Since I was asked to...

[Subtemperate]

I have an inner ear problem, which causes me to feel very heavy in bed when i get an ear infection of some kind. I also always here buzzing if there is no noise...... So that heaviness could be due to something you were not aware of.....

[Seraphina]

Are you? Not floating away again are you?

See what I mean Lottie? He's actually taken offence to my explanation He believes so wholeheartedly that he had a profound "experience" that he seems to consider the fact that I consider it trivial and easily explained insulting

[Phenomenon]

Good point, but I have been assured that the noises were certainly not down to any ear problems such as otitis-media.

I din't say your opinion was insulting, merely wrong. yuo have made a picture of that night, added a few little extras and tried to explain it away. I feel that you have failed badly, this has nothing to do with my being insulted. I simply suggested that a few points you made are incredibly important in such matters and that they were not part of my article.

Your whole attitude has been one of sarcasm, pretty easy to see. The fact that after 35 years I have only 2 experiences to speak of suggests that I am not prone to making up paranormal events.

Edited September 27, 2004 by phenomenon

[Guest Lottie]

Mr P. I beleive your experience to be genuine but purely because of what is happening in your brain. Are you aware that what you experienced could more likely be hallucinations while falling asleep or waking,a form of Nacrolepsy?

[Phenomenon]

I have looked at all possibilities, but as I stated this thing happened almost straight away. As for narcolepsy, this wouldn't only occur twice, it would be a frequent event.

[Seraphina]

Mr P...I'm going to try one more time...

What I have said...is directly down to the physical account you gave me. I reconstructed the events myself to make sure the conclusion I reached was as accurate as it possibly could be. The fact that your wife, who was lying right next to you, was completely unaware of what happened speaks volumes.

You can choose to ignore this...you can choose to remain convinced what happened to you cannot be explained. That's up to you, and to be honest I don't really care. However, the explanation I gave is perfectly logical given your own testimony.

Now, I'll say again...arguing it over and over isn't going to change that. I've made up my mind about the information you've provided, and highlighting it isn't going to change what it says. The only thing that might change my opinion is some new information..without that, my reasoning stands. All you're doing by trying to dispute the point is using up bandwidth.

[Guest Lottie]

have looked at all possibilities, but as I stated this thing happened almost straight away. As for narcolepsy, this wouldn't only occur twice, it would be a frequent event.

Yes but hallucinations due to a fast reaction from an awake cortical activation to REM -cortical activation is so extremely fast that you would not even be aware of it happening. i.e it happens straight away. And it doesn't have to be an ongoing event it can be random.

[Seraphina]

*pokes herself for replying to a much earlier post by accident*

Edited September 27, 2004 by Seraphina

[Guest Lottie]

If you weren't serious, could that have been one of the reasons you never noticed anything paranormal in the graveyard?

Are there any rules in the 'book' that says you have to be serious on an investigation anyway? If I was a ghost I would not want to play with such 'serious' people. The fact that people are serious on these investigations only enhances the fact that they are desperately trying to see or hear or feel something anyway. And as I said before any little noise or something out of the ordinary will in most cases be put down to 'paranormal events rather than logical events.

[Phenomenon]

It's not about an individual being serious, it's about the investigation being serious.

[Seraphina]

It's not about an individual being serious, it's about the investigation being serious.

Oh, my investigation was quite serious....as much as my report may not have been

I had six people with me...all of whom had varying thoughts and opinions on what we were doing...I remained for an entire hour....I fullfilled all of the criteria set by the challenger, and yet encountered nothing.

However, it's true this wasn't a serious attempt to prove or disprove the existance of ghosts...it was an attempt to disprove a ridiculous claim made by another member that ghosts and demons are prone to hovering around after dark, and that you can "call out" departed relatives from their graves.

[Phenomenon]

Rediculous to you, maybe, not so for others that have heard and seen things.

[Seraphina]

Well Mr P....as Lottie has said...that's the real trick isn't it? What HAVE people seen.

A graveyard, at night, is a place that sets us on edge...it's a place we logically associate with ghosts and goblins, and adding to that darkness, the various sights and sounds of nightime, a great deal of the time people are simply going to think they've seen something that they haven't.

In activly searching for something, I'd say my results are actually far more accurate than someone who was simply walking around after dark, on edge, and not paying too close attention to their surroundings, stumbled upon something they thought was a ghost, and ran away terrified.

[Phenomenon]

Yuo have to remember that very few reports of ghosts actually pertain to a graveyard. many people report seeing ghosts in daylight.

[Guest Lottie]

Yes but hallucinations due to a fast reaction from an awake cortical activation to REM -cortical activation is so extremely fast that you would not even be aware of it happening. i.e it happens straight away. And it doesn't have to be an ongoing event it can be random.

Oh and another thing about what I wrote. Thias would coincide quite nicely with sightings of ghosts etc. Considering most investigations are done late at night, when our natural body clock is running down ready for sleep and most ghost sightings are reported between the hours of 2 and 4 am I would say the brain has alot to do with this and this is conclusive, real evidence to do with the brain.

[Seraphina]

I know, but my investigation was in reference to a specific claim

Obviously, it's very difficult to make any kind of study about ghosts in daylight hours...the only way I'd really be capable of doing so would be to spend an extended period of time during the day in a location assumed to be haunted; between Uni and Work, I don't have a free day at any point during the week to set aside for this

Let us assume, however, that ghosts are wandering around during the day...there have been 500 billion people to have ever lived...even if we assume only a fraction of them return as ghosts, that's still a lot of ghosts wandering around....

If they were making a habit of appearing during the day, wouldn't there be a great deal more encounters than there are?

[Phenomenon]

There seems to be a big myth amongst skeptics that ghosts and goolies only come out to play at night, this simply isn't the case. I have no time for the idiots that walk in to a graveyard late at night, hear an owl and then run for their lives screaming ghosts!

There is a lot of evidence on camera that the skeptics would argue is relfection and lens flare and we would argue the contrary, the point is much of this is in daylight.

Many investigations are done in the evening and not through the night. This sleep theory is fine, but it doens't explain it all.

[Guest Lottie]

Actually this 'sleep theory' explains alot if you read up on it. It becomes very obvious as to what is happening and the proof is absolute with cortical functioning yada yada. And when it comes to overall reports on ghost sightings it make pretty good common sense to me.

See, it is still easy to push away a perfectly logical explanation to all of this and pretend that its still something else.

[Seraphina]

*wonders why Lottie's sleep theory is "fine", and her sleep theory is "her own little thing", just because Lottie used bigger words, when they both said the exact same thing*

[Phenomenon]

See, it is still easy to push away a perfectly logical explanation to all of this and pretend that its still something else

Pretend, who's pretending. Let me explain something to you about paranormal investigations. They are generally done with several people. Now you are trying to tell me that if 2, maybe 3 people witness a possible paranormal event they are all suffering from some sleep disorder at the same time?

[Guest Lottie]

Oh one more thing Mr P. I do not claim in any sense to be all knowing...I just use my noodle. I have been in the past on loads of investigations and know the 'procedures.' Alas these investigations have surfaced nothing substantial and nothing conclusive, except for group hysteria and possibly has proven some link between people and the ability to move objects..i.e table rapping.

[blazer2004]

half these people dont know whats it like to see a ghost most would be paralized with fear thats how it goes down thats how it is

[Phenomenon]

phenomenon will do fine, please dont refer to me as Mr P.

3 people on an investigation see something that has no logical explanation.

explain.....

[Seraphina]

Now you are trying to tell me that if 2, maybe 3 people witness a possible paranormal event they are all suffering from some sleep disorder at the same time?

It's been seen, over and over again, that eye witness accounts are simply not viable. People are very prone indeed to "fill in the blanks", or simply make things up, depending on what they THOUGHT they say.

This is usually discovered in criminal investigations...question twenty eye witnesses who all say the same thing, and you'll get many, many different accounts of what happened. If a person isn't sure what they saw, they'll make it up, and actually believe what they're saying.

For three people who all think they saw something similar...that would depend what it was, and on the situation....I could believe that say..if one person saw something they thought was a ghost, it's pretty logical that others might think the same thing...

Let's face it, three people who report the same thing doesn't mean everyone who saw it saw what they did...

For example, let's say something is seen in a residential area, in the middle of the night....

Five people the next morning, each from different households, claim they saw a ghost, at the same time of night....some would conclude this meant a ghost was walking around.

Thing is, for those five who thought it was a ghost, there are probably a hundred who thought it was a homeless bum Just people who mistook said bum for a ghost are the only ones who'll take the time to report it, and theirs is the only story that gets heard....doesn't mean it's the truth.

[blazer2004]

your gona find ghosts mostley in grave yards or houses mostley old houses some times you will find them in some satanic place like lets say cliton road in nj