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Karlis

Marine Sgt. Gary Stein faces discharge

70 posts in this topic

Which means that there is already a discipline problem.

Agreed. This government has no discipline what so ever. Its sad that people in our armed forces even have to have these conversations. Many of them are very concerned about the unconstitutional over reach of power.

Its funny that there are folks who think this guy did something that deserves punnishment. And at the same time defend a government who is constantly passing/and or trying to pass legislation that directly violates the highest laws of the land. Many would rather kill the messanger (so to speak) then to confront the real criminals. Why do people feel the law should be applied to everyone and anyone, accept for the people who create and enforce them?

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Great story! Kinda like Oath Keepers. :yes:

It's good to see the citizen stand up to the govt. As a soldier he did not have to accept an illegal order, as it were.

But it goes to show the Obama Unitary Executive prowess!

He serves the same people Bush did, is my bet. :P

Well said.

There is no question 0bama serves the same people Bush did. Just look at both of thier campaign donors. They are both sold out globalist scum. To bad people dont hold this government to the same standards as they do little guys like this soldier. Who didnt even really break any laws at all.

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Long live Ehren Watada! :yes:

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Agreed. This government has no discipline what so ever. Its sad that people in our armed forces even have to have these conversations. Many of them are very concerned about the unconstitutional over reach of power.

Its funny that there are folks who think this guy did something that deserves punnishment. And at the same time defend a government who is constantly passing/and or trying to pass legislation that directly violates the highest laws of the land. Many would rather kill the messanger (so to speak) then to confront the real criminals. Why do people feel the law should be applied to everyone and anyone, accept for the people who create and enforce them?

You never were in a situation where you had to keep people functioning come hell or high water without squabbling, have you? Else you would know exactly what I mean by "discipline problem".

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You never were in a situation where you had to keep people functioning come hell or high water without squabbling, have you? Else you would know exactly what I mean by "discipline problem".

Keep people functioning?? THEY are the law breakers.

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Never mind that he is still a citizen of the united states... that has fought for the united states... we can leave that aside... but you think he should have his whole life destroyed over his expressed opinions? A Dishonorable Discharge is no joke... he will never be able to work in a field that requires a security clearance... and most employers see that on your DD-214 and its an automatic No Hire.

Well, you should know as well as anyone, that when we enter military service, in particular in the US, that we give up many of our "rights" under the constitution.

In addition, he seems to have been warned at least once to cease and desist, but decided his constitutional rights trumped his responsibilities as a member of the armed services and a US Marine.

All military members may express their opinions in a civilian capacity, but this individual expressed his AS a member of the armed services. There is a huge difference.

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Well, you should know as well as anyone, that when we enter military service, in particular in the US, that we give up many of our "rights" under the constitution.

In addition, he seems to have been warned at least once to cease and desist, but decided his constitutional rights trumped his responsibilities as a member of the armed services and a US Marine.

All military members may express their opinions in a civilian capacity, but this individual expressed his AS a member of the armed services. There is a huge difference.

He has a constitutional right to express himself out of uniform.

We are talking about a government who has ordered Marines to protect poppy fields. They have trained to disarm Americans, and have even gone so far as to do exactly that during Katrina. On high land, where there wasnt even a problem. We have bombed cities full of innocent non combative civilians, without constitutional authority. The government has ordered our good men and women to violate the constitutional oath they took when joining the service. For them to not speak out would be a moral violation. If our government would just confine themselfs to the constitutional oath they took when entering thier office, there wouldnt be a problem. Our service members swore to defend this country from all enemies, including domestic. We should be thankful to those who expose tyranny. We should also be thankful all these service member are only speaking, instead of declaring war on the criminals in office.

Through freedom stripping unconstitutional legislation this government has waged a war against the American people. They have alined themselfs with banks, to big to fail companies, the private federal reserve, and the military industrial complex. Why would we not hold them to the same stardard some here want to hold this soldier to? He has done far less (if anything at all) to break the laws of this land then the people who run this country. How does a soldier protect this nation from a domestic enemy, if he cant even speak about it?

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Outstanding post, Preacherman! :yes:

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He has a constitutional right to express himself out of uniform.

We are talking about a government who has ordered Marines to protect poppy fields. They have trained to disarm Americans, and have even gone so far as to do exactly that during Katrina. On high land, where there wasnt even a problem. We have bombed cities full of innocent non combative civilians, without constitutional authority. The government has ordered our good men and women to violate the constitutional oath they took when joining the service. For them to not speak out would be a moral violation. If our government would just confine themselfs to the constitutional oath they took when entering thier office, there wouldnt be a problem. Our service members swore to defend this country from all enemies, including domestic. We should be thankful to those who expose tyranny. We should also be thankful all these service member are only speaking, instead of declaring war on the criminals in office.

Through freedom stripping unconstitutional legislation this government has waged a war against the American people. They have alined themselfs with banks, to big to fail companies, the private federal reserve, and the military industrial complex. Why would we not hold them to the same stardard some here want to hold this soldier to? He has done far less (if anything at all) to break the laws of this land then the people who run this country. How does a soldier protect this nation from a domestic enemy, if he cant even speak about it?

You're making an assortment of assumptions, and claims. This is not about those claims. This is about a Marine making comments as a Marine, about his behavior and his opinion in his capacity as a Marine. As a Marine, he does NOT have those constitutional rights. He does have the right to disobey an unlawful order, and have that act judged at a later date by a group of his military superiors and peers.

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He has a constitutional right to express himself out of uniform.

We are talking about a government who has ordered Marines to protect poppy fields. They have trained to disarm Americans, and have even gone so far as to do exactly that during Katrina. On high land, where there wasnt even a problem. We have bombed cities full of innocent non combative civilians, without constitutional authority. The government has ordered our good men and women to violate the constitutional oath they took when joining the service. For them to not speak out would be a moral violation. If our government would just confine themselfs to the constitutional oath they took when entering thier office, there wouldnt be a problem. Our service members swore to defend this country from all enemies, including domestic. We should be thankful to those who expose tyranny. We should also be thankful all these service member are only speaking, instead of declaring war on the criminals in office.

Through freedom stripping unconstitutional legislation this government has waged a war against the American people. They have alined themselfs with banks, to big to fail companies, the private federal reserve, and the military industrial complex. Why would we not hold them to the same stardard some here want to hold this soldier to? He has done far less (if anything at all) to break the laws of this land then the people who run this country. How does a soldier protect this nation from a domestic enemy, if he cant even speak about it?

There are ways he can express himself without outright refusing to obey the Commander in Chief. This sort of reaction is reflective of the impatient individual who thinks his or her interpretation and perspective are 100% correct and others are wrong. They desire immediacy to reconcile their feelings. No country is without its mistakes. No military operation is without its mistakes. It is not up to the individual to try to force change by going public with his concerns if he is in the military. If he doesn't agree with the military he has the right to ask to be discharged. However people want to have their cake and eat it too. This is what is annoying.

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You're making an assortment of assumptions, and claims. This is not about those claims. This is about a Marine making comments as a Marine, about his behavior and his opinion in his capacity as a Marine. As a Marine, he does NOT have those constitutional rights. He does have the right to disobey an unlawful order, and have that act judged at a later date by a group of his military superiors and peers.

No, this is about a marine making comments in civilian clothes regarding the over-reach of power by our federal government. He is fully within his right to do so. You can say it isnt about those claims, but without them, and other claims, he wouldnt have said what he did.

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No, this is about a marine making comments in civilian clothes regarding the over-reach of power by our federal government. He is fully within his right to do so. You can say it isnt about those claims, but without them, and other claims, he wouldnt have said what he did.

Not as long as he identifies him,self as member of the armed forces. That violates at least a dozen UCMJ rules, the first is making a statement as Marine NOT wearing the uniform.

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There are ways he can express himself without outright refusing to obey the Commander in Chief. This sort of reaction is reflective of the impatient individual who thinks his or her interpretation and perspective are 100% correct and others are wrong. They desire immediacy to reconcile their feelings. No country is without its mistakes. No military operation is without its mistakes. It is not up to the individual to try to force change by going public with his concerns if he is in the military. If he doesn't agree with the military he has the right to ask to be discharged. However people want to have their cake and eat it too. This is what is annoying.

This has nothing to do with mistakes. This has to do with our government willfuly violating the very document they swore to protect. It isnt a matter of interpretation. Cause the constitution leaves no room for half the freedom stripping legislation brought on by this and other administrations. Why dont you hold this administration to the same standards you hold for this soldier? Who technicaly did nothing wrong

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Not as long as he identifies him,self as member of the armed forces. That violates at least a dozen UCMJ rules, the first is making a statement as Marine NOT wearing the uniform.

He didnt do anything but expose the truth. I see nothing but honor in what he did. The people who want to silence him do so that thier crimes wont be exposed. Thats where evil florishes, in the dark. What has this man seen or heard that would make him even talk about armed forces disarming the American people? But no, we'd rather kill the messanger.

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He didnt do anything but expose the truth. I see nothing but honor in what he did. The people who want to silence him do so that thier crimes wont be exposed. Thats where evil florishes, in the dark. What has this man seen or heard that would make him even talk about armed forces disarming the American people? But no, we'd rather kill the messanger.

Breaching discipline, as a member of the military, always has consequences. And in this case there was no message, there was somebody who knew the rules and chose to disobey them to make a political statement. If you make choices you have to face the music. As simple as that.

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Great story! Kinda like Oath Keepers. :yes:

It's good to see the citizen stand up to the govt. As a soldier he did not have to accept an illegal order, as it were.

But it goes to show the Obama Unitary Executive prowess!

He serves the same people Bush did, is my bet. :P

How does this have anything to do with Obama? He didn't fire this guy. The Marine violated military rules and got nailed for it. He got nailed rather harshly, though perhaps he's done this kind of thing a few times before and was out of warnings. Or maybe the military wanted to make an example of him, sick of soldiers giving people the belief that the government is going to kill them off any day now.

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He didnt do anything but expose the truth. I see nothing but honor in what he did. The people who want to silence him do so that thier crimes wont be exposed. Thats where evil florishes, in the dark. What has this man seen or heard that would make him even talk about armed forces disarming the American people? But no, we'd rather kill the messanger.

Says you.

He clearly violated the UCMJ by representing as a Marine and making these statements, as a Marine. Period. End of story. Read the UCMJ. The UCMJ which, by the way, has been around for a long time.

You turning this into some conspiracy theory is absurd.

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Breaching discipline, as a member of the military, always has consequences. And in this case there was no message, there was somebody who knew the rules and chose to disobey them to make a political statement. If you make choices you have to face the music. As simple as that.

Unless you are the king. Then you can breach the highest laws in the land, and if desired send to prison or discharge, or repremand anyone that questions your authority. Or points out the fact that they are being trained to violate some of the very principles that led them to join the service to begin with. Not everyone has to face the music. 0bama is at least in part responcible for 30,000 dead lybians, in a direct violation of our constitution. Directly took his orders from foreign banks. Or do you think its a coincidence that within the first week of the take over, while much of lybia is still in ruins, that they found the time and resources to build a central bank?

This man has a obligation to stand against domestic enemies. AGAIN I ask, why shouldnt this administration be held to the same standard as you'd have this soldier held to? Why?

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How does this have anything to do with Obama? He didn't fire this guy. The Marine violated military rules and got nailed for it. He got nailed rather harshly, though perhaps he's done this kind of thing a few times before and was out of warnings. Or maybe the military wanted to make an example of him, sick of soldiers giving people the belief that the government is going to kill them off any day now.

There is something about that. Somebody above said something about blogs and similar, after checking up on some I have to conclude that the forces do have a discipline problem when it comes to non-political partisanship. We can expect that the reaction will be as it always is in cases like this: you cut of the heads of those sticking out the most. This one surely was a foot higher than the others.

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Says you.

He clearly violated the UCMJ by representing as a Marine and making these statements, as a Marine. Period. End of story. Read the UCMJ. The UCMJ which, by the way, has been around for a long time.

You turning this into some conspiracy theory is absurd.

I didnt make a statement, I asked a question. Asking why this man feels the need to declare he wont obey unlawful orders, like disarming the American people, had to come from somewhere. Why should it be "absurd" to question why he said that? I dont understand why you want to lay the hammer on this guy without even questioning why he said what he did. 0bama has become a enemy to the American people. This man took a oath to defend us from such people.

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I didnt make a statement, I asked a question. Asking why this man feels the need to declare he wont obey unlawful orders, like disarming the American people, had to come from somewhere. Why should it be "absurd" to question why he said that? I dont understand why you want to lay the hammer on this guy without even questioning why he said what he did. 0bama has become a enemy to the American people. This man took a oath to defend us from such people.

And yet he and the Oath Keepers haven't marched on Washington to remove Obama from office.

I know for me personally what this guy did is annoying because he's already declared that he won't obey unlawful orders. Doing it again and very publically seems to be attention grabbing and politically motivated. He doesn't like the current administration so he acts like they're evil to make people scared.

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There is something about that. Somebody above said something about blogs and similar, after checking up on some I have to conclude that the forces do have a discipline problem when it comes to non-political partisanship. We can expect that the reaction will be as it always is in cases like this: you cut of the heads of those sticking out the most. This one surely was a foot higher than the others.

Not really. Ive seen service members live on CNN in uniform endorcing Ron Paul. Heck thousands of them marched to the white house, many in uniform to endorce Ron Paul. Its because the machine as become so odious that to not stand against it would be the same as the nazi's who claimed they were just following orders.

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I didnt make a statement, I asked a question. Asking why this man feels the need to declare he wont obey unlawful orders, like disarming the American people, had to come from somewhere. Why should it be "absurd" to question why he said that? I dont understand why you want to lay the hammer on this guy without even questioning why he said what he did. 0bama has become a enemy to the American people. This man took a oath to defend us from such people.

You clearly made a statement, and presented opinion as fact.

"He didnt do anything but expose the truth."

Your words.

What you are CLEARLY not getting or understanding, is how military service and the UCMJ work.

It's absurd because you are clearly attempting to turn his into a conspiracy about him "knowing" something. What he said is the opinion of many military members. No military member wants to or knowingly would follow an unlawful order. This guy pointed out, that as a Marine, in active duty service, he would refuse to follow what HE CONSIDERS to be unlawful orders if they came from Obama. Not from just any president or officer appointed over him, but specifically Obama.

He violated the UCMJ, and he did so after being warned more than once to stop.

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And yet he and the Oath Keepers haven't marched on Washington to remove Obama from office.

I know for me personally what this guy did is annoying because he's already declared that he won't obey unlawful orders. Doing it again and very publically seems to be attention grabbing and politically motivated. He doesn't like the current administration so he acts like they're evil to make people scared.

This administration is evil. And people should be scared, and angry. This needs attention. Thats like saying people who voiced hatred of Hilter did so just to make people scared. No they did so cause Hilter was evil, and there was good reason to be scared.

Many service members did march on Washington to endorce Ron Paul. Thats basicaly the same as Marching to remove 0bama. Sure they havent takin up arms. And I pray it never comes to that. But that doesnt mean they dont see the hand writting on the wall so to speak. When 70% of military political donations go to Ron Paul, you know something is up. Most of the military feels exactly like this soldier feels.

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You clearly made a statement, and presented opinion as fact.

"He didnt do anything but expose the truth."

Your words.

Those are not the words you bolded from my comment.

What you are CLEARLY not getting or understanding, is how military service and the UCMJ work.

It's absurd because you are clearly attempting to turn his into a conspiracy about him "knowing" something. What he said is the opinion of many military members. No military member wants to or knowingly would follow an unlawful order. This guy pointed out, that as a Marine, in active duty service, he would refuse to follow what HE CONSIDERS to be unlawful orders if they came from Obama. Not from just any president or officer appointed over him, but specifically Obama.

He violated the UCMJ, and he did so after being warned more than once to stop.

Im not trying to make a conspiracy about him knowing anything. Im just asking what he does know that would make him say such a thing. And there is nothing absurd about that. Of course he specificaly meantioned 0bama. He is the commander and chief. Now if there was reason to believe he would follow a unlawful order from another president, Id be with you. But I see no evidence of that.

Also the things he meantioned in regard to disobeying orders are not up for interpretation. If he was ordered to do any of the things meantioned it would be without a doubt a unlawful order. His consideration is not relevent when it comes to things like disarming the American people. Its as black and white as it gets.

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