Do muslims......

[spud the mackem]

These Muslim people believe they go to Paradise yeh !.Christians believe they go to Heaven yeh ! so is Paradise a different place than Heaven ? and if it is the Christian God must be different than the Muslim God,as they both cant rule the same place..I really can't imagine Christians blowing themselves up to get to Heaven,and I dont think that the Muslim mums and dads want their sons blowing themselves up,so whats the answer,are they brainwashed by some mad muller who is afraid to do his own dirty work,and blow himself up ?...Is it not time for the Muslims to wake up to the fact that once you are dead there is no coming back,and by blowing themselves and other people up,they are committing the Sin of Murder which is forbidden in the Quran,and therefore they aint going to Paradise but down to the Hot Place.If any Muslim guys read this ,come on guys wake up and tell the mad mullers to *******(second word is off) and then maybe we can all live together on this planet as its the only one we have...

[Lion6969]

Quotation of the Koran sura 56, verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."

Now, the word "houris" is thought to be "virgins", however, other translations of the Koran suggests, that "houris" are "white beads", "raisins" or even "grapes", yet, the word "hur" occurs in the Koran four times, and this can be translated, because of the whole sentences as "maiden with dark eyes".

Funny thing, no where in the Koran is there anything mentioned about a specific number of "houris", further more, all Muslims, not just martyrs, are rewarded with the "houris", then they enters the Islamic paradise.

In short, no one really knows, how to translate Koran as it was written so many years, mainly because of it's many translations throughout the years.

In short you're wrong! We do know how to translate the Quran, it's in Arabic not an ancient dead language, only time you get mistranslations is when you don't use contextual variables.

As for the above it's false, houri does not mean grapes, it does refer to the virgin maidens. There is this ridiculous notion that the Quran is a book of mixed languages, Syriac, Aramaic Arabic etc. This is said as though it is something new, early muslims scholars, linguists, academics etc already concluded that there are words in the Quran which are related to Aramaic, Syriac, Babylonian, Persian, etc. Syriac is a semetic root language for Aramaic and Arabic, so of course there will be words related, however this does not mean it's not Arabic anymore. It's like me saying Shakespeare writings have Latin, French, other European links in it's language, therefore shakespeare is not English but a mixed language, and it should be read with a Latin intepretation rather than English......precisely, it's ridiculous.

I bet you don't even know who proposed this Syriac reading of Quran?

As for the virgins, those who will enter janah (heaven) will have perfect partners, houri for the men, beautiful women unlike anything seen before, these are promised to all. The women who will enter paradise will have perfect partners as well and they will be even more beautiful than the houri. It's metaphysical reality told in the Quran, an enjoyment of paradise.

Martyrs who give their life and blood for the faith and protection of the society, the highest level of martydom for the sake of god have even more rewards for their deed. One of those is 72 houri as companions. This was related via Hadith not directly from the Quran! The companions quizzed muhammed about the houri, he describes them in Hadith and mentioned one of the many rewards for martyrs is the 72 houri, who attend to him along with angels before his blood even touches the ground whilst he or she is martyred.

The Quran mentions the huri in many places and their physical attributes......so how can heavenly White raisins which are dried grapes have full rounded breasts, big wife eyes, and the men will be wed to them! How do raisins have full rounded breasts, how do you wed a raisin? Its such a ridiculous notion the man who proposed it is not even an actual professional academic, his credentials suck just as much as his Syriac reading of the Quran!

[Lion6969]

These Muslim people believe they go to Paradise yeh !.Christians believe they go to Heaven yeh ! so is Paradise a different place than Heaven ? and if it is the Christian God must be different than the Muslim God,as they both cant rule the same place..I really can't imagine Christians blowing themselves up to get to Heaven,and I dont think that the Muslim mums and dads want their sons blowing themselves up,so whats the answer,are they brainwashed by some mad muller who is afraid to do his own dirty work,and blow himself up ?...Is it not time for the Muslims to wake up to the fact that once you are dead there is no coming back,and by blowing themselves and other people up,they are committing the Sin of Murder which is forbidden in the Quran,and therefore they aint going to Paradise but down to the Hot Place.If any Muslim guys read this ,come on guys wake up and tell the mad mullers to *******(second word is off) and then maybe we can all live together on this planet as its the only one we have...

And you tell the mad leaders you vote in to stop invading Muslim countries, killing millions, remove your military from their lands, stop raping their women, killing their children and raping their resources, then maybe the mullahs will have no effect!

[Beckys_Mom]

And you tell the mad leaders you vote in to stop invading Muslim countries, killing millions, remove your military from their lands, stop raping their women, killing their children and raping their resources, then maybe the mullahs will have no effect!

Really? So Lion where have you read all this then? Meaning what info tells you about other leaders who are non Muslim .. invading and raping, killing women and children? I would like to see the facts on this...can you .....present these facts? ..Seriously present them..for I have never heard of all this going on with the American and British troops...this is news to me...!!!

[Lion6969]

Lol it's empirically observably clear......name me 1 Muslim nation which has invaded a western nation, name me 1 Muslim country or army which has invaded a western country, name me 1 Muslim country which is militarily, economically, imperially ruling a western country, name me 1 prison setup specifically for non Muslims especially westerners?

Iraq, Afghanistan, are only two nations where most of Europe and USA occupy, there others too. It's well documented that USA soldiers have abused innocent prisoners, women, children, raped, gang raped, humiliated, urinated on, tortured, all to implement what? Peace? You call this ****** peace, or peace keeping, it's ruling with an iron fist!

You worry about islamification of Europe, at which Muslim armies hands? Yet the ones you voted have taken your sons and girls to abuse Muslim lands and people lime as though their sat at an eat all you can frigging buffet, next on the list Syria and Iran.

You want see facts, go and ****ing travel becky see for yourself, don't just sit in Ireland on your couch or seat at your PC get out and see for yourself. All the things I mentioned are not conspiracies their in the frigging open and public information, it's observable fact, while the bigots here scare monger about Muslims this Muslims that, they actually become blind to reality, which I ask again who is forcing Islam in the west? Who is forcing secularism in Muslim lands?

[White Crane Feather]

Really? Contemporary Hindu terrorist groups, BJP, the indian army in occupied kashmir, the Tamil tigers in Sri lanka, need more?

Don't forget white Supremesists in tge us.

[Lion6969]

Don't forget white Supremesists in tge us.

True!

[Knight Of Shadows]

what ? usa troops .. they're angels aren't they .. abu graib prison .. oh that's just single accident ? afganstan .. well that too gee the list goes long and you never heard of it beckys ? you know it's surprise people don't know about those .. but so happy to hear about the terrorists muslims

but when an american does it .. it's a fashion ! or individual mistake no offense there but you really don't know what those american troops does

after they leave america don't you ? you don't know about the recent solider that was killing childrens and families in afganstan ?

like i said ... collect the numbers of muslims killed by the west leaded by usa

and collect the numbers of westerns killed by " muslim terrorists " and do simple math and you'd have the Real terrorists as an answer

rejoice

[Timothy]

72 virgins would be so annoying.

Edit: And of course they don't all believe that...

Edited April 1, 2012 by Timonthy

[Lion6969]

72 virgins would be so annoying.

Edit: And of course they don't all believe that...

Dunno it depends, if you have been given the strength to handle a 100, 72 ain't that bad.

[Knight Of Shadows]

You worry about islamification of Europe, at which Muslim armies hands? Yet the ones you voted have taken your sons and girls to abuse Muslim lands and people lime as though their sat at an eat all you can frigging buffet, next on the list Syria and Iran.

i'll disagree this is rubbish

[Lion6969]

i'll disagree this is rubbish

That's fine if you disagree mate, but what do you disagree about?

[Knight Of Shadows]

describing what's going on here as an outside plot against muslims .. that's one

and i can't talk about it more .. for obvious reasons

and two .. iran is not an islamic country ! now i don't care about what shegh says or islamic experts says

i follow my reason .. and my reason tells me who ever believe that " murderering sunni muslims will fasten the coming of the muhdi "

i don't believe who think so is muslim .. and iran " shittes " does

to hell the shitte path is the must corrupted path i've ever seen in a religion it's just unbelieveable

so calling iran as islamic country .. is an insult to islam .. my opinion but hey am no religious pesron what do i know ?

but i know common reason and sense

am no fan of usa bargin into countries and the very nerve they kill people in their own houses even children and yeah rape cases

and at the end they whin and play the victim .. but i don't think the public is really aware of that

and i doubt any one of them sent their son to become a murderer

but as far as am concerned .. suicidal bombers are a reaction .. if you want to know reaciton for what

just go back to the history of usa war on muslim you'd find out the reason it's simple really

no offense intended i just said rubbish out of my personal view you could think the same of my post

[Timothy]

Dunno it depends, if you have been given the strength to handle a 100, 72 ain't that bad.

Lol

More talking in a sense that I would want at least a few of them them to be 'experienced' (they can pass on their wisdom to the others).

[RavenHawk]

Lol it's empirically observably clear......name me 1 Muslim nation which has invaded a western nation, name me 1 Muslim country or army which has invaded a western country, name me 1 Muslim country which is militarily, economically, imperially ruling a western country, name me 1 prison setup specifically for non Muslims especially westerners?

It's getting late now, but I'll list a few. The Almoravids, The Seljuks The Ottomans, The Algerians, The Tunisians, And the stateless Bin Laden.

[spud the mackem]

And you tell the mad leaders you vote in to stop invading Muslim countries, killing millions, remove your military from their lands, stop raping their women, killing their children and raping their resources, then maybe the mullahs will have no effect!

If they became democratic and civilised like most of the world,and stopped KILLING EACH OTHER especially the innocents ,as they have been doing for a few thousand years long before we got there,then no one would have any reason to go and help them.

[Beckys_Mom]

Lol it's empirically observably clear....(snipped out irrelevance questions that do not in any way answer my question nor give sources of Lions made up statement )

Why didn't you say you have no solid proof for your statement? I asked you for proof and I got waffle..and you seem to think answering a straight forward question with more questions will fly? You cannot provide anything to back up the outrageous statement you made....I didn't ask you to fire questions as a way to provide proof ...I asked for a source Lion to back up your statement...and you failed to do that I had a feeling you could never back that up .....

I mean saying that all of the US and UK military all just rape and murder children and women is made up by you...More so as you cannot back it up..I wanted to see sources so I too can read about this...I had never heard such a thing before.. Especially speaking about the entire US and UK military .... it seems a bit far fetched

.When I see you start a sentence with -LOL when asked for proof of any one of your statements that look serious .. I cannot take anything you say seriously.. LOL is not meant to be placed on top of serious issues ....

I am better off asking a real Muslim.. one that can take these things seriously and talk rationally about them...

Edited April 1, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Knight Of Shadows]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

http://islamonline.com/news/articles/2/US-army-abusing-dead-bodies-in-Afghanistan.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/11/us-soldier-killing-afghanistan-children

i could do this all day

and the angelic image of theirs shattars doesn't it ? i maybe disagree with lion methods and even alot of points

but i share his feelings against what the usa and other western armies did in muslims countries

i just hope you comment on those especially put your self in place of women who were raped in abu graid prison

then tell me what would you think of those murderers afterward

[spud the mackem]

describing what's going on here as an outside plot against muslims .. that's one

and i can't talk about it more .. for obvious reasons

and two .. iran is not an islamic country ! now i don't care about what shegh says or islamic experts says

i follow my reason .. and my reason tells me who ever believe that " murderering sunni muslims will fasten the coming of the muhdi "

i don't believe who think so is muslim .. and iran " shittes " does

to hell the shitte path is the must corrupted path i've ever seen in a religion it's just unbelieveable

so calling iran as islamic country .. is an insult to islam .. my opinion but hey am no religious pesron what do i know ?

but i know common reason and sense

am no fan of usa bargin into countries and the very nerve they kill people in their own houses even children and yeah rape cases

and at the end they whin and play the victim .. but i don't think the public is really aware of that

and i doubt any one of them sent their son to become a murderer

but as far as am concerned .. suicidal bombers are a reaction .. if you want to know reaciton for what

just go back to the history of usa war on muslim you'd find out the reason it's simple really

no offense intended i just said rubbish out of my personal view you could think the same of my post

Hi,Just aquestion or 2,if you are living in Syria,who is giving you all this crap,about Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan,dont believe all you read friend the newspapers exagerate lots of news in order to sell papers...Personally I would like the Brits and Americans out of those cesspits,and let them murder each other as they have been doing long before we got there.Your place isnt doing so well under a dictator either,but if thats what you want you are welcome.

[Beckys_Mom]

http://en.wikipedia...._prisoner_abuse

http://islamonline.c...fghanistan.html

http://www.guardian....nistan-children

Thanks for the links.. and going to the trouble to look things up for me... Even if they do not back up the statements I was speaking about.. the main thing is you still went all out to help me..and I seriously thank you...

. Your first link does not back up his outrageous statement to say that all of the US and UK military rape and murder Islamic children .. and women...It speaks of prison torture and so on ..... It leans on a selected few members of the military who abused their prisoners, and where later punished by their own government for doing so...

Your second link does not back up the outrageous claim either.. It only mentions the vile acts done by a few soldiers.. urinating on a few dead bodies... Disgusting and vile of them yes.... But it does not back up his rape on children and woman claim by the millions .... It just shows what some of the sick in the head soldiers have done and no doubt got into a lot of hot water over... heard about this on the News over here too.The UK government were not happy.......It does not in any way speak for the entire military from both countries... .But this is not really what I was asking for

Your 3rd link speaks of the ONE mad solider that went on a killing spree...We already know about this one guy that went mad ..Killing a total of 17 people... NOT millions.. and no mention of rape either !!

So far nothing has been backed up about UK and US military soldiers to stop killing their children and raping their women. in the high numbers as it is put forward - Millions...!! ..Thats a lot of children and women don't you think? I bit over the top...I doubt millions of these children and women were raped and killed by US and UK people...not in the way Lion states it

When in reality it could have been so many here and there and not as much as the statement is making out .I had this picture in my head from his statement that millions have built up and all done by random soldiers from the UK and US al the time..

And people tend to forget that in a war, there ill be innocents killed ...it happens ...Not saying it is right.. but any one that knows anything about war, will understand that innocents will suffer...It is not fair nor is it right.. but it happens in every war that ever goes on ...

But Muslim terrorists have done killed more of their own people... I have seen News reports on so many Muslims fear the US and UK leaving, they say that the sec the US and UK troops pull out..This all came from the Afghan people,, this was their main fears...They claim that the Taliban will in fact murder every last one of them... Sad but the Afghans believe this ...You can see this report for yourself If you look up the Documentary by Ross Kemp...

Now before you go to try and say anything.......I am not saying all UK and US soldiers are all saints... No..I know that during wars.. people can be cruel........But his claim made it sound as if millions of children and women were killed and raped al the time by US and UK military... I think this was greatly exaggerated .... this is why I asked for sources to show that the military on countries US and UK were doing this all the time...and it is done by the millions that Lion claims... .....I have yet to get this..

One only spoke of ONE mad soilder killing some children and others... but I already saw this on Sky News... In fact most people know about that story We all know he killed 17 people...he lost it..and it was sad..No one with morals likes to hear about innocents getting killed ..

Now if you want to really talk about real punishment and horrors? Try looking at what some of the Muslim dictators and terrorists have done to their OWN people....Now you can find dozens of those horror stories too... No doubt.. But something tells me you wont want to !!

Edited April 1, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Knight Of Shadows]

i posted the pics of the rape once here .. americans didn't like it of course it was cencored but the truth hurt

and i believe in the first link in abu graib prison there was numberous cases of rape you should find it it's hard to miss

for the first link .. it does say about abuse .. let me give you the exact words before you dismiss it so easily

because that was the greatest if not the biggest example of the role models soliders that usa send to islamic countries it says " Beginning in 2004, human rights violations in the form of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse, including torture,[1][2][3] reports of rape,[1][2] sodomy,[3] and homicide[4] of prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq "

it's eiather my english sucks or they it says sexual abuse .. torture .. homicide .. reports of rape .. sodomy is this liberty for iraq ? i doubt

now to quickly dismiss it in light word as " abuse " is not reasonable or logical those are crimes

and look at the ridiclus sentences they got .. instead of death pentality that kind of shows you how usa think that muslims lives are " less valuable " than other people .. so point one i disagree i think you overlooked and described things lightly people lives were lost there

just for what it's worth i don't think it can be described as " abuse "

however that kinda of takes the rape didn't happen out of your list

on second link .. and how on earth a familiy member is suppose to take it when he see an invader unrinate on his dead father ?

he won't thank them hell if it happened to me i'd become suicidal bomber too wouldn't you ?

see i think the main issue is selfishness here .. westerns tend to think of excuses or makes matter simple or dismiss it by small words

as you did but no it's not small or simple and there was reaction to that which caused suicidal bombers

now we agree those soliders did something wrong .. and therefore a suicidal bomber bombed him self is also wrong

what makes one act is more logical or light than other ? i doubt you got an answer for that

and the something you were looking after for it was provided already in the first link .. read again i suggest regarding the rape

i could sent you pics if you stomach looking at those animals in uniform raping a woman ?

for the third link see it simply dismissed .. simple accident here simple accident there few accident in that prison

few in that ? and what muslims should take all that and say thank you ? no not really would you ?

the main issue is i think you should before making any decision you should compare what happened to those vicitms to your self

and then decide weather it would look to you as simple one accident or a patern

if you'd have any sanity left that is i know i wouldn't if that happens to me

you know i once saw a number compare how much muslim died by usa and how many americans killed in suicide bombers attack

i could look for it but you gonna have to read the first link more accuratly before i hate to be shooting blanks

coz you kept saying no rape and it was wrote like many many times in first link eiather you didn't read

or you overlooked it

and at the end i agree not all soliders are sent here are like those murderers who commit rape homicide and other means on muslims

but hey .. that doesn't really mean it's ok to have such soliders

to help you get this right imagin your self .. in your country irland that is . here comes invading army from syria claim to librate you

" don't ask what we never had the chance to ask to " however there happens to be some rapes here and there some torture and some of those other disgusting stuff .. how would your people would react ? i doubt they'd be sending us flowers right ?

come on it's common sense it's nothing complex but in order to get it you gonna have to lose the idea some selfishness should be pushed aside

and a compare and relize that those muslims are people too family like yours sons daughter and father etc etc etc

we don't get raised to suicide with bomb belt .. but heaven knows if i did lost some one from my family in such disgusting way as in abu graid prison i think i'd do even worse than suicide bombing .. my question is what would U do in case that happens ?

[Knight Of Shadows]

Hi,Just aquestion or 2,if you are living in Syria,who is giving you all this crap,about Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan,dont believe all you read friend the newspapers exagerate lots of news in order to sell papers...Personally I would like the Brits and Americans out of those cesspits,and let them murder each other as they have been doing long before we got there.Your place isnt doing so well under a dictator either,but if thats what you want you are welcome.

right .. don't believe the news ... a common and foolish excuse

what am talking about is well documented read the links am not making this up it may comes as shock to you but hey admiting wrong

is better than being in denial

however flaunting the my country card in my face is cheap move but hey .. guess what ? no one asked for your help

we can take our rights by our own hands

and i won't comment on any more hints on the matter

you got the links you got the discussion address them you're welcome

but what you want to talk about i cant say too much about for " personal safty "

so eiather the topic .. or no discussion

[Knight Of Shadows]

by the way beckys for the last part of your post .. read what i said to spud

trying to switch the topic to something else makes me doubt your desire to know the truth

and doubt more you're only the " make it look good " person well it will never look good or less cruel

no matter how many arabs kills each other that doesn't mean usa can or it doesn't make usa soliders actions look less ugly

it's as ugly as it can get

so again focus on what we're talking about changing topic will only get you confused and i can clearly see you and spud intentions

to refer to bad things done by arab to kinda of excuse what usa army did right ? focus plz i don't like to talk alot

[Shadowman972]

I think the question (despite possibly attemting to be inflamitory) is valid. I believe that there is a God in some form. However I am not religious. I strongly feel that religion was created by man in an attempt to explain things that he could not understand. This does not mean there is no God, just that we can't possibly understand what that might be. I'm pretty sure the dude with the white beard is not it.

I am also pretty sure that God is not a pimp either (to come back to the topic at hand)

[spud the mackem]

right .. don't believe the news ... a common and foolish excuse

what am talking about is well documented read the links am not making this up it may comes as shock to you but hey admiting wrong

is better than being in denial

however flaunting the my country card in my face is cheap move but hey .. guess what ? no one asked for your help

we can take our rights by our own hands

and i won't comment on any more hints on the matter

you got the links you got the discussion address them you're welcome

but what you want to talk about i cant say too much about for " personal safty "

so eiather the topic .. or no discussion

Hey Man,I feel sorry for you living in a country where you have to look over your shoulder and cannot speak freely for your own "personal safety" as you put it...thats why the U.S.A,Britain France and other European Countries went to Iraq and Afghanistan,to help the people to find the means of free speech and dispose of Dictators..My friends and I can say what we like and even argue against our Governments without fear of reprisal,thats Democracy old son,and the sooner you have it the safer you will be..