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ancientpolygon

Results of the Russian LAH Group Expeditions

105 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

This is a video which I recently translated and narrated from Russian. If you are not familiar with the Laboratory of Alternative History, they are a group of Russian scientists, mathematicians, physicists and historians which travels around the world in search of traces left by an advanced ancient civilization. Here, their leading researcher Andrey Sklyarov gives a talk (with photos) detailing evidence of an advanced ancient civilization which existed on Earth in ancient times. This evidence was collected and photographed from 2004 to 2011 in the countries of Egypt, Peru, Mexico and Bolivia among many others. Some of the evidence discussed here details the use of advanced machining methods used in construction and the fabrication of various ancient objects.

Depending on how this video is received, I may translate some of their other videos and lectures including a whole series on Peru and Bolivia as well as Egypt.

Subtitles are available for those interested in spelling of the various names. Click on CC in the video player.

Video:

Watch it and let me know what you think.

Edited by ancientpolygon

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the video and of course, your translation, Ancientpolygon.

I am not a stone mason - and these things have been discussed for ages on this site - but it was one of the most fascinating videos I have seen for a long time.

I would certainly love to see the other translated videos.

++

Forgot to welcome you to this site, lol. Well, with a video like that, no surprise eh?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Thank you very much Abramelin, and thank you for the welcome as well!!

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Posted (edited)

Watch it and let me know what you think.

Excellent video. Please do share the others.

Tool marks like those shown are hard evidence that prove diorite pounders and bow-drills are explanations only for those who refuse to open their eyes.

Well done.

Edited by lilthor

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Excellent video. Please do share the others.

Tool marks like those shown are hard evidence that prove diorite pounders and bow-drills are explanations only for those who refuse to open their eyes.

Well done.

Like I said, I'm no stone mason, so my opinion about the video isn't worth that much.

I do know there are people posting on this board who do have experience with sculpting stone, and I hope they show up in this thread.

What I liked about the video - despite, heh, ancient super-advanced civilizations and maybe even 'aliens' entering the picture - is the sober way of presenting.

For once, no loony bull to wade through.

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This is a video which I recently translated and narrated from Russian. If you are not familiar with the Laboratory of Alternative History, they are a group of Russian scientists, mathematicians, physicists and historians which travels around the world in search of traces left by an advanced ancient civilization.

Hi ancientpolygon;

Thanks for doing the work translating and welcome to UM.

I love to see the ancient peoples still have us guessing how they achieved what they did with stone.

More translations would be great thanks when you have time. That fine tube of nephrite has me curious, does anyone know anymore about it?

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Posted (edited)

Like I said, I'm no stone mason, so my opinion about the video isn't worth that much.

I do know there are people posting on this board who do have experience with sculpting stone, and I hope they show up in this thread.

What I liked about the video - despite, heh, ancient super-advanced civilizations and maybe even 'aliens' entering the picture - is the sober way of presenting.

For once, no loony bull to wade through.

It is the old song: a harder material cannot be shock formed by a softer one (ye right, how is it that water can make holes in there?) and it is impossible to grind diamonds because there is nothing harder....

And fingers touching the central column of the Portico de La Gloria (Cathedral of Jacob the Elder, Santiago de Compostela) does not form stone either:5241494859_1bb9568fa9_z.jpg

As this image shows so clearly.

Edited by questionmark

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That is no way near to the images I saw in that video.

Watch the goddamn video.

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Like I said, I'm no stone mason, so my opinion about the video isn't worth that much.

I do know there are people posting on this board who do have experience with sculpting stone, and I hope they show up in this thread.

What I liked about the video - despite, heh, ancient super-advanced civilizations and maybe even 'aliens' entering the picture - is the sober way of presenting.

For once, no loony bull to wade through.

I'm not a stone cutter (per se) either, but I do have an extensive background in advanced machining. These Russian investigators (and Dunn too) know what they're talking about when it comes to the value of tool marks as trace evidence.

And if we get another sketch of a couple of skinny AE hunched over a bow drill as 'evidence' that precision stone machining was common in 2,500BC Egypt, I'll say it's only evidence that there's fringe at both ends of this carpet.

Btw, the image in the video of the guy with his reflection on the underside of granite box lid is astonishing.

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I'm not a stone cutter (per se) either, but I do have an extensive background in advanced machining. These Russian investigators (and Dunn too) know what they're talking about when it comes to the value of tool marks as trace evidence.

And if we get another sketch of a couple of skinny AE hunched over a bow drill as 'evidence' that precision stone machining was common in 2,500BC Egypt, I'll say it's only evidence that there's fringe at both ends of this carpet.

Btw, the image in the video of the guy with his reflection on the underside of granite box lid is astonishing.

And if we get another sketch of a couple of skinny AE hunched over a bow drill as 'evidence'

Be honest, they didnt show you that in this video.

This guy was blunt honest, no fringe crappola, just facts and an a dry account of what he saw with his own eyes.

I am longing for more.

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Be honest, they didnt show you that in this video.

This guy was blunt honest, no fringe crappola, just facts and an a dry account of what he saw with his own eyes.

I am longing for more.

Then go out get yourself a hunk of rock and see for yourself if it possible.

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Be honest, they didnt show you that in this video.

No...and I didn't mean to suggest they did. Such inane sketches ARE put forth by others from time to time here on UM as 'proof' though. Hall of Ma'at comes to mind.

No, this video is very down-to-earth insofar as the physical evidence goes.

I think it's a huge and most intriguing mystery.

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It is the old song: a harder material cannot be shock formed by a softer one (ye right, how is it that water can make holes in there?) and it is impossible to grind diamonds because there is nothing harder....

And fingers touching the central column of the Portico de La Gloria (Cathedral of Jacob the Elder, Santiago de Compostela) does not form stone either:5241494859_1bb9568fa9_z.jpg

As this image shows so clearly.

That looks like the result of a bad meal, not precision machining.

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OK, if the question is if a hard material can be worked with a softer one, it's pretty well established that if two materials of different hardness are rubbed together, the harder one is worn away. The reason for this counter-intuitive result is that atmospheric dust, which is both sharp and very hard, embeds in the softer surface which then abrades the harder one like a sanding block.

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Posted (edited)

That looks like the result of a bad meal, not precision machining.

true, but as you can see here, and all around Angkor Wat you don't need any rocket science to "precision machine rock". A few yards of rope and some trees suffice:

Angkor+05+-+Stone+grinding+%28Nat+Geo%29.jpg

Edit: Garble

Edited by questionmark

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OK, if the question is if a hard material can be worked with a softer one, it's pretty well established that if two materials of different hardness are rubbed together, the harder one is worn away. The reason for this counter-intuitive result is that atmospheric dust, which is both sharp and very hard, embeds in the softer surface which then abrades the harder one like a sanding block.

Alright, I couldn't resist... I just had to try this... took a four inch piece of chalk and started rubbing it on a piece of slate that I had handy... so far half the chalk is gone and I see no appreciable wear on the slate... where are you citing this 'well established' proof from again?

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Posted (edited)

true, but as you can see here, and all around Angkor Wat you don't need any rocket science to "precision machine rock". A few yards of rope and some trees suffice:

Angkor+05+-+Stone+grinding+%28Nat+Geo%29.jpg

It's really all about the 3 S's: scope, scale, and speed. These are what the OP video address so well.

The (industrious) fellows shown above seem rather lacking in all 3.

Edited by lilthor

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Posted (edited)

Edit: remove double post.

Edited by lilthor

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It's really all about the 3 S's: scope, scale, and speed. These are what the OP video address so well.

The (industrious) fellows shown above seem rather lacking in all 3.

Well, two goons are not getting enough stone to get a pyramid together (where I have shown a least a dozen times that there was really no "precision masoning" except for the casing stones, they are in fact pretty shoddy workmanship if we compare them with temples from the same time). Ten thousand and you can send 'em home at harvest time to help their families.

And as you see above the whole Angkor Wat complex was build in 27 years. If you can't work fast you need more worker, as simple as that.

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I'm not a stone cutter (per se) either, but I do have an extensive background in advanced machining. These Russian investigators (and Dunn too) know what they're talking about when it comes to the value of tool marks as trace evidence.

And if we get another sketch of a couple of skinny AE hunched over a bow drill as 'evidence' that precision stone machining was common in 2,500BC Egypt, I'll say it's only evidence that there's fringe at both ends of this carpet.

Btw, the image in the video of the guy with his reflection on the underside of granite box lid is astonishing.

Can understand your reference to the diagnostic qualities of tool marks. Utilize such. However, the presentation is limited. The research of Harrell and Per Storemyr in regards to the quarrying sites is of interest on a number of levels. In addition to the other elements (including logistics) presented, you may wish to examine the tooling marks in Figure 6. In regards to polish, you may wish to examine Figure 15. Note materials assortment including basalt. The processes demonstrated in Figure 16 are also of interest.

http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Harrell_Storemyr_AncientEgyptianQuarries_IllustratedOverview.pdf

Additional information from Harrell:

http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/faculty/harrell/Egypt/Stone%20Use/Harrell_Stones_text.htm

Your may also find Stocks' book to be of interest:

http://books.google.com/books?id=oLDuHvQODoIC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=Egypt+fourth+dynasty+archaeology&source=bl&ots=AfsC_zm6eU&sig=Po39M4-nFfMlsZNqYbOTnJ4BQFg&hl=en&ei=vgnSTK2iHoqSnwekhdE_&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDUQ6AEwCTgU#v=onepage&q=Egypt%20fourth%20dynasty%20archaeology&f=false

Also, do not forget the metallurgical aspect:

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/trades/tools.htm

Lastly, one must look at the extended time period during which the culture produced "monumental" lithic creations. Re-check the documentation for the extremely large obelisk that cracked before completion (and associated tooling marks). The Russian presenter would not appear to reconcile the lack of evidence for any artifacts that would be associated with his speculations, particularly in regards to the time span. In addition, he ends with what one could term a fore-gone conclusion which would not appear to be supported.

.

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I'm glad to have started this discussion. I really respect that group of scientists and their findings. Unfortunately, most or all of their material has not been translated, and there's a ton of it. They have lectures, series, etc. All of their material is very concise and there's no fluff in it at all. There's a very interesting lecture on Nazca designs and how they are done using Bezier Curves, using mathematical methods:) There's a 6 part series on Youtube about Peru and Bolivia here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7tKpONhbQ

Episode 1 - Nazca, Episode 2 - Evidence of a Flood, Episode 3 - 10,000 Year Old Technology, Episode 4 - Creations of the Gods, Episode 5 - Those Who Lost the War, Episode 6 - Mystery of the Ica Stones.

They also have a series on Lebanon, Israel, Iran, Egypt.. I think they're working on the one for Greece. This translation took me over 2 weeks to complete... However, I would be better at it if I decided to do it again.

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I'm glad to have started this discussion. I really respect that group of scientists and their findings. Unfortunately, most or all of their material has not been translated, and there's a ton of it. They have lectures, series, etc. All of their material is very concise and there's no fluff in it at all. There's a very interesting lecture on Nazca designs and how they are done using Bezier Curves, using mathematical methods:) There's a 6 part series on Youtube about Peru and Bolivia here:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yS7tKpONhbQ

Episode 1 - Nazca, Episode 2 - Evidence of a Flood, Episode 3 - 10,000 Year Old Technology, Episode 4 - Creations of the Gods, Episode 5 - Those Who Lost the War, Episode 6 - Mystery of the Ica Stones.

They also have a series on Lebanon, Israel, Iran, Egypt.. I think they're working on the one for Greece. This translation took me over 2 weeks to complete... However, I would be better at it if I decided to do it again.

Welcome, and thank you for your efforts. May be able to save you some time.

When one researches the "Labratory of Alternative History", you will find the following:

http://lah.ru/fotoarh/oskolki/crespi.htm

Yes, it is primarily in Russian. Simply click one of the major headings at the top and "randomly" select one of the subheadings that are presented. Then paste the URL into Google Translate. Will not bother to waste bandwidth with an example.

What you will find is an extensive regurgitation of the innumerable fringe speculations the have been addressed on these pages ad infinitum. And not necessarily well done at that.

It is somehow perversely amusing to observe the global nature of unqualified fringe ramblings.

.

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Nice video, and thanks for the translation. I have heard these theories before, but usually by fringe scientist that think it was the cause of ancient aliens, so a more "down to earth" video like this was very nice. I always thought that the ancient monoliths were not created by aliens, but rather a technology that has since been lost made more sense. Lets not forget however that the Egyptians paid in beer, and that's enough for me to do any strenuous labor :tu:

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Welcome, and thank you for your efforts. May be able to save you some time.

When one researches the "Labratory of Alternative History", you will find the following:

http://lah.ru/fotoarh/oskolki/crespi.htm

Yes, it is primarily in Russian. Simply click one of the major headings at the top and "randomly" select one of the subheadings that are presented. Then paste the URL into Google Translate. Will not bother to waste bandwidth with an example.

What you will find is an extensive regurgitation of the innumerable fringe speculations the have been addressed on these pages ad infinitum. And not necessarily well done at that.

It is somehow perversely amusing to observe the global nature of unqualified fringe ramblings.

.

Well, I'll say that while they may have some disputable pages on their website, the core team and their latest lectures are pretty well made and meticulous in their gathering and analyzing of data. I consider them to be the best resource when looking for info on advanced ancient civilizations from actual scientists. I can also say that in one of the latest lectures Sklyarov shows considerable evidence against the Sitchin-type beliefs of Nibiru and hollow earth theory. A right thing to do I think because quite a few people have committed suicide based on this Sitchin nonsense. So, I consider this group to be a fairly credible and responsible people. I think that in their written reports they mostly post photos along with some theories...The really sweet stuff is in the videos! Plus you also have to be familiar with the Russian style of presenting and writing about things. So, no, I don't think Google translate will work very well in this case. Sorry, but thanks for playing!:)

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Posted (edited)

Well, I'll say that while they may have some disputable pages on their website, the core team and their latest lectures are pretty well made and meticulous in their gathering and analyzing of data. I consider them to be the best resource when looking for info on advanced ancient civilizations from actual scientists. I can also say that in one of the latest lectures Sklyarov shows considerable evidence against the Sitchin-type beliefs of Nibiru and hollow earth theory. A right thing to do I think because quite a few people have committed suicide based on this Sitchin nonsense. So, I consider this group to be a fairly credible and responsible people. I think that in their written reports they mostly post photos along with some theories...The really sweet stuff is in the videos! Plus you also have to be familiar with the Russian style of presenting and writing about things. So, no, I don't think Google translate will work very well in this case. Sorry, but thanks for playing!:)

It is admirable that Sklyarov has argued against the well-discounted works of Sitchin, etc. However, do not be misled by claims of credibility or video-type presentations.

Admittedly cursory investigation into Sklyarov's professional background would appear to indicate that such background is more oriented towards media. Perhaps you have more extensive information?

As to meticulous - Did not observe any presentation of microscopic use-wear analysis. If incorrect on this, please inform. There would also be appear to be a dearth of cultural/technological context supplied. Will defer from more critical comment for the moment.

If you have access to written "reports" other than Sklyarov's site, could you provide reference to such?

One may also be advised to investigate involvements and associations as per the following:

http://www.ufodigest...-flood-europe-0

http://wiki.ufohqs.c...t_of_Ufologists

http://82.193.140.11/atl/

http://thepiratebay....ov.lang-russian

The following tedious piece is reflective of Sklyarov's position. Despite the clumsy translational aspects, the position and technical flaws are quite obvious. The repeated citations of the likes of fringe authors such as Hancock and Bauval hardly support Sklyarov's credibility. His references to the dating of the constructions of the Giza plateau, etc. have been well discounted via the radiocarbon dating of Bonani, et. al., in addition to the voluminous cultural and material research relating to the period. The list goes on.

http://lah.ru/text/s...v/potop-eng.htm

In short, you are dealing with a fringe group that is attempting to present themselves under the guise of credible research while actually promoting an "alien intervention/contact" position. Amongst others. They are essentially a "new generation" of fringe exponents that would appear to be basing at least some of their "research" on the works of previously discounted writers. Their cheap ploy in regards to the "historical value" of their "research" as it relates to future cultural planning is directly derived from some aspects of current archaeological research and is a transparent attempt utilize this aspect as some form of credible justification.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede

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