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Turkey Threatens To Invade Northern Syria

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If you can't understand the difference between defending your own borders (which may require going to war and not just threatening to) and war mongering, then you'd have to not know that the war is already started.

So, by your definition, Turkey was defending itself from Cyrpus because the Cypriots permitted offshore oil drilling in its own territorial waters? And what exactly has the Syrian government done to make Ankara take these sorts of gestures?

Neocon/Zionists never could understand the difference between offense and defense. It's all purposefully blurred together in some cute little cliche they heard a politician use on TV and now they're all military experts just for hearing it.

I am not a neocon nor a Zionist so please refrain from using such terms when engaging in debates with me. The latter is more reflective of you than me because I actually do the research and I know all there is

Turkey is already at war with "the rebels" on the other side of its border. It's just another example of blowback from the war in Iraq destabilizing the region and no, instability, perpetual war, or an independent Kurdistan is not what Turkey wants.

Way to state the obvious. Of course Turkey doesn't want an independent Kurdistan. No one apart from the Kurds do. And even then, most Kurds simply want to have cultural recognition that they have been denied for centuries and only recently are starting to gain.

Also, I'm starting to get sick and tired of the same spiel you put out when talking about the Middle East. For one thing, the Iraq War served as a casus belli for the Turkish Armed Forces to step up its campaign against the PKK in an area which was already unstable and sensitive before it started. Also, the PKK and the Syrian rebels are two totally different groups of people. The Turkish are supplying weapons to the rebels, almost as if it was payback for the decades of support the PKK received from Syria.

Syria provides even more instability on Turkey's border than they had already, and Turkey would have no interest in going to war against Syrian rebels if they were believed friendly to their Kurdish counterparts, who both share a very common goal of independence and a very common tactic of armed resistance and a very common geography as next door neighbors.

This isn't against the rebels but the Syrian government. The Turks for some reason want to intervene against the Turkish government and this is nothing more than sabre rattling and chest puffing on the behalf of Ergodan, although I am pleased that someone is willing to take a stand against the suffering and bloodshed in Syria.

What interests me, and shows how little you know about what is happening, is that you seem to think that the two movements want the same goal. This is incorrect because they want two very different goals. The PKK ultimately want a state specifically for Kurds based on lingustic, cultural and possibly ethnic differences with Turks. The Syrian rebels simply want Assad and his assorted family members out of government.

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So, by your definition, Turkey was defending itself from Cyrpus because the Cypriots permitted offshore oil drilling in its own territorial waters? And what exactly has the Syrian government done to make Ankara take these sorts of gestures?

I am not a neocon nor a Zionist so please refrain from using such terms when engaging in debates with me. The latter is more reflective of you than me because I actually do the research and I know all there is

Way to state the obvious. Of course Turkey doesn't want an independent Kurdistan. No one apart from the Kurds do. And even then, most Kurds simply want to have cultural recognition that they have been denied for centuries and only recently are starting to gain.

Also, I'm starting to get sick and tired of the same spiel you put out when talking about the Middle East. For one thing, the Iraq War served as a casus belli for the Turkish Armed Forces to step up its campaign against the PKK in an area which was already unstable and sensitive before it started. Also, the PKK and the Syrian rebels are two totally different groups of people. The Turkish are supplying weapons to the rebels, almost as if it was payback for the decades of support the PKK received from Syria.

This isn't against the rebels but the Syrian government. The Turks for some reason want to intervene against the Turkish government and this is nothing more than sabre rattling and chest puffing on the behalf of Ergodan, although I am pleased that someone is willing to take a stand against the suffering and bloodshed in Syria.

What interests me, and shows how little you know about what is happening, is that you seem to think that the two movements want the same goal. This is incorrect because they want two very different goals. The PKK ultimately want a state specifically for Kurds based on lingustic, cultural and possibly ethnic differences with Turks. The Syrian rebels simply want Assad and his assorted family members out of government.

So, by your definition, Turkey was defending itself from Cyrpus because the Cypriots permitted offshore oil drilling in its own territorial waters?

No.

And what exactly has the Syrian government done to make Ankara take these sorts of gestures?

Slaughtering its own people.

I am not a neocon nor a Zionist so please refrain from using such terms when engaging in debates with me. The latter is more reflective of you than me because I actually do the research and I know all there is

You are not a Zionist because...?

You "know all there is"? The curse of the young.

Way to state the obvious. Of course Turkey doesn't want an independent Kurdistan. No one apart from the Kurds do. And even then, most Kurds simply want to have cultural recognition that they have been denied for centuries and only recently are starting to gain.

If Saddam Hussein was such a bad guy it would have been just as obvious for the unschooled war monger to think that Turkey didn't want Saddam Hussein, of course. If Kurds simply want to have cultural recognition that they have been denied for centuries, why don't you want that? It looks arrogant and naive for you to once again think you speak for everyone by making claims about "no one".

Also, I'm starting to get sick and tired of the same spiel you put out when talking about the Middle East. For one thing, the Iraq War served as a casus belli for the Turkish Armed Forces to step up its campaign against the PKK in an area which was already unstable and sensitive before it started. Also, the PKK and the Syrian rebels are two totally different groups of people. The Turkish are supplying weapons to the rebels, almost as if it was payback for the decades of support the PKK received from Syria.

You're sick and tired of being corrected. What did I say that meant the Iraq war wasn't a casus belli for Turkey to step up against the PKK? "Totally different groups of people" can have similar interests, similar tactics, similar goals, and similar cultural heritage. You stand corrected with every reply you mutter. There are Kurds in Syria.

This isn't against the rebels but the Syrian government. The Turks for some reason want to intervene against the Turkish government and this is nothing more than sabre rattling and chest puffing on the behalf of Ergodan, although I am pleased that someone is willing to take a stand against the suffering and bloodshed in Syria.

What interests me, and shows how little you know about what is happening, is that you seem to think that the two movements want the same goal. This is incorrect because they want two very different goals. The PKK ultimately want a state specifically for Kurds based on lingustic, cultural and possibly ethnic differences with Turks. The Syrian rebels simply want Assad and his assorted family members out of government.

You're pleased at chest puffing? Whoop de doo. I have roots in Turkey. What do you have? What interests you is that there was nothing incorrect in what I just said. You can add irrelevant and incorrect statements around what I say so to pretend something I said wasn't accurate. But that will require you to put words in my mouth and start your typical disingenuous spin cycle. You rely on internet snippets that you think allows you to act like a know-it-all about everything. But you're wrong with virtually every point you make. Both groups want independence from the ruling regimes they live under. The goals are thus the same. If you need equivalence before you compare, you're incapable of comparison.

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Not really Syrian rebels want to be ridden of their own president. Kurd's don't have their own president and I don't see any Kurds supporting Turkey, so they are not the same.

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The creation of an independent state and the removal of a leader are two very different things. I haven't heard of the Syrian rebels wanting to break off parts of Syria to form a new nation.

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Slaughtering its own people.

Finally, a valid answer. I was expecting you to say "nothing".

You are not a Zionist because...?

Because I am neither Jewish. There are Jewish people in far flung parts of my family, but that's about it.

You "know all there is"? The curse of the young.

I have a habit of not finishing a scentence. But in saying that, you appear to think you know more when you have proven again that you don't.

If Saddam Hussein was such a bad guy it would have been just as obvious for the unschooled war monger to think that Turkey didn't want Saddam Hussein, of course. If Kurds simply want to have cultural recognition that they have been denied for centuries, why don't you want that? It looks arrogant and naive for you to once again think you speak for everyone by making claims about "no one".

And this has to do with Saddam Hussein how? Iraq was an excuse for Turkey to up the ante against the PKK militarily. I fully support the moves Ankara has made to bring the Kurdish language and culture into mainstream day-to-day life in the provinces were Kurds for a majority of the population.

It looks arrogant and naive (as well as hypocritical) to speak for other people Yam. Nowhere did I say I didn't support the Kurdish wishes of cultural and linguistic recognition in Turkey.

You're sick and tired of being corrected.

You're speaking on my behalf again Yam. Am I? Because I'm not tired nor being corrected. Pity you can't see that.

What did I say that meant the Iraq war wasn't a casus belli for Turkey to step up against the PKK? "Totally different groups of people" can have similar interests, similar tactics, similar goals, and similar cultural heritage. You stand corrected with every reply you mutter. There are Kurds in Syria.

And therefore the Syrian rebels want exactly the same goals as the PKK operating in Turkey? Despite the fact that Arabs comprise the absolute majority of combatants and the fact that the Syrian government actually supported the PKK?

You're pleased at chest puffing?

Depends on who is committing it and who it directed against. If it was Turkey against Cyprus, it is bad. If it is Turkey against Syria it is good.

Whoop de doo. I have roots in Turkey. What do you have?

I have roots in the Netherlands.

What interests you is that there was nothing incorrect in what I just said.

Well if there was anything incorrect about what you have said, we wouldn't be having this debate.

But you're wrong with virtually every point you make.

According to you. And that counts for pretty much nothing whatsoever.

Both groups want independence from the ruling regimes they live under. The goals are thus the same.

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad. The PKK wants a spearate state for Kurds. How different can these two goals be? The removal of a tyrant and the creation of a spearate, ethnically based nationstate are two totally different goals. Everyone can see this but you.

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Finally, a valid answer. I was expecting you to say "nothing".

Because I am neither Jewish. There are Jewish people in far flung parts of my family, but that's about it.

I have a habit of not finishing a scentence. But in saying that, you appear to think you know more when you have proven again that you don't.

And this has to do with Saddam Hussein how? Iraq was an excuse for Turkey to up the ante against the PKK militarily. I fully support the moves Ankara has made to bring the Kurdish language and culture into mainstream day-to-day life in the provinces were Kurds for a majority of the population.

It looks arrogant and naive (as well as hypocritical) to speak for other people Yam. Nowhere did I say I didn't support the Kurdish wishes of cultural and linguistic recognition in Turkey.

You're speaking on my behalf again Yam. Am I? Because I'm not tired nor being corrected. Pity you can't see that.

And therefore the Syrian rebels want exactly the same goals as the PKK operating in Turkey? Despite the fact that Arabs comprise the absolute majority of combatants and the fact that the Syrian government actually supported the PKK?

Depends on who is committing it and who it directed against. If it was Turkey against Cyprus, it is bad. If it is Turkey against Syria it is good.

I have roots in the Netherlands.

Well if there was anything incorrect about what you have said, we wouldn't be having this debate.

According to you. And that counts for pretty much nothing whatsoever.

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad. The PKK wants a spearate state for Kurds. How different can these two goals be? The removal of a tyrant and the creation of a spearate, ethnically based nationstate are two totally different goals. Everyone can see this but you.

Finally, a valid answer. I was expecting you to say "nothing".

Where's an invalid answer?

Because I am neither Jewish. There are Jewish people in far flung parts of my family, but that's about it.

You don't know what a Zionist is. It's not about being Jewish. Look it up.

I have a habit of not finishing a scentence. But in saying that, you appear to think you know more when you have proven again that you don't.

Where have you proven that I don't?

And this has to do with Saddam Hussein how?

As I said, the war brought instability and chaos and that spilled into Turkey as was so predictable before the war even began. You were about eight years old at the time, already well on your way to knowing everything no doubt.

Iraq was an excuse for Turkey to up the ante against the PKK militarily.

You're answering your own question.

I fully support the moves Ankara has made to bring the Kurdish language and culture into mainstream day-to-day life in the provinces were Kurds for a majority of the population.

Such as? You just said nobody wants that but the Kurds.

It looks arrogant and naive (as well as hypocritical) to speak for other people Yam. Nowhere did I say I didn't support the Kurdish wishes of cultural and linguistic recognition in Turkey.

Where did I do that? You arrogantly, naively and hypocritically spoke for everyone, and then I asked you a question.

You're speaking on my behalf again Yam. Am I? Because I'm not tired nor being corrected. Pity you can't see that.

But you're not right about anything, and I'm correcting you, so maybe that's why you're both sick and tired.

Depends on who is committing it and who it directed against. If it was Turkey against Cyprus, it is bad. If it is Turkey against Syria it is good.

Whoop de doo.

I have roots in the Netherlands.

And you know anything about Turkey from?

Well if there was anything incorrect about what you have said, we wouldn't be having this debate.

What's incorrect about what I said? I have no idea what you think you're debating with me.

According to you. And that counts for pretty much nothing whatsoever.

And yet you waste so much time on nothing whatsoever. Why don't you find something that counts for something and spend your time doing that.

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad. The PKK wants a spearate state for Kurds. How different can these two goals be? The removal of a tyrant and the creation of a spearate, ethnically based nationstate are two totally different goals. Everyone can see this but you.

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad. The first accurate statement so far. If you want to live in a different state more to your liking you have to get rid of the regime in charge. There's nothing different about similarities. You just can't think of the similarity because it's too important to stick with the pimply faced differences.

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You still Haven't answered "How different can these two goals be?"

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Posted (edited)

Where's an invalid answer?

Everything else you seem to put.

You don't know what a Zionist is. It's not about being Jewish. Look it up.

And I did. And it is about being Jewish as zionism is a form of Jewish nationalism. As I am not Jewish, I am not a Zionist.

Where have you proven that I don't?

This thread, the Israeli strike thread. Basically every time you post something.

As I said, the war brought instability and chaos and that spilled into Turkey as was so predictable before the war even began. You were about eight years old at the time, already well on your way to knowing everything no doubt.

Obviously. Although the Turkish actually extended the war themselves into Iraq by asking the Coalition and the provisional Iraqi government permission to intervene.

Such as? You just said nobody wants that but the Kurds.

The permission to speak the language freely in public. Previously, people were arrested for speaking Kurdish because the government didn't want them to.

Where did I do that? You arrogantly, naively and hypocritically spoke for everyone, and then I asked you a question.

You've done it right there, claiming I have done something. And which question was this? All I could see was the usual BS I seem to attract from you.

But you're not right about anything, and I'm correcting you, so maybe that's why you're both sick and tired.

But I am not incorrect. I'm sick and tired of you being the idiot you are and pretending to be right about everything.

Whoop de doo.

Don't have an answer? Oh dear, Yam can't think of something stupid to say.

And you know anything about Turkey from?

What I read, what I see and what I hear. Same as you. Same as everyone else, save the Turkish themselves. I get what I know from various sources, including the Turkish people who happen to be on some sites I frequent. But what I learn isn't entirely

What's incorrect about what I said? I have no idea what you think you're debating with me.

The fact that what the Syrian rebels want and what the PKK wants are one in the same. They aren't. Also, this isn't a debate. It's merely a tool for me to teach you a few things.

And yet you waste so much time on nothing whatsoever. Why don't you find something that counts for something and spend your time doing that.

Because I wouldn't get to meet such interesting people like you. Also, why can't you practice what you preach?

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad. The first accurate statement so far. If you want to live in a different state more to your liking you have to get rid of the regime in charge. There's nothing different about similarities. You just can't think of the similarity because it's too important to stick with the pimply faced differences.

You haven't answered my question. How different can these two goals be? You know what? I'll save you the hard part of thinking about it (because everyone knows it will be wrong anyway) and give the answer for you. I'll even make it to your level of comprehension.

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad.

The PKK want an ethnically based country just for the Kurdish people.

The PKK don't want to remove the government in Ankara nor the current administration.

The Syrian rebels don't want their own ethnically based nationstate.

Come on Yam. It's not that hard to understand.

Edited by MichaelW

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Everything else you seem to put.

And I did. And it is about being Jewish as zionism is a form of Jewish nationalism. As I am not Jewish, I am not a Zionist.

This thread, the Israeli strike thread. Basically every time you post something.

Obviously. Although the Turkish actually extended the war themselves into Iraq by asking the Coalition and the provisional Iraqi government permission to intervene.

The permission to speak the language freely in public. Previously, people were arrested for speaking Kurdish because the government didn't want them to.

You've done it right there, claiming I have done something. And which question was this? All I could see was the usual BS I seem to attract from you.

But I am not incorrect. I'm sick and tired of you being the idiot you are and pretending to be right about everything.

Don't have an answer? Oh dear, Yam can't think of something stupid to say.

What I read, what I see and what I hear. Same as you. Same as everyone else, save the Turkish themselves. I get what I know from various sources, including the Turkish people who happen to be on some sites I frequent. But what I learn isn't entirely

The fact that what the Syrian rebels want and what the PKK wants are one in the same. They aren't. Also, this isn't a debate. It's merely a tool for me to teach you a few things.

Because I wouldn't get to meet such interesting people like you. Also, why can't you practice what you preach?

You haven't answered my question. How different can these two goals be? You know what? I'll save you the hard part of thinking about it (because everyone knows it will be wrong anyway) and give the answer for you. I'll even make it to your level of comprehension.

The Syrian rebels want to get rid of Assad.

The PKK want an ethnically based country just for the Kurdish people.

The PKK don't want to remove the government in Ankara nor the current administration.

The Syrian rebels don't want their own ethnically based nationstate.

Come on Yam. It's not that hard to understand.

Some of us have way too much time on our hands. Talking about everything, every time, and everyone must be nice, but if you can't even come up with an example your all-inclusive claims become impotent.

Two groups of rebels living side by side who share cultural identity and want independence. I'm afraid I'm grown enough to know that human beings can strike many deals with similarities like that, covertly or otherwise.

It's a pedantic exercise to try so hard to impose your ridiculous world view on others through inflated language and insult. Many here are worth my time. Due mainly to your many teenaged anger issues I seem to painfully bring to your surface, you're not.

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Syrian rebels don't' want independence...they wan't regime change.

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Some of us have way too much time on our hands. Talking about everything, every time, and everyone must be nice, but if you can't even come up with an example your all-inclusive claims become impotent.

So in other words, nothing to counter it. Gotcha.

Two groups of rebels living side by side who share cultural identity and want independence. I'm afraid I'm grown enough to know that human beings can strike many deals with similarities like that, covertly or otherwise.

Again, pretending to be all knowing and wise has failed miserably. Firstly, the PKK doesn't operate in Syria. Secondly, the Syrian rebels want a regime change not independence from Syria. The PKK wants independence from Turkey, not a regime change.

That really isn't hard to understand. I'm surprised you keep missing it, despite you self confessed "intelligence", the evidence of which I have yet to see.

It's a pedantic exercise to try so hard to impose your ridiculous world view on others through inflated language and insult.

Practice what you preach before you lecture others, mate. Would do so much for your credibility.

Many here are worth my time. Due mainly to your many teenaged anger issues I seem to painfully bring to your surface, you're not.

I can't help that you're everything you say that you're not. You want to pretend that anything you say actually makes sense to an educated crowd, go ahead. Don't go crying like a little baby when someone says that you're wrong.

All your inflated ego and petty insults are doing is making you look more and more ridiculous every single time you post. If more than one person is telling you that what you say is wrong, you are wrong. Simple as that.

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Syrian rebels don't' want independence...they wan't regime change.

Independence from their regimes is a goal they pursue mutually.

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So in other words, nothing to counter it. Gotcha.

Again, pretending to be all knowing and wise has failed miserably. Firstly, the PKK doesn't operate in Syria. Secondly, the Syrian rebels want a regime change not independence from Syria. The PKK wants independence from Turkey, not a regime change.

That really isn't hard to understand. I'm surprised you keep missing it, despite you self confessed "intelligence", the evidence of which I have yet to see.

Practice what you preach before you lecture others, mate. Would do so much for your credibility.

I can't help that you're everything you say that you're not. You want to pretend that anything you say actually makes sense to an educated crowd, go ahead. Don't go crying like a little baby when someone says that you're wrong.

All your inflated ego and petty insults are doing is making you look more and more ridiculous every single time you post. If more than one person is telling you that what you say is wrong, you are wrong. Simple as that.

I spanked you way too hard apparently. I'll be more gentle from now on (i.e. ignoring your personality disorder).

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I spanked you way too hard apparently. I'll be more gentle from now on (i.e. ignoring your personality disorder).

Kinky. I didn't know you were a homosexual. That's cool though. My best friend is bisexual.

Also, and I know you don't want to admit it, but you were schooled. Be the man you claim to be and admit you were wrong, instead of acting the fool.

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Kinky. I didn't know you were a homosexual. That's cool though. My best friend is bisexual.

Also, and I know you don't want to admit it, but you were schooled. Be the man you claim to be and admit you were wrong, instead of acting the fool.

Except what was I wrong about? You? You're really a nice guy after all?

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I'm assuming he's referring to your claim that the Syrian rebels are looking for independence from Syria and they have the same goals as the Kurdish rebels, which isn't the case.

Anyway to drag the thread away from the flame war seems Syrian troops have opened fire over the Turkish border, something they're already doing in Lebanon. Thanks to last minute government demands it looks like the peace deal isn't going to work. Might only be a matter of time before Turkey takes action.

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I'm assuming he's referring to your claim that the Syrian rebels are looking for independence from Syria and they have the same goals as the Kurdish rebels, which isn't the case.

Anyway to drag the thread away from the flame war seems Syrian troops have opened fire over the Turkish border, something they're already doing in Lebanon. Thanks to last minute government demands it looks like the peace deal isn't going to work. Might only be a matter of time before Turkey takes action.

What worries me that Syria has not even apologised to Turkey or to anyone.

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Guess they figure as long as Russia and China is in their corner they can flip everyone off. Though it's sounding as if Russia is getting a little annoyed.

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Except what was I wrong about? You? You're really a nice guy after all?

Everything you claimed. It's either incorrect or a blantant fabrication. You were wrong about what you claimed. Admit it and move on.

Guess they figure as long as Russia and China is in their corner they can flip everyone off. Though it's sounding as if Russia is getting a little annoyed.

Moscow's probably coming to the realisation that Assad's more of a liability now than he was at the start of the uprising. But this latest action will provide a handy casus belli for the Turkish to intervene in Syria, as they seem to be itching to do so. Assad should probably reign in his forces, or face the wrath of the Turkish Army.

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Everything you claimed. It's either incorrect or a blantant fabrication. You were wrong about what you claimed. Admit it and move on.

Moscow's probably coming to the realisation that Assad's more of a liability now than he was at the start of the uprising. But this latest action will provide a handy casus belli for the Turkish to intervene in Syria, as they seem to be itching to do so. Assad should probably reign in his forces, or face the wrath of the Turkish Army.

I don't think Erdog has the cajones to take on Assad's chem/bio. This is the reason Iran's possession of a nuke is so distressing. Once protected by the bomb they will be able to make mischief in any way they choose.

Turkey has a well trained and powerful military but it is insufficient to stop a barrage of chem/bio scuds.

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[/b]

I don't think Erdog has the cajones to take on Assad's chem/bio. This is the reason Iran's possession of a nuke is so distressing. Once protected by the bomb they will be able to make mischief in any way they choose.

Turkey has a well trained and powerful military but it is insufficient to stop a barrage of chem/bio scuds.

I'm surprised Assad didn't use them against the rebels. But he knows that the Turkish will be p***ed at anything done near or within their territory.

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Well we all know what happened after when Saddam Hussain used Chemical weapons..

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Well we all know what happened after when Saddam Hussain used Chemical weapons..

I didn't say it would be rational ;) But Assad has been acting rationally so far ..... cruel in the extreme but still rational. I'd worry more if he began to lose. Like if Russia gave him up and NATO started bombing like in Libya. Or if Erdog actually did mount a large operation to seize a portion of northern Syria for the rebels to use as a sanctuary. But I don't see that happening.

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[/b]

I don't think Erdog has the cajones to take on Assad's chem/bio. This is the reason Iran's possession of a nuke is so distressing. Once protected by the bomb they will be able to make mischief in any way they choose.

Turkey has a well trained and powerful military but it is insufficient to stop a barrage of chem/bio scuds.

Right now it's only Turkey who seems to be seriously considering any military action. If Syria goes and using chemical and bio weapons not only would they lose any moral high ground, and thus any real support from Russia or China, but Turkey would then be justifed in bringing in NATO (though people around here would still howl about an American plot). Would likely also cause several members of the Arab League to jump in.

If Assad were to break out his big guns he'd be boned.

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Right now it's only Turkey who seems to be seriously considering any military action. If Syria goes and using chemical and bio weapons not only would they lose any moral high ground, and thus any real support from Russia or China, but Turkey would then be justifed in bringing in NATO (though people around here would still howl about an American plot). Would likely also cause several members of the Arab League to jump in.

If Assad were to break out his big guns he'd be boned.

He'd still be boned anyway. The Turkish are itching to get into Syria. Any further violence on their borders will most likely be interpereted as a threat and dealt with in the appropriate manner.

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