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everwonder

Is this true for christians?

86 posts in this topic

I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

fullywired

I would have to disagree with part of your statement. You said, "We are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it," yet the list refers to Fundamentalist Christians. "Fundamentalist" is a selected edition.

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I would have to disagree with part of your statement. You said, "We are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it," yet the list refers to Fundamentalist Christians. "Fundamentalist" is a selected edition.

Not necessarily so ,as earlier posts said "fundamentalists believe in the inerrancy of scripture and literal acceptance of the creed ".it is the later editions made by cherry pickers that spawned all the different versions

fullywired

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Not necessarily so ,as earlier posts said "fundamentalists believe in the inerrancy of scripture and literal acceptance of the creed ".it is the later editions made by cherry pickers that spawned all the different versions

fullywired

I do not understand what you are communicating with this statement, particularly in context with your previous statement. Are you implying that Fundamentalists are the only true Christians? Believing in the inerrancy of Scripture is not the sole qualification of being of Fundamentalist, nor is it limited to those who are Fundamentalist. Are you saying that the later editions are not really Christians?

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I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

fullywired

I am not normally a suspicious bloke, but reading the Op it seemed to me to be constructed like a piece of writing where one reasonable and given truth is used to "prove" other unreasonable and untrue statements. Hence, while it is probable that christians hold some of the basic and less controversial tenets, I would think that very few transfer those beliefs to the more obnoxious beliefs or tenets described in the OP. Then again I am not a "believer" in any of the things outlined in the Op. I am judging by the many believers I know personally

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No thoughts here.. Just rules ignored.

Please always respect the beliefs of other members - the bashing of specific religions, countries, races or belief systems is strictly disallowed. Several of the topics in this section cover some sensitive areas and it is important to respect the views of others; this means no flaming, no flamebaiting, no trolling and no personal attacks. We must also ask that members do not use the forums to promote or 'preach' their personal spiritual beliefs to others.

No rules have been broken here. Beliefs have been respected. There is a difference between respect and disagreement.

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Posted (edited)

I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

fullywired

You think 4 is a minimum to constitute being Christian? Ok, I guess I am going to have to explain my 2-2.5/10 answer. Tell me where you think I need an extra 1.5 points (minimum) to qualify as "Christian"?

10 -You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. - I do deny the existence of other gods, but I do not feel outraged when someone denies the existence of mine. 0 points.

9 -You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. - I am a Theistic Evolutionist and therefore have no problem with the scientific explanation of life, and that evolution (if that is how we came to be) is a process that was guided by God. 0 points.

8 -You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. - I do not laugh at polytheists, but I do believe in one God who is comprised of a triune element. 1/2 point.

7 -Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! - I often defend the Qu'ran under the same "out of context" view as people use against the Bible. But I do defend the "atrocities" (including the evil done against trees, lol) in the Bible as necessary actions. 1/2 point.

6 -You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. - I do not laugh at Hindu or Greek claims about their gods. But I do believe that Jesus is fully 100% God. 1/2 point.

5 -You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. - I have no problem believing the age of the earth to be billions of years. 0 points.

4 -You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs --though excluding those in all rival sects -will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." - I do not believe that non-Christians will suffer for eternity, but I do believe there are eternal consequences for not believing. For the sake of argument I give a full 1 point for this, because I do believe in consequences for rejecting Jesus.

3 -While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. - I'm not a Pentacostal/Charismatic, I don't put stock in Tongues and rolling on the floor. 0 points.

2 -You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. - I believe God answers 100% of prayers. He may not always answer them in the way we want him to, but he answers all. 0 points.

1 -You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -but still call yourself a Christian. - I don't want to sound like I'm boasting, but I think I have a fairly good grasp of the Bible, Christianity, and church history. And I still call myself a Christian. 0 points.

Total - 2.5/10

Where in this list do you feel I should be more "Christian" in my belief?

~ PA

Edited by Paranoid Android

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Where in this list do you feel I should be more "Christian" in my belief?

I'd give you a full point for No.2. That still leaves you half point short!

I think you're denying yourself scores due to the confrontational nature of the OP. You sound like a Christian to me - just not one of the really mad ones. :w00t:

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Posted (edited)

I'd give you a full point for No.2. That still leaves you half point short!

I think you're denying yourself scores due to the confrontational nature of the OP. You sound like a Christian to me - just not one of the really mad ones. :w00t:

Think of it this way, if one of the statements read "you believe in a triune God", I'd say yes, 1 full point. But it didn't read that. It read "You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God"! But I don't laugh at polytheists, so how can I give a full point to that question? Going by the questions asked, I can only in good conscience give myself 2.5/10. I do not rile against Allah, or laugh at polytheists, or believe the earth only thousands of years old, I'm not Pentacostal....

Edited by Paranoid Android

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PA

Evil Bible is rarely remarkable for its restraint. In this case, however, its claim is fairly straightforward. A distinctive kind of Christian exists who accepts all ten items, and those who do are probably fairly called "fundamentalist."

To pervert the claim in an attempt to make the list definitional of all Chrisitians is no doubt a gratifying fantasy for bashers, but it is simply untenable. It is also bigotted stereotyping, but bigotry is tolerated and protected when Christians are targeted.

One of the issues (number 1) is independent of any specific faith: how much someone knows about their own faith and its history compared with selected non-members. There is some irony that the author apparently lost track of which Egyptian babies died in Exodus (see item 7), but yes of course. Some non-Muslims know more about Islam than some Muslims. It's not even peculiar to religion: you see the same thing in political ideology, economic systems, etc.

Overestimation of personal relevant knowledge may be diagnostic of fundamentalism, but if so, then it is likely a feature of every variety of extremism, not just religious.

Three of the questions (3, 5 and 9) concern opinions about secular subjects, and five more (4, 6, 7, 8 and 10) concern beliefs about, reactions to, and relations with other religions. I think these questions are fair for discerning fundamentalists from others, but have no relationship at all to the religious opinions of other Christians.

Like other modern people, mainstreamers seem unremarkable in distinguishing the concerns of science from the concerns of spirit. Like other civilized people, many Christians treat other people's conceptions of the sacred with reverence and respect.

The remaining question concerns prayer for temporal effect. I am unsure where the "one percent of one percent" figure comes from. If there actually were such a showing, then I for one would be very interested. If there is no God, then the expected figure is identically zero. However, believing in a god who answers some prayers is not peculiar to Christianity, and many Christians turn to prayer for other reasons entirely.

The bottom line is that many Christians get the same score as many Jews, many Muslims, many Ba'hai, ..., and a heathen like me: zip for ten. And that is perfectly consistent with the actual claim made in the OP, that a distinctive kind of Christian exists with all of the listed attributes.

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Posted (edited)

PA

Evil Bible is rarely remarkable for its restraint. In this case, however, its claim is fairly straightforward. A distinctive kind of Christian exists who accepts all ten items, and those who do are probably fairly called "fundamentalist."

The bottom line is that many Christians get the same score as many Jews, many Muslims, many Ba'hai, ..., and a heathen like me: zip for ten. And that is perfectly consistent with the actual claim made in the OP, that a distinctive kind of Christian exists with all of the listed attributes.

I know it's about fundamentalists, I mentioned that in my first post in this thread. I was addressing fullywired, who suggested that if this is a stereotype then mark ourselves against the criteria (presumably thinking that it would be closer to the truth than we may think). So I did, and came up with 2.5/10. Fullywired then suggested a minimum of 4 is required to consider oneself a "Christian". I guess I'm trying to point out to him how his reasoning is flawed, I don't actually think this list should be indicative of Christianity. Edited by Paranoid Android

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I didn't think you did, PA. I believe my critique is in many ways distinct from yours.

You seem to have the "four or fewer" aspect of fullywired's concerns covered. I emphasized a quantitatively diferent question, whether a score of zero is compatible with devout Chrisitan faith. For the reasons stated, I find zero out of ten to be fully compatible with Christian faith, contrary to another claim of fullywired's.

Other views are possible, and any actual Christian's personal score may be anything at all in the range available. Also, I have paid a debt of fundamental fairness. I have criticized "Evil Bible" in the past, so it is only fair for me to acknowledge that for the purpose they claimed, and despite the obviously argumentative character of some of their questions, some Chrisitans just might get a ten, and those who do might fairly be called fundamentalist.

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Posted (edited)

Fair enough, 8bits. I think we are not quite so different in our answers as you may think. I agree that any Christian might have any score and a perfect 10 person could rightly be called a Fundamentalist. I guess I was taking it personal because the implication of FW's post is that if I don't reach a minimum then I'm not a real Christian. I will disagree with you in one area - I doubt any true Christian would score an absolute zero on the questions presented, unless it is taken as a true/false statement, in which case the statement is either 100% accurate and gain 1 point, or it is a 0 point. If I was taking that scale, then I would score a 0/10 also (even the question I gave myself a full point for was not 100% accurate in that I don't believe in eternal suffering, but I do believe in eternal consequences). But if we take some statements as half-right or partly correct then we have to score it at least half a point.

Edited by Paranoid Android

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There is something very schoolteacherly in your sweating the grading on a quiz :).

My score of zero does indeed reflect that each item is propositional, and so each is answered yes or no.

Besides, if I'm giving any credit for believing in a Triune God, capital-T and capital- G, which I believe is your obligatory half-point, and the purpose of the quiz is to detect Christians as fullywired proposes, then the appropriate credit is ten points. Believing in a Triune God, capitalized, simply restates the Nicene and Apostle's Creed.

We would therefore have our answer, and could skip the other nine questions, along with the remainder of that numbered question as well.

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You think 4 is a minimum to constitute being Christian? Ok, I guess I am going to have to explain my 2-2.5/10 answer. Tell me where you think I need an extra 1.5 points (minimum) to qualify as "Christian"?

10 -You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. - I do deny the existence of other gods, but I do not feel outraged when someone denies the existence of mine. 0 points.

9 -You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. - I am a Theistic Evolutionist and therefore have no problem with the scientific explanation of life, and that evolution (if that is how we came to be) is a process that was guided by God. 0 points.

8 -You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. - I do not laugh at polytheists, but I do believe in one God who is comprised of a triune element. 1/2 point.

7 -Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! - I often defend the Qu'ran under the same "out of context" view as people use against the Bible. But I do defend the "atrocities" (including the evil done against trees, lol) in the Bible as necessary actions. 1/2 point.

6 -You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. - I do not laugh at Hindu or Greek claims about their gods. But I do believe that Jesus is fully 100% God. 1/2 point.

5 -You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. - I have no problem believing the age of the earth to be billions of years. 0 points.

4 -You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs --though excluding those in all rival sects -will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." - I do not believe that non-Christians will suffer for eternity, but I do believe there are eternal consequences for not believing. For the sake of argument I give a full 1 point for this, because I do believe in consequences for rejecting Jesus.

3 -While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. - I'm not a Pentacostal/Charismatic, I don't put stock in Tongues and rolling on the floor. 0 points.

2 -You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. - I believe God answers 100% of prayers. He may not always answer them in the way we want him to, but he answers all. 0 points.

1 -You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -but still call yourself a Christian. - I don't want to sound like I'm boasting, but I think I have a fairly good grasp of the Bible, Christianity, and church history. And I still call myself a Christian. 0 points.

Total - 2.5/10

Where in this list do you feel I should be more "Christian" in my belief?

~ PA

For a start I feel you have been a little economical with your scoring

number two answer was a cop out,.if prayers are answered 100% then you get what you asked for ,not an edited version of it..Had the post been couched in a more gentle and a less confrontational way .scores would have been greater

fullywired

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Posted (edited)

What's ur thought on these or is it totaly wrong?

Well lets see...

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Very True they will deny the existence of other Gods.. Their bible tells them there is only one..

..Only some will feel outraged when someone the existence of theirs..I have seen this...

Others will just argue theirs is valid and debate it as much as possible...

Some wont care to argue, they are fully confident and wont feel their faith is a weapon

Some will feel insulted if you show any skeptic remarks that will call their faith a myth..And chant the usual - This is stereotyping, this is an attack...Or the famous - You just hate us because we are Christian... So it is a mix of all sorts ..

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

Ha ha YES...So many have done and shown it on here many times over

Some wont care to.

Some accept evolution and may believe God assisted it ...So it is a mixture

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

Some will I have to agree and those that do, fail to see the irony of the trinity worship...

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

I am afraid this is very true for many I have read on here and heard in real life... So many will do this and wont care to look at their own God and what is written... They would rather try and side step it, excuse it and find ways to make it look as if it was needed to be carried out and the ole - Well that's how it all was in those times.. But still many of these people will slam Muslims for the same for of thing... Irony escapes most of these people

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

This is true for so many Christians... Irony of it will not sink in..But I said SO MANY.. and that does not mean all...

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

Unfortunately we know for a fact so many will do this and are guilty of the lot.. I know not all do....it takes intelligence to understand these things.. So those that don't are not intelligent

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

I have to agree with this... The majority of Christians I have ever met in my life, will all believe in this... I have only ever met one or maybe two that don't....

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

Very true for a lot of Christians I have known and seen on line.. But this only applies to those that have no interest in science, cannot comprehend it and would rather stick with wacky claims of speaking in tongue and think this is better proof... EVEN go as far as to think that reading or hearing about an NDE is proof of Christianity... Sad but very true

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

Many are like this .... I have a mother in law who never cared to set foot near a church, once laughed at the idea of tuning born again.... She got a cancer scare nearly two years ago.. She didn't need chemo, it was not cancer in full.. She was treated.. and her fundei sister convinced her God saved her for a reason ..So now she is born again claiming God answered her prayers and chose to save her.. This is full proof..... These two women think they can push my daughter into church and church activities

This annoys me, the sheer ignorance of it all.. She had a loving brother in law ( Gerald ) who served the church and Jesus all his life... He worked for the church ( mostly technical support and fund raiser ) ..helped the community...was very much dedicated to the Christian church. ( Gerald played in the Church choir every Sunday and conducted it for many years) ..He died 3 years ago of brain cancer that spread..... Prayers were said for a long time to save him and nothing happened... Yet she feels she is more of a priority.... Too many like her and it is very sickening and at the same time ....SAD

Moral of the story - If you never cared to set foot near a Christian Church... If you even claimed you were like some atheist.. But get a scare, something happens, you get lucky.......Then you are more likely to be like my mother in law and think you are above the rest who actually dedicated themselves to the same Church and faith all their lives without having to face any scare to make them do it...They did it all out of respect and love.You never did before hand...Your ignorance and arrogances is invisible to you...And you do need pitied

FACT IS - God does NOT answer 100 % of all prayers... Not all are answered.. Making up excuses to say he answers them in mysterious ways.. is cobblers...Especially if the prayers are asking to save someone's life and so on they die and suffer as a result..What is so mysterious about that? ..He didn't answer Gerald's prayers or his Christian fmaily's Many like Gerald... So it is a load of cobblers to claim he answers 100 % ...

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian

Absolutely true for a number of Christians I have met...( again not meaning all ) The sec I mention something from their bible.. they give me a strange look and say - I didn't know that? OR No WAY this cannot be right...I must look this up..... Some get angered by it and claim I am making it up lol.....But see I never have needed to .. it was all there...

I feel another one should have made the list...Calling it no 11

11 - If you see someone who is Non Christian question your faith and point out facts that can't be denied... Get angry, and claim they are only attacking the faith in badness.. Only do this IF you cannot answer their\questions.... Sit in constant denial of facts from the past... Claim it is all just some ambush...And convince yourself that's exactly what it is ....Not care if it all makes you look like a sap...Ignore the fact that these thing can easily be discussed without your outburst ....

The amount of times I have seen so many actively do this and then some lol Getting angered over their faith being under question.. all because they cannot answer.. they claim it is under fire and create a tantrum...I shake my head at it all...I think people that do this are just dense !!..

. Thank goodness not all will do this.. I admire those that can handle questions about their faith and even peg them as misunderstandings.. I can tolerate this no problem..But the crying I cannot stand.. All this - You are stereotyping, attacking, ambush, under fire... How dare you do this..typical attacks.. <-- Trashy idiot responses in my opinion..

So to the OP ...I do not think your thread is in any way offensive or wrong... It is only true for so many Christians.. It is not true for all.. So I see no harm in the OP...happy.gif

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I do not understand what you are communicating with this statement, particularly in context with your previous statement. Are you implying that Fundamentalists are the only true Christians? Believing in the inerrancy of Scripture is not the sole qualification of being of Fundamentalist, nor is it limited to those who are Fundamentalist. Are you saying that the later editions are not really Christians?

What I am saying is and I repeat, there is a modicum of truth in the points ,.I am saying ,if you edit out the inflammatory wording your still left with what Christians believe in .i have pointed out in previous posts that there are over 3000 so called Christian versions of Christianity. Are you saying they are all correct, In my opinion 2999 must be wrong unless Jesus meant it to be multiple choice

fullywired

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What I am saying is and I repeat, there is a modicum of truth in the points ,.I am saying ,if you edit out the inflammatory wording your still left with what Christians believe in .i have pointed out in previous posts that there are over 3000 so called Christian versions of Christianity. Are you saying they are all correct, In my opinion 2999 must be wrong unless Jesus meant it to be multiple choice

fullywired

I would agree that I have met some Christians who can meet the qualifications for all ten points, both with and without the inflammatory embellishments. However, there are also Christians who do not fit all ten points.

Yes, there are many various beliefs and varieties of doctrine. However, some of these beliefs do not form the basis for being a Christian in the first place.

There are really only two or three core beliefs that are required to be tagged as a Christian. Otherwise, many of the other beliefs - such as the speaking in tongues/rolling on the floor - are matters of personal interpretation and preference.

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Posted (edited)

I would agree that I have met some Christians who can meet the qualifications for all ten points, both with and without the inflammatory embellishments. However, there are also Christians who do not fit all ten points.

Yes we know.. That is why it is written to show this... If you read through them and you can tell you do not fit the points raised.. then you know you do not make the list.... That is the general idea... I gathered this from reading it myself... It says - You can tell you are a fundamentalist IF___________ <-- that means only some are and some aren't

The real fundies who read it or may read it.. will not be willing to answer any of it, instead may rant.. Because it hits home... But that is only SOME

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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There is something very schoolteacherly in your sweating the grading on a quiz :).

Hmm, should I be offended by that statement :P Ok, probably not, but I guess the point stands that I was "grading" this because it was being graded by others and it was suggested that a 4-out-of-10 was a minimum requirement for someone who called themselves "Christian" :D

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For a start I feel you have been a little economical with your scoring

number two answer was a cop out,.if prayers are answered 100% then you get what you asked for ,not an edited version of it..Had the post been couched in a more gentle and a less confrontational way .scores would have been greater

fullywired

The question stated that I see 0.01% as an impressive success rate. But I see 100% success rate. How can I therefore agree with the question, just because the question wants me to see prayers as answered ONLY via miraculous intervention. But for the sake of argument I'll accede point number 2, where in the rest of the questions is the minimum standard for a Christian? 4-out-of-10 is what you said, even taking 1 full point for that question we are only at 3.5/10.....

Sorry, FW, I understand what you're trying to say, but I cannot agree. If the article was much less confrontational I would probably agree with more. But its confrontational nature is exactly what brought scores down to begin with. To use my earlier example, if the question said "You believe in a triune God", I'd 100% agree and give a full point. But that wasn't the question asked. The question asked was "you laugh at polytheists".... but still believe in a triune God. At best I can only give a half point. Blame the article, not my response :tu:

~ PA

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The question stated that I see 0.01% as an impressive success rate. But I see 100% success rate. How can I therefore agree with the question, just because the question wants me to see prayers as answered ONLY via miraculous intervention. But for the sake of argument I'll accede point number 2, where in the rest of the questions is the minimum standard for a Christian? 4-out-of-10 is what you said, even taking 1 full point for that question we are only at 3.5/10.....

Sorry, FW, I understand what you're trying to say, but I cannot agree. If the article was much less confrontational I would probably agree with more. But its confrontational nature is exactly what brought scores down to begin with. To use my earlier example, if the question said "You believe in a triune God", I'd 100% agree and give a full point. But that wasn't the question asked. The question asked was "you laugh at polytheists".... but still believe in a triune God. At best I can only give a half point. Blame the article, not my response :tu:

~ PA

I think you earned another half point for No10,you said you agreed that you deny the existence of other gods ,ignore the outrage bit,That lets you qualify as a Christian (but only just) as I said ,strip away the excessive remarks and your left with what Christians believe in

fullywired

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I think you earned another half point for No10,you said you agreed that you deny the existence of other gods ,ignore the outrage bit,That lets you qualify as a Christian (but only just) as I said ,strip away the excessive remarks and your left with what Christians believe in

fullywired

Does this mean that you think all christians must be exclusivist christians to qualify as christian? Ie they see christianity as the only true spiritual path?

I have chosen christianity as a way to live my life and a formal way of recognising my interconnection with god, but I know other humans do the same thing just as effectively using difernt paths. Christianity is a viable, effective, and workable, way for a person to live a spiritual /religious life and to connect to god, but it is not the only such pathway. Relatively few christians, in my experience and reading, believe that (even theoretically) only christians will be in heaven after the ressurection. The latter is a very exclusivist and limiting thelogical position.

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Does this mean that you think all christians must be exclusivist christians to qualify as christian? Ie they see christianity as the only true spiritual path?

I have chosen christianity as a way to live my life and a formal way of recognising my interconnection with god, but I know other humans do the same thing just as effectively using difernt paths. Christianity is a viable, effective, and workable, way for a person to live a spiritual /religious life and to connect to god, but it is not the only such pathway. Relatively few christians, in my experience and reading, believe that (even theoretically) only christians will be in heaven after the ressurection. The latter is a very exclusivist and limiting thelogical position.

Yet Christ Himself said so. How are we to be called by His name yet not believe His own words? It is human discernment to decide what is acceptable for ourselves but if we truly are to follow Christ, don't we have to first believe what He said? I don't pretend to understand why others would be excluded. I don't believe it is due to any special abilities or holiness that Christians are given His grace. It all comes back to faith. Who is willing to believe that which they cannot prove with evidence for the senses? Abraham believed and it was counted for him as righteousness. By that standard the VAST majority will not be saved. They will live out their lives steering their own paths in the world and reject the notion of being told what to do by anyone. They think of it as freedom when in fact they are deluded. Yes, we have freedom to choose our path but every step takes us closer to God or farther from Him. And when this speck of time we call a life is finished we are held to account for every choice we made.

I made the choice to take Him at His word and admit that nothing in this life has meaning if He doesn't guide me into it. I have no need to be at enmity with any other person over their choices.

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Posted (edited)

Does this mean that you think all christians must be exclusivist christians to qualify as christian? Ie they see christianity as the only true spiritual path?

I have chosen christianity as a way to live my life and a formal way of recognising my interconnection with god, but I know other humans do the same thing just as effectively using difernt paths. Christianity is a viable, effective, and workable, way for a person to live a spiritual /religious life and to connect to god, but it is not the only such pathway. Relatively few christians, in my experience and reading, believe that (even theoretically) only christians will be in heaven after the ressurection. The latter is a very exclusivist and limiting thelogical position.

Your telling me that you have made your own religion up,I thought Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through me".That's the point everybody is making up their own version and calling themselves Christians .It seems to me that only Christians will be in heaven after the resurrection according to Jesus and not a load of Cherry pickers with their own brand of Christianity

fullywired

Edited by fullywired

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Yet Christ Himself said so. How are we to be called by His name yet not believe His own words? It is human discernment to decide what is acceptable for ourselves but if we truly are to follow Christ, don't we have to first believe what He said? I don't pretend to understand why others would be excluded. I don't believe it is due to any special abilities or holiness that Christians are given His grace. It all comes back to faith. Who is willing to believe that which they cannot prove with evidence for the senses? Abraham believed and it was counted for him as righteousness. By that standard the VAST majority will not be saved. They will live out their lives steering their own paths in the world and reject the notion of being told what to do by anyone. They think of it as freedom when in fact they are deluded. Yes, we have freedom to choose our path but every step takes us closer to God or farther from Him. And when this speck of time we call a life is finished we are held to account for every choice we made.

I made the choice to take Him at His word and admit that nothing in this life has meaning if He doesn't guide me into it. I have no need to be at enmity with any other person over their choices.

I appreciate this and I accept that in christian theology, christ died for all men. In that theology all men are redeemed by christs sacrifice. That doesnt mean all men have to be christian to be reconnected to god. God IS and we can reconnect to him in many ways.

Only an outright refusal to accept and be a part of god makes this reconnection to god impossible, because god cannot force us. I agree, many people choose to turn away from god willfully deliberately and permananently, and he can do little for them because they wont let him. But the great majority of humans believe in god and he can see into their hearts and minds to judge them as required.

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