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THE MATRIX

5 Founding Fathers whose Skepticism would

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To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Unlike many of today’s candidates, the founders didn’t find it necessary to constantly wear religion on their sleeves. They considered faith a private affair. Contrast them to former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (who says he wouldn’t vote for an atheist for president because non-believers lack the proper moral grounding to guide the American ship of state), Texas Gov. Rick Perry (who hosted a prayer rally and issued an infamous ad accusing President Barack Obama of waging a “war on religion”) and former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum (whose uber-Catholicism leads him to oppose not just abortion but birth control).

There was a time when Americans voted for candidates who were skeptical of core concepts of Christianity like the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus and the virgin birth. The question is, could any of them get elected today? The sad answer is probably not.

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I know this one ...

"I would sooner believe that two Yankee professors lied, than that stones fell from the sky"

~ Thomas Jefferson, 1807 after hearing an eyewitness report of falling meteorites.

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I think at least some of the GOP would have Washington throwing his wooden teeth at them in a fit of pique frankly.

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There is nothing wrong with using religion as a guide, the problem is when it ends in bigotry and hypocrisy. Which is what mixing religion with politics always ends up with in the US.

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I like what Ron Paul had to say about how his Christian up bringing would effect his administration. I cant remember word for word, but it was something to the effect of giving him conviction to take his oath of office as serious as possible.

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The matrix seems to be on an anti Christianity rant today. What's wrong, man? Did it suddenly occur to you that America and the world would just be better off without Christians?

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I think at least some of the GOP would have Washington throwing his wooden teeth at them in a fit of pique frankly.

You do know they were not wooden... yes?

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Look at it this way, if they are ranting on about their religion at least I know what they are about. I do wish they would keep their religion out of politics. I think religion is fine but I don't want it running our government or making our laws. Newt is a fine one to talk about morals.

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The matrix seems to be on an anti Christianity rant today. What's wrong, man? Did it suddenly occur to you that America and the world would just be better off without Christians?

What and let Christianity get away with all the hypocrisy, corruption, fear and war mongering, intolerance, and oppression by hiding behind the good book in order to continue to justify doing those things. Hell no!

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The First Amendment and other parts of the US Constitution require the government to be NEUTRAL in matters of religion. Freedom of religion, and freedome from religion.

Religion must stay IN the church house, and OUT OF the state house.

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What and let Christianity get away with all the hypocrisy, corruption, fear and war mongering, intolerance, and oppression by hiding behind the good book in order to continue to justify doing those things. Hell no!

0bama is doing all that right now without any holy book.

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You do know they were not wooden... yes?

They are Walrus tusk weren't they? Or Hippopatmus tooth, one of the two.

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I think the whole slavery and wiping out the Natives issues would have also caused them problems in modern elections :P

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I think at least some of the GOP would have Washington throwing his wooden teeth at them in a fit of pique frankly.

Do you think he would be happy with the Democrat's? I believe our founders would be wondering WTH happened to the plan they left us. And the freedoms. And the small, non-intrusive government.

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Do you think he would be happy with the Democrat's? I believe our founders would be wondering WTH happened to the plan they left us. And the freedoms. And the small, non-intrusive government.

Ahh but Washington wasn't a Democrat was he? He'd be roundly appalled at the sorry lot of them in all parties, but to se what the Republicans have become would sicken him I think.

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Ahh but Washington wasn't a Democrat was he? He'd be roundly appalled at the sorry lot of them in all parties, but to se what the Republicans have become would sicken him I think.

I am afraid he was not a Republican either, that party was founded in 1854, or 55 years after he gave up eating. He was an independent.

The parties in his time were the Federalists (extinct) and the Democratic Republicans (also ceased to exist quite a while ago).

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Washington would be horrified at our entire establishment.

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Washington would be horrified at our entire establishment.

So would Madison and the rest of them. :(

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I'm not sure they would be that shocked by the state of things today. I think they anticipated it. That's why they left behind clear instructions for the people to take back control if ever the government got out of hand.

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So would Madison and the rest of them. :(

"Why is there a slave in the oval office? Take him out and hang him as an example to the other slaves!"

The American Founding Fathers were great men for their time (for the most part) but by today's standards they've be horrible b*******. ;)

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Posted (edited)

Yes, of course Corp!

We humans today represent the epitome of moral strength, eh? :no:

In that slavery was practiced in that day however, your point is correct.

But in their defense, the document they created, a political document, was eventually corrected to outlaw slavery.

Edited by Babe Ruth

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Every generation has it's moral problems. I'm just pointing out that while the Founding Fathers did put out strong and important documents that were very enlightened for its time, they also supported slavery based on race, driving the Natives from their land, having only men have any political say, and annexing their neighbours by force if need be. So when it's implied that they'd somehow made the problems of today all better is a bit silly. Plus there's the whole technology advances. Franklin would get rid of the various terrorism laws, but God help you if he discovers internet porn. :P

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Every generation has it's moral problems. I'm just pointing out that while the Founding Fathers did put out strong and important documents that were very enlightened for its time, they also supported slavery based on race, driving the Natives from their land, having only men have any political say, and annexing their neighbours by force if need be. So when it's implied that they'd somehow made the problems of today all better is a bit silly. Plus there's the whole technology advances. Franklin would get rid of the various terrorism laws, but God help you if he discovers internet porn. :P

One thing is for sure, Washington would have the ban on drugs reversed in no time. The hemp he used to (have) plant(ed) was not to make ropes or sacks.

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Every generation has it's moral problems. I'm just pointing out that while the Founding Fathers did put out strong and important documents that were very enlightened for its time, they also supported slavery based on race, driving the Natives from their land, having only men have any political say, and annexing their neighbours by force if need be. So when it's implied that they'd somehow made the problems of today all better is a bit silly. Plus there's the whole technology advances. Franklin would get rid of the various terrorism laws, but God help you if he discovers internet porn. :P

Yes, I agree. In addition to slavery, we treated the red man horribly. Are we barbarians? By many standards, yes indeed.

Are we more barbaric today than in 1850? By many standards, yes indeed.

We are humans, not angels. :unsure2:

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