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Big Bad Voodoo

Was Jesus a Buddhist monk?

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About the "proof" of Jesus being in India and studying Budhism coming from the book of Nikolai Novotich. I have read this book, and Isis Unveiled by Helena Blavatsky, that he is influenced by. Novotich is clearly telling a tall story, much easier in those days than now. This is not to say he was not in Tibet and that geneal area at the time, just that his story about Jesus is nonsense. This is best, though slowly, proved by reading these books yourselves. Isis Unveiled is in print in various languages. Novotich's book is available online as a Word document, 465 Kb, though only in Russian. I give the direct ftp link to those interested.

http://www.myshambha...usa_Christa.doc

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri

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It is the only Drowning of Dwarka that I know about...

Influenced the Hebrews? Sure, but then anyone could have done so, the Chinese, the pro-Europeans, North Africans, Persians, Greeks. Picking one is about as likely as another.

Even with a little study it is easy to learn that the Gnostic ideas of Jesus and God, came out of Greece. After Christian disciples started going there to spread the Good News. There is no history of gnostic style thought in the Hebrew history/religion, and tons of history of gnostic thought in Greece, so that part is very clear. So what you should be asking is if the Greeks were influenced by Hinduism.

Lot of Evidence for Gnostic thoughts in India predating Greece.Greeks being influenced by Hinduism/vedic concepts is a subject of debate at present,there is lot to show that Greeks were influenced by India but the conventional Historians still maintain post Alexander position.Wasn't talking about influence in Hebrew was talking about Jews migrating from India.But like all migration theories being unreliable it is better to be politically correct and just focus on similarities in my opinion.

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About the "proof" of Jesus being in India and studying Budhism coming from the book of Nikolai Novotich. I have read this book, and Isis Unveiled by Helena Blavatsky, that he is influenced by. Novotich is clearly telling a tall story, much easier in those days than now. This is not to say he was not in Tibet and that geneal area at the time, just that his story about Jesus is nonsense. This is best, though slowly, proved by reading these books yourselves. Isis Unveiled is in print in various languages. Novotich's book is available online as a Word document, 465 Kb, though only in Russian. I give the direct ftp link to those interested.

http://www.myshambha...usa_Christa.doc

If you call him a liar you are doing it on shallow grounds.You might not have liked his writing style.

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If you call him a liar you are doing it on shallow grounds.You might not have liked his writing style.

He most certainly was a liar. There is informaton about his life that seems not to be available in English. He founded a publishing house and was editor of six periodicals and newspapers. He was essentially simply a journalist/businessman, and certainly knew how to make money. If required I can supply a list of his business ventures, mostly in St Petersburg.

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Here is the relevant section of Novotich's book that deals with Issa/Jesus, going to India. It is Chapter 4 paragraph 12. First in original Russian so my translation can be verified.

"Но Исса тайно оставил родительский кров, ушел из Иерусалима и вместе с купцами отправился к Инду"

"But Jesus secretly left his parents home and, with merchants, left Jerusalem for India."

This is all he writes about this matter, nothing to back up this claim, which he writes in a quasi biblical manner. The next two chapters are full of mundane nonsense about receiving the wisdom of Buddha and improving his ability to give sermons. Any reasonably intelligent child could have made this up. He writes in such a manner as if he were copying parts of the bible and simply changing some place names to give it an Indian "Feel". He has long been regarded as a hoaxer in Russia, yet gullible minds have been seduced by his words translated into foreign languages. And it is in the foreign editions that he made money, for sensible Russians saw his trick and ignored this nonsense.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri

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I don't know if Jesus was a full blown Buddhist monk but I see obvious similarities between how Jesus taught and the way a Buddhist priest or zen master teaches, both in the style and the specific things that are said. Put that together with the story of the three wise men, which is reminiscent of how Buddhist priests go searching for the next Dali Lama when the last one dies, and with the "lost" years of Jesus in the Bible, and I think it's an intriguing possibility to say the least. I saw the BBC documentary that someone else posted and it has some interesting points as well, but there are others which discuss the same idea.

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Yes, what seems unusual about him is that what is written about him does not give him the typical "voice" of those times. He sounds "foreign". Likely we will never know about these "lost" years, unless some written evidence comes to light, something perhaps thought deliberately destroyed millenia ago...

Anyway, I prefer the theory that he was in Egypt during those years. Probably Alexandria, but perhaps he travelled about. Something about the Trinity leads me to prefer Egypt. I'm not Jewish, or know much about their book, so, do they have a Trinity?, is there a Trinity is Hinduism or any Eastern religion?

Also, my previous comments in this thread make it seem I dismiss any thought that Jesus was in India. This is not so, I simply say that Novotich's book is a hoax and should not be used as evidence.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri

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Yes, what seems unusual about him is that what is written about him does not give him the typical "voice" of those times. He sounds "foreign". Likely we will never know about these "lost" years, unless some written evidence comes to light, something perhaps thought deliberately destroyed millenia ago...

Anyway, I prefer the theory that he was in Egypt during those years. Probably Alexandria, but perhaps he travelled about. Something about the Trinity leads me to prefer Egypt. I'm not Jewish, or know much about their book, so, do they have a Trinity?, is there a Trinity is Hinduism or any Eastern religion?

Also, my previous comments in this thread make it seem I dismiss any thought that Jesus was in India. This is not so, I simply say that Novotich's book is a hoax and should not be used as evidence.

For my own part, I do dismiss any thought that Jesus was in India. The idea has been bandied about for some years and frankly smacks more of Hindu nationalism than historical reality. The fact is, if you take a close look at many of the philosophical schools and religions of that time, you're bound to find superficial similarities. This does not imply real-world connections.

Jesus was a fairly typical Jewish man for his time. In saying this, I emphasize that the form of Judaism embraced and fostered by the Temple cult was not necessarily the only form of Judaism that existed. The fact is, in Jesus' time there were numerous different sects, and their views could be quite divergent. Unrelated to Jesus are the Dead Sea Scrolls, but in studying them you will see the sect that produced them were quite different in philosophy from the Temple cult. In Jesus' time many people of the Holy Land fervently believed the Temple priests and administrators were thoroughly corrupt (the reason the Essenes branched off, for example), so many Jews were looking for a way to form a meaningful and devout relationship with Yahweh that did not necessarily involve the Temple.

There is scant evidence to tell us where Jesus was in the "lost years." Egypt? Yes, perhaps. It's plausible, in the least, but in the thriving Jewish population of Alexandria, one would think someone living there would've left at least a brief mention of Jesus having been there. Some who reside out there in the world of the fringe have professed that Jesus was actually in the Americas at this time, but I think anyone with a reasonable mind can dismiss that. As more likely as India would be than the Americas, I see no evidence to substantiate that claim, either.

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If you call him a liar you are doing it on shallow grounds.You might not have liked his writing style.

He's a lier because he never went to the temple in which he claims Issa was written in the "guestbook". I don't have a ton of time to pull up the links to the research but I have looked into this being a Buddhist by philosophy this idea intrigued me immensely until I realized it was a sham.

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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He most certainly was a liar. There is informaton about his life that seems not to be available in English. He founded a publishing house and was editor of six periodicals and newspapers. He was essentially simply a journalist/businessman, and certainly knew how to make money. If required I can supply a list of his business ventures, mostly in St Petersburg.

None of what you said qualifies him as a Lair?You are being to pressumptious in my opinion.

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He's a lier because he never went to the temple in which he claims Issa was written in the "guestbook". I don't have a ton of time to pull up the links to the research but I have looked into this being a Buddhist by philosophy this idea intrigued me immensely until I realized it was a sham.

You don't need to research the claims of one individual to establish the connections,just compare the teaching of christ as asserted by the new testament to the teaching of Yahweh in the old testament and to the teaching of Buddhism and Vedic hinduism(especially Nirguna Brhman) and you will be able to see a connection.

Marcenious did have a point that the God of the new testament is different from the God potrayed in the old testament.

"Kingdom of God is within you"-Chritianity (and hence God is within you?)

"God is manifest in all of us"-Hinduism

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None of what you said qualifies him as a Lair?You are being to pressumptious in my opinion.

That you have read him in Russian?

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That you have read him in Russian?

No i haven't hence i am relying on you to show me how he was a liar.You surely have read him in Russian i suppose.

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No i haven't hence i am relying on you to show me how he was a liar.You surely have read him in Russian i suppose.

Of course. I have provided a link to his book in Russian, and am sure the google translator can be used on this, though it never properly translates the correct sense of what is written. I have translated one of the paragraphs into proper English. He simply tells a tall story, it is obvious in the way it is written that this is so. As he does not provide facts that can be verified, to prove he is a liar will be like trying to prove that Anna Karenina is fiction long after all who lived at that time are dead and all written records have long dissapeared. Who in 2 000 years can disprove that a person named Anna Karenina existed? it will be impossible. It is a matter of common sense and the sense in which his story reads in Russian. And no, I will not translate the entire story, I have a life...

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For my own part, I do dismiss any thought that Jesus was in India. The idea has been bandied about for some years and frankly smacks more of Hindu nationalism than historical reality. The fact is, if you take a close look at many of the philosophical schools and religions of that time, you're bound to find superficial similarities. This does not imply real-world connections.

Jesus was a fairly typical Jewish man for his time. In saying this, I emphasize that the form of Judaism embraced and fostered by the Temple cult was not necessarily the only form of Judaism that existed. The fact is, in Jesus' time there were numerous different sects, and their views could be quite divergent. Unrelated to Jesus are the Dead Sea Scrolls, but in studying them you will see the sect that produced them were quite different in philosophy from the Temple cult. In Jesus' time many people of the Holy Land fervently believed the Temple priests and administrators were thoroughly corrupt (the reason the Essenes branched off, for example), so many Jews were looking for a way to form a meaningful and devout relationship with Yahweh that did not necessarily involve the Temple.

There is scant evidence to tell us where Jesus was in the "lost years." Egypt? Yes, perhaps. It's plausible, in the least, but in the thriving Jewish population of Alexandria, one would think someone living there would've left at least a brief mention of Jesus having been there. Some who reside out there in the world of the fringe have professed that Jesus was actually in the Americas at this time, but I think anyone with a reasonable mind can dismiss that. As more likely as India would be than the Americas, I see no evidence to substantiate that claim, either.

We don't even know beyond a doubt whether Historical Jesus existed.It is not the Hindu Nationalists who suggested that Jesus wen't to India.People are even saying that saint Thomas visited India.

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You don't need to research the claims of one individual to establish the connections,just compare the teaching of christ as asserted by the new testament to the teaching of Yahweh in the old testament and to the teaching of Buddhism and Vedic hinduism(especially Nirguna Brhman) and you will be able to see a connection.

Marcenious did have a point that the God of the new testament is different from the God potrayed in the old testament.

"Kingdom of God is within you"-Chritianity (and hence God is within you?)

"God is manifest in all of us"-Hinduism

OK shhh don't spread this around to much but I know the secret to this mystery. I am truly in the know here and I want to let you in on it.....

the secret to why most religions are similar and especially Buddhism and Christianity are so similar..... because good philosophy is good philosophy and anyone with a heart or half a brain and time to think it over will come to a similar understanding about how to be a good person and live a good life. So there you have it. Good philosophy is simply good philosophy. Now your in the know.

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch
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OK shhh don't spread this around to much but I know the secret to this mystery. I am truly in the know here and I want to let you in on it.....

the secret to why most religions are similar and especially Buddhism and Christianity are so similar..... because good philosophy is good philosophy and anyone with a heart or half a brain and time to think it over will come to a similar understanding about how to be a good person and live a good life. So there you have it. Good philosophy is simply good philosophy. Now your in the know.

Good philosophy is defined by concepts introduced by the philosophy,there are many different good philosophies in the world and they are not all revolving around the same concepts.Buddhism derives a majority of it's philosophy from the Nirguna Brhman concept in the Rig veda.Nirguna Brhman clearly states that God is pantheistic and singular and the best way to reach enlightenment for intellectuals can be through meditation and search for knowledge,doesn't emphasize on any idol worship or rituals and leaves it for common people as way to demonstrate their devotion (Sahguna Brhmana).

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Lmao. OK harsh. Live a good life, treat others well, forgive injustices, don't pass judgment on another, I could go on and on why I think religions are similar and why. What it boils down to though is these are answers to guide people in theright direction to live a good fruitful life. In no way does this mean Jesus learned it from somewhere/someone specific.

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Lmao. OK harsh. Live a good life, treat others well, forgive injustices, don't pass judgment on another, I could go on and on why I think religions are similar and why. What it boils down to though is these are answers to guide people in theright direction to live a good fruitful life. In no way does this mean Jesus learned it from somewhere/someone specific.

Whats your view on ISLAM-the religion of peace.http://alisina.org/ (incase you wan't to read up).

Thou shall not steal (without acknowledging atleast).

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Anyway, I prefer the theory that he was in Egypt during those years. ?

I think that is possible, as he was supposedly taken there as a child, and one could assume that his parents made friends or had family (of some kind) there. It is not too much to expect he got some education in Egypt or in Roman Mesopotamia. Though I suspect since he was training to be a Rabbi, he likely did not travel very long or very far, as that training started when they were a boy and was constant till they became a grown adult.

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Whats your view on ISLAM-the religion of peace.http://alisina.org/ (incase you wan't to read up).

Thou shall not steal (without acknowledging atleast).

I think it is not a religion of peace, unless you purposefully ignore that later revelation supercedes earlier revelations. If you ignore that, then earlier peaceful traditions and passages can be implemented, and Muslims can live side by side with everyone else. But if you don't ignore that later passages supercede and go with those later passages, then Islam demands that any method, including, but not limited, to war, MUST be used to convert the Infidels and other Peoples of the Book. MUST. So, all these Muslims that I work with here at Intel, who are not bowing toward Mecca each day, or who eat pork, or who drink liquor, or who don't bother to try to Convert me, in any way.... are bad Muslims. Just as many, many Christians and Jews are bad Christians and Jews. Jesus taught love and helping others, especially those who are evil, or diseased, or sinful, yet many Christians shun those who are sinful and demand they keep away, or demand the police get those people away. There are so many religious people who practice their faith wrong.

That is why there are Peaceful Muslims... because they are practicing their faith wrong.

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I think it is not a religion of peace, unless you purposefully ignore that later revelation supercedes earlier revelations. If you ignore that, then earlier peaceful traditions and passages can be implemented, and Muslims can live side by side with everyone else. But if you don't ignore that later passages supercede and go with those later passages, then Islam demands that any method, including, but not limited, to war, MUST be used to convert the Infidels and other Peoples of the Book. MUST. So, all these Muslims that I work with here at Intel, who are not bowing toward Mecca each day, or who eat pork, or who drink liquor, or who don't bother to try to Convert me, in any way.... are bad Muslims. Just as many, many Christians and Jews are bad Christians and Jews. Jesus taught love and helping others, especially those who are evil, or diseased, or sinful, yet many Christians shun those who are sinful and demand they keep away, or demand the police get those people away. There are so many religious people who practice their faith wrong.

That is why there are Peaceful Muslims... because they are practicing their faith wrong.

I agree with your views.But my motive was to show Aus that all religions are not the same or don't have the same philosophies/concepts.

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Hello Umers,

In the past when Lama dies Buddhist monks looks for the sign in the sky for reincarnation of Lama. When they find reincanated Lama then they took that child and teach him -at ages where he could be thought properly.

Were Biblical Magi buddhists monks? So is Jesus raised in India?

We dont know much about Jesus early life except gnostic documents.

Nicolaj Notovič Russian Cossack officer ,spy and journalist, studied Buddhism in Tibet and wrote book: Unknown life of Jesus.

In his book he said that Buddist at Tibet wrote that "divine child is born in Judea-Isa .Isa came to India at age 14 and study Buddhism and leave at age of 29 and set on the way to Jerusalem. Where he teach people and later was killed." In short.

http://en.wikipedia....colas_Notovitch

As I heard Buddha also healed people,walk on water,feed mass of hungry people...so...

Also there are legends among people in India about Jusasa who was sheperd and healer.(as I heard)(?)

I don't think Jesus would have necessarily have to had been raised in India, to have these same principles be applied. I did read this according to an article in the Buddhist scriptures, the Tipitaka (as found on the internet...) :Dhttp://dhammaprotect...g-of-jesus.html

‘When Buddha was traveling and living in this world, there was an old Brahman priest who wore white robes who asked the Buddha, “How will all men and all Brahmins continue in their merit-making so as to escape the results of sin?” The Buddha answered, “Even though all of you give alms according to the 5 precepts, the 8 precepts, the 10 precepts, or the 227 precepts for 9 trillion years and you raise your hands and offer yourselves as a burnt offering, or you pray 5 times a day, you will still not escape the results of your sins. If you do this every day, your merit gained will only be equal to the smallest strand of hair of an unborn infant which is extremely small. You shall not enter heaven’s doors.” The old Brahman priest asked further, “What are we all to do to be saved?” The Buddha answered the old Brahman priest, “The results of sin and karma are very great, heavier than the sky, thicker than the earth, and so high that it would be like an angel dusting the corner-posts of the temple compound with a cloth post that are 18 inches high - dusting them one time per year - until the posts were worn down to the ground. When the posts are worn down, that’s how long it would take to end your sins.”

The Buddha said further, “I have given up my high position and entered the priesthood. I considered that even though I am good, I would have only a very small amount of merit at the end of the year. If I was given this same amount of merit for 100,000 epochs and live 10 more lifetimes, I would not be saved from sin’s results even once.

The old Brahman priest asked further, “So what should we all do?” The Buddha answered, “Keep on making merit and look for another Holy One who will come and help the world and all of you in the future.”

Then the old Brahman priest asked, “What will the characteristics of the Holy One be like?” The Buddha answered him, “The Holy One who will keep ??? the world in the future will be like this: in the palms of his hands and in the flat of his feet will be the design of a disc, in the side will be a stab wound; and his forehead will have many marks like scars. This Holy One will be the golden boat who will carry you over the cycle of rebirths all the way to the highest heaven (Nirvana). Do not look for salvation the old way; there is no salvation in it for sure. Quit the old way. And there will be a new spirit like the light of a lightning bug in all of your hearts and you will be victorious over all your enemies. Nobody will be able to destroy you. If you die, you will not come back to be born in this world again. You will go to the highest heaven (Nirvana).” ’

found this link as well: Did Jesus go to India?

http://www.answering...ya/notovich.htm

that's not to say I support it, HEY I didn't even READ it.... the title just seems to fit your theory...

Edited by SpiritWriter

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I don't think Jesus would have necessarily have to had been raised in India, to have these same principles be applied. I did read this according to an article in the Buddhist scriptures, the Tipitaka (as found on the internet...) :Dhttp://dhammaprotect...g-of-jesus.html

‘When Buddha was traveling and living in this world, there was an old Brahman priest who wore white robes who asked the Buddha, “How will all men and all Brahmins continue in their merit-making so as to escape the results of sin?” The Buddha answered, “Even though all of you give alms according to the 5 precepts, the 8 precepts, the 10 precepts, or the 227 precepts for 9 trillion years and you raise your hands and offer yourselves as a burnt offering, or you pray 5 times a day, you will still not escape the results of your sins. If you do this every day, your merit gained will only be equal to the smallest strand of hair of an unborn infant which is extremely small. You shall not enter heaven’s doors.” The old Brahman priest asked further, “What are we all to do to be saved?” The Buddha answered the old Brahman priest, “The results of sin and karma are very great, heavier than the sky, thicker than the earth, and so high that it would be like an angel dusting the corner-posts of the temple compound with a cloth post that are 18 inches high - dusting them one time per year - until the posts were worn down to the ground. When the posts are worn down, that’s how long it would take to end your sins.”

The Buddha said further, “I have given up my high position and entered the priesthood. I considered that even though I am good, I would have only a very small amount of merit at the end of the year. If I was given this same amount of merit for 100,000 epochs and live 10 more lifetimes, I would not be saved from sin’s results even once.

The old Brahman priest asked further, “So what should we all do?” The Buddha answered, “Keep on making merit and look for another Holy One who will come and help the world and all of you in the future.”

Then the old Brahman priest asked, “What will the characteristics of the Holy One be like?” The Buddha answered him, “The Holy One who will keep ??? the world in the future will be like this: in the palms of his hands and in the flat of his feet will be the design of a disc, in the side will be a stab wound; and his forehead will have many marks like scars. This Holy One will be the golden boat who will carry you over the cycle of rebirths all the way to the highest heaven (Nirvana). Do not look for salvation the old way; there is no salvation in it for sure. Quit the old way. And there will be a new spirit like the light of a lightning bug in all of your hearts and you will be victorious over all your enemies. Nobody will be able to destroy you. If you die, you will not come back to be born in this world again. You will go to the highest heaven (Nirvana).” ’

found this link as well: Did Jesus go to India?

http://www.answering...ya/notovich.htm

that's not to say I support it, HEY I didn't even READ it.... the title just seems to fit your theory...

There is no concept of sin in Buddhism and Hinduism.Karma is the philosophy.Committing sin and going to hell is not a concept of Buddhism or Hinduism.Going to heaven is not the motive of these religions as opposed to Abrhamic religions but being enlightened while alive is the focus,and escaping the cycle of rebirths(Nirvana-liberation) in the material world is the reward of enlightenement.Oneness with the superlative consciousness is the what enlightenment stands for in these religions.

Good samiritans going to heaven and people breaking the divine commandments going to hell is a Abrhamic religion concept(since specific commandments are given from God),the hindu philosophy states that heaven and hell are here on earth and your conduct in this world determines whether you are living in heaven or hell figuratgively speaking.

Buddha from what we know about him and his philosophy would be the last person in the world to suggest that a messiah (again an alien concept in buddhism and hinduism) will be sent to die for the sin of the whole world,the logic of making others bear your burdens would never have been taught by Buddha even if the person bearing the burden is the son of God.Also Buddha being the enlightened one would not be giving details of body marks of the coming prophet,he did not suscribe to miracles brought about by daily prayer and asked his followers to discard all the traditional rituals that had crept in ,in Hinduism to follow the true path to enlightenement though he never said that the old way is wrong....lol.But a lot of stories of miracles attributed to Buddha have crept in buddhist mythology,probably later additions from ignorant zealous converts.

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Well I'm convinced. India is the origin of everything - , including Christianity, view from 10:00 minutes onwards.

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