, IS illegal, but in this case, they aren't sure if that's what happened.

There might be charge if it was found the safty was off. But that's about the only charge as of now that they can press. As of today, no one has been arrested.

There is something wrong, if a baby can shoot himself in the face with an easy accessible gun flying around in a car somewhere, and no one is getting charged for this. This is not an accident, it's the result of someone not being cautious enough.

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Oh, so there are no robberies in the States? Last time I have looked at the figures, these kind of crimes happen on a much higher rate in the States than in an country in the EU. Car theft is a major problem in the EU, but a gun won't do anything against that. How could it?

You can get robbed anywhere, it's just bad luck. I myself have never been robbed, despite using to live in multiple countries. I consider this luck, too. If someone wants to rob you, he is definitely not making his decision up to you possibly 'carrying' or not. What makes so many people think they turn into Lucky Luke when they carry a gun? If he steps up to you, points his weapon at you, you wont be able to reach for your gun anymore.

What I do see is many, many people wielding ridiculously heavy guns and have no idea how to properly handle them, legally! Oh, and they make their babies shoot themselves in the face, because it's "nothing for you to touch", which makes them so interesting. Now if possession of guns would be illegal, or at least the regulations of obtaining and storing one would be tightened, all those deaths could have been prevented.

There is a huge flaw in the crime percentage computing in the EU: a crime isn't going in the crime file until it's solved and since the police avoids searching for real criminals (at least in France because they don't have the rights to use their weapons against people of immigration [fearing to be sued for racism]) not many crimes are being solved therefore there is allegedely less crimes in EU than in US.

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