Solar Myth and the Jesus Story

[White Crane Feather]

Miracles of Jesus the Sun

1) Jesus is said to have cured a number of men from blindness. ~ In ancient times when it got dark and the moon was not present, it was pitch black. Every man would be 'blind' until the morning when the SUN would cure the blindness.

2) Jesus is said to have walked on water. ~ I can look at the SUN's reflection in a pond or lake or even the sea and it would appear to be 'walking' as the day grew longer. (sky walker for the star wars fans). Or, as described astronomically in the OP as when the Sun crosses the Milky Way.

3) And finally Jesus turns water into wine. ~ It is the Sun that causes water to evaporate and form clouds which eventually come back to earth as rain and nourishes the grape vine. We know it is the Sunlight that causes the grape to grow,trapping sunlight. During the religious ceremonies wine was actually believed to become transformed into the blood of Christ. "Ego eimi I ampelos" meaning "I am the vine" is one of numerous religious wine references to Christ found in ancient frescos and religious icons.

"The energy of life, electromagnetic energy, that spark of life, came from the Sun. We are actually solar energy. We are what we eat. Take wine for example, the grape that absorbs sunlight through the leaves of the vine is now bottled energy. And because you consume it, it becomes part of you, therfore you are sunlight. The Sun is the Father of life." ~ Crichton Miller ... edit by me

In the Jesus story we then have the Last Supper, where Jesus and his twelve disciples, a reference to the twelve zodiac months of the year, recline and eat the harvest. (Mark 14:12-26; Matthew 26:17-30; Luke 22:7-38) This is the natural time of year to have a huge feast. In America we celebrate Thanksgiving and have a huge feast of food. We eat the flesh of the fruit—figuratively the flesh of Jesus, who personifies the sun which make the fruit grow; and we drink wine—the blood of the grapes, figuratively the blood of Jesus, who personifies the sun which made the grapes grow. Without this food we would perish.

When we participate in the Communion ritual in church we eat bread, figuratively the body of Jesus, and drink wine (or grape juice), figuratively the blood of Jesus, because food and drink are literally the elements which sustains life. It is the Sun which makes plants grow so we can have food to eat and wine to drink. We personify the Sun as Jesus and then give thanks to Jesus (the Sun) for our food and drink. The harvest is our salvation. http://www.solarmythology.com/lessons/solarmyth15.htm

"For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." ~ Yoda

You do realize you are using a lot information that was unavailable to the people of that time.. Right?

I think you still got it backwards. Things are compared the to our natural environment as metaphors not literal transmutations.

If I remember correctly the force was a real power associated with some sort of blood born organism called midicolorians.

[Diablo Blanco]

You do realize you are using a lot information that was unavailable to the people of that time.. Right?

I think you still got it backwards. Things are compared the to our natural environment as metaphors not literal transmutations.

If I remember correctly the force was a real power associated with some sort of blood born organism called midicolorians.

What information was not available? Please specify

No comparisons as metaphors, only the telling of natural phenomena through ALLEGORY.

Prior to Yoda saying this, (Empire Strike Back), Luke was using the Force to levitate stones and trying to levitate his starcruiser from the swamp. I suspect the Force being used(or implied) was electro-magnetic, (the sun is electromagnetic), as 2 like poles repel. The swamp being one pole, then yoda using the force changes the pole of the starcruiser to the same pole thus creating a levitational effect.

[White Crane Feather]

What information was not available? Please specify

No comparisons as metaphors, only the telling of natural phenomena through ALLEGORY.

Prior to Yoda saying this, (Empire Strike Back), Luke was using the Force to levitate stones and trying to levitate his starcruiser from the swamp. I suspect the Force being used(or implied) was electro-magnetic, (the sun is electromagnetic), as 2 like poles repel. The swamp being one pole, then yoda using the force changes the pole of the starcruiser to the same pole thus creating a levitational effect.

If it were electromagnetic then surely the technological advanced society would not consider it an "out dated religion" they would have easily been able to quantify and explain the force. Your Still searching for connections. With enough creativity you make Abraham Lincoln look like a myth of a sun god.

Water evaporating to form clouds. Is just one example of something that would not have been known. People writing about Jesus would not have had anything like that in mind. The sun makeing reflections in water so Jesus being the sun walked on water.....really? That's quite a leap.

[+Paranoid Android]

I have provided much more evidence than a few passages such as "I am the light of the world". And I seriously doubt you have read any of my follow up posts. You can reject the claim as much as you want but the information is here and available for readers to draw their own conclusions. Besides that, what I have posted here seems much more plausible than the pretended history of a suicide messiah. If this christ emulated his life after the solar cycle, which if he were real it seems as though thats what he did, than there really is nothing special or original about the man. The 'word of god' is clearly the work of men.

I've read every post of yours, and I find the links you draw arbitrary and superficial (at best). As Seeker mentions a couple of posts later, with enough creativity you can probably make out Abraham Lincoln to be an allegory of the solar cycle.

I respect your Right to believe whatever you wish, I just happen to believe other than you. The "word of God" to me is clearly the word of God.

~ Regards,

[Englishgent]

Hi Hazrus.

You quote that ''the wheel on the celtic cross was obviously designed to spin''

Why is it so obvious? It is a design. A pattern used for that particular cross. Just because it happens to be round does not make it obvious that it was designed to spin.

Sometime I think people look far too deeply into these things and then come up with an answer to fit their theory.

I have a theory about crystal balls. They were made spherical because they used them to play marbles. It;s obvious isn't it?

[Diablo Blanco]

Water evaporating to form clouds. Is just one example of something that would not have been known. People writing about Jesus would not have had anything like that in mind. The sun makeing reflections in water so Jesus being the sun walked on water.....really? That's quite a leap.

I'm pretty sure if a person back then witnessed a water puddle drying up in the hot sun, it is possible they made the connection? Even if they did not they did know it took the Sun to grow the grapes.

As far as the sun reflecting in water, if it is easier for you to believe that a man walked upon the water, or that noah was the only person who had a boat, or perhaps jonah living in the belly of a fish for three days, by all means believe it.

I'll leave with this excerpt from Mark Twain's book Letters from the Earth:

That innocent Bible tells about the Creation. Of what -- the universe? Yes, the universe. In six days!

God did it. He did not call it the universe -- that name is modern. His whole attention was upon this world. He constructed it in five days -- and then? It took him only one day to make twenty million suns and eighty million planets!

For three hundred years, now, the Christian astronomer has known that his Deity didn't make the stars in those tremendous six days; but the Christian astronomer does not enlarge upon that detail. Neither does the priest.

That is "quite a leap."

Edited May 17, 2012 by Hazrus

[Diablo Blanco]

I respect your Right to believe whatever you wish, I just happen to believe other than you. The "word of God" to me is clearly the word of God.

~ Regards,

Fair enough.

[Diablo Blanco]

Hi Hazrus.

You quote that ''the wheel on the celtic cross was obviously designed to spin''

I did not intend to quote that as if I came up with the idea. The editor function wasn't working properly, however I did post a link where the author gives great detail to explain his theory and how he believes the Dixon Relics that were found in the Great Pyramid were actually a cross and plumbline used to survey the site for its construction and that it was probably the archetype for the celtic cross. Many pics I have seen of a celtic cross do look as if the wheel was designed to spin. IMO

Edited May 17, 2012 by Hazrus

[White Crane Feather]

I'm pretty sure if a person back then witnessed a water puddle drying up in the hot sun, it is possible they made the connection? Even if they did not they did know it took the Sun to grow the grapes.

As far as the sun reflecting in water, if it is easier for you to believe that a man walked upon the water, or that noah was the only person who had a boat, or perhaps jonah living in the belly of a fish for three days, by all means believe it.

I'll leave with this excerpt from Mark Twain's book Letters from the Earth:

That is "quite a leap."

I don't believe Jesus walked on water.

"William wallace is seven feet tall, shoots lightning bolts from his eyes, and fire balls from his ass" -mel gibson in Braveheart

You still think I'm a Christian Just because I can't agree with your sun analysis. It really is not supported at all... Mostly just creative speculation.

I think there are many things people got wrong about Jesus including and probably most of all the Christians.

And no... The wouldn't have made the connection. They had no concept of what evaporation was or ment. There was no correlation between clouds and water other than rain which was from god. Not some processes whereby the puddle took energy from the sun then turned into clouds to one day fall as rain. They did not even have concepts of energy.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Seeker79

[Diablo Blanco]

I don't believe Jesus walked on water.

"William wallace is seven feet tall, shoots lightning bolts from his eyes, and fire balls from his ass" -mel gibson in Braveheart

You still think I'm a Christian Just because I can't agree with your sun analysis. It really is not supported at all... Mostly just creative speculation.

I think there are many things people got wrong about Jesus including and probably most of all the Christians.

And no... The wouldn't have made the connection. They had no concept of what evaporation was or ment. There was no correlation between clouds and water other than rain which was from god. Not some processes whereby the puddle took energy from the sun then turned into clouds to one day fall as rain. They did not even have concepts of energy.

You don't believe jesus walked on water, I don't believe he ever existed.

I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not but appologies for assuming you were christian.

I think there are many things people got wrong about Jesus including and probably most of all the Christians.

Yet you believe jesus was a real person?...this is why you fail. (yoda)

They did not even have concepts of energy.

What, do you think everybody was an idiot back then?

“It is the Thunderbolt that steers the Universe” Heraclitus, 5th Century B.C.E.

Heraclitus seems like an early advocate for Electric Universe Theory, no? Thats 500 yrs. before the alleged birth of jesus, so i'm guessing the writers of his myth had concepts of energy, even if you don't think so.

Cheers,

[White Crane Feather]

You don't believe jesus walked on water, I don't believe he ever existed.

I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not but appologies for assuming you were christian.

Yet you believe jesus was a real person?...this is why you fail. (yoda)

What, do you think everybody was an idiot back then?

“It is the Thunderbolt that steers the Universe” Heraclitus, 5th Century B.C.E.

Heraclitus seems like an early advocate for Electric Universe Theory, no? Thats 500 yrs. before the alleged birth of jesus, so i'm guessing the writers of his myth had concepts of energy, even if you don't think so.

Cheers,

I tend to lean towards a man named Jesus might have existed I more of an agnostic on the issue. Regardless if the story itself is true or not, certainly some man said what he said. So in that sense he certainly was a man. His life minus the legendary exaggeration is simple enough. No real reason not to think he nay have existed. There are plenty of other gurus and teachers just like him that exist today.

I also think folks like you so insistent that he did not exist are simply anti Christian that search far and wide for evidence of your beliefs.

[Diablo Blanco]

So if Cain is the "good" one, associated with the sun which is also God, why does God frown upon Cain's offering in the first place and punish him for the death of his brother? In no way does the story paint Cain as something positive, but you're associating him with something that should have been very positive. Like angels coming down from heaven playing trumpets kind of positive, the way Jesus's birth was (described).

The rejection of Cain's grain offering (agricultural goddess and fertility, recognition of the religion's surrounding Israel) and the acceptance of Abel's (roasted meat) offering was a symbol of change to come in Israel from matriarchy and female base religion, to patriarchy, preisthood and cultic temple worship and sacrifices. The story is not true, the message was clear. Women are now property and men own them, no matter what the "pagan" nation's surrounding practice or respect in the mysteries of the feminine and fertility.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Original-Sun-of-God&id=93709

Not every word of the bible is potent with esoteric meaning or Sun worship. Some dogma supports certain cultural and social traditions and to aid in governance of its citizenry.

[Diablo Blanco]

For those who have found this thread interesting and would like further reading on this subject I am recomending a few links to books you can read online for free:

http://www.masseiana.org/Dupuis/origin_of_all_religious_worship.htm#I ~ The Origin of all Religious Worship by Charles Francois Dupuis

http://www.masseiana.org/volney.htm ~ The Ruins by Constantin Francois Volney

http://www.solarmythology.com/books/hill/astralworship.htm Astral Worship by J.H. Hill

http://www.solarmythology.com/devilspulpit22.htm The Devil's Pulpit by Rev. Robert Taylor

[Diablo Blanco]

Birthday of John The Baptist

Traditionally, Commemorated on June 24th

Esoterically, astrologically John The Baptist is a mirrored image of Jesus. The birth date of the mythical Jesus is on December 25th, which is 3 days after the Winter Solstice. The mythical John was born June 24th, which is 3 days after the Summer Solstice. So the birthday of John The Baptist, at June 24th, was placed so as to signal when the sun reaches the position of the Summer Solstice. ~ Malik H. Jabbar

At noon each year on or about June 21-22 the Sun reaches its highest position in the sky in the Northern Hemisphere, and this recurring event is known as the Summer Solstice. When this occurrence takes place the Sun is in its zenith at the Tropic of Cancer, and from the most ancient times the constellation of Cancer has always been known as “The Northern Gate,” or as “The Gate of Men.”

For three days during the solstice period there seems to be no movement of the Sun in relation to Earth, and then the minutes of daylight slowly begin to shorten - an initial decrease of light. It is not coincidence that one of the two Johns in Christian legends is honored at this time. Thus in Christian gospel John the Baptist is portrayed as having said, “He must increase and I must decrease.” We should remember here that the other John, “Saint John” is feasted on December 27th, right after the winter solstice, and represents the cycle of increasing light in the Northern Hemisphere. It was an open secret among the Pagans that the name John when used in gospel accounts always personified some aspect of light. Indeed the Pagans through the Dark Ages guardedly spoke of the year as being divided between the two Johns rather than openly acknowledge the periodic occurrence of the solstices. The reason for this was that the church considered such wisdom of nature to be “blasphemous” and would be retaliated against with brutal severity.

John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease.”

[+Paranoid Android]

Birthday of John The Baptist

Traditionally, Commemorated on June 24th

Esoterically, astrologically John The Baptist is a mirrored image of Jesus. The birth date of the mythical Jesus is on December 25th, which is 3 days after the Winter Solstice. The mythical John was born June 24th, which is 3 days after the Summer Solstice. So the birthday of John The Baptist, at June 24th, was placed so as to signal when the sun reaches the position of the Summer Solstice. ~ Malik H. Jabbar

At noon each year on or about June 21-22 the Sun reaches its highest position in the sky in the Northern Hemisphere, and this recurring event is known as the Summer Solstice. When this occurrence takes place the Sun is in its zenith at the Tropic of Cancer, and from the most ancient times the constellation of Cancer has always been known as “The Northern Gate,” or as “The Gate of Men.”

For three days during the solstice period there seems to be no movement of the Sun in relation to Earth, and then the minutes of daylight slowly begin to shorten - an initial decrease of light. It is not coincidence that one of the two Johns in Christian legends is honored at this time. Thus in Christian gospel John the Baptist is portrayed as having said, “He must increase and I must decrease.” We should remember here that the other John, “Saint John” is feasted on December 27th, right after the winter solstice, and represents the cycle of increasing light in the Northern Hemisphere. It was an open secret among the Pagans that the name John when used in gospel accounts always personified some aspect of light. Indeed the Pagans through the Dark Ages guardedly spoke of the year as being divided between the two Johns rather than openly acknowledge the periodic occurrence of the solstices. The reason for this was that the church considered such wisdom of nature to be “blasphemous” and would be retaliated against with brutal severity.

John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease.”

Small problem with that theory. "Traditionally" Jesus' birthday may be celebrated on December 25. But the earliest Christians did not celebrate it then (ie, the ones who originally worshipped Christ in the 1st, 2nd and even 3rd Century AD). The decision to officially mark mark Jesus' birth as December 25 was motivated by a desire to appeal to the pagans who celebrated other festivals, but if they keep the same worship just change the name to "Jesus" then Christianity can assimilate a whole new demographic. Jesus' birth was clearly NOT December 25, but at least several months earlier (most likely sometime between July and September).

So going on to John the Baptist, he is noted in the gospels to have been conceived six months before Jesus. By "traditional" dating that would make the birth around June 24. However, as noted above, the Christians who originally worshipped Christ did not celebrate the birth in December. Therefore they likewise did not celebrate John's birthday in June. The "traditional" date presented in this hypothesis is in fact totally wrong.

On a wider note, much of the arguments used to support Jesus as a solar myth are equally flawed. A link you provided earlier in the thread quoted the well-known Acharya S, and in that part of the argument for Jesus' myth is that Jesus started his Father's work at age 12, and the sun reaches its zenith at 12 o'clock (midday). However, the ancients did not count from midday as we do. They count from sunrise, so midday would actually be about the sixth hour. And yes, this was just one of many examples I could have used to show my point - the entire argument is flawed and doomed to failure from the start.

~ Regards, PA

Edited May 29, 2012 by Paranoid Android

[Diablo Blanco]

The decision to officially mark mark Jesus' birth as December 25 was motivated by a desire to appeal to the pagans who celebrated other festivals, but if they keep the same worship just change the name to "Jesus" then Christianity can assimilate a whole new demographic. Jesus' birth was clearly NOT December 25, but at least several months earlier (most likely sometime between July and September).

Therefore they likewise did not celebrate John's birthday in June.

Most likely motivated by the desire to decieve. (the invented story of jesus must have been unappealing, unmiraculous, unbelievable?)

So jesus birthday was sometime between july and september? HaHa! You don't even have a definitive birthdate of your prophesied savior so the church claims that of the pagans Sun worship?! And you claim what I posted was flawed? What a joke. And john's birthday either, yet it coincides with the summer soltice of the pagans. I wonder what else they found neccesary to "change" in order to fill the pews and offering plates ($$$) on SUNday.

Please inform me then just what is it that John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease supposed to mean then if it is not referring to the solstice? (Rhetorical, please spare me a follow up response about an email you sent to a somebody who said a something or another agreeing with you).

As I said in an earlier post, "the word of god" is the work of men...thanx for supporting this claim.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Hazrus

[+Paranoid Android]

Most likely motivated by the desire to decieve. (the invented story of jesus must have been unappealing, unmiraculous, unbelievable?)

So jesus birthday was sometime between july and september? HaHa! You don't even have a definitive birthdate of your prophesied savior so the church claims that of the pagans Sun worship?! And you claim what I posted was flawed? What a joke.

We don't know exactly when Jesus was born, we just know that on December 25 it would have been way too cold for shepherds to be out at night tending the flocks. The suggestion of December 25 as Jesus' birthday was added several centuries after the Jesus movement began. If there's a joke here, I cannot see it.

Please inform me then just what is it that John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease supposed to mean then if it is not referring to the solstice? (Rhetorical, please spare me a follow up response about an email you sent to a somebody who said a something or another agreeing with you).

Rhetorical question or not, I intend to answer you, and I have no desire to post emails. I'll use the Bible. The answer hails back to John chapter 1. John the Baptist is out in the desert declaring that the Lord will be upon them soon. In John 1:21-29, it describes people coming and asking John who he was and he says that he came to prepare the way of the Lord, and the next day (verse 29), Jesus walks down the road and he declares Jesus to be that person. Then in verse 30 he says: This is he of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.' John was a herald of Jesus, one who came to prepare the way, but when the day came for his preparations to cease, he would become less important, and that person (Jesus) would become more important - he must increase, but I must decrease.

It is not referring to the solstice. As has already been said, Jesus was not even associated with December 25 until centuries after the Jesus movement began, and the answer above is far more plausible than a solstice reference written several centuries before anyone thought to link Jesus' birth with late December

~ Regards,

Edited May 30, 2012 by Paranoid Android

[Diablo Blanco]

It is not referring to the solstice. As has already been said, Jesus was not even associated with December 25 until centuries after the Jesus movement began, and the answer above is far more plausible than a solstice reference written several centuries before anyone thought to link Jesus' birth with late December

~ Regards,

Still seems more likely an ALLEGORY for the Solstice to me, but then again i'm not brainwashed by the church.

From an earlier post you made:

The decision to officially mark mark Jesus' birth as December 25 was motivated by a desire to appeal to the pagans who celebrated other festivals, but if they keep the same worship just change the name to "Jesus" then Christianity can assimilate a whole new demographic.

And eventually those who didn't 'fall in line' with christianity were MURDERED and there possesions seized by the church, isn't that correct?

[+Paranoid Android]

Still seems more likely an ALLEGORY for the Solstice to me, but then again i'm not brainwashed by the church.

Implying that I am brainwashed by the church? Honestly, I'm just stating facts. The Jesus movement existed for centuries before Jesus was associated with a December birthday. John 3:30 was written centuries before people associated either Jesus or John the Baptist with any solstice worship.

From an earlier post you made:

And eventually those who didn't 'fall in line' with christianity were MURDERED and there possesions seized by the church, isn't that correct?

Not until several hundred years after Jesus. The first three centuries of Christianity were peaceful. So peace-loving in fact that it prompted the Emperor Julian in the 3rd Century AD to complain that Christianity was growing because everyone knew how benevolent they were in helping those in need regardless of racial background, making Rome appear heartless because they could not take care of even their own. However, when the 4th Century rolled around, Christianity was adopted as the "State religion". Even then it wasn't an immediate escalation from peace to conqueror. It was a gradual process, and as the church (now a political organisation and not just a grass roots movement) gained power, so inevitably did its leaders crave more and more power. And as time passed, extreme measures were implemented to gain converts, including murder.

It's not the proudest time in our history, but that does not take away from the fact that its early followers (several centuries worth of them) were peaceful and loving of others, and worshipping their deity not as a solar myth but as a part of the godhead. The solar myth is, for lack of a better word, a myth. But then again, I'm not brainwashed by people such as Acharya S

~ Regards,

[Diablo Blanco]

The solar myth is, for lack of a better word, a myth. But then again, I'm not brainwashed by people such as Acharya S

~ Regards,

And conversely the jesus myth is well, a MYTH. Funny thing is you probably think all the other gods (zeus, ra, hathor, thor, hercules etc.) are myth as well but can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your savior is a myth too! (and shares attributes or characteristics of many of them.)

Another funny thing is how you nit-pick the Acharya quote when it was only one small paragraph in the sea of posts I have provided. Sure their is controversey with her, and I haven't read much of her work, however, i'm sure you have read the entire fictional book of god.

I have posted more things from the likes of Dupuis, Volney, Hill, and Jabbar, and by the way Acharya and the SUN are real, they exist. When was the last time you saw god or jesus? Let me guess, "IN A DREAM"

[+Paranoid Android]

And conversely the jesus myth is well, a MYTH. Funny thing is you probably think all the other gods (zeus, ra, hathor, thor, hercules etc.) are myth as well but can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your savior is a myth too! (and shares attributes or characteristics of many of them.)

Another funny thing is how you nit-pick the Acharya quote when it was only one small paragraph in the sea of posts I have provided. Sure their is controversey with her, and I haven't read much of her work, however, i'm sure you have read the entire fictional book of god.

I have posted more things from the likes of Dupuis, Volney, Hill, and Jabbar, and by the way Acharya and the SUN are real, they exist. When was the last time you saw god or jesus? Let me guess, "IN A DREAM"

Notice that I said "people such as Acharya S." Acharya wasn't alone in my criticism, you can add those authors you quoted, as well add in Massey, Graves, Freke and Gandy, Kuhn and several others to your list, they are all equally poor historians. I picked on Acharya because she is the most prominent of them, and as credible as all of them (ie, not credible at all).

[White Crane Feather]

And conversely the jesus myth is well, a MYTH. Funny thing is you probably think all the other gods (zeus, ra, hathor, thor, hercules etc.) are myth as well but can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your savior is a myth too! (and shares attributes or characteristics of many of them.)

Another funny thing is how you nit-pick the Acharya quote when it was only one small paragraph in the sea of posts I have provided. Sure their is controversey with her, and I haven't read much of her work, however, i'm sure you have read the entire fictional book of god.

I have posted more things from the likes of Dupuis, Volney, Hill, and Jabbar, and by the way Acharya and the SUN are real, they exist. When was the last time you saw god or jesus? Let me guess, "IN A DREAM"

Why dont you address what pa just told you. Christian scriptures were written centuries before being associated with celestial bodies and cycles. Your evidence is still just creative conjecture. Why not find some pre constantine writings that mention the Christian religion as a sun religion like egypts RA. Clearly the Christians do not directly associate their god with the sun. They will tell you god created the sun.

There are some Roman writings referring to the Jesus religion as basically a jewish cult of some guy that we killed a long time ago.

In scholarly history evidence of something is determined if there are cross references to that something from different sources. Are there any sources that speak of christianity as a sun worshiping religion?

Why is it so hard for the Jesus haters out there to come to terms with some guy starting a cult that evenchually had some very talented marketeers as followers? Drop all the miricule working that is commonly enough prescribed to dead leaders, and Jesus's wasn't at all that different from the other would be massahias. Even today we see them. Who knows maby one day David Koresh will be worshiped. I'm sure the branch divisdians already have a few miricles he performed.

[Diablo Blanco]

and as credible as all of them (ie, not credible at all).

This is your opinion. I feel the same way about authors who claim jesus was real, especially those who claim the bible as literal history. Not credible in the slightest...IMO

[Diablo Blanco]

Why dont you address what pa just told you.

There are no contemporary writings about jesus during his lifetime. This is because he's non-existent. PA only belives there were because his priest/mind controller/email buddy told him so.

Clearly the Christians do not directly associate their god with the sun.

Um, duh! If they openly stated it, I wouldn't be here trying to explain it.

[+Paranoid Android]

This is your opinion. I feel the same way about authors who claim jesus was real, especially those who claim the bible as literal history. Not credible in the slightest...IMO

The difference is that I'm not starting threads on this site trying to prove to others that what I believe is right. I freely acknowledge that I have placed my faith in these texts to be accurate. I am not trying to prove to you that they are correct. In contrast, you are doing just that, trying to prove your hypothesis about the solar myth. The aforementioned December 25 being the example we are discussing at the moment to link them together. I would like to ask you to think on something for a moment - the writings of the New Testament mostly are written within the 1st Century AD, and all 27 New Testament texts were completed by roughly the mid-2nd Century AD. In line with this, the Jesus movement began mid-1st Century AD.

In contrast to this, could you answer a question for me, please? When was it that Jesus' birth began to be associated with December 25? I don't need an exact date, a rough century ball park figure would do just as well. Thanks