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me-wonders

Our dark side

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I questioning what is our dark side and how do we keep it repressed? In quotations is a story from history, and what happened at Munster is not so different from what happened in Occupy camps.

The Holy Terrors of Munster In the long record of man's savagery to man, there is not more brutal episode than the drama of the Anabaptist revolution played out in the small city of Munster in northwest Germany in 1534-35. There, as the medieval world was dying and the modern age dawning, as an anciet social order disintegrated and a new proletariat was born, starving and desperate men conceived a utopian kingdom of eternal goodness and eternal peace- and ended by creating a forerunner of the modern totalitarian state.

Edmund Stillman "The Holy Terrors of Munster".

I am not sure Edmund Stillman association with the modern totalitarian state is not a prejudice that distorts the lesson we need to learn, but his account of what happened deserves our attention. I see a relationship between what happened in Munster and Occupy.

Anabaptist competed with Lutherans, and eventually became Mennonites and Amish. Something the later faiths might want to deny because they want to distance themselves from what happened at Munster. However, getting back to Occupy, this was not a religious movement, neither was the Russian revolution exactly a religious movement, because the Russian revolution banned religion. What is shared in common is the dying of an old order and beginning of a new order, also the gathering of rootless and discontent people, who want to believe if we lived communally, sharing everything equally, life would be better. These rootless and discontent people reacting against all forms of authority, and reducing their order to anarchy.

"But Munster would not remain Lutheran, and conservative, for long. When in 1532, the nearby Dutchy of Cleves expelled its Anabaptist, many of them migrated to Munster, carrying with them their doctrinal contagion. From then on the movement grew within the walls of the city. In 1533 new recruits, the first of many, arrived from the Netherlands, among them Jan Bockelson of Leyden, a young man of twenty-four who had been baptized into the movement only a few months before. "And so they came". records a chronicle, "the Dutch and the Frissians and the scoundrels from all parts who had never settled anywhere; they flocked to Munster and collected there."

As did the same kind of people flock to the Occupy camps, completely changing the movement from an economic focus to a social focus, and orderly protest to mayhem.

As within the walls of Munster, private property of all kinds was made communal property. At Munster monogamony gave way to men having many wives and as conditions deteriorated to no sexual restraints but using sex to make up for all the unmet needs, including the need for food. Today, we seem to be maintain some respect for monogamony, but not gender differences, and not long term faithfulness. Relationships last as long both people feel good. These are not the committed relationships that establish social order. We are living according to our feelings, not according to principles.

Around the city were mercenaries sent to crush the rebellion, and they laid siege on Munster, preventing any supplies from getting in, leading to starvation.

Quote: "At last, in May (1535), when most of the inhabitants had tasted no bread for eight weeks," writes Cohn, "the king agreed that those who wised should leave the town. Even then he cursed the fugitives, promising them that the reward for their infidelity would be everlasting damnation. Their earthly fate was indeed fearful enough. The able bodied men were at once put to the sword; as for the women and old men and children, the Bishop feared- not unreasonably- that if they passed through his lines they would stir up trouble in the rear and accordingly refused to allow them past the blockhouses. These people therefore lingered of for five weeks in the no man's land before the town walls, begging the mercenaries to kill them, crawling about and eating grass like animals and dying in such numbers that the ground was littered with corpses."

Putting able bodied men to the sword, comes from the old testament, to assure loyalty.

Within the city Anabaptist watched from the walls and jeered, acting out the belief so dear to medieval man that the greatest delight of the saved in Paradise was watching the sufferings of the damned in hell. Of course everyone within the city walls, were also starving and the siege ended in them all dying or being killed, and the leaders were hung in cages outside the city wall, where they remained until rather recently.

Occupy Eugene was surrounded by a fence, by city orders. Our story is not as dramatic, but when a man was killed in the camp, and the city counselors felt justified in closing the camp, a news photographer took a picture of the councilors, and they were smiling. I had mixed feelings as we did not get the promised social services, but I was also glad to distance myself from the mayham and human suffering.

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....it seems man desired to create civilization yet the original barbarism remained in man... can man then not distance himself from the animal within? Despite their religious beliefs? Is it inherent of man to be animal?

and a further question this made me ask is: "when you make man face his dark side, would he continue or stop acting on it"? They faced the fact that they were living like animals in the first place, desired to create a modern society... they faced the dark side as in "man's animal side and need for improvement"... yet it seems as if though despite their works for improvement the savagery remains.

barbaric.jpg

I like this picture... as if denoting no matter how pretty the PICTURE looks on the outside the inside is rotten...

Today my mother and I went to buy sandwiches and two black children walked passed us and looking and staring at us.. as if they desired to be WHITE, thinking "them whites have it easy why can't we be like them"... we were in our vehicle and they were on foot... and I thought to myself... "you have no idea what's it like be white, not all is as perfect as it seems, we might have fancy cars and plenty of food but our lives are really hell just like yours"...

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Darkness is an equation to light. The greater the light in a man. Bigger is the shadow that follows, threatening to overcome him.Just never let your guards down! :devil:

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Darkness is an equation to light. The greater the light in a man. Bigger is the shadow that follows, threatening to overcome him.Just never let your guards down! :devil:

So the more man became evolved the more evil he became...mmm.. interesting thought... balance is everything lol :yes:

Yet how do you curb that dark side? With more knowledge and power comes more responsibility, but those who only want to power and are GREEDY will ABUSE that power and then you will end up with a HOT MESS.

I think the next question should be: "can man ever outgrow his own ego"?

Edited by araxia
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I had forgotten this thread and had to read what I wrote to know what is about. You all have added some good thinking, and this is so important to our personal power, as then we can consciously make decisions and direct our lives, instead of feeling like leaves blown in the wind.

The reasoning for self government is based on the belief that humans can reason, and therefore they can live by reason. However,we can not reason about something, if we have no word and no concept for something we might think about. If we had no word for angry, we could not think about it and could not discuss it. We could only act out how we feel. So having a good vocabulary is fundamental living with reason.

Further more, as I struggle to reply to the replies, I realize I wouldn't be thinking what I am thinking, if you did not tell me what you are thinking. Other animals may be capable of learning human language and we are getting really excited about that, but up to this point they have lived without language, without reason, on instinct and the feeling at the moment. They are almost total individualism compared to our collectivism, with centuries of thinking added to what we think today. Bottom line is we learn how to think and how to behave. We to give some thought to what we want children to learn, and how we want them and adults to behave, and finally, how are we going to teach this, and what do we do with people who do not learn our agreed upon rules of life? Anarchy is not a good thing! I started by comparing "he Holy Terrors of Munster" with Occupy. 99% of the time we do not live with anarchy, but in culturally controlled social organizations.

There is talk of opening another Occupy camp this winter. I feeling desperate to talk about this with everyone concerned, but that seems an overwhelming task. I can't talk about this with city hall, because city governments are not organized to discuss things. If I went to a city hall meeting, I would be given 5 minutes at most, to say anything, and this is only enough to time to mention what we need to discuss. If it is not on the agenda, everyone will be annoyed by an intruder taking the meeting off topic, and they will not be able to listen as they will have other thoughts running through their heads. If the homeless camp were on the agenda, so many people would say so many different things in their 5 to 3 minutes of speaking time, that again what is said will be as leaves blowing in the wind, not organized thoughts helpful to the thinking process.

Rule by reason, requires a lot of communication, a shared language, and shared values, and shared goals. It is not anarchy and we must consider this if we want humans to have good standards and to achieve things like harmony and shared goals. Ignoring the complexity of getting desired results, therefore, anarchy, is sure to get bad results.

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There is no doubt that we all have light and dark in us. No one is completely pure, as no "evil" person is completely evil. Saying this, it's all about your personal perspective and what you would deem evil or good. I'm not saying that serial killers and those twisted sick people that do things that we cannot fathom doing should be considered in a merciful manner. Yes, people have done damnable things, countless times. I do think that the evil in those people has drowned out the good, but the good will always be there, even if it is but a spark. There is no good without bad, no bad without good. Even the "best" people are capable of sickening acts of evil.

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Very interesting read about Munster...but as far as Occupy...I don't see any connection.

I don't see a connection because Occupy was a political campaign born movement...not a real movement...and...where are all the occupiers now? As soon as they weren't getting paid for camping...they left.

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The reason why we keep our dark side repressed is because it's easier that way. Originally mankind was under developed, slow, and savage. Over time it began to be obvious that being nice, and working together got you more 'stuff' and it was easier working in a team, than it was working on your own. Social contracts keep our dark side repressed because we like it easier! That's one reason at least.

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I like how you put it, Moonshine, but it does sound a bit like wishful thinking. We really have no choice but to be good anymore, unless you wish to go to prison. There are many people that would rather live out their darkest fantasies but won't because of the consequences. Without law and moral I bet most of us would go back to the primitive ways that still lurk in our minds. It would be way easier to fall to evil to accomplish things than go about it the honest way.

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I'm not sure all of us like it easier, but as a species we have a drive to survive, and cooperation, making conscious choices, allows us to do that. And sometimes acting against our own self-interest for the good of society is a survival strategy. This is one of those cases where doing the right thing may be more difficult than doing nothing at all. As I have always told me kids, sometimes there is no reward for doing the right thing, and sometimes you catch heck for it, but that you get to maintain your self-respect.

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I like how you put it, Moonshine, but it does sound a bit like wishful thinking. We really have no choice but to be good anymore, unless you wish to go to prison. There are many people that would rather live out their darkest fantasies but won't because of the consequences. Without law and moral I bet most of us would go back to the primitive ways that still lurk in our minds. It would be way easier to fall to evil to accomplish things than go about it the honest way.

There are plenty of people who would rather live out their darkest fantasies but won't because of the consequences. But, there are an awful lot of people who do and they are dissuaded none by prison. I also think that you are misjudging the 'primitive ways' that still lurk in our minds. The primitive ways were just that primitive...they consisted of hunting and eating and staying alive from both the elements and the food chain of which we were a part of. But the evilness of man I think began the way the Bible describes it...please do not misunderstand me...I don't believe the literalness of all that but there are elements of truth in all of the scriptures, bible, koran, etc. Specifically what I am talking about is the jealousy part. In the bible Cain killed his brother Able because he was jealous...and it was only when man became a social creature that the real evils of man began.

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But the evilness of man I think began the way the Bible describes it...please do not misunderstand me...I don't believe the literalness of all that but there are elements of truth in all of the scriptures, bible, koran, etc. Specifically what I am talking about is the jealousy part. In the bible Cain killed his brother Able because he was jealous...and it was only when man became a social creature that the real evils of man began.

I think you will find this talk interesting. http://ww3.tvo.org/v...jordan-peterson

A professor and clinical psychologist talks about the nature of evil. Like you, he also draws upon ancient sources like Genesis.

His description of evil is as a "warped, demonic aesthetic" which stems from selfishness and arrogance. Pretty loaded terminology from a secular academic and mental health professional.

enjoy

Edited by redhen

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Evil is what we nurture when we allow our masters' applied threats (fear of failing to be worth enslaving)

to drive us into the retreat where we believe that noble winds elevated these masters above us.

That retreat is thought, as thought is when thinking has become a voice of self.

---my last subject, today's, said she was fifteen when she vanished into her head,

and that until our session she had not realized that she had ever lived in the actual world;

or that children and animals are perpetually doing so.

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I think you will find this talk interesting. http://ww3.tvo.org/v...jordan-peterson

A professor and clinical psychologist talks about the nature of evil. Like you, he also draws upon ancient sources like Genesis.

His description of evil is as a "warped, demonic aesthetic" which stems from selfishness and arrogance. Pretty loaded terminology from a secular academic and mental health professional.

enjoy

No, he is not like me! I am not 'drawing upon ancient sources like Genesis' to explain evil. You missed my point. My point was that Evil was not a typical mindset of Primitive Humans. Primitive Humans were too busy surviving really to do much 'harm' to each other in the way that Modern Humans do. My point was that Societal Evolution, not Primitiveness, is responsible for the Evil of Humans. I don't believe in demons. My citing of Cain and Able was to that point...when Man became 'civilized' then Jealousy arose as a Human Emotion and much of the Evil of Ancient Civilizations was perpetrated by that. That was my whole point. But, since I did the taboo thing and brought the Bible into the discussion...consider Sodom and Gommorah. Sexual deviancy beyond the pale...father rapers...mother rapers...child rapers...no consideration for 'personal space'.

Primitive Humans were not like that. It is civilization that created Evil...not Primitiveness...that is my whole point.

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There is no doubt that we all have light and dark in us. No one is completely pure, as no "evil" person is completely evil. Saying this, it's all about your personal perspective and what you would deem evil or good. I'm not saying that serial killers and those twisted sick people that do things that we cannot fathom doing should be considered in a merciful manner. Yes, people have done damnable things, countless times. I do think that the evil in those people has drowned out the good, but the good will always be there, even if it is but a spark. There is no good without bad, no bad without good. Even the "best" people are capable of sickening acts of evil.

WHAT IF YOU get serial killers of serial killers like DEXTER?

I believe sometimes people can use the darkness inside of them for GOOD THINGS instead of bad things, like Dexter said his dad said to him "he might as well kill those who deserve it, and take his tendencies to KILL out on those who do not deserve to live"...

what would you say to this? Something to think about for sure.

dexter_2182960b.jpg

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Very interesting read about Munster...but as far as Occupy...I don't see any connection.

I don't see a connection because Occupy was a political campaign born movement...not a real movement...and...where are all the occupiers now? As soon as they weren't getting paid for camping...they left.

That's not quite true. First ,I don't know anyone who got paid ,but people donated money . The movement still exists,but I don't know if you noticed,they beat them .Killed their pets ,made up LIES about them to make them look bad in the press .

Fuhrer Bloomberg and his NYPD cronies abused those people,and made it so they cannot even meet in public places ,without half of them ending up bloodied ,arrested and abused ,and then lied about in the media .

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Very interesting read about Munster...but as far as Occupy...I don't see any connection.

I don't see a connection because Occupy was a political campaign born movement...not a real movement...and...where are all the occupiers now? As soon as they weren't getting paid for camping...they left.

I guess you would have to be in the camp to get the connection. Occupy started as a political movement, but it drew in the worst element. Homeless folks wanting to avoid trouble, had a territorial conflict with the Occupy people, here in Eugene, Oregon. Like the conflict was so bad, everyone agreed to move the Occupy camp to a completely different area. Like what happened at Munster, outsiders who cared nothing about anyone but themselves, moved in with their drugs and alcohol to take advantage of camping without worry of police chasing them away, and the use of out houses and free meals. When the organizers of Occupy tried to get rid of the real trouble makers, they were told, because the camp was in a public park, they couldn't throw anyone out. When the heavy rains and cold winds came it was terrible, as people lost their tempers and got real ugly and the more civilized people and access to resources stopped coming to the camp, Did you get the part that this camp was closed when someone was brutally killed? How about the part that our Occupy remained organized and is hoping to open another camp this winter?

The movement rapidly shifted from a political one to human welfare issue. I dropped out because of the resistance to leadership and more directed structure, therefore, complete anarchy. However, plenty of well meaning people who enjoy socializing hung together and continue to work city hall for a homeless camp. I doubt that anyone is being realistic about the number of homeless people who are mentally disturbed, and the number of homeless people who can't work because of being treated for cancer? Much of the suffering is the result of good intentions and a failure to accept reality. Dealing with these diverse people as though one size fits all, is insane. Everyone is not a person like you, and some of them can not be because of serious mental disorders. To relate to Munster, people came from all over, and what started as a manageable situation began unmanageable. We can not know how many of people were suffering from mental disorders, but we can know, a percentage of people do suffer mental disorder. Some of the cause is organic as in brain defect, and some mental disorders are caused by life experiences, or mental disorders were caused by mold in rye, and today intentional drug use. You may not want to sleep in the tent next to a vet suffering post trauma syndrome, when the heavy rain and cold wind has soaked everyone and tensions are high. This might not be the best for a cancer patient.. Dealing with Californians who come to find a safe refuge from the violence they dealt with, but come without the clothing nor camp gear for cold, wet weather, is a challenge when you have no resources and can't even get the money to wash and dry clothes and bedding at the laundry mat. We are talking a lot of fear, stress, pain and suffering, and the talk about evil is well intentioned, but has to come from a sheltered experience of life.

As for evil, Kahlil Gibran said "For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?" I have a memory of struggling to keep my sanity many years ago, and come out of that with empathy of for those who kill their own families. When you hear of someone who has done terrible things, you might want to think "There but for the grace of God go I". As said, there are different reasons people do terrible things. It can be a temporary situation or a life long torment as it is for those born with mental disorders. I especially have sympathy of women who marry before becoming independent, and than are tortured by their husbands, until they snap and kill their husbands. A religion that insist that Satan is real and has power over us, is not a good belief for those who find themselves in a bad situation for a long time. On the other hand, yesterday was Thansksgiving and my Thanksgiving was perfect, I don't want to end this with the ugly truths of being human. A good day with family and friends can have a terribly effect on us. When the number of good days are greater than the bad days, we do better well. But back to the bad, what do you do with people whose bad days out number the good days, and they have forgotten what is like be happy?

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I guess you would have to be in the camp to get the connection. Occupy started as a political movement, but it drew in the worst element. Homeless folks wanting to avoid trouble, had a territorial conflict with the Occupy people, here in Eugene, Oregon. Like the conflict was so bad, everyone agreed to move the Occupy camp to a completely different area. Like what happened at Munster, outsiders who cared nothing about anyone but themselves, moved in with their drugs and alcohol to take advantage of camping without worry of police chasing them away, and the use of out houses and free meals. When the organizers of Occupy tried to get rid of the real trouble makers, they were told, because the camp was in a public park, they couldn't throw anyone out. When the heavy rains and cold winds came it was terrible, as people lost their tempers and got real ugly and the more civilized people and access to resources stopped coming to the camp, Did you get the part that this camp was closed when someone was brutally killed? How about the part that our Occupy remained organized and is hoping to open another camp this winter?

The movement rapidly shifted from a political one to human welfare issue. I dropped out because of the resistance to leadership and more directed structure, therefore, complete anarchy. However, plenty of well meaning people who enjoy socializing hung together and continue to work city hall for a homeless camp. I doubt that anyone is being realistic about the number of homeless people who are mentally disturbed, and the number of homeless people who can't work because of being treated for cancer? Much of the suffering is the result of good intentions and a failure to accept reality. Dealing with these diverse people as though one size fits all, is insane. Everyone is not a person like you, and some of them can not be because of serious mental disorders. To relate to Munster, people came from all over, and what started as a manageable situation began unmanageable. We can not know how many of people were suffering from mental disorders, but we can know, a percentage of people do suffer mental disorder. Some of the cause is organic as in brain defect, and some mental disorders are caused by life experiences, or mental disorders were caused by mold in rye, and today intentional drug use. You may not want to sleep in the tent next to a vet suffering post trauma syndrome, when the heavy rain and cold wind has soaked everyone and tensions are high. This might not be the best for a cancer patient.. Dealing with Californians who come to find a safe refuge from the violence they dealt with, but come without the clothing nor camp gear for cold, wet weather, is a challenge when you have no resources and can't even get the money to wash and dry clothes and bedding at the laundry mat. We are talking a lot of fear, stress, pain and suffering, and the talk about evil is well intentioned, but has to come from a sheltered experience of life.

As for evil, Kahlil Gibran said "For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?" I have a memory of struggling to keep my sanity many years ago, and come out of that with empathy of for those who kill their own families. When you hear of someone who has done terrible things, you might want to think "There but for the grace of God go I". As said, there are different reasons people do terrible things. It can be a temporary situation or a life long torment as it is for those born with mental disorders. I especially have sympathy of women who marry before becoming independent, and than are tortured by their husbands, until they snap and kill their husbands. A religion that insist that Satan is real and has power over us, is not a good belief for those who find themselves in a bad situation for a long time. On the other hand, yesterday was Thansksgiving and my Thanksgiving was perfect, I don't want to end this with the ugly truths of being human. A good day with family and friends can have a terribly effect on us. When the number of good days are greater than the bad days, we do better well. But back to the bad, what do you do with people whose bad days out number the good days, and they have forgotten what is like be happy?

I understand better the connection you were talking about. I have memories...not good ones...of also struggling with my sanity...yet, I have no empathy for people who harm others in a violent way. None. Destroy them...that is my solution...hang them by the neck until dead for all the world to see while their 'crimes against humanity' are yet in the recent memory of the populace. Thus so doing leaves lasting impressions in the minds of many that controlling one's emotional responses is necessary and correct...and for those that cannot or willnot...a public hanging and a cheap funeral...end of problem. Simplistic? No. It worked that way for centuries until the late 1960s or so. But I digress...

The problem of homelessness is a huge problem. There are no simple answers and there really don't seem to be many complicated ones either. It is a diverse population. And they have real needs...hunger, health issues, and the list goes on...and my heart bleeds for them all. I am not a bleeding heart liberal by any means...and yet I have great compassion and empathy for the needy. And mental health issues are a great part of the homeless plight. I don't have any solutions really...do what we can to help feed them and give them shelter...and teach those who are willing to learn how to compete in the market place.

Part of the Occupy problem is the mindset promoted by the Propoganda of the Media and the Federal Government. Them vs Us. It is wrong. And the Washington Party does it at every turn...Black vs. White vs Hispanic vs Chinese and on and on....Rich vs Poor..The Beautiful vs The Ugly...The smart vs the ignorant...the Conservatives vs the Liberals...the Democrats vs the Republicans...this is not a game of anyone vs anyone else...this is real life going on here and we have an irrational and out of touch government that only seeks more power for itself as a soltuion to anything. More Power...vs...anyone that stands in their way.

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I am not convinced that our dark side IS repressed. Today, I am not certain that it is even balanced out or offset by our good side. The last decade is certainly not a time of peace, with military aggression surging across the globe.

We have institutionalized torture and killing. It seems the Dark Side rules is many ways.

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I am not convinced that our dark side IS repressed. Today, I am not certain that it is even balanced out or offset by our good side. The last decade is certainly not a time of peace, with military aggression surging across the globe.

We have institutionalized torture and killing. It seems the Dark Side rules is many ways.

Have to agree with you there. There will always be hostility and aggression, but I wouldn't consider it all evil. What you're saying about military aggression doesn't necessarily mean that evil is on the rise. These wars were to keep the evil at bay. All of the crazy news reports about the insane and almost animal acts that I read every day leads me to believe that things may be getting worse, but people have always done evil things. The difference is, we put everything in the news these days, while alot of the things that have happened in the past aren't posted all over the place. It's always easier to see the bad than the good.

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I understand better the connection you were talking about. I have memories...not good ones...of also struggling with my sanity...yet, I have no empathy for people who harm others in a violent way. None. Destroy them...that is my solution...hang them by the neck until dead for all the world to see while their 'crimes against humanity' are yet in the recent memory of the populace. Thus so doing leaves lasting impressions in the minds of many that controlling one's emotional responses is necessary and correct...and for those that cannot or willnot...a public hanging and a cheap funeral...end of problem. Simplistic? No. It worked that way for centuries until the late 1960s or so. But I digress...

The problem of homelessness is a huge problem. There are no simple answers and there really don't seem to be many complicated ones either. It is a diverse population. And they have real needs...hunger, health issues, and the list goes on...and my heart bleeds for them all. I am not a bleeding heart liberal by any means...and yet I have great compassion and empathy for the needy. And mental health issues are a great part of the homeless plight. I don't have any solutions really...do what we can to help feed them and give them shelter...and teach those who are willing to learn how to compete in the market place.

Part of the Occupy problem is the mindset promoted by the Propoganda of the Media and the Federal Government. Them vs Us. It is wrong. And the Washington Party does it at every turn...Black vs. White vs Hispanic vs Chinese and on and on....Rich vs Poor..The Beautiful vs The Ugly...The smart vs the ignorant...the Conservatives vs the Liberals...the Democrats vs the Republicans...this is not a game of anyone vs anyone else...this is real life going on here and we have an irrational and out of touch government that only seeks more power for itself as a soltuion to anything. More Power...vs...anyone that stands in their way.

A serious issue in Britain right now is the Muslim belief that evil jin possess people. This is equal to a Christian notion that demons can possess people. The problem is people with treatable mental disorders are seeing Muslims who specialize in dealing with possession, instead of the seeking medical help. I have a real negative reaction to killing people who do bad things, because I know good people can go through really bad times. In the past it was completely acceptable to kill people who behaved abnormally. I think some of us like to think, well educated and civilized people, take a more scientific approach to managing human problems. We are not being as scientific and responsive as I think we should be.

This applies to the way we deal with homeless people. Number one- you do not open a camp and let everyone in and insist no one is the leader, and everyone is free to do his own thing!!! This is insane! It is ignorant and a lot of denial of reality. Untrained security staff can make matters worse as they do not recognize the mental cases and know how to deal with them.

We have an excellent place for homeless people to gather inside or outside, have something to eat, shower, do laundry. I don't know if they have taken on case management by professionals, but they should. We also have Cahoots, which we can call instead of the police, and whereas the police escalate problems, Cahoots deescalates them. Unfortunately we are not funding them as well we fund the police. We need to shift our focus on how to deal with human problems, and be more realistic. It is hard being human, and for some humans it is harder. A civilized society is one that recognizes this, and uses science to deal with the reality. A homeless camp needs to involve Red Cross, Cahoots, the charity and mental health services. Sorry, kids, there needs to be rules and people do need to follow them.

I think Obama is pretty awesome when if comes to understanding human problems and solutions. He is coming up as a world leader in ending conflict and getting diverse people to work together. There are political and economic reasons for him not being able to give his best to the human problems that require a good economy and cooperation, but hopefully those problems are passing and he will be allowed to shine where he can do most good, getting the world to accept diversity and work together.

Edited by me-wonders

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Have to agree with you there. There will always be hostility and aggression, but I wouldn't consider it all evil. What you're saying about military aggression doesn't necessarily mean that evil is on the rise. These wars were to keep the evil at bay. All of the crazy news reports about the insane and almost animal acts that I read every day leads me to believe that things may be getting worse, but people have always done evil things. The difference is, we put everything in the news these days, while alot of the things that have happened in the past aren't posted all over the place. It's always easier to see the bad than the good.

Another difference is, we can't move west and avoid each other. I am really excited about the New Age, a time of high tech and peace, and the end of tyranny.

In the past we did resolve a lot of problems by killing. We killed individuals who flipped out, and the people on the land we wanted to take, and a big problem that Hebrews had, was the Egyptians would periodically kill their sons, in an effort to have population control, and the Spartans also periodically killed slaves to have population control. It is absolutely awesome, that today when such behavior is rising a country, the whole world is looking on and reacting. People in the US, France, Britain, etc, are appalled by what is happening in Syria, and Burma etc.. Our consciousness is not as it was in earlier times. You are right, we are using our military to stop what has become unacceptable human behavior.

Because we can not avoid each other, for the first time in human history, we have to find better solutions to our problems. Take high employment and poverty for instance. Like Munster or an Occupy camp, we can no longer have one big free for all, and ignore poverty. We are doing a p*** poor job of this, but how are we going to employ everyone around the world? Come on, let us get real about this. We have more humanity than needed, and if war is not going to be the solution, what is? Don't give me the conservative verse liberal arguments, but a scientific explanation of how to employee the masses around the world, and provide a decent standard of living for everyone. Never in the history of mankind have we had the technology we have today, and at the same time been so unable to avoid our problems. For the first time, we are backed in a corner and have to figure out how to resolve our problems, because there is no way to avoid them. There are no more islands to put our unwanted on. If we commit genocide on our neighbors, we will not have good international relationships, and no country does well without good international relationships. It is always darkest before the dawn and the New Age can not be avoided, because we can continue doing things as we did in the past.

Edited by me-wonders

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I think Obama is pretty awesome when if comes to understanding human problems and solutions. He is coming up as a world leader in ending conflict and getting diverse people to work together.

Yeah, that was a pretty awesome photo-op/fly-over he did in NJ after Sandy....and the way he is instrumental in the current Egypt/Israel/Hamas conflict..pretty frickin' awesome there too...

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Every one has negativity, and every one has feelings of inadequacy.. I experienced a very dark day a few days ago from various sources of stress. After meditating today and finding some serenity, I found how when we do not mind our passion it governs us. To be mindful is to accept and execute compassion, but not to be ruled by stress. We can act like someone else entirely different in the face of anger or strong emotion.. To find the small tide in the context of a huge and roaring storm is difficult, but in my case, the results are very rewarding..

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