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Saru

Homeopathy 'biologically implausible'

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Leading researchers have warned that homeopathy is not only ineffective but potentially dangerous.

Edzard Ernst, Professor of Complementary Medicine at Exeter University, said homeopathic remedies had not been proven to work in clinical trials. People who still maintain the treatments are effective are "ignoring or misrepresenting the best evidence available", he added.

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Wouldn't being healed by taking sugar pills be also implausale? It just proves that it isn't the medicine that heals...it's the belief that heals. We heal ourselves but we have lost that belief. So we need a medicine to believe in. Just like belief in god. We forget that we create our own reality so we attribute the creation to some god. We forget that we heal ourselves so we attribute the healing to some medicine.

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the key sentence in that article is : "foregoing proper medical care".

Translation : not buying into our scheister system and making US money .

Homeopathy is very old,and people have used it for decades.

If it was that ineffective,it would have been made redundant ,decades ago.

IT WORKS ON ANIMALS.As does acupuncture .No animal is going to have a belief this will work .They have no idea whats being done to them .

This is what TOTALLY NEGATES *all* alleged studies saying alternative cures only work because we think it will.

It works on animals,who have no such predisposition .

And any "expert" that claims any alternative therapy doesnt work ,probably owns big pharm stocks .lolz

Most medical school professors at ivy league schools own pharm stocks,so what is it you think they teach their students .

DDDDDDDUUUUUHHHHHH....

:blink:

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Many things are implausible by our current scientific standards. It doesn't mean that they can't be comprehended, once we solve for the variables. Personally, I'll stick with homeopathy and acupuncture where indicated. They work for me, without carrying the far more dangerous side effects and interactions of pharmaceutical drugs so rampantly out of control in our society.

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IT WORKS ON ANIMALS.As does acupuncture .No animal is going to have a belief this will work .They have no idea whats being done to them.

This is what TOTALLY NEGATES *all* alleged studies saying alternative cures only work because we think it will.

Sorry to see you have failed to do your homework. You are forgetting the person carrying out the healing. What about them? Do they have no belief in the procedure? Oh wait, if they didn't they wouldn't be doing the healing. Well in that case, could it be that their belief may have some sort of effect on the healing process? If you do more research you will find that when researchers are investigating for example clairvoyance, they have realized that they have to take into account the researchers' beliefs, as they will influence the results just as well as the beliefs of the subjects do. This showed when a group of scientists were asked to investigate the results of an alleged ESP experiment. The results were collected by another group of researchers, but the results were not looked at. The investigating researchers found the usual small but consistent and statistically substantive deviation from "results that'd be due to chance alone". The trick was, the subjects doing the tests were non-believers, and were NOT asked to concentrate on anything during the test, so it was a pure chance experiment. So it turns out, the tree in the wood is not really there until there is someone to look at it. If you're asked to heal an animal with the laying on of hands but you don't believe in it, it won't work.

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Many things are implausible by our current scientific standards. It doesn't mean that they can't be comprehended, once we solve for the variables. Personally, I'll stick with homeopathy and acupuncture where indicated. They work for me, without carrying the far more dangerous side effects and interactions of pharmaceutical drugs so rampantly out of control in our society.

No one is saying you can't drink water and eat sugar pills, but calling them a medical treatment is outright ignorance.

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Posted (edited)

Wouldn't being healed by taking sugar pills be also implausale? It just proves that it isn't the medicine that heals...it's the belief that heals. We heal ourselves but we have lost that belief. So we need a medicine to believe in. Just like belief in god. We forget that we create our own reality so we attribute the creation to some god. We forget that we heal ourselves so we attribute the healing to some medicine.

facepalm-1.gif

You do realise clinical trials are run with a placebo?

You're making it sound like everything is one big placebo effect. If belief is all that mattered, no one would ever get unwittingly drugged or poisoned.

Edited by Rlyeh

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No one is saying you can't drink water and eat sugar pills, but calling them a medical treatment is outright ignorance.

No one is saying you can't ingest pills with God only knows what in them, but trying to alleviate symptoms rather than healing the root cause is outright ignorance. It's like, if you're an intolerable person and your marriage isn't working, you get divorced, and in your next marriage you're surprised you find yourself in the same situation. So you "take another pill" (get divorced again) hoping that it will "cure" things. Could it be that maybe you need to look into yourself instead? Sounds simple, still not many people actually try it. Weird...

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to see you have failed to do your homework. You are forgetting the person carrying out the healing. What about them? Do they have no belief in the procedure? Oh wait, if they didn't they wouldn't be doing the healing. Well in that case, could it be that their belief may have some sort of effect on the healing process? If you do more research you will find that when researchers are investigating for example clairvoyance, they have realized that they have to take into account the researchers' beliefs, as they will influence the results just as well as the beliefs of the subjects do. This showed when a group of scientists were asked to investigate the results of an alleged ESP experiment. The results were collected by another group of researchers, but the results were not looked at. The investigating researchers found the usual small but consistent and statistically substantive deviation from "results that'd be due to chance alone". The trick was, the subjects doing the tests were non-believers, and were NOT asked to concentrate on anything during the test, so it was a pure chance experiment. So it turns out, the tree in the wood is not really there until there is someone to look at it. If you're asked to heal an animal with the laying on of hands but you don't believe in it, it won't work.

The healer believes in the process of course,but youre pretty much saying,a healer can heal anyone or anything,merely by their intent .

That is the premise behind qi gong healing .

However,that also totally negates the whole psychosematic issue presented here.

2 different animals .

Psychosematic healing is :The only reason the patient gets better,is because their mind is making it so.

Not even i think horses that get acupuncture,get better because the acupuncturist wills it .

No way do they know the acupuncture is to make them well or in better form.

(ALL,as in ALL racehorses,get acupuncture on a regular basis)

A sick animal,if its disease is beyond help,will succumb,wether the practioner puts chi into the meridians or not .

And thanks,but i have no need to do homework on alternative therapies or how they work .

I have a basic understanding of homeopathy ,and i have my doctorate in chinese medicine.

My degree means i can do acupuncture ,dispense chinese herbs,and have an extensive understanding of both.

We take board exams to get licensed btw,just like an MD.

4 days worth of boards.

Im also a practitioner of craniosacal therapy,and I was a nyc paramedic for a lloonnnngggg time.

I know eastern,and western medicine .This is where my bias comes from ......

Edited by missymoo999

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Posted (edited)

Wouldn't being healed by taking sugar pills be also implausale? It just proves that it isn't the medicine that heals...it's the belief that heals. We heal ourselves but we have lost that belief. So we need a medicine to believe in. Just like belief in god. We forget that we create our own reality so we attribute the creation to some god. We forget that we heal ourselves so we attribute the healing to some medicine.

No, healing by sugar pills is not implausible because only certain things can be cured by the placebo effect. Pain responds the best to the placebo effect which makes a lot of sense because we have systems that have an ability to reduce pain and it is the same one involved in he placebo effect. Also, acute viral infections clear faster with the placebo effect, which also makes perfect sense. People who think they are being treated behave in a way which actually does speed the clearance of the virus. On the other hand bacterial and parasitic infections do not respond well to the placebo effect which also makes a lot of sense when you know what is actually going on. So, these are measurable effects and can be explained quite easily. We do not create our own reality, but we do have more control over our biological systems than we think.

Edited by FurthurBB

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Posted (edited)

No one is saying you can't ingest pills with God only knows what in them, but trying to alleviate symptoms rather than healing the root cause is outright ignorance. It's like, if you're an intolerable person and your marriage isn't working, you get divorced, and in your next marriage you're surprised you find yourself in the same situation. So you "take another pill" (get divorced again) hoping that it will "cure" things. Could it be that maybe you need to look into yourself instead? Sounds simple, still not many people actually try it. Weird...

And sugar pills with water will do that for you?

Maybe it will treat tetanus and syphilis too?

Edited by Rlyeh

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the key sentence in that article is : "foregoing proper medical care".

Translation : not buying into our scheister system and making US money .

Homeopathy is very old,and people have used it for decades.

If it was that ineffective,it would have been made redundant ,decades ago.

IT WORKS ON ANIMALS.As does acupuncture .No animal is going to have a belief this will work .They have no idea whats being done to them .

This is what TOTALLY NEGATES *all* alleged studies saying alternative cures only work because we think it will.

It works on animals,who have no such predisposition .

And any "expert" that claims any alternative therapy doesnt work ,probably owns big pharm stocks .lolz

Most medical school professors at ivy league schools own pharm stocks,so what is it you think they teach their students .

DDDDDDDUUUUUHHHHHH....

:blink:

Just agreeing with what she(?) said.

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I totally believe that Homeopathy is a scam. It is not even the substance that does the "healing" is the the "spirit" of the substance that does the healing. Test after test. Trial after trial have shown this not to be a true medical treatment. Not any more then placebo effect anyway. Medicines that are prescribed by a doctor do not work that way. The medicine has a known effect on a known oomponent of the body. This chemical interacts with that receptor...

Homeopathy is just a D&D healing potion.

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And thanks,but i have no need to do homework on alternative therapies or how they work .

I have a basic understanding of homeopathy ,and i have my doctorate in chinese medicine.

My degree means i can do acupuncture ,dispense chinese herbs,and have an extensive understanding of both.

We take board exams to get licensed btw,just like an MD.

4 days worth of boards.

Ahhh... That explains a lot of your positions on these forums.

:tu:

The entire idea of Homeopathy requires belief in Water Memory. And that the water in the concoction retains the properties of the medicine/herb used, even after there is nothing left of the medicine or herb in the water. Science has shown that "water memory" is only possible for thousands of a nano-second. So to believe in homeopathy one must first suspect belief in science and the scientific method.

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Hmmmm. So people cannot be cured by taking a diluted form of the illness . So much for vaccines .

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Hmmmm. So people cannot be cured by taking a diluted form of the illness . So much for vaccines .

Yeah, not at all the same thing, but I think you know that.

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Hmmmm. So people cannot be cured by taking a diluted form of the illness . So much for vaccines .

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure that's really an accurate comparison.

A vaccine is an attenuated form of the illness causing agent.

Homeopathy is an almost infinitely diluted form of a substance that causes similar symptoms to the illness.

There's a huge difference.

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For people who learn better by watching things then reading, I found a good video where a guy explains homeopathy.

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Posted (edited)

Ahhh... That explains a lot of your positions on these forums.

:tu:

The entire idea of Homeopathy requires belief in Water Memory. And that the water in the concoction retains the properties of the medicine/herb used, even after there is nothing left of the medicine or herb in the water. Science has shown that "water memory" is only possible for thousands of a nano-second. So to believe in homeopathy one must first suspect belief in science and the scientific method.

Forgive my ire,I am just very passionate about it all,given my experiences on both sides of the coin.

I just have no respect for western medicine anymore.I lived for my job once upon a time,and I almost went to medical school.I thank god every day that I didn't.

I've watched western medicine go from a great thing,to a degenerate money making machine,at the expense of loved ones lives.

I will tell you why I believe homeopathy works.

I didn't believe in it .

We are talking 2002 ish. I was already immersed in Chinese medicine,and I was still working on the ambulance part time.

Some of these meds,are both in homeopathy and Chinese medicine,but not all.

If you read homeopathy notes,they say things like ,symptoms include screaming,fearfulness,yelping .

That right there makes me go wtf?

The premise is to fight like with like.

I ignored it all until....

I had adopted a very unusual cat ,in June of that year. I still have him.

He had been badly abused in ways I cannot even go into.

The day I took him home,he went into status asthmaticus.

He got numerous shots,because he would not tollerate anything by mouth.

He still won't.He has paws like a small puma,his claws HURT .I had to buy Kevlar animal handlers gloves ,to handle him when hes grumpy.

So he had an attack,per month .

Shots of steroid ,so frequently,will just destroy adrenals over time.

Also,he scratched the vet,and it was as if he was being abused again,every time I took him for shots.

People recommended that feline asthma inhaler.

Yah,not happening.

Then,late in the year,he went into status asthmaticus again.Worse than ever .

He got so many shots,so many vet visits,over 2 weeks,it was agony.

Nothing broke the episode.

I realized later,it was because I changed the kitty litter to Feline Pine.

(feline pine has stuff in it like pine sol .not good for asthmatics)

When he finally pulled out of it,I said,I have to find an alternative to this.I was thinking of herbs,but I wasn't sure ephedra was a good idea for him .

A friend of mine,at this time ,said,"take him to my vet.I won't take my animals to anyone else."

Shes a homeopathic vet.

I was dubious,and she was $$$,but I had to try something.

He scratched her,and pooped on her.

She gave me 2 remedies for him.

I was taking him in for monthly episodes at this time,without fail.Sometimes he went into it 2x a month.

I gave him the remedies,as directed,and he had one more attack the following month,which is common with homeopathy.

So he got the homeopathic meds ,had one attack,and never had one,ever again.Ever .

So we went from 1-2 attacks,monthly,to nothing.

He hasn't had an attack since I think early 2003 it was.

That was enough for me.

I go to her only for tough medical issues .

She saved him,extended one dying cats life,with quality,for six months(she was 24,and in end stage renal failure).

She tried to save my boy with the FIP,as some homeopaths have cured FIP,but nothing worked for him.

FIP is considered 100% fatal.Western medicine gives you no option,so I had nothing to lose im that case.

But that was enough for me.I learned a lot about it during my researching how to control FIP.

FIP was the only time it failed,but then so did everything else.

I know people who take their children to homeopaths,and swear by it.

A friend of mine is an MD,and she took a course in it,and her daughter gets homeopathic meds ,before western ones,because she,as a doctor,has reservations about the state of our pharmaceuticals.

So,I believe in all of this stuff,because in my life,Chinese medicine included,it worked ,where western medicine failed.

I watch doctors barely out of school,totally mess people up,by giving them one drug,which causes all these other issues with side affects,so they give another 3 drugs,to combat the side affects ,and then they seem to be too stupid to make the connection to the original drug.

The patient is on 6 meds ,when all they had was a headache to begin with.

I mean it's pathetic.

That is not to say,that you do not have mds who have a clue and errr on the side of common sense,but they are few and far between now.

So you can all call me the tree hugging herbalist with the big mouth from now on .I wear it proudly .

Edited by missymoo999

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The thing is, millions of people around the world take homeopathic remedies and go on taking them whenever they get ill ...... they are the first thing they reach for ..... why would they go on doing this if they didn't work? If something didn't work, why would you keep using it? To me, the reason WHY the remedies work really doesn't matter because all I'm concerned about is that they DO work! I can treat myself more often than not.

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Posted (edited)

And sugar pills with water will do that for you?

Maybe it will treat tetanus and syphilis too?

So you're saying a paracetamol will cure cancer. Intriguing theory, based on your conclusion (which I have no idea where it came from) that ONE type of alternative medicine cures it all, implying that one orthodox medicine will cure all diseases. FYI, there are several methods, procedures and medications in both fields. No, sugar pills will not cure all diseases, just like paracetamol will not cure... well, anything really. But why does someone need to be told all this? I thought you'd figure out as much. You look at the disease, determine the root cause and apply the relevant treatment. Not rocket science. Where have you been? Are you like 6 years old or what?

Edited by Rolci

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The thing is, millions of people around the world take homeopathic remedies and go on taking them whenever they get ill ...... they are the first thing they reach for ..... why would they go on doing this if they didn't work? If something didn't work, why would you keep using it? To me, the reason WHY the remedies work really doesn't matter because all I'm concerned about is that they DO work! I can treat myself more often than not.

I agree. The shamans knew many healing properties of the plants around them. Where does Aspirin come from? By the time the doctors wanted to learn from the natives about the plants of North America, the natives refused.

Another big problem today is our diets. The amounts of vitamins and minerals are depleted in what we eat, overtaxing of the land, picking the fruits and vegetables way too early, feeding animals a strict diet to encourage their growth and tenderness...I am not saying that medicines are not needed, but there has been so much abuse with them, that is why we are seeing strains of diseases that cannot be treated anymore.

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That was enough for me.

I go to her only for tough medical issues .

She saved him,extended one dying cats life,with quality,for six months(she was 24,and in end stage renal failure).

She tried to save my boy with the FIP,as some homeopaths have cured FIP,but nothing worked for him.

FIP is considered 100% fatal.Western medicine gives you no option,so I had nothing to lose im that case.

But that was enough for me.I learned a lot about it during my researching how to control FIP.

FIP was the only time it failed,but then so did everything else.

I know people who take their children to homeopaths,and swear by it.

A friend of mine is an MD,and she took a course in it,and her daughter gets homeopathic meds ,before western ones,because she,as a doctor,has reservations about the state of our pharmaceuticals.

So,I believe in all of this stuff,because in my life,Chinese medicine included,it worked ,where western medicine failed.

I watch doctors barely out of school,totally mess people up,by giving them one drug,which causes all these other issues with side affects,so they give another 3 drugs,to combat the side affects ,and then they seem to be too stupid to make the connection to the original drug.

The patient is on 6 meds ,when all they had was a headache to begin with.

I mean it's pathetic.

That is not to say,that you do not have mds who have a clue and errr on the side of common sense,but they are few and far between now.

So you can all call me the tree hugging herbalist with the big mouth from now on .I wear it proudly .

You tree hugging herbalist....

Like you didn't see that coming.

I do agree that if you have nothing to loose Alternative Medicine is better then no hope at all.

I also agree that Western medicine concentrates too much on the Treatment and not enough on the Patient.

Also, Homeopaths don't just practice homeopathy, right? They are like naturopaths and Chinese Medicine practicioners who use a combination of techniques not just homeopathy.

I'd still first turn to my Western Medicine doctor, but I would definately try an alternative doctor it I had nothing to loose and everything to gain. But, then, I have really good insurance from work, so I don't have to pay those exorbitant prices that some others would have to.

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Posted (edited)

I gotta disagree with the article. True, I can't think of one logical reason why it should work, but I have tried it once and it was great. I have really severe cat allergies & was dating a guy with a cat; I tried everything to help my reactions and nothing really worked... I ended up trying homeopathy out of sheer desperation (since I was really skeptical of it). While it didn't relieve my allergies 100%, it was way more effective than anything else I tried. lol, and it definitely wasn't the placebo effect, since I went in thinking it probably wouldn't work, but I might as well try...

Edited by firefly128

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I'd still first turn to my Western Medicine doctor, but I would definately try an alternative doctor it I had nothing to loose and everything to gain. But, then, I have really good insurance from work, so I don't have to pay those exorbitant prices that some others would have to.

Haha, I'm the other way around. If I have an infection or an injury, I see a regular doctor. If I have a more subtle problem (like the adrenal fatigue & hormone imbalances I've been healing up from) I see a naturopath - not a homeopath, though, you're right that there's a difference there. My naturopath is basically a regular doctor with a different perspective on how to treat people and an arsenal of herbal medicines. I've gotten great results from seeing her :) But with regular doctors, I've found that with a couple of the problems I've had, I've repeatedly gotten answers along the lines of "Our tests can't find anything wrong with you, but your symptoms clearly are related to hormone imbalances... let's just put you on birth control pills/antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds and forget about it." Great stuff, that.

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