" Tree Knocking " For Bigfoot

[Rafterman]

Dude, if you can't tell the difference from a woodpecker knock and a primate knock then you probably shouldn't be in the woods alone. Just saying, I've never heard any species of woodpecker make a knock like that.......granted, I haven't heard them all and there could be some mutant strain of woodpecker that's louder than others, but still.

Sorry I wasn't aware I was in the presence of a primate wood knock expert. How much time have you spent in the jungle?

How exactly does one differentiate between a primate knock and other knocks? Where have you heard such primate knocks?

[keninsc]

Sorry I wasn't aware I was in the presence of a primate wood knock expert. How much time have you spent in the jungle?

How exactly does one differentiate between a primate knock and other knocks? Where have you heard such primate knocks?

Expert on wood knocking? Depends on how you wish to define the term "expert" really. Personally, I've been banging on trees since I was a kid and I know most species of birds, woodpeckers....Ravens.... and such that make knocking sounds. Here's something simple, go out to a tree......any tree in any location, could be your back yard. Have with you a wooden bat, club, dead tree limb, whatever and bang on the tree as hard and fast as you can. Record it if you must, then listen to the sounds of woodpeckers or whatever. If you think they sound alike then you need to have your hearing checked. The pitch, rhythm and cadence are all wrong. They sound nothing alike.

You don't have to be a certified expert to be able to hear, however sadly, many people hear anything in the woods they jump to the conclusion they just hear a "Squatch", because it's what they want to hear. Truth is if you can't tell the difference then you shouldn't be out in the woods unless accompanied by an adult.

[Rafterman]

Expert on wood knocking? Depends on how you wish to define the term "expert" really. Personally, I've been banging on trees since I was a kid and I know most species of birds, woodpeckers....Ravens.... and such that make knocking sounds. Here's something simple, go out to a tree......any tree in any location, could be your back yard. Have with you a wooden bat, club, dead tree limb, whatever and bang on the tree as hard and fast as you can. Record it if you must, then listen to the sounds of woodpeckers or whatever. If you think they sound alike then you need to have your hearing checked. The pitch, rhythm and cadence are all wrong. They sound nothing alike.

You don't have to be a certified expert to be able to hear, however sadly, many people hear anything in the woods they jump to the conclusion they just hear a "Squatch", because it's what they want to hear. Truth is if you can't tell the difference then you shouldn't be out in the woods unless accompanied by an adult.

So that would be a "no" then. Thanks for confirming that.

And I would agree. Most Bigfoot "experts" shouldn't be in the woods unless accompanied by an adult.

[keninsc]

Well, I don't know if it's a "no" or not because you never defined the term "expert" for me.

I do have ears and can hear reasonably well, am familiar with most knocking sounds I hear in the woods. Am I required to have a Ph. D. in order to listen?

[+DieChecker]

@ Sakari:

Did not mean to disrespect your thread. The title does say Tree Knocking for Bigfoot. So I posted other stuff that refered to Bigfoot Tree Knocking. I recognized your point and thought to make a couple of my own.

[Rafterman]

Well, I don't know if it's a "no" or not because you never defined the term "expert" for me.

I do have ears and can hear reasonably well, am familiar with most knocking sounds I hear in the woods. Am I required to have a Ph. D. in order to listen?

You're the one who made the claim that no one could confuse woodpecker/bird knocks with primate knocks thus implying that you have experience with primate knocks.

I simply asked you to confirm that given that I myself have never heard a primate knock.

[Rafterman]

As an aside, I was walking out to my car this morning and could clearly hear a woodpecker knocking in the little nature preserve across the road from my house. He was clearly distant, but the sound was crisp and distinct. And it was not rapid. It was the very slow and methodical knocking that they do when looking for food.

More than likely one of our neighborhood Pileateds.

[Sakari]

Dude, if you can't tell the difference from a woodpecker knock and a primate knock then you probably shouldn't be in the woods alone. Just saying, I've never heard any species of woodpecker make a knock like that.......granted, I haven't heard them all and there could be some mutant strain of woodpecker that's louder than others, but still.

Can you share some recordings of a Primate doing a tree knock in the forests where Bigfoot claims are?

I would like to try to find some, and post both here with no video, and see just how good your ears are.......Not only is tree knocking mistaken, ( unless Bigfoot is real, considering people report the knocks, and primates not discovered on these continents I am refering to ) but Elk calls, fox calls, Owl screams also......So appearently a lot of people making claims should not be in the woods alone, or believing the claims.

@ Sakari:

Did not mean to disrespect your thread. The title does say Tree Knocking for Bigfoot. So I posted other stuff that refered to Bigfoot Tree Knocking. I recognized your point and thought to make a couple of my own.

I do not see anywhere that you dis-respected anything Die....It just seemed to me that maybe you did not see the video yet....I did not mean any disrespect.....

[msmike1]

Woodpeckers come in many shapes and sizes. In my area we have the piliated woodpecker that gets very big and makes a lot of freakin noise. The amount of noise it makes can also depend on what it is pecking on. Hollow tree limb = more projected noise. Hardwood tree like an oak = more noise as opposed to a softwood like a pine. Woodpeckers are not the only animals that beat things on trees. Squirrels will bang the crap out of nuts on trees to crack them open. It can be quite loud depending on what type of nut they are trying to eat.

Owls also make an extremely loud popping sound that is usually a defensive sound, but also sounds like a knock and is really loud.

Mike

Edited April 12, 2012 by msmike1

[keninsc]

You're the one who made the claim that no one could confuse woodpecker/bird knocks with primate knocks thus implying that you have experience with primate knocks.

I simply asked you to confirm that given that I myself have never heard a primate knock.

True, and you are the one who hasn't defined the term expert as yet. If you want to hear recordings of primate tree knocking try using Google, however you are the one suggesting that woodpeckers and primate tree knocking can be confused my only misgiving in this was telling you you are mistaken and your ego can't handle it. If Googling is too much for you to do then do some research and head down to a zoo where they have primates and give a listen.

Yes, yes, you know it all and damn anyone who tells you different. You'd do well at the BFRO, only to you everything is a woodpecker.

I'm not disrespecting you either, I simply think you're an idiot with an ego problem. A rather deadly combination. Then when someone calls you on it you simply become indignant and then demand I prove you're wrong. On a subject of speculation for which you know already that there is no proof. Get over your ego and try and learn something.

Edited April 12, 2012 by keninsc

[keninsc]

Woodpeckers come in many shapes and sizes. In my area we have the piliated woodpecker that gets very big and makes a lot of freakin noise. The amount of noise it makes can also depend on what it is pecking on. Hollow tree limb = more projected noise. Hardwood tree like an oak = more noise as opposed to a softwood like a pine. Woodpeckers are not the only animals that beat things on trees. Squirrels will bang the crap out of nuts on trees to crack them open. It can be quite loud depending on what type of nut they are trying to eat.

Owls also make an extremely loud popping sound that is usually a defensive sound, but also sounds like a knock and is really loud.

Mike

You're kidding, right? Seriously? A squirrel? I've heard the owl pops and again I say if you can't tell the difference between a primate tree banging and that then you are gravely mistaken. I'm pretty sure I'm going to wind up blocking Rafterman's posts just because his ego is something I don't want to deal with but Dude, a freaking squirrel?.......banging his nuts on a hollow tree? I need some of whatever you guys smoke when ya'll are get together and posting on here.

[Sakari]

True, and you are the one who hasn't defined the term expert as yet. If you want to hear recordings of primate tree knocking try using Google, however you are the one suggesting that woodpeckers and primate tree knocking can be confused my only misgiving in this was telling you you are mistaken and your ego can't handle it. If Googling is too much for you to do then do some research and head down to a zoo where they have primates and give a listen.

Yes, yes, you know it all and damn anyone who tells you different. You'd do well at the BFRO, only to you everything is a woodpecker.

I'm not disrespecting you either, I simply think you're an idiot with an ego problem. A rather deadly combination. Then when someone calls you on it you simply become indignant and then demand I prove you're wrong. On a subject of speculation for which you know already that there is no proof. Get over your ego and try and learn something.

I had asked about where I can find samples of primates in North America banging on trees........Considering people report this ( bigfooters ), and we know other animals do it, and we ( ok most of us ) also know it sounds the same as the audio of " tree knocking " from footers, I find it safe to say it can be woodpeckers, or other animals.....Known animals.

You are the one whom said anyone whom can not hear the difference is ( forgot what you called us ).....That says you can tell the difference.

A good individual spouting off like this will supply a link, or some evidence to support said opinion......Or take the time to google to provide a link.

I googled " primates tree knocking ".........3 pages of bigfoot crap, not a one of a primate tree knocking.......Seems as if this is a squatters claim........

This tells me you are wrong.......

On a off topic thing.......Why do you get off calling people names in a normal discussion?......I have seen this numerous times, and I would call it flamebaiting.Not sure why you can not have a discussion without name calling, or crying like a baby.....Maybe this is not the place for you?

Some of your replies show you can have a good discussion, but than you go off.........Drinking?

Anyway, in between typing, I also googled " do primates tree knock ".......Nothing but bigfoot talk.......

" do monkeys tree knock " .........Nothing but bigfoot talk........

So, I learned another thing, people whom claim primates tree knock are ignorant, and get their information from claims of squatchers and call it reality.......Another false claim to throw off the guillible.

Correct me if I am wrong and I will gladly say I am wrong.

[keninsc]

You are deeply mistaken dear fellow, it's not my job to educate you. However, in an effort to do so feudal as it may seem, I suggest you check on Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey's research in which they documented such activity on primates. Not to mention that humans do it as well......oh, humans are primates too. Now humans did evolve a bit more and substituted drums for wood knocking. African tribesmen still employ this as an effective means of communication to this very day. It's the old 'monkey see, monkey do' thing.

.....you do know it takes a couple of tries to get a correct result with a search engine, right? It isn't my fault the internet is loaded with all sorts of things on Bigfoot. Take my word for it, I didn't post it there.

I also told you to go out and bang on a tree yourself so you could get an idea of the frequency, pitch and acoustical tone of such activity. I'm guessing you didn't do that either?

....woodpeckers? Squirrels banging nuts? C'mon guys.

[Sakari]

You are deeply mistaken dear fellow, it's not my job to educate you. However, in an effort to do so feudal as it may seem, I suggest you check on Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey's research in which they documented such activity on primates. Not to mention that humans do it as well......oh, humans are primates too. Now humans did evolve a bit more and substituted drums for wood knocking. African tribesmen still employ this as an effective means of communication to this very day. It's the old 'monkey see, monkey do' thing.

.....you do know it takes a couple of tries to get a correct result with a search engine, right? It isn't my fault the internet is loaded with all sorts of things on Bigfoot. Take my word for it, I didn't post it there.

I also told you to go out and bang on a tree yourself so you could get an idea of the frequency, pitch and acoustical tone of such activity. I'm guessing you didn't do that either?

....woodpeckers? Squirrels banging nuts? C'mon guys.

I live on 34 acres, BLM forest behind that.Bow hunted for over 20 years, camped since age 4 ( in the woods, not in travel trailers )..........................Think I have not heard, nor banged on trees?....C'mon guy.

You are a very arrogant person, and also very stubborn,......And, might I add, ignorant of the " opinions " you try to pull off as facts.....

Until you provide a link ( reputable and verifiable evidence ) that shows primates tree knock, I call you , well, a liar or sadly mistaken..............No offense.....You are not educating anyone, I can promise that.( except maybe on your posts that are respectful ).....It is your job to back up a claim, not mine to disprove it.

As said, if I am wrong, I will admit it........Facts are facts, opinions are not........

Again, no offense intended.

edit to add.......Nothing I can find on Jane Goodal, or Dian Fossey showing that primates tree knock......I guess your wrong again.

Edit to add more......40 facts on monkeys......Dang if not one mentions tree knocking....

40 Random Facts About . . .

Monkeys

1. The origins of the word "monkey" are unclear. It could come from Moneke, the name of the son of Martin the Ape in a medieval animal story. It appears also to be related to manikin, from the Dutch manneken ("little man").^b
2. Monkeys make up two of the three groups of simian primates, Old World monkeys and New World monkeys. The other group is the apes.^c
3. A monkey is any primate that is not a human, prosimian, or ape.^g
   
   Monkeys have tails, but apes do not
   
4. Monkeys are most easily distinguished from apes by their tails. Apes have no tails.^e
5. Apes and spider monkeys swing arm-to-arm in trees, but most monkeys don’t. Instead, they run across branches.^a
6. Monkeys use vocalizations, facial expressions, and body movements to communicate.^e
7. Grinning or pulling the lip is a sign of aggression in monkeys, along with yawning, head bobbing, and jerking the head and shoulders forward.^f
8. Monkeys express affection and make peace with others by grooming each other.^e
9. A group of monkeys is called a "troop."^e
10. Monkeys live in trees, grasslands, mountains, forests, and on high plains.^f
11. Monkeys are seriously threatened by habitat loss--especially those that live in tropical forests, a habitat that is quickly disappearing.^f
    
    The smallest and largest monkeys, a Pygmy Marmoset (left) and male Mandrill (right)
    
12. The Pygmy Marmoset is the world's smallest monkey. It measures 117-159 millimeters (four and a half to six inches) in length and weighs 85 to 140 grams (three to five ounces).^c
13. The male Mandrill is the largest monkey. It is almost 1 meter (3.3 feet) long and weighs about 35 kilograms (77 pounds).^e
14. It is common for monkeys to carry tuberculosis, hepatitis, and simian herpes B.^a
15. Most monkeys eat both animals and plants.^a Some also eat dirt.^d
16. Monkeys peel their bananas and do not eat the skins.^a
17. Monkeys can grasp with both their fingers and their toes.^a
18. Most Old World monkeys have small, curved nostrils set close together. Most New World monkeys have round nostrils set far apart on flat noses.^f
19. Ten New World monkey species have been classified as nocturnal. All known Old World monkeys are diurnal.^e
20. Some Old World monkeys, such as Drills, have sitting pads on their rumps, but New World monkeys do not.^f
21. Old World monkeys have 32 teeth. New World monkeys have 36.^d
22. There are 96 species of Old World monkeys.^c
23. Old World monkeys are divided into two subfamilies, generalists and specialists. Generalists eat almost anything, and specialists eat mainly leaves.^e
24. Old World monkeys often have large cheek pouches that enable them to feed rapidly and store their food, then chew and swallow it later.^c
25. As of 2008, there are 81 species of New World monkeys in the Amazon basin, and new ones are continually being discovered.^e
26. Many New World monkeys have prehensile tails, a feature not shared by any of their Old World cousins. Prehensile tails are used for grasping objects, swinging, and steadying the monkey by grasping limbs and branches when the hands and feet are being used in progression.^d
27. Many New World Monkeys, including the spider monkey, do not have thumbs. Capuchins and squirrel monkeys are the only New World monkeys with pseudo-opposable thumbs.^e
28. Proboscis monkeys are best known for the long noses of males, which grow larger as the monkeys age. Females have smaller, pointed noses. This distinctive feature might help to resonate the male's loud vocalizations.^g
29. As the name indicates, silvered leaf monkeys are silver to dark gray in color. Infants, however, are bright orange.^g
    
    Squirrel monkeys have at least twenty vocalizations
    
30. Twenty different vocalizations have been noted in squirrel monkeys.^e
31. Male squirrel monkeys sometimes assert dominance by urinating on subordinates.^e
32. Adult male guenon monkeys will sometimes rush after an eagle that has caught a family member, sometimes intimidating the bird enough that it lets go of its prey.^e
33. When a troop of guenon monkeys gets a new leader, the new alpha-male will sometimes kill all babies who are still being suckled—an evolutionary behavior known as kin selection, where the male protects his own offspring by killing the offspring of other males.^e
34. The Barbary Macaque is the only free-living species of monkey in Europe, which was once home to many monkeys.^e
35. The Olive Colobus monkey and certain Red Colobus species are hunted for food by humans and chimpanzees.^e
36. Howler monkeys are the loudest monkeys. Their howls can be heard for about two miles in the forest and almost three miles in an open area.^e
37. Howler monkeys spend up to 80% of their time resting.^e
38. South American Titi monkeys are rare among primates because they are monogamous. They mate for life and become distressed when separated. They show affection by remaining close, grooming each other, intertwining their tails, holding hands, nuzzling, cuddling, and lip smacking.^e
39. Capuchins are skilled tool users. They smash nuts with rocks, insert branches into crevices to capture food, remove spines and hairs from caterpillars by rubbing them against a branch, protect their hands with leaves, and use large branches to club snakes.^e
40. Capuchin monkeys use different vocal sounds to identify different types of predators. They have also been seen banging stones together to warn each other of approaching predators.^e

-- Posted December 15, 2008

References

^a Bromley, Lynn. Monkeys, Apes and Other Primates. Santa Barbara, CA: Bellerophon Books, 1981.

^b Etymology Online. "Online Etymology Dictionary." Accessed: December 13, 2008.

^c Nowak, Ronald M. 1989. Primates of the World. Baltimore, MD: The Johns Hopkins University Press.

^d Preston-Mafham, Rod and Ken. 1992. Primates of the World. New York, NY: Facts on File, Inc.

^e Redmond, Ian. 2008. The Primate Family Tree. Buffalo, NY: Firefly Books (U.S.) Inc.

^f San Diego Zoo. "Mammals: Monkey." Accessed: December 13, 2008.

^g Sleeper, Barbara. 1997. Primates. San Francisco, CA: Chronicle Books.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Sakari

[keninsc]

Ok, so what you're saying is you have complete and total knowledge of 34 acres and on that you've not experienced any tree knocking? Further, I should post a link to verify what your own good common sense should clearly tell you is true?

It's only true that I haven't educated you because you will not admit that someone else pointed out the flaws in your contention. As I said previously, it isn't my job to educate you. No offense but in order to teach one must be willing to learn, mind you I shouldn't have to teach you anything, your own common sense and all that wood skill should tell you what I'm saying is true.

So, carry on with your thread. I'll just run along.

Taken from your edit:

Capuchins are skilled tool users. They smash nuts with rocks, insert branches into crevices to capture food, remove spines and hairs from caterpillars by rubbing them against a branch, protect their hands with leaves, and use large branches to club snakes.e

Edited April 13, 2012 by keninsc

[Sakari]

Ok, so what you're saying is you have complete and total knowledge of 34 acres and on that you've not experienced any tree knocking?

No what I am saying is you come across very arrogant, and make claims that can not be proven by you........This is not smart, actually just the opposite.

Do you have 2 personalities?....As I said, there are other posts where I could swear it is not the same person communicating.

Anyway, if you want to make claims, back them with facts....Don't pull the " find it yourself "......You may as well say " I really do not know "

Go ahead and get the last word in, I know it is killing you..........I will not respond, unless you have something factual to share about primates tree knocking.

[Imaginarynumber1]

I have been searching for quite sometime to find any reference to any primate that knocks on trees. I, too, had heard tell that primates engaged in tree knocking behavior. I scoured the internet, pulled out old copies of Nat Geo, old text books, old childrens books, but alas, for I could find nothing that would back up the claim that primates engage in tree knocking behavior.

I have been to the zoo and watch many a primate as the run and play. They will throw things, they will slam things, but never to they knock on trees. If, by some happenstance, you were to see a primate beating something against a tree, it seems that it is for no reason at all. It is clearly not for communication, but would rather seem to be out of boredom.

Chimps are known to drum on tree buttress, but this is a loud an vocal affair that is far, far removed from the claimed 'tree knocking' of primates and bigfoot.

It would appear that there are no references in existence concerning primates and tree knocking. The only references I could find to tree knocking were on bigfoot or bigfoot related sights. It would seem that someone presented the idea and others have just run with it, accepting it as fact that primates tree knock, when in fact, they do not.

[S2F]

It would seem that someone presented the idea and others have just run with it, accepting it as fact that primates tree knock, when in fact, they do not.

It does seem that is indeed the case. It also sounds just like something that footers would cling to and espouse as truth without substantiation. On the surface it sounds plausible, all the better to draw in those without the knowledge or wherewithal to dispute it.

[Q-C]

I hesitate to even mention this, as I am no Meldrum fan, and his writing style is so frustratingly confusing as he seems to expertly intertwine a legend and science to easily confuse the gullible.

But he discusses great ape tree slapping, snag breaking, tree drumming behavior in his book Legend Meets Science beginning on page 172, if anyone owns a copy.

In summary:

-Tree striking "compares with similar antics in great apes"

-Some great apes slap trees as an intimidation behavior

-Chimps drum on trees to signal location and keep aural contact

-Orangutans break off snags and push them at intruders

So adopting this behavior for bigfoot and embellishing makes perfect sense to me from a footer’s perspective. I expect no boundaries for footer imaginations.

Meldrum did claim one thing I believe 100% and that is that no one that he is aware of has ever eye-witnessed this tree knocking behavior of bigfoot, only heard it.

Edited April 13, 2012 by QuiteContrary

[msmike1]

You're kidding, right? Seriously? A squirrel? I've heard the owl pops and again I say if you can't tell the difference between a primate tree banging and that then you are gravely mistaken. I'm pretty sure I'm going to wind up blocking Rafterman's posts just because his ego is something I don't want to deal with but Dude, a freaking squirrel?.......banging his nuts on a hollow tree? I need some of whatever you guys smoke when ya'll are get together and posting on here.

Oh, yes, forgive me for being so ignorant of the ways of the wild. I have only spent my entire life in the outdoors and have no idea what I am talking about even though everything that I stated is fact. How dare I try to present a logical explanation for a sound that some say they hear in the woods. Of course it's an 8ft tall ape that has yet to be even remotely documented and no real evidence of any kind exists for. All I did was to present alternatives to an imaginary creature banging things on trees. You and your all encompasing knowledge have obviously shot me down. You sir are the king of tree knocking knowledge and everyone on this board will live a better life if they would just take what you say as fact with no dispute. Oh by the way, you might want to check that ego of yours at the door, conversations/discussions will go much smoother that way. LOL!

Mike

[mitchall]

As a birder in general and a woodpecker enthusiast, I've always held the belief that "tree knocking" was simply woodpeckers doing what they do best.

There is a "distinct" difference between the knocking sounds referred to as made by bigfoot and a woodpecker !!

[Rafterman]

True, and you are the one who hasn't defined the term expert as yet. If you want to hear recordings of primate tree knocking try using Google, however you are the one suggesting that woodpeckers and primate tree knocking can be confused my only misgiving in this was telling you you are mistaken and your ego can't handle it. If Googling is too much for you to do then do some research and head down to a zoo where they have primates and give a listen.

Yes, yes, you know it all and damn anyone who tells you different. You'd do well at the BFRO, only to you everything is a woodpecker.

I'm not disrespecting you either, I simply think you're an idiot with an ego problem. A rather deadly combination. Then when someone calls you on it you simply become indignant and then demand I prove you're wrong. On a subject of speculation for which you know already that there is no proof. Get over your ego and try and learn something.

For someone who joined this forum less than a week ago, you seem to be doing a great job making friends. I guess what they say about those who stoop to personal attacks is true.

My point that you so obviously missed is that folks who confuse the normal sounds of woodland creatures with primate tree knocking more than likely have no real experience identifying primate tree knocks in the first place. So for you to claim that it is impossible to confuse the two, you need to then show us that you are knowledgeable in identifying primate tree knocks. I simply asked you to share your expertise with us.

But please, continue with the insults.

[Rafterman]

There is a "distinct" difference between the knocking sounds referred to as made by bigfoot and a woodpecker !!

Can you share those distinctions with us please?

[Stardrive]

Woodpeckers are not nocturnal. The woodpecker theory is only good for the daytime.

Are woodpeckers nocturnal?

Answer: [/url] Woodpeckers are not nocturnal, they usually eat in the morning and early evening.

Source

[Sakari]

Woodpeckers are not nocturnal. The woodpecker theory is only good for the daytime.

Are woodpeckers nocturnal?

Answer: Woodpeckers are not nocturnal, they usually eat in the morning and early evening.

Source

That is fine.....( edited to add bottom information, it is not fine )

The entire reason I posted this topic was to show that IF someone REALLY heard a sound like tree knocking, there are answers for it......And they are not a Bigfoot.

Thanks to the new guy here, we now also know that the story of " it is Primate behavior to tree knock " is a bunch of total B.S. made up by bigfoot fanatics.

So, we now know about other animals that do it, and we also know what animals do not.

Who knows, maybe a Woodpecker being disturbed at night while roosting does knock.Just because they are not active at night does not mean they would not still warn others they live there.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Sakari