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danbell06

Do muslims......

132 posts in this topic

The US and UK are to blame for the terrorism.

The Jews should have been given unoccupied lands to build a nation on not other peoples homes.

As it is the only way it will work is if war happens and one side is ejected from their lands or both unite together into one country. I cant see either happening anytime soon so the terrorism will continue.

I think this is the ONLY solution and it will happen at some point, I believe. God made an eternal contract with Abraham and even listed the boundaries of the land that would be his in perpetuity. Call it myth if you like but if you live long enough you will see it happen. It's all beginning to rapidly come together and no matter how unfair anyone thinks it is, it will come to pass as predicted in scripture.

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psyche101 we can finish this in the right forum for it if you're that curious

for the virgins last i heared there was 99

so i think they got reduced due to the world financial problems probably

Thanks KOS< do you know if there is an active thread that would be appropriate?

@ Lilly, sorry, just trying to understand what the depth of the conviction is and why so many continue to believe in it. i.e. is it religion, or is religion a guise to make one believe that things like 72 virgins are a reward for murdering innocent people in the name of revenge? I'll continue elsewhere. Some surely believe it, but can all believe this?

I think one of the best points I have seen in this thread was when the question was asked by fullwired:

What do the virgins think of all this?

They have to share one lousy bloke with 71 other women for eternity? They do not seem to be getting the best deal here. Surely these are muslim women as we infidels are too filthy to touch aren't we? Seems a lousy reward that. Surely that alone is a question that has been asked before, I wonder if an answer has ever been provided?

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What do the virgins think of all this?

They have to share one lousy bloke with 71 other women for eternity? They do not seem to be getting the best deal here. Surely these are muslim women as we infidels are too filthy to touch aren't we? Seems a lousy reward that. Surely that alone is a question that has been asked before, I wonder if an answer has ever been provided?

I rather suspect that how the women feel about it is of little/no consequence. I find that when people believe things based on faith alone it frequently has little to do with rational thinking.

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well am moderate you asked me what i can do i said as simple person nothing .. you didn't say IF i had the power

Well, on a forum like this, it is assumed that one has no power. But this is to discuss the “what ifs”. And before change can take place, it has to be talked about in the open.

and if i did i'd serperate religion from politics the two don't mix well together

This is real interesting. I thought that Islam was built on the two being one-in-the-same? More tightly bound than in any other religion. That is one of the main reasons that Sharia law and the Constitution are incompatible. So the question I would have for you is, can the politics be pulled from Islam and it still remain Islam? The real fragmentation in the Muslim world is not between Shiite and Sunni but orthodox and unorthodox or heretic. To separate the politics would be to invite other authority (beside Allah) into a Muslim’s life. Is that not a major sin?

but too many if won't make a change really i can go on about if i was i would do and if and if but hey that lose the point

But you could use the power you do have to discuss change among your fellow Muslims in a non threatening way. Show how it could be done. Get people to talk about it openly.

reality is Am NOT in power .. so there's no need for if i was what would i do

And it is that attitude that allows the radicals to drive the bus.

actually asymmetric warfare got many countries freed ..

Well, that’s a matter of opinion. Many times freedom fighters just pave the way for a dictator to take over. Those countries got *freed* alright, right back into bondage. The new dictator is as corrupt as the old leadership was.

the secret lies by causing the enemy as many losses that it would make it's stays more expensive than leaveing worked always coz we fight for our country .. they fight for greed .. piece of cake

That’s the main strategy for unconventional warfare. Draw it out until the invader’s will is broken. That is true for those that fight for greed. But when fighting for your country, it’s better to take the fight to them in the conventional sense, in their own backyard. Seize the initiative (make them react to you rather than the other way around). Unfortunately, Americans haven’t learned that you don’t stop fighting until the fighting is done. Most Americans don’t understand the threat that Islam is to their way of life. Hell, they don’t understand how the current President threatens their way of life. The curse of a free society is Ignorance and Apathy. It’s usually not until the last moment they realize the danger. They give up too easily. Even in WWII, Americans were very close to giving up. I think that if the invasion of Japan took place, the American will would have wavered.

and it's not matter of opinion it's matter of right and wrong and which side you take

i doubt having one opinion could change the reality that 1+1=2 .. even if i think it's 11 it doesn't change the answer

It’s more complex than that. An invader bent on conquest is not always in the wrong. This is what the history books say. That is the history of Islam. This is the history of just about every nation in the world of the past and present. It’s a matter of will. The two systems are incompatible and this planet is getting too small for both. Only one can win out. The problem is that Islam is unorganized and the West can’t find the will. In my eyes this is the recipe for greater death and destruction.

I would think that if the US took Bin Laden’s advice and converted to Islam, that still wouldn’t change anything. Because the US would follow its own path and make Islam its own leaving all the other Muslim nations in the dust. This wouldn’t solve anything as the reasons for terrorism would still exist. Unemployment, disenfranchisement, no upward mobility, and jealousy of the wealth of America.

however am not assyrian am proud to be arab and never forget my kurdish roots eaither so thank you i'll pass being assyrian

i actually i don't i'll enjoy being one

and syria is not the hertiage of assyrians .. cannaites were here thousands of years B.C

while assyrians arrived in times of christ .. you get the idea ?

that makes them the newbies in syria ..

Uhmmm, I don’t think so. The Assyrians date back to the late 25th Century bce. I know about the Kurdistan dream and I wish you well in that endeavor. But being Kurd means that your ancestry is Persian that mixed (via invasion) with the Assyrian peoples. And the Kurds have never been too kind toward the Armenians. I’ve always considered that the Palestinians never had a legitimate claim but are used to distract from the Kurds that do. Primarily because a Kurdistan would carve portions from Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. But we are getting away from religious aspects. Don’t want to get Lilly mad at me :)

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It's getting late now, but I'll list a few. The Almoravids, The Seljuks The Ottomans, The Algerians, The Tunisians, And the stateless Bin Laden.

Lmao!!! Are we going back in history or are we talking contemporary times? Historically my friend Europe under the guise of secularism in their forms of fascism, communism and imperialism have caused more human misery death and carnage than the history of religions put together not just Islam! You still out did them!

When I said name me one muslim soldier or army which has invaded a western country and imposed Islam, I can list you 40 or more European and other non Muslim nations who have their military occupying muslim lands imposing secularism. So wake up to reality!

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If they became democratic and civilised like most of the world,and stopped KILLING EACH OTHER especially the innocents ,as they have been doing for a few thousand years long before we got there,then no one would have any reason to go and help them.

I think the reply above cover your BS too! Who are you helping? Who asked you for help? Who feels helped? Interesting what gave your nations this authority or the moral authority for anything? These nations you refer to we colonised chopped up and when you raped and pillaged their resources (ie India for example on who's wealth the Brits fashioned a nation and a wealthy empire hence the crown in the jewel, obviously india was a rich flourishing tolerant mixed nation of many faiths ruled by islam), it's you fellas that left these places in the sht, left your puppets to rule as dictators etc. Why do you think USA & UK claimed sassan had weapons because you held the receipts ;)

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Why didn't you say you have no solid proof for your statement? I asked you for proof and I got waffle..and you seem to think answering a straight forward question with more questions will fly? You cannot provide anything to back up the outrageous statement you made....I didn't ask you to fire questions as a way to provide proof ...I asked for a source Lion to back up your statement...and you failed to do that I had a feeling you could never back that up .....

No becky I ain't doing your work for you, especially when it's common knowledge, go source it! Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, chechnya, palestine, Kashmir, Pakistan, etc etc all occupied all have records of mass killings at the hands of their occupiers, go to human rights and check and similar organisations, check how India the worlds largest democracy does not allow independent observers into Kashmir, in case their soldiers are seen killing raping and massacring whole villages towns and families. Go check on these sites and organisations how many accurate laser guided missiles always miss their targets and wipeout whole families, check how even before invading Afghanistan it was the poorest most war torn nation on the planet, to catch one man the world super power brought the world to tear it up even more, not only that they put the northern alliance effectively in power after ousting the Taliban. A group of people who used to mutilate women in public for fun and causing fear, their chums in power there now, obviously your friends are similar because they have things in common. Check how the Russians massacred chechnyans, go and check how our troops (who are probably the best about), treat innocent prisoners, women men children alike. Tally up the dead and compare them with how many have died in the west as result of some rag head nutcase! You guys kill each other more in number over drug, alchohol and petty theft related incidents than some rag head blowing you up!

I mean saying that all of the US and UK military all just rape and murder children and women is made up by you...More so as you cannot back it up..I wanted to see sources so I too can read about this...I had never heard such a thing before.. Especially speaking about the entire US and UK military .... it seems a bit far fetched

Far fetched if your heads in the clouds and totally devoid of reality! USA and the UK are the two leading war mongers currently on the planet, it's a money making land raping, and massacring game play that they love so much. Who else is still occupying places globally either by force or in some cases still by colonial means!

.When I see you start a sentence with -LOL when asked for proof of any one of your statements that look serious .. I cannot take anything you say seriously.. LOL is not meant to be placed on top of serious issues ....

You don't have to....it does not bother me. Even this reply I know goes over your head, like most things do. Its irrelevant I dont expect to change a mind like yours it's very ingrained with certain views and perceptions. You can't teach an old dog new tricks!

I am better off asking a real Muslim.. one that can take these things seriously and talk rationally about them...

Lmao!!! A real Muslim? You won't even know one if he or she was in your face, why? Cause your oblivious like most about Islam, it's only natural to fear what you don't understand. Most UM members are ignorant about Islam, yet they lecture alsorts on here and fear what they don't know anything about, besides the constant drip feed of BS in the media and the net. Hell I used to one of you feeding off that drip too! ;)

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Hey Man,I feel sorry for you living in a country where you have to look over your shoulder and cannot speak freely for your own "personal safety" as you put it...thats why the U.S.A,Britain France and other European Countries went to Iraq and Afghanistan,to help the people to find the means of free speech and dispose of Dictators..My friends and I can say what we like and even argue against our Governments without fear of reprisal,thats Democracy old son,and the sooner you have it the safer you will be..

Really? You have free speech where you live? I bet you don't I bet it's selective speech!

As for ME it's ruled by autocracies and dictators who have been propped up by western nations and funded. You're leaders hold the receipts for their loans and the arms they bought!

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Lmao!!! Are we going back in history or are we talking contemporary times? Historically my friend Europe under the guise of secularism in their forms of fascism, communism and imperialism have caused more human misery death and carnage than the history of religions put together not just Islam! You still out did them!

When I said name me one muslim soldier or army which has invaded a western country and imposed Islam, I can list you 40 or more European and other non Muslim nations who have their military occupying muslim lands imposing secularism. So wake up to reality!

Islam invaded and subjugated a large swath of the earth at one time. Just because it's descendants have been too ignorant and weak willed (compared to the bloody past) to remain in control does not mean they are not capable under the right circumstances to reclaim their "glory". Eventually Islam will be utterly destroyed because it's adherents cannot accept coexistence in the world. They have a false dream of controlling the world and it will not happen.

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describing what's going on here as an outside plot against muslims .. that's one

I dint say this, I believe Muslims currently are the scum of the earth, as the prophet prophecised and our lands will be occupied by western non Muslim nations like as though their eating at a buffet, why? Because Muslims have gone away from the core that made them successful and enlightened the world and brought the backward Europeans back then in to the future and caused the revolutions etc. So I dont just blame the west I blame Muslims themselves more, all I am doing is trying to wake up those deluded by media and net to the actual reality on the ground!

and i can't talk about it more .. for obvious reasons

and two .. iran is not an islamic country ! now i don't care about what shegh says or islamic experts says

i follow my reason .. and my reason tells me who ever believe that " murderering sunni muslims will fasten the coming of the muhdi "

i don't believe who think so is muslim .. and iran " shittes " does

to hell the shitte path is the must corrupted path i've ever seen in a religion it's just unbelieveable

That's irrelevant brother my point was Iran has not bombed nor sent it's army to the UK nor USA, nor have they a record of using a WMDS only one nation has, yet these two war mongers have your nation and Iran next on the hit list, they will tell their people to vote them sell them

BS policies which never bare fruit, then send an army to Syria made up of about 40 nations, whilst they kill you your family and destroy the place they will tell you and their own people, we are bringing you freedom and peace! Tell me how you get on then.

so calling iran as islamic country .. is an insult to islam .. my opinion but hey am no religious pesron what do i know ?

I did not, but they don't differentiate do they? I bet if punjab was given to the Sikhs these morons would bomb them, mistakinging them for muslims because of their turbans

am no fan of usa bargin into countries and the very nerve they kill people in their own houses even children and yeah rape cases

and at the end they whin and play the victim .. but i don't think the public is really aware of that

and i doubt any one of them sent their son to become a murderer

I agree, but for parents who sent their sons to war are not to blame it's the leaders the generals the politicians etc, but why do they keep voting them in if they don't want wars?

but as far as am concerned .. suicidal bombers are a reaction .. if you want to know reaciton for what

just go back to the history of usa war on muslim you'd find out the reason it's simple really

I know my history don't worry about it! However most here will be clueless to the historic fact that isreal was created by a campaign of terrorist bombings and yes suicide bombing was first done by Jews to create fear and carnage in order to create their state, now those who were initially victims of their terrorism fight back as the Jews did when creating their state, but now they don't like suicide bombing, even term was coined by them because it's actual term by Jews who invented it and Muslims today call it martyrdom operations.

no offense intended i just said rubbish out of my personal view you could think the same of my post :D

non taken :)

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Islam invaded and subjugated a large swath of the earth at one time. Just because it's descendants have been too ignorant and weak willed (compared to the bloody past) to remain in control does not mean they are not capable under the right circumstances to reclaim their "glory".

Lmao!!! Really invaded and subjugated? I bet your source is the net for your version of history I stick to reliable academic sources. When I asked my question it was within modern context ie today's times, because historically more damage and carnage has been done in secularisms name

Eventually Islam will be utterly destroyed because it's adherents cannot accept coexistence in the world. They have a false dream of controlling the world and it will not happen.

Lmao!!! You are precisely the type of people I refer to, chatting to you is actually wasting my precious life, breath and time, let me know when the above happens!!! Lol

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By the way back to the OP!

In heaven men and women will be given spouses perfect in form and nature. They sole purpose and creation was for our benefit and pleasure. No numbers have been specified but the huri are for all, the number was mentioned in Hadith as 72 for those martyred in the cause of Allah! This is not the motivation for them and those who insinuate this are simply naive and don't understand why some of these people are driven to such actions, it's not condoning it at all, but ignoring the cause behind it is foolish!

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Islam invaded and subjugated a large swath of the earth at one time. Just because it's descendants have been too ignorant and weak willed (compared to the bloody past) to remain in control does not mean they are not capable under the right circumstances to reclaim their "glory". Eventually Islam will be utterly destroyed because it's adherents cannot accept coexistence in the world. They have a false dream of controlling the world and it will not happen.

Who controlls the world? Surely not muslims.

In what way you think Islam will be destroyed? By whom? Yes, Islam will end one day when the last star and the moon parish together with the universe. However, according to Nikola Tesla this will not happen. He also said that ignorance, stupidity and religious fanatism by any religion is the biggest enemy of humanity. I agree because most religious fanatics are ignorant to its own state of fanatism and to stupid to understand its own thoughts.

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Posted (edited)

No becky I ain't doing your work for you, (SNIP out unread post )

Mods request ....see below

The subject of rape and torture of the innocent is indeed terrible. However, the actual subject of this thread is supposed to be if most Muslims believe in the idea of receiving 72 virgins as a reward in the afterlife. Let's try and get back on topic please.

Now you can either respect what she says .. or act like you cant understand it.. choice is yours... The topic is about 72 virgins.. I hold no more interest in your posts about war....and what you think about people....

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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the ONLY religion,that ,as far as I am aware,that hasn't killed for their beliefs,are Hindus.

I am unaware of any killings of members of other faiths, by any Hindu.

If I am wrong about this,someone enlighten me please.

However,the only ones that strap 20 lbs of C4 to themselves,and take as many innocents as possible,any faith color or creed,are radical Muslims and Arabs.

Plenty of bombings here and there,but suicide bombers,per se,tend to be only a few certain groups.

Finally, someone who recognizes the non-violence of the Hindus. I am a Hindu myself. I, and every other Hindu I am aware of, practices ahimsa: or non-violence.

There are no records of any large-scale religious violence committed by Hindus (there are of course always those few lunatics who enacted their own small-scale violence), in ours, or any other time.

There have of course been many attacks on Hindus and our temples--largely by Muslims and Christians.

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Hindu terrorists groups = Indian army in occupied Kashmir

Tamil tigers, the BJP a Hindu fundamentalist political organisation who's goal it is to re conquer the lands that were once under the Hindu Rama empire, Persia ME, parts of far east and china and into the northern regions beyond Afghanistan. Oh wait were they elected not so long ago ;)

Tamil tigers have been terrorising innocent Sri lankans for a very long time.

I could go on and even quote the Vedas and the Puranas but that's not my style. Hinduism as pacifist religion.....please. Ayodyha, etc warrior kings, warrior ways in the scriptures, warriors glorified and deified. Please come on let's not play silly bigoted games!

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Hindu terrorists groups = Indian army in occupied Kashmir

Tamil tigers, the BJP a Hindu fundamentalist political organisation who's goal it is to re conquer the lands that were once under the Hindu Rama empire, Persia ME, parts of far east and china and into the northern regions beyond Afghanistan. Oh wait were they elected not so long ago ;)

Tamil tigers have been terrorising innocent Sri lankans for a very long time.

I could go on and even quote the Vedas and the Puranas but that's not my style. Hinduism as pacifist religion.....please. Ayodyha, etc warrior kings, warrior ways in the scriptures, warriors glorified and deified. Please come on let's not play silly bigoted games!

I said ahimsa was the highest virtue (at least I hope I mentioned that... I'm rather forgetful). It is not always observed, of course. The Tamil Tigers are abusers and misinterpreters of the ancient writings.

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Everybody, please read > the OP.

If any more off-topic posts are made, this thread will be closed.

Karlis -- mod team member

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Everybody, please read > the OP.

If any more off-topic posts are made, this thread will be closed.

Karlis -- mod team member

Point taken.

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Does it say young virgin women? They may have fat nerds waiting for them on the other side..

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Genuinely believe that there are 72 virgins waiting for them in the next life? :blink:

In reality it doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of young men and women who commit these acts are doing it for one of two solid reasons. One is that if they don't die this way they will be accused and die another way, usually stoning or similar. Second, they see the hopelessness of life under the regimes that sponsor such atrocities and see the hope of a better life for those they leave behind. Sums like $25,000 US equivalent may sound small to us as a death benefit for our families, but in many nations this is a huge amount of cash. What I am saying is that those of us in the West, regardless of our faith or lack of, should pay much more attention to the money involved or the consequences if the homicidal task is not completed. Their powers that be are ruthless beyond what we can imagine, they have been this way for centuries, and will continue to be this way until we eradicate them and end all traces and remnants of that evil facet of their faith.

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Finally, someone who recognizes the non-violence of the Hindus. I am a Hindu myself. I, and every other Hindu I am aware of, practices ahimsa: or non-violence.

There are no records of any large-scale religious violence committed by Hindus (there are of course always those few lunatics who enacted their own small-scale violence), in ours, or any other time.

There have of course been many attacks on Hindus and our temples--largely by Muslims and Christians.

I think if western and islamic religions had much less influence on the world and if eastern religions like hinduism, jainism, buddhism and daoism had influence, the world would be a much peaceful place.
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In reality it doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of young men and women who commit these acts are doing it for one of two solid reasons. One is that if they don't die this way they will be accused and die another way, usually stoning or similar. Second, they see the hopelessness of life under the regimes that sponsor such atrocities and see the hope of a better life for those they leave behind. Sums like $25,000 US equivalent may sound small to us as a death benefit for our families, but in many nations this is a huge amount of cash. What I am saying is that those of us in the West, regardless of our faith or lack of, should pay much more attention to the money involved or the consequences if the homicidal task is not completed. Their powers that be are ruthless beyond what we can imagine, they have been this way for centuries, and will continue to be this way until we eradicate them and end all traces and remnants of that evil facet of their faith.

If Islamism is to be abolished and extremism of this faith to be gone it has to be done by moderate muslims themselves, a religion can never reform unless it is the followers that reform it. The scary part is a lot of muslims rationalize with the extremist and secretly hate non-muslims. You ask a lot of muslims who call themselves moderate and they will tell you it is the americans that are evil and the terrorists are fighting for good. They are clearly delusioned.

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What is so hard to believe about that statement? You do not indulge in sexual intercourse with a female outside of marriage here so you will be rewarded for your deeds there.

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