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DieChecker

Tracking Belief in Bigfoot

125 posts in this topic

Yeah, I saw that as well on Ancient Aliens. WOW! is really all I can say. I sat in front of the TV with a confused look on my face for the entire show. I really could not believe that grown, educated people could come up with some of the crap that was spewing from their mouths. Of course whats his name with the funny hair thought everything was an alien, but the rest were coming up with some off the wall stuff. Bigfoot was actually a race of workers created by aliens with human dna to mine precious metals from the earth. They move about through an intricate maze of cave systems under the earth. This is why we don't see them very often. It was interesting to say the least.

Mike

I knew that there was a reason I intentionally avoided watching this series after a while... but damned if I don't have some kind of morbid curiosity which is compelling me to pull this up on YouTube and subject myself to the nonsense right now... :lol:

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I believed in Bigfoot until that show came on with the BFRO and the term Squatch.

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I think that when trying to disaggregate data samples like this it may be helpful to know the makeup of the sample to a degree, but unhelpful to cast about with stereotypes of one group or another.

I don't think I said anything even close to being controversial, but please do elaborate. I always enjoy being harassed for no particular reason by the political & social correctness Nazis.

Not all religious people are bible-thumping, chicken-swinging fundamentalists.

Please show me where I said all religious people are as you described above. Could it be you are stereotyping me as a religious bigot merely because I asked the question?

Within every possible subgroup of the population that you could possibly think of, there is going to be a spectrum of folks ranging from one extreme to the other.

A truly remarkable insight into our social structure, :blink: and one that I am aware of, believe it or not. Since you are aware that there are outliers in every group then you should also be aware that being politically and socially correct 100% of the time makes it impossible to say anything about anything with out offending someone.

I for one will not allow you or anyone to tell me what is and is not acceptable phraseology especially when it come to commenting on something as inconsequential as the existence of a mythical ape. I also believe that those people whom are so easily offended should take responsibility for their own pain, anger and resentment. That is their burden to bear not mine, and I will not give up my freedom of speech to placate you or them. As long as I am within this forums guidelines (which I am) I will say what is on my mind, just as you do.

I think that it is probably also to unwise to characterize all bigfoot believers as people whom the public school system has failed. Some of the most staunch supporters are educated, intelligent, and are able to problem-solve and articulate their positions. They just happen to hold different views.

Again show me where I made such an inclusive blanket statement.

If you stick around long enough you will notice that "MANY" (note I said "many", not all) believers outright reject, misrepresent, mistrust, or fear, science. If I'm not mistaken you yourself have had much to say on this subject, so why come after me when I mentioned it?

As a skeptic, it is frustrating to see what I think is the truth about this phenomenon and not be able to convince a believer to change their mind - but we must all agree in this debate that all of us have a right to our opinions on the topic, and to not be lumped into this group or that group simply because of our belief.

I am always astounded on this site to see someone who I tend to align with in this forum go into another forum on another topic and express opinions which might be completely and utterly opposed to mine in a different subject.

See? That is the fundamental difference between you and I. I am not here to change anyone's mind, nor am I here to push what I think is right on others. So please stop pushing your version of morality on me. I am simply here to discuss a topic that interests me, and without the believers there would not be anything to discuss.

When talking about groups of people in general it is always wise to avoid painting with a broad brush. Its our differences and diversity that make this interesting. :)

In your zealousness to demonstrate your highly evolved social enlightenment I think you overlooked the fact that the very nature of polls such as the one we are discussing is to separate people into groups and categories within groups...so is your problem with the poll or me discussing the poll for what it is?

Would you have us ban discussing such polls because they generalize and use "broad brush" strokes to separate and categorize people into groups based on what they believe in?

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I for one will not allow you or anyone to tell me what is and is not acceptable phraseology especially when it come to commenting on something as inconsequential as the existence of a mythical ape. I also believe that those people whom are so easily offended should take responsibility for their own pain, anger and resentment. That is their burden to bear not mine, and I will not give up my freedom of speech to placate you or them. As long as I am within this forums guidelines (which I am) I will say what is on my mind, just as you do.

No one should allow this, I say Amen !!!!!!!

Could not agree more.....

Evan, still not receiving my PM's?

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No one should allow this, I say Amen !!!!!!!

Could not agree more.....

Evan, still not receiving my PM's?

Thanks for your support. :tu::lol:

Not since I last time I mentioned it. Have you sent some since then?

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Thanks for your support. :tu::lol:

Not since I last time I mentioned it. Have you sent some since then?

I answered it, and gave you my email :blush:

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http://www.livescien...nfographic.html

Interesting that 30% of people (In the US?) belive BF is really out there. That is around 100 million people in the US. How can so many be wrong? Is it the bad education system? Are we (US citizens) just stupid? Or is there actually something going on here?

Hi DieChecker,

You know what I believe. But, I think the show "Finding Bigfoot" is actually one of the funniest shows on tv. Everything they hear HAS to be a "Squatch". Did you watch the latest "Aincient Astronaught" show about bigfoot? That got me to thinking about the "Bigfoot lady" in Astoria. She said that some Bigfoots come down in cylinders and have red eyes that can zap you. Maybe they should have interviewed her on the Aincient Astronaught show. LOL

Odie :alien:

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Since this thread started out with an infographic on bigfoot belief. I'd like to ask a non-threatening, non-loaded, and non-skeptical question of the believers. What is it about Bigfoot and all the surrounding lore that fundamentally drives your belief? I was a believer once and looking back I can chock my beliefs up to:

1) a personality that has a mild distrust of authority so cryptids and the manner in which believing in them sort of bucks the system appealed to me at that level.

2) crytpids are exciting, magical almost.

3) The information I had at the time was all I knew.

But seriously, what is it that makes you believe? Personal experiences? The whole "what if" mindset?

My own semi-belief is based on the experiences of others. People I have known and known well and what they experienced after having had an encounter. While I've never seen one myself or found any tracks, I did encounter a smell of what might have been one once, which while interesting doesn't mean anything really. Then too when you consider that Gigantopithecus has very few bones, only a single lower jaw bone and about a dozen teeth have ever been found, and most of those were found in a Chinese apothecary shop. Not exactly what you'd call a glowing mass of scientific hard evidence, but enough for the scientific community to endorse this was a real creature. No large bones in the fossil record, no DNA, none of the things we normally associate with what we see in dinosaurs.

I wouldn't say I'm a believer so much as I'm open to the possibility that there might be, but the vast majority of "so called evidence" is not so easy to swallow. Ok, there are some footprints that don't look like they're faked, but at the same time they could be. If you watch some of the shows on TV they tell you how to make a more convincing Bigfoot footprint appliance. One fellow even made a set he could put on his horse so he could get the ground penetration that a man couldn't. Ever notice that when they do a find of footprints no one bother to check the soil to see how firm or loose it is? A 200 lbs man or an 800 Lbs Bigfoot isn't going to look the same as far as the depth of the track goes, but no one ever has a soil tester with them. Now supposedly Bigfoots are soft footed creatures so they don't leave prints like deer and elk, they would leave them like humans would. My own personal belief is that unless you can come up with a body or skeleton, no one is going to believe your pictures, videos or footprint casts.

Now, I do admit I'm open to the possibility, but I'm not so open my brain has fallen out on the floor.

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Posted (edited)

I became a believer simply because I swallowed everything footers had to sell tell me. Even though it quickly made no sense, I honestly couldn't believe multiple forums and organizations could be so full of it. And try so hard to proselytise newbies through intimidation, and yes bullying, misinformation and disinformation, etc if there wasn't some truth to the beast. If they really didn't have "evidence". So I believed them, sort of, for a brief while.

--I also thought/think of Bigfoot as a real live monster. And how cool is that! Anything to creep me out while hiking or camping (or I guess even taking out the trash at night) is ok with me. It still does even though I give BF a very high probability it does not exist.

It is sometimes portrayed as some man-eating creature with a bad attitude and canines to match. That's the bf I like. Not the rubber ducky loving, whistling vegetarian with an affinity for painting.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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I am not going to get into the believer or non-believer debate right now. I will tack a stab at why I used to believe. I used to believe because I wanted to. I wanted there to be a bigfoot so I believed everything I saw, read, was told, whatever. I like/liked mysterious things, scary things, unknown things, and this was right up my alley. I wanted there to be a bigfoot so therefore I believed there was one. I think this is the same category that most believers fall into even if they won't admit it. They know that there is no evidence to support a creature such as this just like I knew there wasn't, but I wanted to believe bad enough so you overlook that little aspect. You turn things into evidence that aren't. This is just my opinion, so take it for what its worth.

Mike

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I am not going to get into the believer or non-believer debate right now. I will tack a stab at why I used to believe. I used to believe because I wanted to. I wanted there to be a bigfoot so I believed everything I saw, read, was told, whatever. I like/liked mysterious things, scary things, unknown things, and this was right up my alley. I wanted there to be a bigfoot so therefore I believed there was one. I think this is the same category that most believers fall into even if they won't admit it. They know that there is no evidence to support a creature such as this just like I knew there wasn't, but I wanted to believe bad enough so you overlook that little aspect. You turn things into evidence that aren't. This is just my opinion, so take it for what its worth.

Mike

It's not really a debate so much as a statement of what it is you believe. Personally, I'm not a believer or non-believer, but I'm open to the possibility based on what I've been told by friends. That's not proof of anything other than I believed that the two guys I know and they wouldn't have told me what they did just for giggles. Although, I have to say there is a lot crap that passes for proof that simply isn't and some things that scream hoax and fakery, but people won't say it's a fake.

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Posted (edited)

Since this thread started out with an infographic on bigfoot belief. I'd like to ask a non-threatening, non-loaded, and non-skeptical question of the believers. What is it about Bigfoot and all the surrounding lore that fundamentally drives your belief? I was a believer once and looking back I can chock my beliefs up to:

1) a personality that has a mild distrust of authority so cryptids and the manner in which believing in them sort of bucks the system appealed to me at that level.

2) crytpids are exciting, magical almost.

3) The information I had at the time was all I knew.

But seriously, what is it that makes you believe? Personal experiences? The whole "what if" mindset?

This is a fair, well posed question and one that deserves a response. I would say that, if I were to be honest, the first two reasons also apply to me to a degree, although I would question reason (3) because in my case I have consciously exposed myself to the opposing argument, and had done so, by the way, even before I had crossed swords with yourself and your comrades.

Interest in the unexplained runs very deep . It is a human instinct which is not to be denied in those who feel it. I presume there must be some evolutionary reason for why some of us have this need to tease out the unfamiliar.There is nothing wrong with it at all, it harms no-one and may sometimes expand human knowledge.

I take issue with the term `cryptozoology`because it implies that those such as myself are interested primarily in wildlife: I am not, I am interested in the mystery and the thrill of the chase that it generates.If a definitive man-like ape were ever captured and catalogued I would probably lose interest in the issue and move on to whatever the next mystery is.

However, this does not mean that I am a sucker for any old paranormal story doing the rounds: there are many paranormal claims-ones much more exotic than man-like apes- that I have looked into and found wanting. As a Brit, the logical thing for me to be concerned with would be ghosts, as Britain is very much the land of ghosts, with every other building having some ghost legend attached to it...but I have just not found the evidence all that compelling.

I also want to say that my `exposure` to the case for man-like apes came not from personal experience, and not from TV, or the internet, but from reading books: the works of Myra Shackley, John Napier and Reinhold Messner, for example.

I do object most strongly to any suggestion that I am ill-educated! I I have a higher degree in Humanities and work as a teacher. It is true that I am not a scientist, but then I never claim to be, and I do not feel this puts me at a disadvantage with the issue at hand. I also take issue with the term `believer`. I remember back in the early Eighties Arthur C. Clarke saying of the Loch Ness Monster: `On Tuesdays and Thursdays I believe in the Loch Ness Monster`. That sort of applies to me with man-like apes.

There is another factor which I need to mention: I am a man who comes from a very small hyper-urbanised island (Britain) but I am living in the biggest country in the world (Russia). It has been a real revelation to me to, for example, take a train trip which last for days and all you pass is endless forest and non-arable land. This makes me realise how big the world is! (Perhaps to an American that is less amazing than it is to me.)

Now I am interested in what motivates Career-Sceptics. You come from a nation which is in the grip of religious fundamentalism and reaction (look at all your Republican candidates!) and yet you choose to direct your scepticism to debunking people who have a harmless belief that there might be a man-like ape out there somewhere. WHY!?

Edited by U. N.Owen

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Almost a third of the 30% of the people who were involved in this had a probability of 30% of being misled 30% of the time while they were partaking in the survey.

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This is a fair, well posed question and one that deserves a response. I would say that, if I were to be honest, the first two reasons also apply to me to a degree, although I would question reason (3) because in my case I have consciously exposed myself to the opposing argument, and had done so, by the way, even before I had crossed swords with yourself and your comrades.

Interest in the unexplained runs very deep . It is a human instinct which is not to be denied in those who feel it. I presume there must be some evolutionary reason for why some of us have this need to tease out the unfamiliar.There is nothing wrong with it at all, it harms no-one and may sometimes expand human knowledge.

I take issue with the term `cryptozoology`because it implies that those such as myself are interested primarily in wildlife: I am not, I am interested in the mystery and the thrill of the chase that it generates.If a definitive man-like ape were ever captured and catalogued I would probably lose interest in the issue and move on to whatever the next mystery is.

However, this does not mean that I am a sucker for any old paranormal story doing the rounds: there are many paranormal claims-ones much more exotic than man-like apes- that I have looked into and found wanting. As a Brit, the logical thing for me to be concerned with would be ghosts, as Britain is very much the land of ghosts, with every other building having some ghost legend attached to it...but I have just not found the evidence all that compelling.

I also want to say that my `exposure` to the case for man-like apes came not from personal experience, and not from TV, or the internet, but from reading books: the works of Myra Shackley, John Napier and Reinhold Messner, for example.

I do object most strongly to any suggestion that I am ill-educated! I I have a higher degree in Humanities and work as a teacher. It is true that I am not a scientist, but then I never claim to be, and I do not feel this puts me at a disadvantage with the issue at hand. I also take issue with the term `believer`. I remember back in the early Eighties Arthur C. Clarke saying of the Loch Ness Monster: `On Tuesdays and Thursdays I believe in the Loch Ness Monster`. That sort of applies to me with man-like apes.

There is another factor which I need to mention: I am a man who comes from a very small hyper-urbanised island (Britain) but I am living in the biggest country in the world (Russia). It has been a real revelation to me to, for example, take a train trip which last for days and all you pass is endless forest and non-arable land. This makes me realise how big the world is! (Perhaps to an American that is less amazing than it is to me.)

Now I am interested in what motivates Career-Sceptics. You come from a nation which is in the grip of religious fundamentalism and reaction (look at all your Republican candidates!) and yet you choose to direct your scepticism to debunking people who have a harmless belief that there might be a man-like ape out there somewhere. WHY!?

I'm not sure how being skeptical of bigfoot interferes with being politically or socially active or anything else.

And I know some who would argue the major bigfoot pushers are not harmless intellectually or financially.

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I don't think I said anything even close to being controversial, but please do elaborate. I always enjoy being harassed for no particular reason by the political & social correctness Nazis.

Please show me where I said all religious people are as you described above. Could it be you are stereotyping me as a religious bigot merely because I asked the question?

A truly remarkable insight into our social structure, :blink: and one that I am aware of, believe it or not. Since you are aware that there are outliers in every group then you should also be aware that being politically and socially correct 100% of the time makes it impossible to say anything about anything with out offending someone.

I for one will not allow you or anyone to tell me what is and is not acceptable phraseology especially when it come to commenting on something as inconsequential as the existence of a mythical ape. I also believe that those people whom are so easily offended should take responsibility for their own pain, anger and resentment. That is their burden to bear not mine, and I will not give up my freedom of speech to placate you or them. As long as I am within this forums guidelines (which I am) I will say what is on my mind, just as you do.

Again show me where I made such an inclusive blanket statement.

If you stick around long enough you will notice that "MANY" (note I said "many", not all) believers outright reject, misrepresent, mistrust, or fear, science. If I'm not mistaken you yourself have had much to say on this subject, so why come after me when I mentioned it?

See? That is the fundamental difference between you and I. I am not here to change anyone's mind, nor am I here to push what I think is right on others. So please stop pushing your version of morality on me. I am simply here to discuss a topic that interests me, and without the believers there would not be anything to discuss.

In your zealousness to demonstrate your highly evolved social enlightenment I think you overlooked the fact that the very nature of polls such as the one we are discussing is to separate people into groups and categories within groups...so is your problem with the poll or me discussing the poll for what it is?

Would you have us ban discussing such polls because they generalize and use "broad brush" strokes to separate and categorize people into groups based on what they believe in?

I regret that the way I phrased my response to your initial posting made it seem as though I was trying to put the choke-hold of politically-correct speech on you. My intentions were actually very, very far from that.

I despise political correctness, quite honestly because what it amounts to is a language one can learn to speak, much like one would learn a foriegn language, in order to pretend that one is respectful when one is not. It renders discourse devoid of true meaning in the attempt to sway the most people possible. That is categorically NOT what I was trying to communicate. So Evanjc, Sakari - I apologize for not being clear.

Perhaps it would have been best that I left the post alone. I think perhaps I misunderstood Evanjc's intent, much the way mine didn't come across clearly either.

At this point in the discussion it matters little. Still though, it was not my intent to belittle anyone's viewpoint or muzzle their content.

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Now I am interested in what motivates Career-Sceptics. You come from a nation which is in the grip of religious fundamentalism and reaction (look at all your Republican candidates!) and yet you choose to direct your scepticism to debunking people who have a harmless belief that there might be a man-like ape out there somewhere. WHY!?

I'll reciprocate by answering your fairly posed question - even though I don't identify as a career-skeptic. Its a term I've only seen you use Owen, and I don't identify with it. If I were to be a career-anything, I suppose I'd be a career-evaluator. My beliefs on topics that are contained in this website are always subject to change, depending on the advent of new evidence for differing perspectives.

I've expressed this in a few other places, so I'll try to be succinct. My skepticism, particularly when it comes to claims of unproven species of megafauna living in our world, lies with one central principal. That principal is that everyone in the world should have the same facts with regard to the way the world works. This is to say that natural phenomenon should be studied, understood to the greatest degree possible, and categorized so that anybody can look at a thing (plant, animal, mineral, process) and see roughly the same information. Gold=gold, not gold=silver. Or that animal is a Rhinocerous, and that one there which is also big and grey, is an elephant.

I'm not a scientist either, though I do teach science to middle school students, so I think I have a basic grasp on how the process works. I think that science tries its best (its not perfect) to do this, make the facts the same for everyone.

Where I think that cryptozoology goes off the rails is that it attempts to do all the things that science does; study, categorize, understand and so forth, but without evidence. So I see the process - no matter how honest or earnest the intentions as flawed.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of the world whether Bigfoot, Nessie, Were-hyraxes, or any other cryptid actually exists? Not a bit when it comes to the practical side of things. Its pointless really. I recognize that. But I've had a lifelong interest in the subject, so I stay with it, even if my views are currently opposite of what I started with.

And yeah our political system is a mess. My personal viewpoint is that anyone, from any political affiliation, who has enough money/clout/power to get elected to the American presidency is probably too crooked to have any business being there. But those topics rob me of hope for the future. Cryptozoology is just plain fun. :)

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So Evanjc, Sakari - I apologize for not being clear.

You have no reason at all to apologize to me.......I liked Evans statement, and replied to it :)

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I wonder if humanity will ever figure this one out so it can be laid to rest?

Not if it is a hoax, as it will just go on and on. (Think Chupacabra here)

I live in a state with cougars, bears, bobcats, skunks, diamondback rattlesnakes, coral snakes and a few even rarer creatures like crocodiles and indigo snakes. I spend a fair amount of time out of doors and on the highway. These are all known animals, yet they are not necessarily common and most tend to avoid humans. I'm over 50 years old. To date I have seen one live bear and one live bobcat (and one dead one last week).

So is it possible a large primate exist in some of our more remote forests? It's possible, but is it realistic? First you need a breeding population not "a" bigfoot, and enough to maintain genetic diversity. You need a food supply. Of the great apes the chimpanzee kills and eats large game, bonobos take a few small animals. Gorillas and Orangs are primarily vegetarians. So is there enough plant and animal material to sustain a very large primate in the areas it is rumored to exist. The answer is yes, because we have another large omnivorous animal that inhabits the same habitat as an analog: the black bear. But what about winter protection? No known great ape is winter hardy. Man as a primate can compensate with clothing, but the known great ape species are tropical, (although mountain gorillas live in a year round cool environment at altitude; they don't deal with freezing weather). A black bear hibernates through cold periods, apes are not know to possess this survival mechanism. Then there is the lack of a body. Virtually every known animal has been either shot by hunters or hit by vehicles except this one. I have seen dead deer by the dozens, even a (large) dead alligator, bobcat, plus small animals of all kinds locally. You hear stories of bigfoot by the roadside or crossing the highway, so why are they so "lucky"?

Look, you may have a rather rare, or even very rare animal in a seldom visited woodland habitat. It might seek shelter in caves in freezing weather. As a primate it might be "smarter than the average bear" boo boo, so it knows enough to stay away from humans and tractor trailers. I would be very happy if one is found tomorrow. The films, photos and eyewitness sightings are interesting but could be the results of hoaxes and/or mistaken identity. But perhaps it never existed at all and that may be the sad reality of bigfoot.

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As for the OP, the ignorance of the general populace will never surprise me. What does surprise me? How I've never figured out how to make a quick buck out of it.

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As for the OP, the ignorance of the general populace will never surprise me. What does surprise me? How I've never figured out how to make a quick buck out of it.

"A quick buck" That is the ticket. No one other than Patterson and Gimlin have put any effort into this creature's "creation" so to speak, either. It requires no work at all to fake it or sell it to the public.

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As for the OP, the ignorance of the general populace will never surprise me. What does surprise me? How I've never figured out how to make a quick buck out of it.

Make a website and PayPal account.

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What is it about Bigfoot and all the surrounding lore that fundamentally drives your belief? I was a believer once and looking back I can chock my beliefs up to:

I don't know if I qualify as Beliver, as I'll freely admit that Bigfoot is statistically impossible. But I will defend many points that lead directly to support of bigfoot believers.

Personally, it is the large number of Belivers, and the large number of sightings/reports that intrest me so much. If the 30% statistic can be believed that would be around 100,000,000 people who for some reason think bigfoot is Probably real. That means it is a real phenomena. It is not just 10 people in one village in Oklahoma, it is a cultural phenomena.

There is something behind the phenomena, and I'm not dismissing it as ignorance or a desire to believe.

Hi DieChecker,

You know what I believe. But, I think the show "Finding Bigfoot" is actually one of the funniest shows on tv. Everything they hear HAS to be a "Squatch". Did you watch the latest "Aincient Astronaught" show about bigfoot? That got me to thinking about the "Bigfoot lady" in Astoria. She said that some Bigfoots come down in cylinders and have red eyes that can zap you. Maybe they should have interviewed her on the Aincient Astronaught show. LOL

Odie :alien:

I think Finding Bigfoot is crazy too. It is just entertainment. I think it could really promote a lot of mis-information and wrongful thinking.

As for the OP, the ignorance of the general populace will never surprise me. What does surprise me? How I've never figured out how to make a quick buck out of it.

What I did find interesting is that it cut generally equal across male/female and political republican/democrat lines. It would have been funny if there was a giant difference between sexes or political positions.

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Posted (edited)

What I did find interesting is that it cut generally equal across male/female and political republican/democrat lines. It would have been funny if there was a giant difference between sexes or political positions.

What about ethnicity? How many Bigfoot sightings come from African-Americans?

Edited by Night Walker

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http://www.livescience.com/19178-tracking-belief-bigfoot-infographic.html

go-figure-bigfoot-sightings-120319.jpg?1332267451

Interesting that 30% of people (In the US?) belive BF is really out there. That is around 100 million people in the US. How can so many be wrong? Is it the bad education system? Are we (US citizens) just stupid? Or is there actually something going on here?

Seriously, first post and you have to copy the entire original post? For the sake of the scroll wheel on my mouse...

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Seriously, first post and you have to copy the entire original post? For the sake of the scroll wheel on my mouse...

Sorry. It was a picture. I thought of cutting it up into smaller pics, but the effect would have been diminished.

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