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sean6

Do Intelligent Dinosaurs Really Rule

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Posted (edited)

Do Intelligent Dinosaurs Really Rule Alien Worlds?

It sounds like the ultimate science fiction storyline: what if the dinosaurs weren't wiped-out by an asteroid impact 65 million years ago? Perhaps they'd still be alive today, in an advanced evolutionary state, developing their space program and their own asteroid impact mitigation strategies. Sadly for us, this would have probably meant that mammals wouldn't have gotten a foothold and the fledgling human race would have become glorified dino-chum.

http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef016764f2b2fe970b-pi

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/04/dinosaurs-from-space/

i fine this Interesting and POSSIBLE, maybe not here on earth but elsewhere in the universe ? who says Aliens have to look like us.

Edited by sean6

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Are you suggesting that multiple species of dinosaurs left Earth? I think it would be more plausible to say, maybe one. Although, since we know they were nowhere near that level of intelligence, the answer is no. Boring I know!

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Why could dinosaurs not have evolved into and intelligent species if they had not been wiped-out? After the dinosaur era ended, I think it would be impossible to predict human beings would have evolved from the mammals that survived the meteor impact.

I think it would be equally impossible to predict what species, if any, would have evolved intelligence had that catastrophic event not have happened.

post-50472-0-13034400-1334199885_thumb.j

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Why could dinosaurs not have evolved into and intelligent species if they had not been wiped-out? After the dinosaur era ended, I think it would be impossible to predict human beings would have evolved from the mammals that survived the meteor impact.

I think it would be equally impossible to predict what species, if any, would have evolved intelligence had that catastrophic event not have happened.

post-50472-0-13034400-1334199885_thumb.j

I can agree with that logic. I don't think it is impossible for them to evolve this way. Only that they didn't. If they did, we have yet to see any evidence. It is rather strange how fast humans evolved.

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Why could dinosaurs not have evolved into and intelligent species if they had not been wiped-out? After the dinosaur era ended, I think it would be impossible to predict human beings would have evolved from the mammals that survived the meteor impact.

I think it would be equally impossible to predict what species, if any, would have evolved intelligence had that catastrophic event not have happened.

post-50472-0-13034400-1334199885_thumb.j

:D Dale Russell's Dinosauroid!

Very few scientists agree with this extrapolation, if any. Naish I believe put up quite a decent debate opposing Russell's conception, he argued that a large-brained, highly intelligent troodontid would retain a more standard theropod body plan, with a horizontal posture and long tail, and would probably manipulate objects with the snout and feet in the manner of a bird, rather than with human-like “hands”

Ronald Breslow is just blowing hot air I think. There might be a billion planets with intelligent Dinosaurs, there might be none. Not a one ever got that far so was have no way of making comparisons. The Dinosaurs were in the throes of dying out when the meteor hit. It is not even certain that the meteor changed all that much after all.

Massive volcanoes, meteorite impacts delivered one-two death punch to dinosaurs

Princeton-led researchers found that a trail of dead plankton spanning half a million years provides a timeline that links the mass extinction to large-scale eruptions of the Deccan Traps, a primeval volcanic range in western India that was once three times larger than France. A second Princeton-based group uncovered traces of a meteorite close to the Deccan Traps that may have been one of a series to strike the Earth around the time of the mass extinction, possibly wiping out the few species that remained after thousands of years of volcanic activity.

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I can agree with that logic. I don't think it is impossible for them to evolve this way. Only that they didn't. If they did, we have yet to see any evidence. It is rather strange how fast humans evolved.

??

The Toumai example is 6-7 million years old?

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it's probably slightly off topic, but given an infinitive number of parallel universes, that actually HAPPENED. Also,there is one parallel world where i'm just riding a dinosaur...cool...

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it's probably slightly off topic, but given an infinitive number of parallel universes, that actually HAPPENED. Also,there is one parallel world where i'm just riding a dinosaur...cool...

Where are these parallel Universes, and how do you know they actually happened? To the best of my knowledge, paralel universes have not been proven to exist?

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it's probably slightly off topic, but given an infinitive number of parallel universes, that actually HAPPENED. Also,there is one parallel world where i'm just riding a dinosaur...cool...

And one you're being mauled by a dinosaur, but how do you know they happened? Parallel universes are theoretical.

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Where are these parallel Universes, and how do you know they actually happened? To the best of my knowledge, paralel universes have not been proven to exist?

i didn't claim they're actually there, i was just being hypothetically...trying to throw in a scenario where the whole post at least kind of makes sense! ;)

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quick question, the dinosaurs had the physical presence to dominate a land full of food, why would they have needed intelligence?

Did we not evolve intelligence to enable us to be the dominant species?

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And one you're being mauled by a dinosaur, but how do you know they happened? Parallel universes are theoretical.

i know, i know....but so are most of the discussions/theories here, too. Here, it was 5 in the morning when i posted that, you cannot expect me to be elaborate at that time!! ;)

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There is something you seem to have overlooked. Dinosaurs were around for approximately 135 million years & never became intelligent.

We as 'intelligent' homo sapiens have been around for approximately 250 thousand years. Dinosaurs hardly jumped off the starting blocks to become intelligent did they? In fact it seems they didn't hear the starting gun.

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Do Intelligent Dinosaurs Really Rule Alien Worlds?

It sounds like the ultimate science fiction storyline: what if the dinosaurs weren't wiped-out by an asteroid impact 65 million years ago? Perhaps they'd still be alive today, in an advanced evolutionary state, developing their space program and their own asteroid impact mitigation strategies. Sadly for us, this would have probably meant that mammals wouldn't have gotten a foothold and the fledgling human race would have become glorified dino-chum.

http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef016764f2b2fe970b-pi

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/04/dinosaurs-from-space/

i fine this Interesting and POSSIBLE, maybe not here on earth but elsewhere in the universe ? who says Aliens have to look like us.

It's possible but purely speculative. The earth and it's place in the galaxy were quite different 65 plus million years ago. The stellar neighborhood shifts in that time frame as the solar system moves around the center of the galaxy. It's possible that they may have moved and settled other planets with the help of others.

I happen to have written a novel on just this topic and I've supported the storyline with references from current scientific publications. if you are interested look for "Nodal Convergence" on Amazon or at the web site for the novel:

http://gravidynamics.net/Books.htm

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There is something you seem to have overlooked. Dinosaurs were around for approximately 135 million years & never became intelligent.

We as 'intelligent' homo sapiens have been around for approximately 250 thousand years. Dinosaurs hardly jumped off the starting blocks to become intelligent did they? In fact it seems they didn't hear the starting gun.

Actually recent papers on the topic of intelligence are moving away from the dumb, slow moving reptile image. Pack hunting evidence abounds for even the massiv Albertasaurus and T-Rex. Pack hunting requires intelligence and communications.

(Roach, Brian T.; & Brinkman, Daniel T. (2007). "A reevaluation of cooperative pack hunting and gregariousness in Deinonychus antirrhopus and other nonavian theropod dinosaurs". Bulletin of the Peabody Museum of Natural History 48 (1): 103–138. doi:10.3374/0079-032X(2007)48[103:AROCPH]2.0.CO;2)

Past theories of intelligence were based upon brain-volume ratios. A method that has largely been criticized as a result of african grey parrot intelligence research.

(I.M.Pepperberg, “Studies to determine the intelligence of african gray parrots”, Proceedings of the International Aviculturists Society, July 11-15, 1995.)

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Actually recent papers on the topic of intelligence are moving away from the dumb, slow moving reptile image. Pack hunting evidence abounds for even the massiv Albertasaurus and T-Rex. Pack hunting requires intelligence and communications.

(Roach, Brian T.; & Brinkman, Daniel T. (2007). "A reevaluation of cooperative pack hunting and gregariousness in Deinonychus antirrhopus and other nonavian theropod dinosaurs". Bulletin of the Peabody Museum of Natural History 48 (1): 103–138. doi:10.3374/0079-032X(2007)48[103:AROCPH]2.0.CO;2)

Past theories of intelligence were based upon brain-volume ratios. A method that has largely been criticized as a result of african grey parrot intelligence research.

(I.M.Pepperberg, “Studies to determine the intelligence of african gray parrots”, Proceedings of the International Aviculturists Society, July 11-15, 1995.)

Welcome to UM Terry.

Has any research indicated that a species developed intelligence superior to that of an emu or opossum? It would be interesting to have a closer look at the development of the dinosaur brain and compare it with the mammalian evolution I would think.

Indeed, intelligence cannot be indicated by brain ratio volumes as Peters' Elephant-Nose fish has a brain proportionally larger than ours, however largely dedicated to sensory organs.

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)

Actually recent papers on the topic of intelligence are moving away from the dumb, slow moving reptile image. Pack hunting evidence abounds for even the massiv Albertasaurus and T-Rex. Pack hunting requires intelligence and communications.

(Roach, Brian T.; & Brinkman, Daniel T. (2007). "A reevaluation of cooperative pack hunting and gregariousness in Deinonychus antirrhopus and other nonavian theropod dinosaurs". Bulletin of the Peabody Museum of Natural History 48 (1): 103–138. doi:10.3374/0079-032X(2007)48[103:AROCPH]2.0.CO;2)

Past theories of intelligence were based upon brain-volume ratios. A method that has largely been criticized as a result of african grey parrot intelligence research.

(I.M.Pepperberg, “Studies to determine the intelligence of african gray parrots”, Proceedings of the International Aviculturists Society, July 11-15, 1995.)

Yes, lots of animals hunt in packs. it depends on what your definition of 'intelligence' is. The original post is talking about dinosaurs developing intelligence akin to humans. As i stated, something that dinosaurs failed to do in 135 million years as opposed to humans in 250 thousand years. My point still stands.

Dolphins are intelligent, dogs are intelligent crows are intelligent...all relative, as far as i know none of them can solve simple algebraic equations or read a book.

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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Posted (edited)

There is something you seem to have overlooked. Dinosaurs were around for approximately 135 million years & never became intelligent.

We as 'intelligent' homo sapiens have been around for approximately 250 thousand years. Dinosaurs hardly jumped off the starting blocks to become intelligent did they? In fact it seems they didn't hear the starting gun.

That's not a fair comparison. You're comparing thousands of species grouped into one classification called "dinosaurs" that didn't evolve advanced intelligence with a single species that was already pretty smart 250,000 years ago. We didn't evolve our intelligence in 250,000 years as that implies we have gone from dumb to smart in that time. It took millions of years to get to where we are now.

A better comparison would be that mammals have been around for 200 million years and it took them that long for one species to evolve the intelligence for advanced technological civilisation.

Edited by Archimedes

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The dinosaurs already rule the world from underground. They faked the whole 'death' thing.

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And this -

Imagine an alien world ruled by "advanced dinosaurs" as smart as humans—maybe even smarter

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/advanced-dinosaurs-alien-chemistry_n_1421414.html

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Given some snakes we've had in office over the past decade, I'm inclined to say yes, but I'm going with No..

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c7fqDpBvV_4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITlY50eIp_0&feature=player_embedded

You know, i kind of find weird when you think about it(to stay in a similar subject) that people like Stanton Friedmen & Michio Kaku were earlier this year in the same conference/lecture. Your Toughts?

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