[Merged] The Kariong Glyphs

[The Puzzler]

I never really thought it IMpossible - just not really overly possible - but to me, the idea is not all that far-fetched really.

[Leonardo]

I never really thought it IMpossible - just not really overly possible - but to me, the idea is not all that far-fetched really.

Well, considering neither the Ancient Egyptians nor the Ancient Sumerians were reknowned as explorers and/or were not considered particularly expansionist and that they didn't, actually, discover Australia, I'd say it's reasonable to state the likelihood of Ancient Egyptian (or proto-AE) or Ancient Sumerian (or proto-AS) glyphs being found in Australia as 'impossible'.

Unless they are of modern origin.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Leonardo

[The_Spartan]

Night Walker, if the Ray Johnson that Mr. Senff is referring to is W. Raymond Johnson, then he is very well qualified as an Egyptologist.

It is mentioned that W. Raymond Johnson has been with the Oriental Institute of University of Chicago, at the Epigraphical Survey at Luxor Temple, in Egypt.

Whether he did actually translate the text can be ascertained by asking kmt sesh, who is from Chicago and who is a docent at the Field Museum of Natural History and the Oriental Institute. He would be knowing this ray Johnson and could confirm whether the text was indeed translated by him, by correspondence.

edit to add :

Sorry. This Ray Johnson is not the Ray Johnson i wrote about. The W. Raymond Johnson i was speaking about.

From Mr. Sneff's own words

The linguist Hans-Dieter von Senff recognised the importance of the translation by Johnson, who died in 2004. He continued and improved his work, as shown by his pu-blications in 2004 and 2011. In the last year Dan Collins of Queensland discovered two small, new panels near the main site, which were translated by von Senff as well. – Pre-viously, two other panels with a total of eight glyphs were found c.30 meters north of the main site. These are not translated, yet. A new set of panels was discovered by Jake Cassar in february 2012 (Refs.38,39).

Source

I have searched the web for the book "Basic Hieroglyphia" , but couldn't get any reference to it. could anyone help?

Edited April 3, 2012 by The_Spartan

[The Truth hurts]

When your friend Dan Collins aka Feraldan was discussing his finds on the Pyramid Mountain, he wrote that

in essence, he climbed down from the mountain, went home and in a short time, he managed to decipher the engravings into ancient Sumerian.

Cormac mac airt asked him a question

to which Dan replied

and

in a later post he wrote that the cuneiform which he found on the pyramid mountain could be 7000-7500 years old

to which cormac and many others pointed out that sumerian cuneiform didn't exist that long ago

and in the end, after many request for his qualifications to decipher proto sumerian, he posts his Masters certificate, which was not in ancient languages or archaeology or whatever, but in conservation Biology.

Then, why did Dan claim to be

Period.

and the same to you - would you claim yourself to be an expert in deciphering the Pyramid Mountain Engravings?

in your pdf you state that you are

A doctorate in modern languages and the ability to decipher Sumerian Cuneiform or Egyptian Hieroglyphs has vast difference.

From your own translation of the Kariong Glyphs

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in wiki, though not authorative, but with good references, the sons of Khufu are listed as below

So, where did Nefer-Djeseb and his brother Nefer-Ti-Ru come from???

Have you submitted your translations etc for peer review?

Spartan. When an Editor of a Archaeological Journal repeat, what he has been told by the Dept. National Parks and Wildlife, that the undergroud section was not there at Kariong in 1980, or when the resident Rock art Expert states, that the glyphs are only a year old, then, forgive my cynicism, you forget about peer review, because if it is a new discovery, then they know even less than you. This perverts the socalled Peer review because how can anyone comment on something, they have no knowledge about. A Peer review in such case, where the unknown give judgement about something, they never ever been told about, is utter futility.

In Theory I agree with you totally, however in practice it is a dangerous subject, because, it is the peers in their Ivory tower who cling (desperately to the fiction, that no nation came before Captn Cook to Australia.) It's like asking your Parish Priest to make a judgement about pre-marital sex.

The fact is, too many reputations are at stake, because once someone manages to push the gatepost of history in Australia backward, all history books have to be re-written and historians have to answer, why they have ignored the factual, actual past. Hence the historic fictions are bulwarked and fortified to insure that this must not happen.

Hans-Dieter von Senff, Ph.D.

[Leonardo]

Spartan. When an Editor of a Archaeological Journal repeat, what he has been told by the Dept. National Parks and Wildlife, that the undergroud section was not there at Kariong in 1980, or when the resident Rock art Expert states, that the glyphs are only a year old, then, forgive my cynicism, you forget about peer review, because if it is a new discovery, then they know even less than you. This perverts the socalled Peer review because how can anyone comment on something, they have no knowledge about. A Peer review in such case, where the unknown give judgement about something, they never ever been told about, is utter futility.

First, if various scholars and authorities make a claim, then one can choose to accept, deny, or explore that claim. You appear to have taken the 'deny' option automatically. Why?

Second, the 'peer-review process' as described by you is a travesty of the process that actually takes place. 'Peer-review' does not necessarily mean 'compare to like' with regards the claim being made, but evaluate the methodology used in making the claim.

Science (through peer-review) does not refuse unique discoveries simply because they are unique - if it did, there would be no new discoveries. Science (through peer-review) refuses to accept claims that are backed up with poor science. If your claim has not passed peer-review, don't blame the peer-review process, blame your poor adherence to scientific methodology.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Leonardo

[Peter Cox]

In Answer to Peter Cox. Re: Kariong Glyphs.

In answer to Peter Cox, the so-called Research posted on the Internet is based on sloppy research. When I first heard about Kariong, I was dubious,just like every body else. However, once I found the entrance to the Walled Entry, exactly as described by Nefer-Djeseb, and managed to get my son in law, Michael, down the two meter shaft. Michael(with his Back to the Eastwall) pointed out to me that a perfectly formed tunnel was on his left side, so the camera went down and the first picture of the Airshaft was taken and then measured. For me, it was enough, but Michael O'Brien insisted, to go to the bottom of the shaft, where the entrance to the "Ges" (meaning half or side)chamber was found, it was some three meters long, seventy centimeters high and had at the northern end a square drive going about a meter down.. When tested later by Wayne Shipton with an heavy iron bar,the sound was heard on the surface,(Two meters under the Sandstone wall, proving the site was hollow, hence build in a card house fashion out of heavy sand stone plates.

The Pictures, some 90 or hundred, when developed were given to the then Assisting Minister, Carmel Tebutt in 2001, in order to protect the site.

From 2001 til 2006 I worked on my dissertation titled " The Problematic of the German Unity, a linguistic and historical view."

It was read at two Queensland Universities and the Sorbonne, and allowed me to graduate to the Degree of Ph.D..

Having finished that, I began to resurrect my old Hobby Archaeology and in this case it meant: Kariong..., because I came to the conclusion, that the research available, just did not fit.

Let me try to explain what I mean. You do not find archaeological artefacts, without them coming from somewhere. Rex Gilroy wrote about the Phonecians, but they only existed some 1500 years B.C. However, the Egyptians build temples in some cities, like Byblos or Amrit and Tyros about 3100 to 2900 years before Christ; hence these cities where Egyptian Colonies (In order to secure a permanent timber supply) which some thousand years later became Phonecian cities.

About the Glyphs. Ray Johnson, whose Basic Hieroglypia I use by permission of the copyright holder, contains altogether 2.877 Glyphs,which is nearly 4 times the amount that Gardiner, Witthuhn, Budge or Betro uses in their various encyclopeadias, hence I

(being a linguist) have no problem to use them, by a constant cross reference among all Grammars in order to arrive at the correct transliteration.

The Fact, that so far an Air shaft, first discovered by Paul White, the Walled Entry as well as the underground chamber ("Ges")have been photographed and measured proves, why I am sure, that I am on the right track. If you add to this the inscription found by Dan Collins in September last year and add to this another inscription discovered by Jake Cassar, it proves that the so-called previous research does not make sense.

The fact, that the site was first seen by a Journalist as far back as 1955, as well that the glyphs were recarved by Sydney University Archaeology Students in 1964, makes a mockery of Allan Dash's claim, that he seen them in the seventies and he saw them added to. Nonsense.

About the discovery of the rather large above Ground Chamber inside the Eastwall, discovered by Steven Strong. This discovery happened like this: I, facing southwards, Steven stands at the southern End of the Glyphs. The Filmcrew, even lower down, near the southern Enntry to the Site. The conversation went something like this:

Steven: "Hans, and where do you think, they buried Nefer-Ti-Ru (The Priest)?"

Hans: "Let me have a look at the Glyphs. 30 Seconds silence, Then: About one meter behind you, but don't ask me how deep down.!"

Steven: Loking inside the East Wall, "I try to get in there." Finds an entry and disappears. Closely followed by the Camera man, followed by the Director, who wanted, nay needed her Indiana Jones Segment for the film.

And me? Because of my crook leg I had to wait outside, listening to the conversation going on between Steve Strong, the camera man, sound engineer and Director. " About ten meters long, five meters high etc."

After this Nina Angelo and Steve departed for an ABC Radio Interview, and me not wiser, but thinking...

Late in the evening I caught up with Steve and ask him two pertinent questions. No.1. "Where there any Hiroglyphs in the Chamber ?"

Steve: "None whatsoever !!!"

Hans: "Änd what do you think, was the use of this Chamber?"

Steve: Shrugging his shoulder: "Search me, no Idea !!!"

Upon this Answer I reminded Steve of the empty chambers above the Grave Chamber in the Cheops Pyramid build by Khufu (Cheops), to prevent the weight of the Stone Mass above, collapsing the Grave Chamber below.

Steves answer to this guided question was: "Off course, it could not be any other reason'."

All this was communicated to the Minister of the Enviroment, Robyn Parker, the next day, and Peter, believe me, once I rediscover the two large panels in orthodox Hieroglyphs, one in relief, the other engraved, the Minister will be informed forthwith of this discovery,as this is the final proof, that Ancient Egyptians were in fact in Australia, because the orthodox script at Kariong will confound all Egyptologist, who in the past ha hawed the Kariong glyphs as a hoax. Believe me, they are not.

Peter, these are a number of answers to the questions you wanted to know. If you have any more, let me know.

Hans-Dieter von Senff Ph.D.

Bonjour my friend,

That is very clever what you just did there. see its easy for me to SAY i heard this or did that and I was there when and this is what happened and then this is what he said and she did this and I couldn't cause I was hurt but together they agreed that........ oh and none of us took any evidence from it.....

And its all good and well, but the difference is I dint even research it, I googled a different theory to yours posted the link and the just of the theory, the reason this is more credible than yours is that I POSTED A LINK of some one else's opinion with facts and pictures, it doesn't matter if it said BIG FOOT DID IT, as long as there was a record and photo on the link you would need to PROVE it wrong.

Right now all you have done is provide tall tales of what has not once not twice but been shown as a HOAX many times.

What would you do if i said in fact on those days you claim you were there, that me and 2 friends were there too and none of us saw you? Can you PROVE without doubt you were in fact there and that you can show REAL proof of what you say and can you post the research?

Would it be asking to much to show us what it is we want to see? as for now you telling us and we must just believe? If you said you could walk on water I would want to see you do it before i believe it, then I would want to test the site where you did it to ensure its not a trick, then I would want a friend to see it and test the site too just to ensure we both agree you can in fact walk on water.

Do you see where im going with this? You cant just expect us to believe you need to prove you need to show and you need (and this is the kicker) have your peers agree with you, if they dont then you need to defend and change their minds with PROOF.

All we want is you to change our minds much in the same way you would if your peers challenged you, i read in a post that you dont do a peer review on a new discovery? what kind of rubbish mental state of mind is that? (im not swaying it is yours) but what better time for your peers to review the information corroborate your findings/claims and story and make you famous?

Now please unlike the Dan Collis (if you are not him) please supply what you would need to make us believers...... and no more of this rubbish i was there, I saw and I heard I want pictures, facts, research, peer reviews, second opinions with backed up documentation and links to support your claims, than and only then will i call your research good, cause right now its nothing more than your opinion and a story to make a child sleep better at night.

Im pretty sure this is the point of view of not only me but MOST of the people on UM even the ones that may be your peers here.

Thanks

Peter

[Peter Cox]

So basically, because you say so. That's not exactly proper scientific methodology.

Considering Homo sapiens have only been around for about 200,000 years, whatever lived 700,000 years wasn't us. So it's rather irrelevant.

cormac

WELL PUT CORMAC, bravo........

You see without proof its tall stories and with every story there is a problem this 700 000 year old people in Egypt is just one of 100's of issues with what you are claiming, and there is SO much evidence to support the 200 000years ago we developed into what we are today.

So good luck with proving us wrong and winning us over with this one....

Peter

[cormac mac airt]

Night Walker, if the Ray Johnson that Mr. Senff is referring to is W. Raymond Johnson, then he is very well qualified as an Egyptologist.

It is mentioned that W. Raymond Johnson has been with the Oriental Institute of University of Chicago, at the Epigraphical Survey at Luxor Temple, in Egypt.

Whether he did actually translate the text can be ascertained by asking kmt sesh, who is from Chicago and who is a docent at the Field Museum of Natural History and the Oriental Institute. He would be knowing this ray Johnson and could confirm whether the text was indeed translated by him, by correspondence.

edit to add :

Sorry. This Ray Johnson is not the Ray Johnson i wrote about. The W. Raymond Johnson i was speaking about.

From Mr. Sneff's own words

Source

I have searched the web for the book "Basic Hieroglyphia" , but couldn't get any reference to it. could anyone help?

Look at it a little closer Spartan. The alleged Ray Johnson who "died in 2004" per your linked article by Dr. R. M. de Jonge and W. R. Johnson of the Oriental institute are apparently one and the same. Interesting how a dead man (since 2004) is apparently alive and well per the following:

The Epigraphic Survey based at Chicago House in Luxor, Egypt, is directed by W. Raymond Johnson, PhD, Research Associate (Associate Professor) NELC and Oriental Institute.

The mission of the Survey since its founding in 1924 has been to produce photographs and precise line drawings of the inscriptions and relief scenes on major temples and tombs at Luxor for publication. More recently the Survey has expanded its program to include conservation, restoration, and site management. In addition to the field director, the professional staff of the Survey normally includes three to four epigraphers, four to five artists, two photographers, an architect, a librarian, several conservators, and IT consultants. The epigraphers and artists include both graduate students and post-doctoral scholars who have received training in all aspects of Egyptology. The Epigraphic Survey completed its 87th archaeological field season at the end of April, 2011.

The Epigraphic Survey

I guess someone forgot to tell Dr. Johnson that he was deceased.

cormac

[Peter Cox]

Look at it a little closer Spartan. The alleged Ray Johnson who "died in 2004" per your linked article by Dr. R. M. de Jonge and W. R. Johnson of the Oriental institute are apparently one and the same. Interesting how a dead man (since 2004) is apparently alive and well per the following:

The Epigraphic Survey

I guess someone forgot to tell Dr. Johnson that he was deceased.

cormac

Again well spotted.

There was a post in the other topic by the truth hurts that said something like Dan Collins found and translated the stuff in September last year, however according to Dan the man Collins on his topics here he only found the text a few weeks ago and could not go back to get pics due to the rain however he translated them in a day or 2 and that was a few weeks back not September last year. I suppose its juts another mistake made that fits into the bigger picture of mistakes.

Just mu 2c again

Peter

[cormac mac airt]

Again well spotted.

There was a post in the other topic by the truth hurts that said something like Dan Collins found and translated the stuff in September last year, however according to Dan the man Collins on his topics here he only found the text a few weeks ago and could not go back to get pics due to the rain however he translated them in a day or 2 and that was a few weeks back not September last year. I suppose its juts another mistake made that fits into the bigger picture of mistakes.

Just mu 2c again

Peter

Kind of makes one wonder about the Oriental Institute. Apparently not only do they work a person to death, they work them afterwards as well.

cormac

[The_Spartan]

Look at it a little closer Spartan. The alleged Ray Johnson who "died in 2004" per your linked article by Dr. R. M. de Jonge and W. R. Johnson of the Oriental institute are apparently one and the same. Interesting how a dead man (since 2004) is apparently alive and well per the following:

The Epigraphic Survey

I guess someone forgot to tell Dr. Johnson that he was deceased.

cormac

yeah i noticed it.

That's why i added the edit. Mr. Sneff writes in his article the noted Egyptologist Mr. Ray Johnson was from Queensland. W. Raymond Johnson of Oirental Institute is not from Queensland, Australia. Mr. Sneff writes that this particular Mr. Johnson is an autodictat.

This is therefore also an introduction into the Work of Ray Johnson, Australia’s autodictat Egyptologist, who confounded the Australian experts, by giving the only proto-Egyptian translation of the Kariong Glyph, while the experts, and there are many of them, threw any attempt to transliterate these proto-Egyptian glyphs in the too hard basket.

Johnson himself knew that he was an autodictat, hence self taught, something unacceptable to Australian Academe. But surprisingly, by international standard, autodictats are not only acceptable, but considered an asset.

section 30/page 31 of Mr. Sneff's article.

So, these two Johnsons cant be the same since Mr. W.Raymond Johnson who has proper training in Egyptology and this autodictat Mr. Ray Johnson cant be the same.

[Peter Cox]

Kind of makes one wonder about the Oriental Institute. Apparently not only do they work a person to death, they work them afterwards as well.

cormac

LOL - i will not be sending them my C.V any time soon lol

[The_Spartan]

LOL - i will not be sending them my C.V any time soon lol

I don't know whether i did bad or not - i actually e-mailed Mr. W. Raymond Johnson about the reference of his name and the wrong linking of his name to the issue. maybe he will respond, maybe not..he is a quite a busy person.

[Peter Cox]

I don't know whether i did bad or not - i actually e-mailed Mr. W. Raymond Johnson about the reference of his name and the wrong linking of his name to the issue. maybe he will respond, maybe not..he is a quite a busy person.

Good man Spartan, hope he does respond. but im pretty convinced this is our friend Dan Collis trying to get some points back from the last time he posted and lost all his credibility and respect here, but who knows it might not be too.... only time can tell

But all will tell in good time..

Peter

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Do we know what these "heiroglyphs" looked like before they were improved/clarified/manipulated in 1964?

What does Rex Gilroy have to say about all this? Where can I go to see this evidence "in the flesh"? And, most importantly, what evidence do we have in Egypt for any possible lost voyagers ending up here? How well documented is the era we're talking about?

[The_Spartan]

Do we know what these "heiroglyphs" looked like before they were improved/clarified/manipulated in 1964?

What does Rex Gilroy have to say about all this? Where can I go to see this evidence "in the flesh"? And, most importantly, what evidence do we have in Egypt for any possible lost voyagers ending up here? How well documented is the era we're talking about?

Rex Gilroy would be grumbling in jealousy. Somebody else is at his game...right?

[Leonardo]

yeah i noticed it.

That's why i added the edit. Mr. Sneff writes in his article the noted Egyptologist Mr. Ray Johnson was from Queensland. W. Raymond Johnson of Oirental Institute is not from Queensland, Australia. Mr. Sneff writes that this particular Mr. Johnson is an autodictat.

section 30/page 31 of Mr. Sneff's article.

So, these two Johnsons cant be the same since Mr. W.Raymond Johnson who has proper training in Egyptology and this autodictat Mr. Ray Johnson cant be the same.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that "autodictat" is a high-falutin' term for "self-taught" - i.e. amateur or hobbyist?

Wearer of Hats,

Do we know what these "heiroglyphs" looked like before they were improved/clarified/manipulated in 1964?

The first record of these glyphs is from the 1970's, so there is no evidence they existed in 1964*, let alone were 'improved' in that year.

*According to "Woy Woy Net", there was a rumour - allegedly 'confirmed' - that students carved some of the glyphs during the 1960's (this rumour was doing the rounds after the 1975 discovery of the glyphs). However, the first instance that someone noted these glyphs existed was in 1975 - so the claim of carving in the 1960's is entirely unsubstantiated by fact.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Leonardo

[The_Spartan]

I just got this e-mail from Mr. W. Raymond Johnson in regards to my query whether he is the Ray Johnson referred in the Article by Mr. Sneff

Dear Roshan,That Ray Johnson is not me. I have never translated any faux Egyptianhieroglyphic inscriptions in Australia (those rock inscriptions were clearly notdone by any ancient Egyptians). That Ray Johnson, whoever he is/was, has/hadno association with the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, and Isuspect is not an Egyptologist.If you would care to see the work I actually do, please check out our web page:http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/projects/epi/Check under "Recent News" for current updates. I have just posted one for April2.Thanks for writing and for allowing me to clarify things. Please spread the word!Best wishes from Egypt,RayW. Raymond Johnson, PhDDirector, Epigraphic SurveyOriental Institute, University of ChicagoChicago House, Luxor, Egypt

Edited April 3, 2012 by The_Spartan

[Peter Cox]

I just got this e-mail from Mr. W. Raymond Johnson in regards to my query whether he is the Ray Johnson referred in the Article by Mr. Sneff

hahahahahaha - thanks Spartan, that is awesome.. well done. so as they would say in myth busters..... BUSTED....

Thanks Spartan. What does the truth hurt have to say now?

[Abramelin]

Heh, this one went down the drain rather quickly.

Good work The_Spartan !

[cormac mac airt]

I just got this e-mail from Mr. W. Raymond Johnson in regards to my query whether he is the Ray Johnson referred in the Article by Mr. Sneff

Good work Spartan. I'm thinking someone was trying to use an actual experts name and qualifications to bolster their claim, without said persons knowledge. Appears to have back-fired drastically. This battleship is sunk.

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

yeah i noticed it.

That's why i added the edit. Mr. Sneff writes in his article the noted Egyptologist Mr. Ray Johnson was from Queensland. W. Raymond Johnson of Oirental Institute is not from Queensland, Australia. Mr. Sneff writes that this particular Mr. Johnson is an autodictat.

section 30/page 31 of Mr. Sneff's article.

So, these two Johnsons cant be the same since Mr. W.Raymond Johnson who has proper training in Egyptology and this autodictat Mr. Ray Johnson cant be the same.

Yeah, but the part you didn't notice from the last page:

35. Johnson, W. R., Basic Hieroglyphia, Copyright Mrs. E. M. Rumble

36. Johnson, W. R., "Letter to Dia Abu-Ghazi", May 1994

37. Johnson, W. R., Oriental Institute of Chicago, USA

This links W.R. Johnson with both the text and the Institute and makes W. R. Johnson and Ray Johnson out to be one and the same person IMO. At least Dr. de Jonge appears to claim as much. That's intellectually dishonest and irresponsible on so many levels.

cormac

[The_Spartan]

Yeah, but the part you didn't notice from the last page:

This links W.R. Johnson with both the text and the Institute and makes W. R. Johnson and Ray Johnson out to be one and the same person IMO. At least Dr. de Jonge appears to claim as much. That's intellectually dishonest and irresponsible on so many levels.

cormac

Seriously. i didnt see that.

my bad.

[Peter Cox]

According to the Dutch Archaeologist, Dr. Reinoud de Jonge, Australia was discovered about 4.600 years ago by the 2nd. King Djoser of the 3rd Dynasty.

Feral Dan claimed, that he found Sumerian or Egyptian Pictographs, the precursor of the Keilschrift at Pyramid Mountain, in North Queensland, which makes perfect sense, because that was the Area, that Dr. de Jonge was refering to.

So, you Mocking Birds, Bleat loudly, because the Kariong Glyphs will spoil yor appetite at mocking any scientist,ever.

I was there when Feral Dan found a hitherto unknown set of Proto-Egyptian glyphs at Kariong, I was there when Jake Cassar found another set at a higher level, and the beauty was, it was in front of a Filmcrew, who recorded it all, but best of all was the discovery by the Author Steve Strong of a hitherto unsuspected above ground chamber, hidden

in the Eastwall of the Kariong Glyph Site.

However, as I translated these Proto Egyptian glyphs discovered by Feral Dan, I know that he is very serious about this matter, and I am proud, that he singlehanded, and despite all the un-scientific mockers around still proceeded.

I have re-translated the glyph by glyp translation of the Proto-Egyptian script at Kariong which is available as a free download of 147 pages of reserarch. To download, go to Google and enter "Ancient Egyptians in Australia, Senff". The second entry will get you the book, including the underground pictures, never seen before.

If you are indeed intested in the truth, and how the so-called scientific academe, perverted the research, whether ascribing it to U.F.O sightings as claimed by the Editor (an Egyptologist)of an Archaeological Journal, or the claims of the Author Steven Spillard (another Egyptologis), that a certain glyph was a dog-bone. However, the glyph he was refering to, is the glypht for Inheritance, (Gardiner) while another one, which he called a Bell is in fact the Symbol for a woodcarving chisel.

While a certain Professor,(again an Egyptologist) states that the glyphs are just modern grafiti, when it is in fact, Australia's oldest known Text, unless Feral Dan's Text from Pyramid Mountain Nth. Queensland proves to be older still, but I cannot be sure, untill I get the pictures from him.

If you want to know more about the Kariong glyphs, download the above Book, it is all research and translate the glyphs yourself, it is not that hard, because the transliteration is given; and then marvel, why Australian Egyptologist failed to translate the text.

Was it because the climb from their Ivory tower was too long and too hard, or was it because the truth hurts? You be the Judge.

Hans-Dieter von Senff, Ph.D.

So to end this quickly - no it was not...

[The Truth hurts]

Bonjour my friend,

That is very clever what you just did there. see its easy for me to SAY i heard this or did that and I was there when and this is what happened and then this is what he said and she did this and I couldn't cause I was hurt but together they agreed that........ oh and none of us took any evidence from it.....

And its all good and well, but the difference is I dint even research it, I googled a different theory to yours posted the link and the just of the theory, the reason this is more credible than yours is that I POSTED A LINK of some one else's opinion with facts and pictures, it doesn't matter if it said BIG FOOT DID IT, as long as there was a record and photo on the link you would need to PROVE it wrong.

Right now all you have done is provide tall tales of what has not once not twice but been shown as a HOAX many times.

What would you do if i said in fact on those days you claim you were there, that me and 2 friends were there too and none of us saw you? Can you PROVE without doubt you were in fact there and that you can show REAL proof of what you say and can you post the research?

Would it be asking to much to show us what it is we want to see? as for now you telling us and we must just believe? If you said you could walk on water I would want to see you do it before i believe it, then I would want to test the site where you did it to ensure its not a trick, then I would want a friend to see it and test the site too just to ensure we both agree you can in fact walk on water.

Do you see where im going with this? You cant just expect us to believe you need to prove you need to show and you need (and this is the kicker) have your peers agree with you, if they dont then you need to defend and change their minds with PROOF.

All we want is you to change our minds much in the same way you would if your peers challenged you, i read in a post that you dont do a peer review on a new discovery? what kind of rubbish mental state of mind is that? (im not swaying it is yours) but what better time for your peers to review the information corroborate your findings/claims and story and make you famous?

Now please unlike the Dan Collis (if you are not him) please supply what you would need to make us believers...... and no more of this rubbish i was there, I saw and I heard I want pictures, facts, research, peer reviews, second opinions with backed up documentation and links to support your claims, than and only then will i call your research good, cause right now its nothing more than your opinion and a story to make a child sleep better at night.

Im pretty sure this is the point of view of not only me but MOST of the people on UM even the ones that may be your peers here.

Thanks

Peter

Peter. I agree fully with your reasoning, if you want to download the pictures, research and glyphs go to Google. It has been on the Public Record since 2001. Insert "Ancient Egyptians in Australia, Senff". The second entry should get you the download to the book. I know perfectly well, that I have an added advantage (and that is not boasting, but a fact.) I use the Johnson "Basic Hieroglyphia" by permission of the copyright holder. Believe me, it is much easier to use, because it's 2.788 glyphs makes the transliteration a breeze, compared to those who use Budge or Gardiner, or those who have to rely on 750 glyphs to transliterate a text.

This pertinent fact should make it obvious that I have tried to protect the site since then, when I had the matter brought up to State Cabinet level, in order to protect the site. A long reply was received from the then Assistant Minister, Carmel Tebutt, however it was never acted upon, because the Minister is bound by the advice of her Department, who claimed that the site was build in 1980. and claimed to be a Hoax. Maybe you can understand now, why I am so hostile to so-called peer review. It was the Hoax claim by Steve Spillard, that permeated every bit of discussion. "But it is a Hoax" and every amateur and professional repeated it, instead of doing some research themselves. Sure there were some exceptions. The Egyptologist Edward Melzer from the States for example. Paul White was the one who found the site, but his problem was, he wanted U.F.O's. Because most of the pictures, measurements et al have been in the Public Domain, it should not really me, to produce them (Mind you, I will, one I understand how the uploading process works).

I do not care, if people think that I am grandstanding. The site is real, build like a cardhouse out of sandstone plates, that cannot be brought in from the outside, hence someone had to do the job on site. And it were not Students, because the roof of the Grave site consist of sandstone plates some 50 to70 centimeters thick, on which the public walks and under which Paul White searched for the Mummy. As stated, the pictures have been in the Public Domain. It is not my fault, if researchers failed to see them, and draw a logical conclusion. The Material is there.

Budge is o.k. but the Gardiner script is too miniscule, very hard on the eyes. As I stated, it is important for me to find the two formal panels, the south wall one, if my memory serves me right, is completely different (in relief) to that on the west wall, which is deeply engraved. Why is it so important you ask? Because it will prove, that not just one lot of Egyptians came out here, but two

separate lots. Even if they belonged to the same Research or Mapping party. Incidently, Peter, someone asked from what town Nefer Djeseb or Nefer Ti Ru came from. The Town name was Penu, known because the mice during an hostile invasion gnawed through the bow strings of the enemy, and thereby saved the town.

The Problem, Peter, is the following: When Steve Spillard wrote in an certain American book: "The Encyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology"

he relied on his own sloppy research and claimed about U.F.O visits, The Dogbone, Gardiners glyph for inheritage as well as a Bell,

which according to Betro and Budge represents a wood chisel. Out of these little things he created the basis for the Hoax story, that has bedevilled the Kariong Hieroglyphs ever since. You probably get a partial download on Google Books, it is somewhere around page 120.

A comment about the Bell (modern) It was invented in the fifteenth Century in the town of Buxtehude on the River Elbe. Remembered today by the following: Buxtehude, the town that rings it's bells by its tails.

In conclusion I add, that unlike most people, I dont hide my face behind a Pseudonym on the Internet in order to prevent people, even my peers, from knowing who I am. They know who I am. They may loathe my opinion , but they have to live with that, It is not my Problem. I am not Dan Collins, with whom I communicate every now and again by e-mail, and every one who knows me an writer, poet, politician and former trade union secretary etc. knows who I am.

Peter. I do not hide my opinion nor pretend to be someone else, just to hoodwink my peers, in order to deceive them or to protect my precious backside. I am proud of my achievements and do not hessitate to talk about them. Commonly known to all as Hans, nothing else, just Hans or Dr. Hans.

Yours in friendship

Hans-Dieter von Senff Ph.D.

Edited April 3, 2012 by The Truth hurts