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Florida man lives to tell of 'shoot first' horror

MIAMI (Reuters) - On June 5, 2006, not long after Florida enacted the first "Stand Your Ground" law in the United States, unarmed Jason Rosenbloom was shot in the stomach and chest by his next-door neighbor after a shouting match over trash.

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Posted (edited)

Court of Public Opinion is now in session, Judge Obama presiding:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/2709583/president-trayvon-case-a-tragedy.html

I don't know why Florida thinks it can handle its own affairs, just let the Federal government take over this one as usual. Silly rabbit!

I hope Obama can do something, otherwise the NAACP will just have to take it to the UN:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1562582

Edited by Illuminerdi

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There is no statistic that proves that general gun ownership makes a society safer. In fact, I live in a country where gun ownership is strictly regulate, and the general crime rate is immensely lower than in the US. And if you look at crimes involving guns, or even killings, the numbers differ even more.

I admit that my comment was a bit "inane" because of the sarcasm I used, but I just wanted to point out that general gun-ownership creates a lot of misery. I am glad the neighborhood watches over here do not carry guns.

Not to derail the thread, but there is a good deal of evidence (some disputed I'll freely admit) that legal concealed carry in the states that allow it does reduce the overall rate of violent crime.

Your comparison between the US and European countries is somewhat apples to oranges because the US, rightly or wrongly, already had a gun crime problem before concealed carry legislation started sweeping the land and what has been found over the past 15-20 years is that crime rates have gone down in those states that have passed the legislation.

And while saying that gun ownership causes misery is somewhat accurate, it's important to differentiate between LEGAL and ILLEGAL gun ownership. The rates of gun crimes committed by legally licensed owners is statistically insignificant compared to those committed by illegal owners.

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Court of Public Opinion is now in session, Judge Obama presiding:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/2709583/president-trayvon-case-a-tragedy.html

I don't know why Florida thinks it can handle its own affairs, just let the Federal government take over this one as usual. Silly rabbit!

I hope Obama can do something, otherwise the NAACP will just have to take it to the UN:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1562582

This is from the first article:

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney also issued a statement Friday about the case.

“What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy,” Romney said “There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

And the second has nothing to do with this case. It's about voter ID laws.

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Posted (edited)

This is from the first article:

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney also issued a statement Friday about the case.

“What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy,” Romney said “There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

And the second has nothing to do with this case. It's about voter ID laws.

I don't disagree that it should be investigated if the Justice Dept thinks it might be a hate crime. What I object is politicians jumping on the bandwagon of a tragedy. I think Al Sharpton is a publicity hound, I think Obama is advancing a gun control agenda as has been discussed elsewhere in this thread, not to mention similar cases which gave not garnered attention, why do they single this one out? Of course the pundits on the left all make Zimmerman out to be poster boy for GOP racist white America. That's where Mitt Romney comes in, hopefully he will step in it and get the CNN sound byte of the day as far as they are concerned. It's completely ridiculous.

Edited by Illuminerdi

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I don't disagree that it should be investigated if the Justice Dept thinks it might be a hate crime. What I object is politicians jumping on the bandwagon of a tragedy. I think Al Sharpton is a publicity hound, I think Obama is advancing a gun control agenda as has been discussed elsewhere in this thread, not to mention similar cases which gave not garnered attention, why do they single this one out? Of course the pundits on the left all make Zimmerman out to be poster boy for GOP racist white America. That's where Mitt Romney comes in, hopefully he will step in it and get the CNN sound byte of the day as far as they are concerned. It's completely ridiculous.

I just want it investigated and I want Zimmerman punished.

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The guy is a racist .. he is also violently dangerous. Lock the fool up.

On that note I find it interesting that the media didn't bother to mention the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic. Not that Hispanics can't be racist, it just made better headlines when we all envisioned George as an angry white guy.

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On that note I find it interesting that the media didn't bother to mention the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic. Not that Hispanics can't be racist, it just made better headlines when we all envisioned George as an angry white guy.

If he were black I'd be saying the same thing. He should be in prison. This is murder.

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Posted (edited)

I just want it investigated and I want Zimmerman punished.

It doesn't sounds like you don't REALLY want an investigation. You want a Jesse Jackson style investigation. Everyone who harmed a black person is guilty regardless of small details like evidence and due process.

Edited by bigtroutak

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I'm not entirely sure the police are building any case. The Police Chief has gone on record stating there is no evidence to doubt Zimmerman's testimony of what occurred (Zimmerman alleges the youth attacked him, and he shot him in self-defence).

There is also this...

...which may suggest the Police Dept of Sanford, Florida are less than exemplary in dealing with crimes against black people.

I hope, if the FBI do get involved, they can provide a voice analysis of the 911 calls to ascertain who it was screaming for help - as Zimmerman asserts that was him. However, the testimonies of the callers to 911 all seem to suggest the screams were from the youth.

I'm not too sure why this has become an ethnic issue? Seems equality gets the boot the minute something negative happens to a person of race, otherwise it's "we're all equal, we have the same rights don't look at skin color we're all the same until something happens to us then it's automatically a race issue" when if it were TRUE equality there shouldn't be the questing of race at all. It's simply a man killed another man. No race involved. Especially in this case, it wasn't a hate crime, it wasn't racially motivated.

Are we suggesting because of the fact that he's African American means he was attacked for that reason and innocent? I do believe Zimmerman should be held absolutely accountable and face trial for this. However, Zimmerman didn't make it a race issue. The 911 operator asked what race the suspect was. Zimmerman didn't say " There's some black guy up to no good!" or anything of the like. It wasn't until the operator asked what race he was that it was brought to light.

Listening to the 911 recordings, I believe Zimmerman was telling the truth when the other gentleman came at him with his hand in his waste band etc. When Zimmerman pursued after him, I believe he was attacked as well. However, Zimmerman should NOT have pursued! He also had absolutely NO reason to use deadly force. Zimmerman should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, for murder? No, I don't believe so. However, manslaughter, wreckless endangerment and much more, yes.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not too sure why this has become an ethnic issue? Seems equality gets the boot the minute something negative happens to a person of race, otherwise it's "we're all equal, we have the same rights don't look at skin color we're all the same until something happens to us then it's automatically a race issue" when if it were TRUE equality there shouldn't be the questing of race at all. It's simply a man killed another man. No race involved. Especially in this case, it wasn't a hate crime, it wasn't racially motivated.

Are we suggesting because of the fact that he's African American means he was attacked for that reason and innocent? I do believe Zimmerman should be held absolutely accountable and face trial for this. However, Zimmerman didn't make it a race issue. The 911 operator asked what race the suspect was. Zimmerman didn't say " There's some black guy up to no good!" or anything of the like. It wasn't until the operator asked what race he was that it was brought to light.

Listening to the 911 recordings, I believe Zimmerman was telling the truth when the other gentleman came at him with his hand in his waste band etc. When Zimmerman pursued after him, I believe he was attacked as well. However, Zimmerman should NOT have pursued! He also had absolutely NO reason to use deadly force. Zimmerman should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, for murder? No, I don't believe so. However, manslaughter, wreckless endangerment and much more, yes.

YES!!!! :tu: And I don't care what color any of them are. This is the case!

Edited by conspiracybeliever

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See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

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The guy is a racist .. he is also violently dangerous. Lock the fool up.

Not sure how I missed this.... How can you make such claims? Where did anything that was mentioned or replay of the 911 recordings suggest Zimmerman was racist? Refer to my previous post regarding this situation. Because a white man killed a black man, he's automatically racist?? Nothing erks me quite like the obligatory race card being played any time something happens to a person of race. I understand and agree there actually ARE hate crimes that happen and they truly need to be dealt with harshly, and not to just Blacks, Hispanics, Asians but increasingly white people as well, however this wasn't the case in this situation.

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See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Yes, thank you for pointing this out. Hopefully Zimmerman gets charged with something equal to his actions, which in this case are bad judgement and over-reacting. He exhibited bad judgement by chasing Trayvon and not allowing local law enforcement to do their jobs, as well as he over reacted when using deadly force. However, I don't believe he wasn't completely justified by protecting himself. As I said, manslaughter, wreckless endangerment would be decent punishments.

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Posted (edited)

See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Doesn't this "stand your ground" law also apply to Trayvon who, after all, was the one being followed by someone he didn't know in the dark? This Zimmerman doesn't appear to have identified himself in any way or said anything to the teen about why he was being followed. Cut and dry, Zimmerman should not have been carrying a gun. He had no cause to shoot. He should have told the boy he was with a watch group and maybe the kid wouldn't have gotten defensive. Zimmerman was out to make a bust whether it was deserved or not (big hero), which it would have been proven the kid was innocent of any wrongdoing. It isn't illegal to walk to the store after dark. A curfew doesn't even come into play here.

Edited by susieice

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Posted (edited)

See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Not really.

It seems that some of the witnesses did observe a fight (or struggle), but no-one made any statement about who 'attacked' who. Who may have got the upper hand in a resulting fracas does not indicate who was the initial aggressor, either.

The only circumstantial evidence we have regarding who may have been "the aggressor", is the phone conversation records which indicate Zimmerman actively pursued Martin, for no reason other than "he looked suspicious". As far as I am aware, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not cover one's actions if one actively seeks a confrontation.

ColoradoParanormal,

However, I don't believe he wasn't completely justified by protecting himself.

The "Stand Your Ground" law does not legalise shooting someone just because they are beating you in a fight you started.

I am not saying Zimmerman started a fight, but by pursuing Martin he did assume the role of "aggressor".

Edited by Leonardo

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On that note I find it interesting that the media didn't bother to mention the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic. Not that Hispanics can't be racist, it just made better headlines when we all envisioned George as an angry white guy.

That's a great point. Until I was able to look into it more I thought a Older white guy shot a 10 year old black kid.

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Not really.

It seems that some of the witnesses did observe a fight (or struggle), but no-one made any statement about who 'attacked' who. Who may have got the upper hand in a resulting fracas does not indicate who was the initial aggressor, either.

The only circumstantial evidence we have regarding who may have been "the aggressor", is the phone conversation records which indicate Zimmerman actively pursued Martin, for no reason other than "he looked suspicious". As far as I am aware, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not cover one's actions if one actively seeks a confrontation.

ColoradoParanormal,

I am not saying Zimmerman started a fight, but by pursuing Martin he did assume the role of "aggressor".

Careful. What you said here is not good for the prosecution.

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The guy is a racist .. he is also violently dangerous. Lock the fool up.

These are the kinds of comments and the kind of thinking that makes everything a race issue. A Hispanic man shot a 17 year old black person. That is not necessarily a race issue.

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These are the kinds of comments and the kind of thinking that makes everything a race issue. A Hispanic man shot a 17 year old black person. That is not necessarily a race issue.

Actually it very well could be. There are some black people who are extremely racist. Not saying it is but....

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Hopefully the lady prosecutor will bring justice. Saw her on TV somewhere, and it sounds that way.

Cold-blooded murder is what it was. Such a damn shame! :no:

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Posted (edited)

After reading the comments here and elsewhere, with a dash yesterday of Obama's concern for the young man who looked like he "could have been my son"... I repeat what the trusted MSM and federal government's favorite divide and conquer technique is... collectivism. The collectivists favorite issues are racial divides, sexual preference divides and religious divides. The front page of MSM sites prove this. They are riddled with these stories at a time when the nation is currently in its 10 year in an undefined war, the economy sucks and rampant voter fraud being committed during the GOP primaries and caucuses.

A crime is a crime regardless the motives. Motives are for post treatment not determining the verdict. We're all imperfect human beings living together on an imperfect planet... people become fearful, act out in fear and make terrible mistakes and than desperately try to coverup these mistakes there after. But the collectivists are quick to jump and use their division technique by separating everybody into groups thus creating the issues and sadly more victims.

Edited by acidhead

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After reading the comments here and elsewhere, with a dash yesterday of Obama's concern for the young man who looked like he "could have been my son"... I repeat what the trusted MSM and federal government's favorite divide and conquer technique is... collectivism. The collectivists favorite issues are racial divides, sexual preference divides and religious divides. The front page of MSM sites prove this. They are riddled with these stories at a time when the nation is currently in its 10 year in an undefined war, the economy sucks and rampant voter fraud being committed during the GOP primaries and caucuses.

A crime is a crime regardless the motives. Motives are for post treatment not determining the verdict. We're all imperfect human beings living together on an imperfect planet... people become fearful, act out in fear and make terrible mistakes and than desperately try to coverup these mistakes there after. But the collectivists are quick to jump and use their division technique by separating everybody into groups thus creating the issues and sadly more victims.

I agree with what you are saying. Still a crime is a crime and this was a crime. No matter what color anyone was or is it is still a crime and Zimmerman should be punished. I do have to say if this were my child I would be thinking that my child was murdered and they are saying it is his fault. He was doing nothing wrong. He was murdered. And it's the obsession with crime in this country. And once again the real criminal is walking the streets while the innocent has paid with his life. And it's all entertainment to most. Very sad.

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Actually it very well could be. There are some black people who are extremely racist. Not saying it is but....

I agree that it could be. But........ The media has already portrayed this as a "white on black" crime.

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lightly, on 22 March 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

The guy is a racist .. he is also violently dangerous. Lock the fool up.

These are the kinds of comments and the kind of thinking that makes everything a race issue. A Hispanic man shot a 17 year old black person. That is not necessarily a race issue.

ColoradoParanormal said:

Not sure how I missed this.... How can you make such claims? Where did anything that was mentioned or replay of the 911 recordings suggest Zimmerman was racist? Refer to my previous post regarding this situation. Because a white man killed a black man, he's automatically racist?? Nothing erks me quite like the obligatory race card being played any time something happens to a person of race. I understand and agree there actually ARE hate crimes that happen and they truly need to be dealt with harshly, and not to just Blacks, Hispanics, Asians but increasingly white people as well, however this wasn't the case in this situation.

You guys are right.... i rushed to judgement based on things i heard that were not verifiable FACT ..

I can't view, or hear, the video without a lot of hassle.

I heard that zimmerman muttered under his breath on his phone call .. " *****n C**n " and " THEY always get away" .. which is where i got the impression that he might be racist.

I also heard that zimmerman had been charged in the past with assaulting a police officer.. , which is where i got the impression that the man might have a tendency for violence, I don't know for a FACT if that is true either. Anyway... i was wrong to make assumptions based on flimsy "news" statements.

That's a lesson we all should learn.

I'm glad to see that the young man's death is at least being looked into now.. instead of casually brushed aside as a rightful "stand your ground" killing. That bothered me. Maybe there enough laws on the books without making up new ones to make it easier to kill each other?

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