US: Black boxes in all new cars from 2015

[Still Waters]

A bill already passed by the Senate and set to be rubber stamped by the House would make it mandatory for all new cars in the United States to be fitted with black box data recorders from 2015 onwards.

Section 31406 of Senate Bill 1813 (known as MAP-21), calls for “Mandatory Event Data Recorders” to be installed in all new automobiles and legislates for civil penalties to be imposed against individuals for failing to do so.

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[conspiracybeliever]

The ultimate Big Brother scenario would be a system whereby every driver had to get de facto permission from the state to drive each time they get behind the wheel, once it had been determined from an iris scan that they were good citizens who have paid all their taxes and not misbehaved.

[Ashotep]

Looks like the value of a used car is going to go way up.

[Corp]

So like planes they'll be able to check the data and gather information in case of a crash right? Doesn't sound like a big deal.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Corp

[Ashotep]

It may not sound like a big deal now but just wait.

[Drayno]

The idea of cars recording you at all times is scary. That's what I call invasion of privacy. Of course, I'm sure there are cameras where I can't see them. And there are cameras in traffic; but to have a black box "recorder" in your car - that truly is Orwellian. It may be for the "safety" of people, as it would be so advertised, but let people look after themselves. If we can't handle the responsibility of looking after ourselves, then we don't deserve this Republic.

[Mantis914]

So like planes they'll be able to check the data and gather information in case of a crash right? Doesn't sound like a big deal.

You're kidding, right? You honestly think that's all they will be used for? I'm with Hilander on this one... one used car for me please.

How about when you get cut off in traffic and utter a curse. Maybe by that time, cursing will be deemed illegal too, just like in Demolition Man. Then you'll need to take anger management classes and be issued one demerit on your driving record, insurance rates will go up or maybe even cancel you, it'll be broadcast on the Global Facebook that's keeping tabs on all of us, you won't get hired because you are a risk at job interviews, ... I could go on and on...

As John Spartan said in the movie, "Why don't you just shove a leash up my a@#?"

[+and-then]

Gone will be the days of "but officer, I wasn't speeding, honest!"

Progressive insurance has a similar system already that it uses to "help" it's customers with their rates. A USB drive that tracks info about driving habits. I haven't investigated it but I suspect that you have to allow them to download info after any accident so they know exactly how fast, when did you brake etc. The black boxes will be a boon to law enforcement and especially insurance companies, I think.

[calaf]

Looks like I'll be driving my '49 MG a lot more.

[msmike1]

If this does not disturb you in a big way, then you need to take your head out of the sand and open your eyes. This is something that I never saw coming but now that I read it, it really comes as no surprise with this administration.

Mike

[Corp]

You're kidding, right? You honestly think that's all they will be used for? I'm with Hilander on this one... one used car for me please.

How about when you get cut off in traffic and utter a curse. Maybe by that time, cursing will be deemed illegal too, just like in Demolition Man. Then you'll need to take anger management classes and be issued one demerit on your driving record, insurance rates will go up or maybe even cancel you, it'll be broadcast on the Global Facebook that's keeping tabs on all of us, you won't get hired because you are a risk at job interviews, ... I could go on and on...

As John Spartan said in the movie, "Why don't you just shove a leash up my a@#?"

I see you've avoided the slipperly slope and decided just to jump off a cliff.

[F3SS]

It may not sound like a big deal now but just wait.

Hmm, imagine come inspection time once a year, at least that's how it is here, a black box law is enforced that the inspecting mechanic must hook up to your box and pull all data and send it in to the state. The state could then see every location you've been. All speed limits will be known for said locations and so will your speed. They'll know if you rolled through a stop sign. They'll know if you're hard on gas. You'll then get yearly fines in the mail for traffic violations and even penalties for "wasting" gas if you are smashing the pedal. It sound extreme, and it is. Yet it's entirely possible. Especially if Obama remains in office. Don't tell me it's too much effort to go through all this data. Computer programmers could easily write software to make it automatic. Violation found: Send fine. Dont even need humans until its time to arrest you for not paying up. Sure there are some good uses for black boxes but big government types won't be able to resist new ways to restrict your freedom and take your money.

Ps,

I'm not advocating reckless driving but even the most cautious drivers could be found guilty of dozens of violations a year if it gets that technical.

[Bama13]

Hmm, imagine come inspection time once a year, at least that's how it is here, a black box law is enforced that the inspecting mechanic must hook up to your box and pull all data and send it in to the state. The state could then see every location you've been. All speed limits will be known for said locations and so will your speed. They'll know if you rolled through a stop sign. They'll know if you're hard on gas. You'll then get yearly fines in the mail for traffic violations and even penalties for "wasting" gas if you are smashing the pedal. It sound extreme, and it is. Yet it's entirely possible. Especially if Obama remains in office. Don't tell me it's too much effort to go through all this data. Computer programmers could easily write software to make it automatic. Violation found: Send fine. Dont even need humans until its time to arrest you for not paying up. Sure there are some good uses for black boxes but big government types won't be able to resist new ways to restrict your freedom and take your money.

Ps,

I'm not advocating reckless driving but even the most cautious drivers could be found guilty of dozens of violations a year if it gets that technical.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't tickets go to the driver and not the owner? So will the black boxes know who is driving?

It is the same with the cameras at traffic lights. They take a picture of your tag if you run the light. Then they send you a ticket in the mail. If I ever got one the first thing I'd say is that I wasn't driving. Unless they have a picture showing me driving they can pound sand. Of course this is easy for me to say since I don't drive much anymore.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Bama13

[Taun]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't tickets go to the driver and not the owner? So will the black boxes know who is driving?

It is the same with the cameras at traffic lights. They take a picture of your tag if you run the light. Then they send you a ticket in the mail. If I ever got one the first thing I'd say is that I wasn't driving. Unless they have a picture showing me driving they can pound sand. Of course this is easy for me to say since I don't drive much anymore.

The problem there is that then your insurance rates will go way up for letting other drivers use your car... That or they will still find you negligent for letting your car get used to break the law (speed, etc)...

Danged if you do danged if you don't... I'm with It's For Real on this ... Way too much of a chance for government/corprate abuse on this one...

[rashore]

I don't know how red light tickets work everywhere... But I know how they work in Chicago- and they send the ticket to the owner of the vehicle. If one wants to contest the ticket, they have to go in person to the courthouse and talk to the court about getting something done about the ticket. Pretty much all tickets stick to your insurance no matter who was driving.

[F3SS]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't tickets go to the driver and not the owner? So will the black boxes know who is driving?

It is the same with the cameras at traffic lights. They take a picture of your tag if you run the light. Then they send you a ticket in the mail. If I ever got one the first thing I'd say is that I wasn't driving. Unless they have a picture showing me driving they can pound sand. Of course this is easy for me to say since I don't drive much anymore.

They should go to the driver. But like the traffic light cameras, they would fine the owner. In turn jamming the system with appeals and disputes wasting lots of time and lots of money. But that's what our elected officials do best.... Waste.

[preacherman76]

This is about carbon taxing your miles. Like they have been talking about doing for awhile now.

[F3SS]

This is about carbon taxing your miles. Like they have been talking about doing for awhile now.

That's the word I was looking for when I said fines for wasting gas. Thanks.

[Farmer77]

So like planes they'll be able to check the data and gather information in case of a crash right? Doesn't sound like a big deal.

Doesnt sound like a big deal? This is the very definition of a BIG DEAL.

I can't believe people actually think like you (not trying to be insulting honestly).How is this not a big deal? In what world is this even remotely OK? Why should anyone, let alone the government, have that kind of access to personal information? Why can no one see the big picture?

Corp's post is exactly why America as our founders intended is dead now and forever.

[+and-then]

I think that standing up and refusing to pay the so called carbon tax could be the beginning of a true tax revolt that's been a long time coming. If it becomes a reality I expect that they will start with a very small tax to establish it's validity and then when no one protests...boom! If the people get together and balk at the outset then this is one that might be defeated.

[Corp]

Doesnt sound like a big deal? This is the very definition of a BIG DEAL.

I can't believe people actually think like you (not trying to be insulting honestly).How is this not a big deal? In what world is this even remotely OK? Why should anyone, let alone the government, have that kind of access to personal information? Why can no one see the big picture?

Corp's post is exactly why America as our founders intended is dead now and forever.

Big picture? People in this thread are inventing the "big picture". There's not mention of these devices being able to record sound, but we have people claiming that the government will fine them for swearing. There's no mention of insurance companies putting in policy changes, but everyone is sure rates will go up and they'll be forced to sign off their rights because I guess insurance companies work for the government now or something. There's claims that this data will be used to ticket minor infractions and there's no evidence that they will be, or if it's practical, or if the technology works that way. The bottom line is that people are massively overacting to this. Again we have UM members taking a fishy government bill that might be abused and screaming that all their rights have disappeared. News flash these devices have been in millions of cars since 2003.

Well yeah black people not slaves, Natives not being murdered, women being treated like people...yep the founding father's America is dead and gone. Serious yes they were great men of their time, but not objects of worship who would magically make everything better if they were around today.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/254152/senate_passes_bill_requiring_black_boxes_in_all_new_cars.html

Here's another source other than the heavily bias Infowars. They point out that these black boxes are already being installed in cars and, shock of shocks, that totalitarian state hasn't appeared. It also points out that the government can't get information when ever it feels like, though does note the possibility of abuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder

Here's information on the actual device itself. They've been in cars for years now. It also shows how these devices have been used to convict drivers who have killed people with their cars that might have otherwise gotten off free.

[Mantis914]

What do slaves, natives murdered, and women treated as people have to do with this topic? So you don't trust the founding fathers of the US of A but you'd trust the current administration with open arms? This doesn't affect you anyway, your tag says Ottawa but I sure hope they bring this crap to Canada also so I can tell you it's no big deal...

[rashore]

Just for some interesting reading about event data recorders...

Slate, Aug 2003

CNN, Aug 2006

Consumer Reports, March 2010

Most vehicles from the mid 90's on have a good chance of already having a black box in it. If you have airbags, you have one. If you have Onstar or any sort of system that reports you in or calls you when you have an accident, you have one. If you have the owners manual, look up event data recorder.

In 2005 over half the cars on the road were estimated to have recorders. In 2006, NHTSA issued a rule to standardize EDR information by 2013, but car manufactures were not required to install them.

Here's a nice Q&A link from iihs.org, Nov 2010

Section 31406 seems to be taking the next step in mandating EDR's in all cars by 2015 and giving a lot of verbage to who owns the data, or can access it, and all that. Not surprising since the standardization is supposed to be done by next year.

[+OverSword]

So like planes they'll be able to check the data and gather information in case of a crash right? Doesn't sound like a big deal.

You are either a troll or a _______________________

(insert derogatory here)

[wittyusernamefailed]

While I will not dispute that the mandating black box tech in all new cars could be misused by the government; I will point out that the people screaming about this being the end of all things are also walking around with their cellphones, iphones, gps systems, as well as using an internet connection that is monitored by the government, and using a computer that is about as secure as a sieve. ( and lets not forget that this site is based in the UK which basically took 1984 as a guidebook if downtown London is any indication) Long story short, black boxes in cars while a security issue, are probably the least of the ways government is going all Big Brother on us.

Edited April 23, 2012 by wittyusernamefailed