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1963

UFO Frustration Rant.

78 posts in this topic

UFO Frustration Rant.

Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...'if I click on another link that proclaims .. "Real UFO Caught On Film", and it turns out to be some innocuous fuzzy lights filmed from zillions of miles away, that could just as easily be a balloon, aeroplane or intentional hoax' ..

I mean...how many of these high altitude 'Orbs' can we view without yawning?..and how many distant 'Flashing Lights' are likely to be anything less prosaic than aeroplane lights?

And don't get me started on the recent advent of the dreaded'Chinese Lanterns'!!

...And I could rant for days about these awful 'Captured-Alien..dead or alive' vid's!

And there are only 'very few' out of the myriad Alien-Abduction claims that are worthy of consideration!

This is just a handful of examples of the irksome side of amateur-ufology...there are many more of these diseases that infest the field !.. With the biggest of these 'Cancers' being the dishonest people that for various reasons intend to deceive the innocent students of this very real world-wide phenomena!.. Hoaxers,Liars, Snake-oil-salesmen,Charlatans or whatever you prefer to call them, and for whatever reason they practise their art...Money,Fame,Egotism etc..They are the ones that are eating away at the legitimacy of this field of study and trivialising the honest endeavours of the truly studious figures, past and present that have devoted their lives to shedding light on this enigma in a solemn and honourable manner!...People such as MacDonald,Hynek,Haines,Maccabbee,Friedman, Vallee,etc!

And then there's the credulous factor!..the supporters of the likes of Meier,Dean,Adamski,Vesco,Von Daniken etc , that takes the subject down to well below the level of a snakes testicles, for which the mere mentioning of their names should bring with it a life-time ban from serious UFO/ET forums for the transgressors!

OK!...Rant over!..it's bedtime, goodnight all.

Cheers.

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Perhaps that IS the phenomenon – a human-centred mystery as complex and confounding as the people who engage in it…

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Nah, you aren't alone in that 1963. Not at all.

I gave up the search long ago. I've wasted countless hours wading through ridiculous video after ridiculous video. And then I realized that if something truly groundbreaking ever did surface... I'm sure it will come out and catch my attention. I'm done chasing after ET.

Cheers.

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1963 - This is the same for all the topics here. Ghosts, Cryptids, etc. 'tis the nature of the beast. :blush:

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What you always kick skeptics for doing. Must be quite an epiphany.

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Posted (edited)

UFO Frustration Rant.

Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...'if I click on another link that proclaims .. "Real UFO Caught On Film", and it turns out to be some innocuous fuzzy lights filmed from zillions of miles away, that could just as easily be a balloon, aeroplane or intentional hoax' ..

I mean...how many of these high altitude 'Orbs' can we view without yawning?..and how many distant 'Flashing Lights' are likely to be anything less prosaic than aeroplane lights?

And don't get me started on the recent advent of the dreaded'Chinese Lanterns'!!

...And I could rant for days about these awful 'Captured-Alien..dead or alive' vid's!

And there are only 'very few' out of the myriad Alien-Abduction claims that are worthy of consideration!

This is just a handful of examples of the irksome side of amateur-ufology...there are many more of these diseases that infest the field !.. With the biggest of these 'Cancers' being the dishonest people that for various reasons intend to deceive the innocent students of this very real world-wide phenomena!.. Hoaxers,Liars, Snake-oil-salesmen,Charlatans or whatever you prefer to call them, and for whatever reason they practise their art...Money,Fame,Egotism etc..They are the ones that are eating away at the legitimacy of this field of study and trivialising the honest endeavours of the truly studious figures, past and present that have devoted their lives to shedding light on this enigma in a solemn and honourable manner!...People such as MacDonald,Hynek,Haines,Maccabbee,Friedman, Vallee,etc!

And then there's the credulous factor!..the supporters of the likes of Meier,Dean,Adamski,Vesco,Von Daniken etc , that takes the subject down to well below the level of a snakes testicles, for which the mere mentioning of their names should bring with it a life-time ban from serious UFO/ET forums for the transgressors!

OK!...Rant over!..it's bedtime, goodnight all.

Cheers.

It's selling a dream and Mr. Friedman was one of those fueling the imagination of many by perpetuating fanciful tales on his (rather unremarkable) reputation as a nuclear physicist - so I cannot agree with him being in the company you mention. But I certainly agree that it is a mess and the reason is the total lack of common sense and critical thinking, sacrificed on the altar of the exotic and exiting. Sadly, it never works that way - real science typically prevails, however boring it might seem to some.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited for missing word.

Edited by badeskov

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1963, just imagine how frustrated you'd be if you had actually seen a UFO, but couldn't (even 35 years later) manage to figure out exactly *what* it was you'd seen! Believe me, all the silliness and faking would really irritate the hell out of you at that point. :yes:

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Thanks for the replies guys! :tu: (mostly..)

The truth is that contrary to popular belief, I have always viewed these YouTube offerings with a tightly-sceptical eye,(though perfect.. I am not!) thus the reason that I rarely opine that any of them are anything more than 'interesting'..and have even on occasion attempted to "Debunk" some of the more serious deceptive-efforts (Skinny-Bob etc.)

And yesterday was one of my rare 'me-days', and I had a few hours to troll the net,(sure to find the smoking-gun ^_^ )...but sadly, after about four hours of dead-ends and YouTube dross,in the realisation that I had wasted this valuable time,and tiredness, my severe disappointment caused the rant!

And it worked...I slept better after it! :lol:

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)

UFO Frustration Rant.

Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...

1963, join the crowd.

I was such a believer i ran a paranormal web site for years (supernaturalstuff.com). One day the switch just went "click" in my head and i said "ENOUGH!"

In this day and age of digital technology in the hands of millions of people everywhere there is no reason why i should still be deciphering grainy dots of lights in the sky for UFO evidence, vague shadows in a line of trees for evidence of big foot ("That's not a log! That's big foot!") or listening closely to hours of audio static for signs of communications from the dead.

Then you follow the money trails and you begin to see UFOs, ghosts, big foot, etc., are big business. Lots of people and communities are financially dependent on people believing these things. What do we expect the business people of Roswell, NM to say when we ask if a UFO really crashed in 1947? The town has restaurants, bars, souvenir shops, museums - an entire tourist trade - that would crumble if somebody ever popped the Roswell bubble and people stopped believing.

Stanton Friedman is huge in the UFO community. He stopped doing nuclear physics around 1970. He's been on the UFO gravy train ever since. Do you think he has a financial interest in people believing in UFOs? Do you think he would ever admit his pay checks (documentaries, lectures, books) are based on inconclusive evidence?

Of course we can get into all the paranormal TV shows and documentaries. All of them at some point have been caught faking or misrepresenting their "evidence", and why not? Huge ratings equals huge profits.

Vague evidence and second hand accounts were all fine and dandy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. But in this day and age, with digital video, audio and picture devices in the hands of tens of millions of people, i demand more conclusive evidence.

The bottom line is, the quality and quantity of paranormal evidence hasn't improved with the quality and quantity of evidence gathering equipment. That's a problem - not for me, for those bearing the burden of paranormal proof.

:alien: <- NOT!

Edited by Paul Rubino

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....Milton Freidman is huge in the UFO community. He stopped doing nuclear physics around 1970....

I think you mean Stanton Friedman. I'm pretty sure that Milton Friedman is an economist. :yes:

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I think you mean Stanton Friedman. I'm pretty sure that Milton Friedman is an economist. :yes:

:w00t: LOL! How embarrassing! LOL! I should correct that ... :wacko:

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1963, join the crowd.

I was such a believer i ran a paranormal web site for years (supernaturalstuff.com). One day the switch just went "click" in my head and i said "ENOUGH!"

In this day and age of digital technology in the hands of millions of people everywhere there is no reason why i should still be deciphering grainy dots of lights in the sky for UFO evidence, vague shadows in a line of trees for evidence of big foot ("That's not a log! That's big foot!") or listening closely to hours of audio static for signs of communications from the dead.

Then you follow the money trails and you begin to see UFOs, ghosts, big foot, etc., are big business. Lots of people and communities are financially dependent on people believing these things. What do we expect the business people of Roswell, NM to say when we ask if a UFO really crashed in 1947? The town has restaurants, bars, souvenir shops, museums - an entire tourist trade - that would crumble if somebody ever popped the Roswell bubble and people stopped believing.

Milton Freidman is huge in the UFO community. He stopped doing nuclear physics around 1970. He's been on the UFO gravy train ever since. Do you think he has a financial interest in people believing in UFOs? Do you think he would ever admit his pay checks (documentaries, lectures, books) are based on inconclusive evidence?

Of course we can get into all the paranormal TV shows and documentaries. All of them at some point have been caught faking or misrepresenting their "evidence", and why not? Huge ratings equals huge profits.

Vague evidence and second hand accounts were all fine and dandy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. But in this day and age, with digital video, audio and picture devices in the hands of tens of millions of people, i demand more conclusive evidence.

The bottom line is, the quality and quantity of paranormal evidence hasn't improved with the quality and quantity of evidence gathering equipment. That's a problem - not for me, for those bearing the burden of paranormal proof.

:alien: <- NOT!

Hi Paul!

Thanks for the interesting summary of your position. :tu:

And I would have to agree with the bulk of your content.

But to single out Stanton Friedman as others on this forum do is what I would call 'going for the easy target'!

For me, Stanton is an honourable man who speaks from the hip.

Infallible he is not, nor 'to the best of my knowledge' has he ever claimed to be!

Of course he doesn't know everything and would probably be the first to admit that. And so he (as everyone has to at some point in life) takes the odd leap of faith...putting two and two together to reach a conclusion. And it is up to one's self to assess whether Stanton's mathematics are probable...and in most cases, I believe that he is probably correct!

He is no different to any of the other professional ufologists in this method. (Professional being the operative word)..and this is due to the fact that like the other aforementioned respected ufologists he is working with limited materials!(ie..partial data)

And for the other (self-proclaimed-scientific folk)that attack Stanton's credentials and past scientific career, and then rounding on him for his eventual profession-choice smacks of nothing more than a limp effort at character assassination and a condescending way of appearing superior in order to belittle and negate the man's obvious intelligence and grasp of the scientific critical thinking that is required to be taken seriously in the very real field of professional ufology!

And for the record Paul...I respect your opinion that nothing Extraterrestrial happened at the 1947 Roswell Incident, and agree that it has been an almighty cash-cow for many people over the last thirty years or so...but I still feel that there is enough anecdotal and circumstantial evidence to make me lean toward it being a 'convoluted but compelling' nod toward an ET mishap!

But of course this is just my opinion. :tu:

Cheers buddy.

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The lack of any credible evidence & proliferation of third rate & fake ufo vids on youtube would tend to suggest something rather obvious wouldn't it?

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The bottom line is, the quality and quantity of paranormal evidence hasn't improved with the quality and quantity of evidence gathering equipment.

That, if nothing else, is the killer for me.

In the developed world, almost everyone has a (admittedly very basic) camera nearby, and for less than $200 you can buy a very capable camera.. We have a huge communications network (the Interweb..) connecting billions of people and allowing the sharing of information and techniques, and allowing high level collaborative analysis, discussion and debate.. And from all this, the number of even vaguely convincing sightings is, if anything, declining.. Hence the enthusiasm at looking at the 'old favorites' in depth and applying new techniques. But it seems that even there, the number of 'possibles' is going down, not up.

Then we have the new age of image manipulation where hoaxes are now very common and we have to apply fairly intense scrutiny to eliminate those.

So what do we learn from all this? First up, I think that in many ways the new ability to communicate is great.. and when added to the much greater scrutiny that is being applied to sightings and the associated stories *because* of the ease of hoaxing.. We are hopefully becoming a bit more grown up in our ability to spot the Meiers and Maussans quickly..

Secondly, I believe we are thinking more laterally about motivations and understanding the incredibly complex nature of human perception to a much better level. Our minds are wonderfully clever at twisting our perceptions and recollections - it doesn't mean we are lying or delusional, it's simply what we believe..

Finally, I think the only thing more awe-inspiring than the possibility of alien visit, is the overwhelming immensity of the universe and the seemingly impervious barriers that may be stopping us from ever detecting what may be teeming bazillions of aliens. Or the even more wild and weird possibility that perhaps we are the only ones..

I think there is so much to marvel at, to admire, to try to understand in our Universe - do we really need more? The current lack of aliens doesn't frustrate me in the slightest... B)

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I feel ya. It is very frustrating at times. Especialy for folks like myself who have witnessed a real UFO. Why there isnt many good quailty video's on the subject I just dont understand.

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In fairness though, I think if I had filmed the UFO I saw that night, I might not be willing to show it to the world. No doubt people would say all kinds of terrible things about me and how I faked it. There are SOME good clips of UFO's out there. Question is, if you saw a good legit video, would you believe it? Most wouldnt.

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In fairness though, I think if I had filmed the UFO I saw that night, I might not be willing to show it to the world. No doubt people would say all kinds of terrible things about me and how I faked it.

Assuming that you mean that the ufo was 'special' (ie alien-like).. IF you kept the original footage (and made copies available), and IF the story was coherent, logical and well-documented, and IF the object captured was indeed unexplainable by terrestrial tech... then why would it matter if some people said terrible things? Others would be on your side, and if the above applied, there would be more of them than the doubters.

I'm sure that there are many people here on UM who would LOVE to see genuine, well-documented footage that was something other than a thing looking a lot like an aircraft or a bokeh-blob.. And surely (if the claim is that it was something 'beyond' just being a ufo, ie of alien origin) then it is fair to ask - where is the evidence that it is undeniably alien? If it is just more lights-in-the-sky stuff, seriously, why should we care?

There are SOME good clips of UFO's out there.

Which one is the best of those? Are you just talking about UFOs as per definition, or are you referring to evidence of ET?

Question is, if you saw a good legit video, would you believe it? Most wouldnt.

I think you are underestimating (even insulting) the denizens of UM. If it had a matching legit story and provenance, and fulfilled the requirements above, I'd certainly believe it. But are you now talking about ufo's, or alien visits? Nobody here, as far as I am aware, debates whether there are lots of ufo sightings. It is natural because of our ever-crowded sky.

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I dont believe in aliens.

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Posted (edited)

I dont believe in aliens.

Well that's good because you don't have to believe in 'aliens' to participate in good old fashioned UFO discussions!

Is your stance on aliens stretch to any type of alien life form? The word "belief" is very vague and doesn't really work here as it would with, say, a religion.

I ask out of pure curiosity, by the way. I'm not trying to be rude.

Edited by Legaia

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Well that's good because you don't have to believe in 'aliens' to participate in good old fashioned UFO discussions!

No doubt. I love the topic. If I had not seen what I saw, Id probably think folks who say they saw similar things to the one Ive seen were crazy. NTM I know alot of folks including my mother, that saw the now famous hudson valley boomerang. UFO's are a reality I in no way could denie.

Is your stance on aliens stretch to any type of alien life form? The word "belief" is very vague and doesn't really work here as it would with, say, a religion.

I ask out of pure curiosity, by the way. I'm not trying to be rude.

Im talking about the little gray big black eye'd aliens. I just havent seen anything that would make me believe they exist. I dont know who made or flew the UFO I saw, but I tend to believe they are made right here on earth. The most advanced plane we have, known to the public, is 40 years old. Top secret for 20 years, and in the publics eye for 20 years (at least). I think we have achieved far more advanced tech over that time.

As far as any life out in the great wide open that we call space, I really just dont know. I lean twards no, mostly cause I dont believe life can create its self under any condition without a designer, or creator. But thats a whole other subject.

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The lack of any credible evidence & proliferation of third rate & fake ufo vids on youtube would tend to suggest something rather obvious wouldn't it?

Occams razor tends to point at us being the incorrect parameter in this equation. The replies have been very good (mostly) however, I predict the OP will place up another Skylab or Ice particle clip from Youtube in the near future, and call everyone who is not dazzled by it closed minded and so forth. I disagree with the OP's description of Stanton Friedman's method, and mentioning math as part of it. As far as I know Mr Friedman's prime method if investigation is eyewitness recollection (English) as opposed to someone like Bruce Macabee who does indeed tend to attempt to resolve his inconsistencies largely with math. IN fat the argument he won with Phill Klass pertained to a typeset. But then again earlier we also saw names like McDonald who are largely to blame for the ET misconceptions and the notoriety they receive today. It seems rather blatant that after 60 years if we are still scratching our heads that these fellows may well have been on their own garden path so to speak, but that does not hinder their legacy of tales of wonderment to explain anomalies in the skies.

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Theres many names that would be great to include to this thread. a few astronauts,Aircraft designers ,Lots of Military peep`s ! I`ll be scratching my head until the Cows get Tipped !

Cheer`s from Texas !

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UFO Frustration Rant.

Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...'if I click on another link that proclaims .. "Real UFO Caught On Film", and it turns out to be some innocuous fuzzy lights filmed from zillions of miles away, that could just as easily be a balloon, aeroplane or intentional hoax' ..

I mean...how many of these high altitude 'Orbs' can we view without yawning?..and how many distant 'Flashing Lights' are likely to be anything less prosaic than aeroplane lights?

And don't get me started on the recent advent of the dreaded'Chinese Lanterns'!!

...And I could rant for days about these awful 'Captured-Alien..dead or alive' vid's!

And there are only 'very few' out of the myriad Alien-Abduction claims that are worthy of consideration!

This is just a handful of examples of the irksome side of amateur-ufology...there are many more of these diseases that infest the field !.. With the biggest of these 'Cancers' being the dishonest people that for various reasons intend to deceive the innocent students of this very real world-wide phenomena!.. Hoaxers,Liars, Snake-oil-salesmen,Charlatans or whatever you prefer to call them, and for whatever reason they practise their art...Money,Fame,Egotism etc..They are the ones that are eating away at the legitimacy of this field of study and trivialising the honest endeavours of the truly studious figures, past and present that have devoted their lives to shedding light on this enigma in a solemn and honourable manner!...People such as MacDonald,Hynek,Haines,Maccabbee,Friedman, Vallee,etc!

And then there's the credulous factor!..the supporters of the likes of Meier,Dean,Adamski,Vesco,Von Daniken etc , that takes the subject down to well below the level of a snakes testicles, for which the mere mentioning of their names should bring with it a life-time ban from serious UFO/ET forums for the transgressors!

OK!...Rant over!..it's bedtime, goodnight all.

Cheers.

You think that's bad!? I've been waiting for Dr. Dre to release 'Detox' since 2001... :w00t:

But in all seriousness, with regards to the above album also, it gets to a point where you have to realise you might never get what you want.

It's better to take a sideline approach with these things, observe, be hopeful, but be aware that until the fact (UFO disclosure/the release of a long awaited album - which both most probably will not happen in our life times) you should take everything with a grain of salt.

Tim.

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In Science, the absence of evidence is NOT equivalent to evidence of absence.

It simply equates to Unknown. That is as far as my mind is willing to go. Beyond that, is an emotional reaction of disappointment, contempt, ego-satisfaction, and other such unobjective responses.

UFOs have not been disproven, which leaves them in the unidentified category. Show me evidence that the government is responsible for all of the sightings, that birds and swamp gas and whatever are definitely responsible for all sightings, and I will accept it.

But there remain too many that have not been explained by something else. Those cases tend to be ones that are not the result of current means of trickery. They have to be accounted for.

As long as there are unknowns, no one can state definitively that UFOs are not unidentified flying objects. By definition. Beyond that is speculation.

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Posted (edited)

I, along with several other people I know have seen very strange lights/shapes in the sky, some performing atypically acrobatic feats of maneuvering and speed.

Not one of us jumps to the conclusion that aliens are flying these objects. The term UFO does not necessitate alien occupants.

IMO, a UFO is more likely an unconventional human-flown craft or something weird going on in the atmosphere.

As far as my UFO's on video perspective:

If aliens are taken out of the UFO equation, why is it so hard to believe that many UFO videos are legitimate? Instead of thinking "that's a weird object in the sky", many people think "there is no such thing as aliens. This is fake"!

To the OP: you can rest assured that many weird objects are in the sky.

Edited by morrowcosom

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