[Merged] The Kariong Glyphs

[questionmark]

As cynical as I might seem at times, I really do have a lot of faith in people. This sort of thing makes that a hard position to maintain.

Harte

That is your professional deformation, as teacher you must have faith in people. As journalist I don't (in fact, my professional deformation is to assume the worst and go on from there).

Edited April 4, 2012 by questionmark

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

My father and I think that the reason people insist on giving Australia such a history of visitation by Egyptians/Phoenicians/Chinese/Aliens/what-have-you is that by Western Archaeological standards were a rather barren land, there are no Roman forts, no Etruscian ruins, no overseers tombs to be dug up and while we do have something of a thriving ancient culture(s) here most of their rituals and history are taboo to outsiders so we either don't ask or aren't told about them. So for those of us who are interested in history there's the risk of indulging in flights of fancy in order to stretch the archaelogical wings.

[cormac mac airt]

My father and I think that the reason people insist on giving Australia such a history of visitation by Egyptians/Phoenicians/Chinese/Aliens/what-have-you is that by Western Archaeological standards were a rather barren land, there are no Roman forts, no Etruscian ruins, no overseers tombs to be dug up and while we do have something of a thriving ancient culture(s) here most of their rituals and history are taboo to outsiders so we either don't ask or aren't told about them. So for those of us who are interested in history there's the risk of indulging in flights of fancy in order to stretch the archaelogical wings.

Actually, you and your dad aren't alone. I've thought much the same thing for several years now. Apparently there are some Australians for whom the existance of Aborigines before Europeans isn't enough and all they have left to fall back on is Australia starting out as an English penal colony, etc. Making ideas such as the OP a good example of "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull".

cormac

[kmt_sesh]

But, of course, it won't and you know it.

We've been debunking these glyphs for years here. Once we've finished, it pops back up in another thread.

Just like all the other ridiculous claims.

I'll say, however, that this specific one is particularly saddening. It hurts me to think anyone could look at those glyphs and actually think they are real.

As cynical as I might seem at times, I really do have a lot of faith in people. This sort of thing makes that a hard position to maintain.

Harte

I agree, Harte. There is no doubt this topic will pop up again. It's like mold: spreads like crazy and very hard to get rid of.

But now we have a lot more ammunition thanks to Artemis Flow and the information and links he's provided. Finally we have someone from the Ausie perspective who can present clear and factual information to demonstrate to would-be hoaxers that they have no ground to stand on.

Did you happen to download and peruse that PDF Hans-Dieter was promoting? I did. What's sad is that someone would spend so much time and effort (149 pages!) to peddle something that is so obviously a fraud to begin with.

[questionmark]

I agree, Harte. There is no doubt this topic will pop up again. It's like mold: spreads like crazy and very hard to get rid of.

But now we have a lot more ammunition thanks to Artemis Flow and the information and links he's provided. Finally we have someone from the Ausie perspective who can present clear and factual information to demonstrate to would-be hoaxers that they have no ground to stand on.

Did you happen to download and peruse that PDF Hans-Dieter was promoting? I did. What's sad is that someone would spend so much time and effort (149 pages!) to peddle something that is so obviously a fraud to begin with.

You have evidently not heard about a certain v. Daniken, a certain Sitchin a certain....

[kmt_sesh]

Actually, you and your dad aren't alone. I've thought much the same thing for several years now. Apparently there are some Australians for whom the existance of Aborigines before Europeans isn't enough and all they have left to fall back on is Australia starting out as an English penal colony, etc. Making ideas such as the OP a good example of "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull".

cormac

But, cormac, haven't you been reading? They're all archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists with shiny PhDs! However could their information not be factual?

Honestly, other Ausies should be offended. I agree with your and Wearer's assessment as to the motivation for these hoaxes, but that does not excuse such actions. The blatant dishonesty is offensive--not only to other Ausies but to people who actually are archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists, et cetera.

[cormac mac airt]

But, cormac, haven't you been reading? They're all archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists with shiny PhDs! However could their information not be factual?

Riiiight. And I'm the only one in the world who can translate Linear A and the Jiroft Script and they both claim that civilization was started by two sentient mice named Fred and Stan and the secret was passed on to a wombat named Steve. (and yes, that's sarcasm for the fringies out there who aren't sure)

The blatant dishonesty is offensive--not only to other Ausies but to people who actually are archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists, et cetera.

I'd agree, but I'm sure it's going to happen again...and again...and again...

cormac

[kmt_sesh]

Riiiight. And I'm the only one in the world who can translate Linear A and the Jiroft Script and they both claim that civilization was started by two sentient mice named Fred and Stan and the secret was passed on to a wombat named Steve. (and yes, that's sarcasm for the fringies out there who aren't sure)

...

cormac

Let me guess. It's not really sarcasm. You've made this remarkable discovery but instead of presenting it to a board of academics and scholars for peer-review, you've chosen an alternative-history internet forum to announce it. Sound familiar?

Don't encourage the fringies, cormac. Just...don't!

[questionmark]

Let me guess. It's not really sarcasm. You've made this remarkable discovery but instead of presenting it to a board of academics and scholars for peer-review, you've chosen an alternative-history internet forum to announce it. Sound familiar?

Don't encourage the fringies, cormac. Just...don't!

But why would he present it to a board of academics? They are just there to hide the world like ****it really is****

[cormac mac airt]

Let me guess. It's not really sarcasm. You've made this remarkable discovery but instead of presenting it to a board of academics and scholars for peer-review, you've chosen an alternative-history internet forum to announce it. Sound familiar?

Don't encourage the fringies, cormac. Just...don't!

What? You mean posting such on sites like UM doesn't constitute peer-review. Dammit, foiled again.

cormac

[questionmark]

What? You mean posting such on sites like UM doesn't constitute peer-review. Dammit, foiled again.

cormac

Nah, peer review would be an adequate description, after all the kooks have lots of peers around here

Edited April 4, 2012 by questionmark

[DingoLingo]

By reading the past few posts.. I think we can successfully say.. The Truth Hurts has really found out.. that the truth does hurt..

[jules99]

But, cormac, haven't you been reading? They're all archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists with shiny PhDs! However could their information not be factual?

Honestly, other Ausies should be offended. I agree with your and Wearer's assessment as to the motivation for these hoaxes, but that does not excuse such actions. The blatant dishonesty is offensive--not only to other Ausies but to people who actually are archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists, et cetera.

Hi kmt_sesh;

I cant speak for the motivation of the original hoaxers, I thought it was students or maybe Scouts or school kids on excursion. The site (camp Kariong) has been in use by schools, scouts and probably universities as well for literally generations. Perhaps the original pranksters were just having a laugh. Heck Spike Milligan lived near there for a while and he served in Egypt.. How things get capitalized on is another kettle of fish. Maybe the next thing will be a book or DVD on the subject..I think the bottom line could be $$. Who can stand in the way when theres $$$ to be made..(Oils again)

[questionmark]

Hi kmt_sesh;

I cant speak for the motivation of the original hoaxers, I thought it was students or maybe Scouts or school kids on excursion. The site (camp Kariong) has been in use by schools, scouts and probably universities as well for literally generations. Perhaps the original pranksters were just having a laugh. Heck Spike Milligan lived near there for a while and he served in Egypt.. How things get capitalized on is another kettle of fish. Maybe the next thing will be a book or DVD on the subject..I think the bottom line could be $. Who can stand in the way when theres $$ to be made..(Oils again)

As the guy on this board more likely to be able to answer a question about publishing: the von Senff oeuvre is so severely lacking that not even a fringe publisher would touch it with a ten foot pole, so I doubt it is money. Or at least not real money. It could be a lot of illusory money or a compensation for getting beaten up by the wife every morning but it certainly is not money. There is no money to be made by that ill written tome.

The wish for notoriety could more apply, but I think that even for that he needs a better style.

[The Truth hurts]

Thank you Artemis Flow, I have wondered for years whether you were in fact Steven Spillard or not. All I ask you, Steve, review what you have been writing in "Encyclopadia of Dubious Archaeology" years ago and doublecheck in Gardiner's "Egyptian Grammar" about the Dogbone, it is around p. 449, I think and check at the same time the Bell glyph in Budge's and find out what they really mean. Further check your claim about U.F. O's at Kariong and check your statement about "The Gosford Glyphs are a hoax."

Some years ago, you declined my invitation to look at the Air Shaft found by Paul White, you declined to investigate the through, when asked by Bob Clutton and again you declined to investigate the "Ges", the Underground chamber two meters below the East Wall, the Entry to which has now been filled in. I don't ask you to acknoledge any of this, but for your own sake, investigate it, please with an open mind.

Hans-Dieter von Senff Ph.D.

Artemis Flow.

Steve, now you claim that it is not you, who wrote the segment in the "Ëncyclopaedia of Dubious Archaeology", yet it appears under your Name. As a researcher I can only state what was found in my research, that you, and no one else is responsible for starting the claim, that the Kariong Hieroglyphics are a hoax; a claim that was swallowed by other researchers hook, line and sinker, and repeated

by all and sundry, stiffling research and brainwashing the gullible, that you had all the answers.

Hence my somewhat frustrated comment in my research paper:"Ancient Egyptians in Australia", "What kind of Egyptologist are they, who don't even know the glyph for Inheritance or the glyph for fine Woodwork, the carpenter chisel, described by you as a Bell. No, Steve, you can't wriggle out of this, or don't you remember stating : (at verbatim) "And it pains me to state , something that looks a lot like U.F.O's, a claim that reapears under various guises by other researchers, when in fact they represented something entirely different.

Steve, yet it was written under your name, "Steve Spillard",in the "Encyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology", which you now disclaim.

Even the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Services, fell for it when they used your material against the genuineness of the Kariong Glyphs, and represented flawed or faulty (Research ?) Material that was submitted to the N.S.W. Minister of State, Carmel Tebutt, in order to frustrate an Investigation by State Cabinet, whether these Glyphs needed protection. (Which they need, but this is only my professional assesment.)

Incidently Peter Cox and Spartan take note: Steve also claimed, that I persecuted him, when all I done was to talk (at Public Meetings)

about the above mentioned facts. It is not I, who persecute him... Nay, it is his own research, published under his name, that is biting the originator of the Hoax claim, where it hurts.

It was suggested that Dan Collins or myself submit our finding to our peers. Something that was rejected by me outright, because a close reading of Artemis Flows, aka Steve Spillard's post shows, that I would accept him on this subject (the Kariong Glyphs) as my peer as well as other (so-called researchers) who I claim, are flawed in their research, who, because of this, I could not, and hence would not accept as my peers.(Would you ?)

Like Steve Spillars other hidden Identity, a pseudonym "Woy Woy Steve" under which he publishes on the Internet his flawed research, I must state, that I will never accept anyone as my peer, who hides under a Pseudonym, (unless he is a Knight Templar) and is known to me by his real name and educational achievement, Yes, such person I may accept as my peer. Because the Peer review, with all it's faults, has been exposed by Artemis Flow, as a possible flawed process, where outside (flawed research), is permitted to spreads its insidious tentacles, to stiffle real, hence genuine research; and to protect the self interest of the so-called Peers.

*

I have defended Dan Collins in these pages, because I was with him in September 2011, when his wife, Anastasia and Dan were shown the Kariong Glyps, and where he (Dan Collins) found two panels of ancient glyphs, untouched by human hands since creation some 4.500 years ago. These glyphs were translated by me since and are contained in my Book: "Ancient Egyptians in Australia", which is held by the (National Library of Australia) hence are in the Public Domain.

Dan Collins aka Feral Dan stated that he found certain pictoria glyphs at Pyramid Mountain. Having seen him in action, I don't doubt it. Whether his claims are correct, I do not know. However I support Spartans suggestion in part and add the following advice. (He may not like it, but here it is...

Dan, I do not know whether this Expedition into the Pyramid Mountain was part of your Ph.D. study. If is was, and because you are writing under supervision, ask your Supervisor to insure that the parameters of your Dissertation (Thesis) are wide enough to cover the areas you claimed. I.E. Proto-Egyptian and or Sumerian. Don't forget that your writing will be read and checked at various Universities before you get your Ph.D. (Doctor of Philosophy.

I stated before that the Archaeologist Reinoud de Jonge stated: "Australia was discovered by the 2nd. King Djoser in the 3rd. Dynasty"

Because of this statement I also ask Dan Collins to bear it in mind, because what he deems to be early Sumerian Glyphs, may be in fact a Proto-Egyptian Inscription, older then the Kariong Glyphs, and carved up to 5.000 years ago.

Dan, your research will help to push the Dateposts of Australian History backwards thousands of Years. Good luck, and ignore hostile criticism, just concentrate on your task.

Hans.

*

It has been suggested by some writers, that I may be Dan Collins.

Believe me, I am not. My achievements, written or otherwise, are visible on the Internet, Just hit Google Books and add my name.

Yes, I too, use a Pseudonym (sometimes). Mine is "Karl-Werner Hadesen", under which I have written some Books and Articles. (This is just by way of Public Disclosure).

As stated previously, I disagreed with Peter Cox on the subject of Peer review, as I knew the problematics involved in this specific matter (Kariong Glyphs), that was exposed by the case of Steve Spillard and his "sloppy research". However, you will never see me not standing by whatever I stated, including research results.

Having achieved my Ph.D. in Modern Languages the hard way, not as was claimed by "Woy Woy Steve" about "Kellog's Corn Flake Box", a statement that is demeaning to all Academics world wide. But unlike Steve Spillard aka "Woy Woy Steve", who claimed, that what appeared under his name in the "Ëncyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology" was not written by him !!!, I stand by every thing I put my name to; whether people like it or not.

And yes, I have translated the glyphs at Kariong,and triple checked the Ray Johnson translation and alterd some of his findings. My translation was confirmed by Dr. Reinoud de Jonge as correct, and again my translation is available on various websites,and are included in Egyptian Grammar Reviews in "Amazon Book Reviews" in order to undermine the insidious influence of so-called researchers, who, based on Steven Spillard's Hoax claim, failed to investigate the written text, but relied instead on snippets of information supplied by Ray Johnson to Paul White.

Wishing all of you, Believers or not a Happy Easter or "Eine frohe Ostern"

Hans-Dieter von Senff, Ph.D.

Edited April 5, 2012 by The Truth hurts

[questionmark]

Artemis Flow.

Steve, now you claim that it is not you, who wrote the segment in the "Ëncyclopaedia of Dubious Archaeology", yet it appears under your Name. As a researcher I can only state what was found in my research, that you, and no one else is responsible for starting the claim, that the Kariong Hieroglyphics are a hoax; a claim that was swallowed by other researchers hook, line and sinker, and repeated

by all and sundry, stiffling research and brainwashing the gullible, that you had all the answers.

Hence my somewhat frustrated comment in my research paper:"Ancient Egyptians in Australia", "What kind of Egyptologist are they, who don't even know the glyph for Inheritance or the glyph for fine Woodwork, the carpenter chisel, described by you as a Bell. No, Steve, you can't wriggle out of this, or don't you remember stating : (at verbatim) "And it pains me to state , something that looks a lot like U.F.O's, a claim that reapears under various guises by other researchers, when in fact they represented something entirely different.

Steve, yet it was written under your name, "Steve Spillard",in the "Encyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology", which you now disclaim.

Even the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Services, fell for it when they used your material against the genuineness of the Kariong Glyphs, and represented flawed or faulty (Research ?) Material that was submitted to the N.S.W. Minister of State, Carmel Tebutt, in order to frustrate an Investigation by State Cabinet, whether these Glyphs needed protection. (Which they need, but this is only my professional assesment.)

Incidently Peter Cox and Spartan take note: Steve also claimed, that I persecuted him, when all I done was to talk (at Public Meetings)

about the above mentioned facts. It is not I, who persecute him... Nay, it is his own research, published under his name, that is biting the originator of the Hoax claim, where it hurts.

It was suggested that Dan Collins or myself submit our finding to our peers. Something that was rejected by me outright, because a close reading of Artemis Flows, aka Steve Spillard's post shows, that I would accept him on this subject (the Kariong Glyphs) as my peer as well as other (so-called researchers) who I claim, are flawed in their research, who, because of this, I could not, and hence would not accept as my peers.(Would you ?)

Like Steve Spillars other hidden Identity, a pseudonym "Woy Woy Steve" under which he publishes on the Internet his flawed research, I must state, that I will never accept anyone as my peer, who hides under a Pseudonym, (unless he is a Knight Templar) and is known to me by his real name and educational achievement, Yes, such person I may accept as my peer. Because the Peer review, with all it's faults, has been exposed by Artemis Flow, as a possible flawed process, where outside (flawed research), is permitted to spreads its insidious tentacles, to stiffle real, hence genuine research; and to protect the self interest of the so-called Peers.

*

I have defended Dan Collins in these pages, because I was with him in September 2011, when his wife, Anastasia and Dan were shown the Kariong Glyps, and where he (Dan Collins) found two panels of ancient glyphs, untouched by human hands since creation some 4.500 years ago. These glyphs were translated by me since and are contained in my Book: "Ancient Egyptians in Australia", which is held by the (National Library of Australia) hence are in the Public Domain.

Dan Collins aka Feral Dan stated that he found certain pictoria glyphs at Pyramid Mountain. Having seen him in action, I don't doubt it. Whether his claims are correct, I do not know. However I support Spartans suggestion in part and add the following advice. (He may not like it, but here it is...

Dan, I do not know whether this Expedition into the Pyramid Mountain was part of your Ph.D. study. If is was, because you are writing under supervision, ask your Supervisor to insure that the parameters of your Dissertation (Thesis) are wide enough to cover the areas you claimed. I.E. Proto-Egyptian and or Sumerian. Don't forget that your writing will be read and checked at various Universities before you get your Ph.D. (Doctor of Philosophy.

I stated before that the Archaeologist Reinoud de Jonge stated: "Australia was discovered by the 2nd. King Djoser in the 3rd. Dynasty"

Because of this statement I also ask Dan Collins to bear it in mind, because what he deems to be early Sumerian Glyphs, may be in fact a Proto-Egyptian Inscription, older then the Kariong Glyphs, and carved up to 5.000 years ago.

Dan, your research will help to push the Dateposts of Australian History backwards thousands of Years. Good luck, and ignore hostile criticism, just concentrate on your task.

Hans.

*

It has been suggested by some writers, that I may be Dan Collins.

Believe me, I am not. My achievements, written or otherwise, are visible on the Internet, Just hit Google Books and add my name.

Yes, I too, use a Pseudonym (sometimes). Mine is "Karl-Werner Hadesen", under which I have written some Books and Articles. (This is just by way of Public Disclosure).

As stated previously, I disagreed with Peter Cox on the subject of Peer review, as I knew the problematics involved in this specific matter (Kariong Glyphs), that was exposed by the case of Steve Spillard and his "sloppy research". However, you will never see me not standing by whatever I stated, including research results.

Having achieved my Ph.D. in Modern Languages the hard way, not as was claimed by "Woy Woy Steve" about "Kellog's Corn Flake Box", a statement that is demeaning to all Academics world wide. But unlike Steve Spillard aka "Woy Woy Steve", who claimed, that what appeared under his name in the "Ëncyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology" was not written by him !!!, I stand by every thing I put my name to; whether people like it or not.

And yes, I have translated the glyphs at Kariong,and triple checked the Ray Johnson translation and alterd some of his findings. My translation was confirmed by Dr. Reinoud de Jonge as correct, and again my translation is available on various websites,and are included in Egyptian Grammar Reviews in "Amazon Book Reviews" in order to undermine the insidious influence of so-called researchers, who, based on Steven Spillard's Hoax claim, failed to investigate the written text, but relied instead on snippets of information supplied by Ray Johnson to Paul White.

Wishing all of you, Believers or not a Happy Easter or "Eine frohe Ostern"

Hans-Dieter von Senff, Ph.D.

Hey don't pretend you know German, all the errors above are typical of a native English speaker.

[Swede]

Artemis Flow.

Steve, now you claim that it is not you, who wrote the segment in the "Ëncyclopaedia of Dubious Archaeology", yet it appears under your Name. As a researcher I can only state what was found in my research, that you, and no one else is responsible for starting the claim, that the Kariong Hieroglyphics are a hoax; a claim that was swallowed by other researchers hook, line and sinker, and repeated

by all and sundry, stiffling research and brainwashing the gullible, that you had all the answers.

Hence my somewhat frustrated comment in my research paper:"Ancient Egyptians in Australia", "What kind of Egyptologist are they, who don't even know the glyph for Inheritance or the glyph for fine Woodwork, the carpenter chisel, described by you as a Bell. No, Steve, you can't wriggle out of this, or don't you remember stating : (at verbatim) "And it pains me to state , something that looks a lot like U.F.O's, a claim that reapears under various guises by other researchers, when in fact they represented something entirely different.

Steve, yet it was written under your name, "Steve Spillard",in the "Encyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology", which you now disclaim.

Even the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Services, fell for it when they used your material against the genuineness of the Kariong Glyphs, and represented flawed or faulty (Research ?) Material that was submitted to the N.S.W. Minister of State, Carmel Tebutt, in order to frustrate an Investigation by State Cabinet, whether these Glyphs needed protection. (Which they need, but this is only my professional assesment.)

Incidently Peter Cox and Spartan take note: Steve also claimed, that I persecuted him, when all I done was to talk (at Public Meetings)

about the above mentioned facts. It is not I, who persecute him... Nay, it is his own research, published under his name, that is biting the originator of the Hoax claim, where it hurts.

It was suggested that Dan Collins or myself submit our finding to our peers. Something that was rejected by me outright, because a close reading of Artemis Flows, aka Steve Spillard's post shows, that I would accept him on this subject (the Kariong Glyphs) as my peer as well as other (so-called researchers) who I claim, are flawed in their research, who, because of this, I could not, and hence would not accept as my peers.(Would you ?)

Like Steve Spillars other hidden Identity, a pseudonym "Woy Woy Steve" under which he publishes on the Internet his flawed research, I must state, that I will never accept anyone as my peer, who hides under a Pseudonym, (unless he is a Knight Templar) and is known to me by his real name and educational achievement, Yes, such person I may accept as my peer. Because the Peer review, with all it's faults, has been exposed by Artemis Flow, as a possible flawed process, where outside (flawed research), is permitted to spreads its insidious tentacles, to stiffle real, hence genuine research; and to protect the self interest of the so-called Peers.

*

I have defended Dan Collins in these pages, because I was with him in September 2011, when his wife, Anastasia and Dan were shown the Kariong Glyps, and where he (Dan Collins) found two panels of ancient glyphs, untouched by human hands since creation some 4.500 years ago. These glyphs were translated by me since and are contained in my Book: "Ancient Egyptians in Australia", which is held by the (National Library of Australia) hence are in the Public Domain.

Dan Collins aka Feral Dan stated that he found certain pictoria glyphs at Pyramid Mountain. Having seen him in action, I don't doubt it. Whether his claims are correct, I do not know. However I support Spartans suggestion in part and add the following advice. (He may not like it, but here it is...

Dan, I do not know whether this Expedition into the Pyramid Mountain was part of your Ph.D. study. If is was, and because you are writing under supervision, ask your Supervisor to insure that the parameters of your Dissertation (Thesis) are wide enough to cover the areas you claimed. I.E. Proto-Egyptian and or Sumerian. Don't forget that your writing will be read and checked at various Universities before you get your Ph.D. (Doctor of Philosophy.

I stated before that the Archaeologist Reinoud de Jonge stated: "Australia was discovered by the 2nd. King Djoser in the 3rd. Dynasty"

Because of this statement I also ask Dan Collins to bear it in mind, because what he deems to be early Sumerian Glyphs, may be in fact a Proto-Egyptian Inscription, older then the Kariong Glyphs, and carved up to 5.000 years ago.

Dan, your research will help to push the Dateposts of Australian History backwards thousands of Years. Good luck, and ignore hostile criticism, just concentrate on your task.

Hans.

*

It has been suggested by some writers, that I may be Dan Collins.

Believe me, I am not. My achievements, written or otherwise, are visible on the Internet, Just hit Google Books and add my name.

Yes, I too, use a Pseudonym (sometimes). Mine is "Karl-Werner Hadesen", under which I have written some Books and Articles. (This is just by way of Public Disclosure).

As stated previously, I disagreed with Peter Cox on the subject of Peer review, as I knew the problematics involved in this specific matter (Kariong Glyphs), that was exposed by the case of Steve Spillard and his "sloppy research". However, you will never see me not standing by whatever I stated, including research results.

Having achieved my Ph.D. in Modern Languages the hard way, not as was claimed by "Woy Woy Steve" about "Kellog's Corn Flake Box", a statement that is demeaning to all Academics world wide. But unlike Steve Spillard aka "Woy Woy Steve", who claimed, that what appeared under his name in the "Ëncyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology" was not written by him !!!, I stand by every thing I put my name to; whether people like it or not.

And yes, I have translated the glyphs at Kariong,and triple checked the Ray Johnson translation and alterd some of his findings. My translation was confirmed by Dr. Reinoud de Jonge as correct, and again my translation is available on various websites,and are included in Egyptian Grammar Reviews in "Amazon Book Reviews" in order to undermine the insidious influence of so-called researchers, who, based on Steven Spillard's Hoax claim, failed to investigate the written text, but relied instead on snippets of information supplied by Ray Johnson to Paul White.

Wishing all of you, Believers or not a Happy Easter or "Eine frohe Ostern"

Hans-Dieter von Senff, Ph.D.

Your rather disjointed personal tirade aside, you are aware that de Jonge is not an archaeologist? Nor is he in a position to professionally support your "interpretations". He is a Dutch chemist with "rather" odd leanings, including some of his diffusionist positions.

http://www.howthesungod.com/reviews.html

You have yet to address, in a technical manner, your position on the weathering matter.

.

.

[kmt_sesh]

...

And yes, I have translated the glyphs at Kariong,and triple checked the Ray Johnson translation and alterd some of his findings. My translation was confirmed by Dr. Reinoud de Jonge as correct, and again my translation is available on various websites,and are included in Egyptian Grammar Reviews in "Amazon Book Reviews" in order to undermine the insidious influence of so-called researchers, who, based on Steven Spillard's Hoax claim, failed to investigate the written text, but relied instead on snippets of information supplied by Ray Johnson to Paul White.

Wishing all of you, Believers or not a Happy Easter or "Eine frohe Ostern"

Hans-Dieter von Senff, Ph.D.

Please, Hans-Dieter, let it go. Despite your personal feelings or grudges against Steve (Artemis Flow), in his few posts and in the links he provided, he more than amply demonstrated that Kariong is a hoax. Nothing about it is remotely realistic. I see you've steadfastly avoided replying to any of my own posts, but I am compelled to write this, anyway. I do not claim to be an Egyptologist or archaeologist but I have taken the training necessary to translate Egyptian inscriptions, and the Kariong glyphs say almost nothing. They definitely do not say what your Ray Johnson claimed they recorded in his "translation."

We had a real Egyptologist weigh in earlier in this thread, also by the name of Ray Johnson, thanks to The_Spartan's interest in contacting him. We were trying to make it clear that the Ray Johnson to whom you've referred is definitely not the real Egyptologist from the University of Chicago. The real Dr. Johnson provided Spartan a brief response and Spartan shared it with us. In part (refer to Post 68) Dr. Johnson explained: "I have never translated any faux Egyptian hieroglyphic inscriptions in Australia (those rock inscriptions were clearly not done by any ancient Egyptians). That Ray Johnson, whoever he is/was, has/had no association with the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, and I suspect is not an Egyptologist." Dr. Johnson would be correct, of course. Those of you who perpetuate the Kariong hoax, Hans-Dieter, are well advised to cease inventing titles and credentials for yourselves. Your Australian Ray Johnson was most certainly not an Egyptologist: no real Egyptologist would come up with such wild fantasies about fraudulent glyphs carved some years ago onto a rock face in Australia. It borders on the comical.

In closing, Hans-Dieter, I read your PDF, all 149 pages of it. I don't know if anyone else here bothered to do so, but I felt compelled to do so because of your claims. I paid particularly close attention to your "translations" (in point of fact I did not even see any transliteration work in your efforts, which no real translator would neglect to provide). What you came up with is not how translational work is done, and exceedingly little in your PDF (or in the Australian Ray Johnson's work) approaches anything like proper hieroglyphic transliteration and translation.

The Kariong glyphs are a hoax. Admit it and accept it. They resemble the work of someone who's read a basic book or two on hieroglyphs. There is no chance that they are real, and there is no chance they will ever be accepted as such. Indeed, the truth hurts.

[kmt_sesh]

Your rather disjointed personal tirade aside, you are aware that de Jonge is not an archaeologist? Nor is he in a position to professionally support your "interpretations". He is a Dutch chemist with "rather" odd leanings, including some of his diffusionist positions.

http://www.howthesungod.com/reviews.html

You have yet to address, in a technical manner, your position on the weathering matter.

.

.

Swede, earlier today I was taking a walk during my lunch break, and spent awhile at a little pond nearby my place of work. I noticed something barely poking out from the ground and kicked around a bit to reveal some old tiles.

I am not sure if the old tiles mean some structure had stood there at some point in the past or if it's just just part of retention work for the pond, but I did discover it!

Can I call myself an archaeologist now?

[Swede]

Swede, earlier today I was taking a walk during my lunch break, and spent awhile at a little pond nearby my place of work. I noticed something barely poking out from the ground and kicked around a bit to reveal some old tiles.

I am not sure if the old tiles mean some structure had stood there at some point in the past or if it's just just part of retention work for the pond, but I did discover it!

Can I call myself an archaeologist now?

Why, of course. But first you will need to assert an unfounded connection to pre-dynastic Egyptians settling in Chicago circa 18xx to 19xx ...or long distance Phoenician trade routes involving the harvesting of the wild leeks from which the city derives its name...or, most likely, aliens who felt compelled to travel for light years in order to recreate examples of recent/current technology and cleverly secrete them in obvious locations.

.

[Oniomancer]

Hence my somewhat frustrated comment in my research paper:"Ancient Egyptians in Australia", "What kind of Egyptologist are they, who don't even know the glyph for Inheritance or the glyph for fine Woodwork, the carpenter chisel, described by you as a Bell. No, Steve, you can't wriggle out of this, or don't you remember stating : (at verbatim) "And it pains me to state , something that looks a lot like U.F.O's, a claim that reapears under various guises by other researchers, when in fact they represented something entirely different.

Kmt sesh has pointed out on several occasions here in other threads that Budge is considered rather dated and inaccurate. In favoring the older translations over the newer and more accurate ones, you're committing much the same error as others have done with similar works, selectively choosing sources because they suit your purpose better.

[tipotep]

But, cormac, haven't you been reading? They're all archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists with shiny PhDs! However could their information not be factual?

Honestly, other Ausies should be offended. I agree with your and Wearer's assessment as to the motivation for these hoaxes, but that does not excuse such actions. The blatant dishonesty is offensive--not only to other Ausies but to people who actually are archaeologists and scientists and Sumerologists and linguists and Egyptologists, et cetera.

I have to agree KMT, this thread and the previous thread are a total embarrassment to us Aussies

I haven’t bothered to comment on this thread yet due to the same regurgitated nonsense being presented by the same person who quite clearly is happy to fabricate evidence and credentials .

Its would be great to have such history but the truth is a little less spectacular , the aboriginals were here first then us convicts

TiP.

[DingoLingo]

the aboriginals were here first then us convicts

TiP.

Drop Bears were first..

[Artemis Flow]

Thanks for the welcome guys , sorry I didn't properly introduce myself but you know who I am now

I am not an Egyptologist , in fact I'm a Painter and Decorator by trade lol but I do posses the ability to read and decipher BS

Nightwalker

I would also like to pick your brain some day about the various characters involved in these shenanigans. I get the impression that such pseudo-archaeology is a booming subculture in Australia partly fueled by local alternate publications like Nexus and New Dawn.

Correct , I'm not sure who is to blame here , we'll start with Rex Gilroy an old school Bigfoot hunter and faker of archaeological finds who has made a tidy sum from selling his bogus books , DVD'S etc , like all of these folks he stays away from institutions that may debunk his work and lives on the fringe of crystal bearing new agers who are quite happy to part with some dollars.

Next in line is Tim the Yowie Man , another Bigfoot hunter who also had a nice TV show and books for sale.

The common denominator I have found and it's too simple , the ones pushing the Egyptians in Australia baloney are all selling books and DVD's and conducting public talks in obscure venues

The modern day theorists like Hans , Steven Strong and Jake Cassar are all pushing the story again for personal gain , Hans and Mr Strong are selling publications and Mr Cassar is raising his public profile as he intends running in the next local election in this area , he also does quite well conducting paid ( donations.. ) tours to the site , mind you he does incorporate a bush tucker tour as well and is quite knowledgeable in this field.

I have commented on Steven Strongs doubtful theories here

Kariong: The Key to Unlocking the Truth Pt 1

Kariong: The Key to Unlocking the Truth Pt 2

A video featuring Mr Cassar is already in this thread and you can read the evaluation by History Channel presenter Tony Robinson where he calls Jakes theories entirely daft.

Mr Cassar is also the leader of the current protest group that is against the development of newly sold blocks of land sold near the glyphs recently , hence the sudden re emergence of all this silliness.

The History Channel originally contacted me to do the story ( small piece in the " History of Australia " ) but wanted someone who believed in the story so they could mock them a bit , so I was torn between getting my head on TV and pretending to be a nutter , get ridiculed and meeting my hero Tony Robinson or passing them onto Jake Cassar - as you can see my credibility has remained intact but man that sucked not meeting Tony

Why does this story keep popping up ?

The glpyhs site is in the boundaries of Brisbane Waters National Park , Kariong , NSW , Australia , adjacent to this site is a large private land holding , every decade or so the owner manages to sell it off and the new owners try to develop on it.

As this land is in a sensitive Aboriginal area and is relatively unspoilt with some rare plants and animals , the local community tries to stop the developers with various protests etc , the local council has also stopped any development of these blocks in over 10 instances due to public pressure and badly proposed Development Applications by various owners.

The story in the media and the closeness of the glyphs site invariably attract a new lot of interested persons who make the pilgrimage to the site armed with torches and camera to conduct their own research , now everyone is an expert with an opinion.

The glyphs site is not in the middle of nowhere , you drive there park in a nice carpark , walk down a road for 200 metres and skip through some light bush and you are there in less than 30 minutes , you enter the crevice through a hole in the wall ala Indian Jones style and immediately forget you just walked down a 150 year old road and past the remnants of 3 farms

Every man and his dog has been there .........

kmt_sesh

A most sincere welcome to UM, Artemis. We thank you for your contributions based on personal, first-hand experience in this matter. It's perfectly obvious from the start that the Kariong glyphs are a hoax, and not a very good one at that. I am not an Egyptologist but am trained in hieroglyphs, and what one sees at Kariong is, at best, amusing. I only wish we could put you on retainer--this stuff pops up every now and then. We recently had a discussion initiated by one Daniel Collins who claimed to have discovered an inscription in Australia at Pyramid Mountain that was inscribed with early Sumerian cuneiform, and as patently ridiculous as that discussion was, we at least could breathe a sigh of relief when the Mods locked it. But then Hans-Dieter comes along and resurrects the hoax of the Kariong glyphs, which no reputable historian of any training would take seriously. Understandably, many of us have openly wondered if Daniel and Hans-Dieter are the same person, although I have to admit Hans-Dieter seems to have a different and somewhat better writing style.

Thanks mate , no need for a retainer just email me , I'm not sure if the Pyramid Mountain story is the same one as the Gympie Pyramid / Ape / Man story but is inhabits the same place on the web I suspect , I have done a small amount of research on the Gympie Pyramid story and have found satisfactory evidence that explains the phenomena , of course no evidence that proves the Egyptians / Sumerians / Phonecians built it or visited Australia ........

Can supply info when needed on this one !

Wearer of Hats, on 04 April 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

My father and I think that the reason people insist on giving Australia such a history of visitation by Egyptians/Phoenicians/Chinese/Aliens/what-have-you is that by Western Archaeological standards were a rather barren land, there are no Roman forts, no Etruscian ruins, no overseers tombs to be dug up and while we do have something of a thriving ancient culture(s) here most of their rituals and history are taboo to outsiders so we either don't ask or aren't told about them. So for those of us who are interested in history there's the risk of indulging in flights of fancy in order to stretch the archaelogical wings.

cormac

Actually, you and your dad aren't alone. I've thought much the same thing for several years now. Apparently there are some Australians for whom the existance of Aborigines before Europeans isn't enough and all they have left to fall back on is Australia starting out as an English penal colony, etc. Making ideas such as the OP a good example of "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull".

This I think is partly true , we have some of the most fascinating sandstone formations in the world around here , there is stuff that looks man made but it's all natural ( some great photos here to explain the shapes in Hawkesbury Sandstone www.elvina.info )

There is also one of the highest concentrations of Aboriginal rock art in Australia in this region , to protect it the locations are kept secret and the public sees little of it , because we killed all the Aboriginals in this area 180 years ago , no one knows what half the artworks actually mean , the Australian public knows little and understands less of his own native residents.

But if you look into Aboriginal history you will find that it is complex and outdates many known civilisations , these people lived with mega fauna and recorded it , they knew how to give live blood transfusions thousands of years ago and recorded the movements of the stars and seasons , it saddens me that people just don't care to educate themselves.

So they make stuff up I guess , archaeological hoaxes go back a long way and were originally done to inflate / destroy land prices amongst other dodgy dealings , modern day ones like the Kariong Glyphs are straight out good old Aussie humour let loose in the bush - see

for instance

Hans Von Senff - I formally charge with being a sloppy researcher and failed Googler please Google the books title and go here to Amazon and learn who wrote the book for yourself for gods sake man

I will supply you with some info as you seem to have trouble reading

Kenneth L. Feder is a professor of archaeology at Central Connecticut State University. He has authored several books on archaeology and criticism of pseudoarchaeology such as Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology. He gained his Bachelor of Arts in Anthropology in 1973 from the State University of New York at Stony Brook, his Master of Arts in anthropology from the University of Connecticut in 1975 and his Ph.D. in anthropology in 1982. He is the founder and director of the Farmington River Archaeological Project which studies the prehistory of the region. He has also appeared on the ancient astronauts episode of the National Geographic Channel's Is It Real? and several episodes of the BBC documentary series Horizon discussing Atlantis and Caral. In 2004 he spoke at the World Skeptics Congress in Italy. His book Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology

http://www.amazon.com/Kenneth-L.-Feder/e/B001IQW63E/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1

I did not write the book or the entry on the glyphs I submitted the photo and you can see my name there under it , I may have a credit in the Acknowledgements index , haven't checked , I also gave permission to Mr Feder to use whatever info he wanted from my research , his entry consists of part of my work and others pieced together , I can easily indentify what are my words and what is common knowledge , a lot of my work comes from studying other pages on the glyphs so don't think I'm just making it all up and by trying to debunk me that you will rid yourself of non believers matey ok?

There are plenty of other peoples valid assessments on the glyphs you have not even dared to challenge and you know it

The National Parks and Wildlife DID NOT USE MY MATERIAL in there assessment on the glyphs , in 1983 when they were examined by them I was at the beach surfing and generally unaware of the whole story.

I'm not going to go into detail on this one because you are simply lying or that stupid you can't read or understand that letter I posted in this thread from the NPWS , your conspiracy theory sits well with pseudo - archaeologists like yourself it is one of the first tell tale signs.

I have made no claims that you have persecuted me at public meetings , you are a liar , this is the first I have heard of this and believe me right now Hans I live 10 minutes from the Kariong Arts Barn and will see you there in person next time your loony tunes sideshow rolls into town....

My user name for Blogspot is Woy Woy Steve , well researched Einstein ! now if you had any idea of user names and internet nicknames and look at most people that publish blogs there , not many do it under there real names for the simple fact of privacy reasons ( who knows some loony might attack you in public )

But your like 85 years old aren't you ? and a hypocrite Karl - get off the net old man um The Truth Hurts what kind of a troll name is that ? pot+kettle=black

Is this how you really want to be remembered Hans ? , you words will stay here long after you are gone , you will sit along side Rex Gilroy and Ray Johnson in Tuts ship of fools , no one is buying what you are peddling.

Get a reply back from the British Museum yet ? dare to publish it ?

See you at Kariong next time eh .....

Edited April 5, 2012 by Artemis Flow

[DingoLingo]

Hmmm been trying to find out a bit more info on Mr Truth.. as far as I can see.. his Ph D is in Modern Languages according to his amazon profile..

No where does he mention any training.. crediting studying of ancient languages etc..

Doing a bit of a google search.. he has been pushing this on as many forums as he can find for the past couple of years.. and browsing through them.. I cannot find anyone actually believing him..

All the questions you guys have raised here and asking for proof etc.. has been asked of him before on other forums.. to date.. he has supplied none.. or actually answered the questions..

At a guess.. going by his track record on the other forums.. he will post maybe .. one or two times more.. then disappear into the eithers.. to reappear spreading the same crap.. on a different forum.