Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
markdohle

Gentle whisper

30 posts in this topic

Gentle whisper

The reason I often fail to live out my beliefs, comes about when I stop thinking and pondering what they actually are. We are either growing deeper in understanding, or becoming less attuned to our own souls and also the gentle whisper of the living Spirit that lives within, who is one with us and wishes us ever fuller life. The words of Jesus can never be fully understood, they need to lived. The call to love is deep and the self knowledge that is needed to grow in love, comes from failure and a new beginning, over and over again. To fail, is a call to begin anew, the pondering (prayer) that is needed to take ever deeper root in the call of the Eternal -One.

Ideology

When ones path of any sort becomes closed,

it then becomes an ideology,

which is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentle whisper

The reason I often fail to live out my beliefs, comes about when I stop thinking and pondering what they actually are. We are either growing deeper in understanding, or becoming less attuned to our own souls and also the gentle whisper of the living Spirit that lives within, who is one with us and wishes us ever fuller life. The words of Jesus can never be fully understood, they need to lived. The call to love is deep and the self knowledge that is needed to grow in love, comes from failure and a new beginning, over and over again. To fail, is a call to begin anew, the pondering (prayer) that is needed to take ever deeper root in the call of the Eternal -One.

Ideology

When ones path of any sort becomes closed,

it then becomes an ideology,

which is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

Thoughtful comments and IMO true.

In a non christian (or more universal) context,

It is important to emphasize that spiritual development is not fundamentally an intellectual or a faith-driven enterprise. Enlightenment is not attained by reading and studying, nor by fervent belief in something outside yourself. The development of higher states of consciousness primarily comes down to regularly and systematically experiencing deeper values of the Self and then integrating that into one’s daily life. The specific experiences an individual has on this journey, will necessarily vary, based on the spiritual tradition and practice one follows, but also based upon your own personal history and tendencies.

http://www.anhglobal.org/en/node/591

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Obi Wan would say, Mark, "Use the force." And what did Skywalker have to do? Uh-huh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentle whisper

The reason I often fail to live out my beliefs, comes about when I stop thinking and pondering what they actually are. We are either growing deeper in understanding, or becoming less attuned to our own souls and also the gentle whisper of the living Spirit that lives within, who is one with us and wishes us ever fuller life. The words of Jesus can never be fully understood, they need to lived. The call to love is deep and the self knowledge that is needed to grow in love, comes from failure and a new beginning, over and over again. To fail, is a call to begin anew, the pondering (prayer) that is needed to take ever deeper root in the call of the Eternal -One.

Ideology

When ones path of any sort becomes closed,

it then becomes an ideology,

which is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

Yes failure and triumph over that failure ... Its part of our saveing grace isn't it, many days I wish I were not human... Then others I get high off of the fact that I exist. Go figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes failure and triumph over that failure ... Its part of our saveing grace isn't it, many days I wish I were not human... Then others I get high off of the fact that I exist. Go figure.

Mankind has no saving grace. Love doesn't exist. It is what people call money, sex, and power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Mankind has no saving grace. Love doesn't exist. It is what people call money, sex, and power.

I hate this form of optimistic thinking. It just gives people false hopes about the goodness of mankind. Get real. :devil:

LOL. It must be tiring, living in a world perceived like this.

I live in a world where; money, power, and certainly sex, have no currency or value at all.

Love not only exists; in a very real sense it is all that exists, and all that human beings need for survival. Given love between people, everything else is provided, via expressions of that love..A child only survives, via the expression of its parent's love, as one example.

In a family, clan, tribe, town, city, or nation where everyone loves each other, no one goes hungry, unsheltered, unwanted, or uncared for. And while our failures in these areas are glaring, so too are our successes. Around the world, millions of adult humans survive on the love of other humans.

Where once love, caring, and compassion, was only extendable to those in our family tribe or clan, today i can extend the practical power of love across the world, as a postitive aspect of globalisation.

Edited by Mr Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate this form of optimistic thinking. It just gives people false hopes about the goodness of mankind. Get real. :devil:

LOL. It must be tiring, living in a world perceived like this.

I live in a world where; money, power, and certainly sex, have no currency or value at all.

Love not only exists; in a very real sense it is all that exists, and all that human beings need for survival. Given love between people, everything else is provided, via expressions of that love..A child only survives, via the expression of its parent's love, as one example.

In a family, clan, tribe, town, city, or nation where everyone loves each other, no one goes hungry, unsheltered, unwanted, or uncared for. And while our failures in these areas are glaring, so too are our successes. Around the world, millions of adult humans survive on the love of other humans.

Where once love, caring, and compassion, was only extendable to those in our family tribe or clan, today i can extend the practical power of love across the world, as a postitive aspect of globalisation.

Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is. I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion. I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty. It's not even passively ok to look at. I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited. Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability. Love does not factor into survivability. There is physical strength in numbers. The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability. Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species. Animals naturally do this. Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself. In fact, that is my purpose in life. To find something worth saving in humanity. I've yet to find anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is. I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion. I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty. It's not even passively ok to look at. I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited. Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability. Love does not factor into survivability. There is physical strength in numbers. The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability. Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species. Animals naturally do this. Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself. In fact, that is my purpose in life. To find something worth saving in humanity. I've yet to find anything.

I honestly cant say if this is caused by the environment you live in or by something in you, which would cause you to see any social environment in that way. It is not my place to feel sorry for you, but i certainly wouldn't want to walk in your shoes. In fact I would refuse to.

Personally, I have found that ALL; beliefs, attitudes, emotions, etc., are something we can choose and create for ourselves, through; will, intellect, training and effort. Happiness is a construct of the human mind, and anyone can construct it. On the other hand, there is increasing evidence that some people have a hapiness gene which gives them a greater propensity towards happiness, and others do not. In your case (joke here) it almost sounds like you have a misery gene. :devil:

On the other hand societies have measurable indicators of health and well being. I live in many layers of society, from my nuclear family, out through my wide and multi generational extended family, into a comunity; where people are almost unfailingly, good kind caring and loving. Love is probably the greatest single factor in human survivability. Almost every person i know who has committed suicide (not caused by chemical/clinical depression) has lacked love as a major component in their life. Sometimes that lack has been real, sometimes just perceived.

Love is in part a chemical reaction evolved in humans to cause them to stay together long enough to raise a child. But in humans love, like many other things, is a construct of language, emotion, symbolism and reality. So, for example, when i met my wife i was "hit by the thunderbolt" I was in love with her on all the above levels from chemical through emotional to intellectual love . However, like all human constructs love has a pattern and requires wiork and effort . Discipline, planned behaviour, self knowledge comparative awareness etc allow me to create a love for my wife which transcends time, aging and everything else. ANd so today I love her as passionately fiercely protectively madly etc as i did when i met her 40 years ago. My parents created the same form of love. SO did hers.

But love can be created and genuinely felt for any and all human beings. I hold a genuine but differnt love for all humans. Thats why i care for them, try to help them, take them into my home feed clothe etc people from all around the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thoughtful comments and IMO true.

In a non christian (or more universal) context,

http://www.anhglobal.org/en/node/591

I agree, it is the day to day living it out my friend.

peace

mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes failure and triumph over that failure ... Its part of our saveing grace isn't it, many days I wish I were not human... Then others I get high off of the fact that I exist. Go figure.

The ups and downs of life :ph34r: , we all have them :yes:

Peace

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Obi Wan would say, Mark, "Use the force." And what did Skywalker have to do? Uh-huh.

Does that mean I get a cool saber :sk:geek::sk ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mankind has no saving grace. Love doesn't exist. It is what people call money, sex, and power.

Hmmmm not for everyone my friend. There are those that simply care about being with their family.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is. I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion. I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty. It's not even passively ok to look at. I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited. Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability. Love does not factor into survivability. There is physical strength in numbers. The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability. Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species. Animals naturally do this. Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself. In fact, that is my purpose in life. To find something worth saving in humanity. I've yet to find anything.

Love certainly is an instinct for survivability as MW pointed out. Animals love aswell. What you are missing is transcendence. Emergent properties often transcend their original functions to become something far greater. Love may be born of instincts, but this capacity transcends those basic genes and instincts. Again as MW pointed out in great numbers the web of synergy that develops is incredible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mankind has no saving grace. Love doesn't exist. It is what people call money, sex, and power.

If your declarations are a reflection of your life, you have my deepest sympathy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your declarations are a reflection of your life, you have my deepest sympathy.

True, he seems to have gone through a horrid time, yet, as he says and I belive him, he tries to live a life of compassion and empathy for others. We all run deep, healing takes a life time.

peace

mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly cant say if this is caused by the environment you live in or by something in you, which would cause you to see any social environment in that way. It is not my place to feel sorry for you, but i certainly wouldn't want to walk in your shoes. In fact I would refuse to.

Personally, I have found that ALL; beliefs, attitudes, emotions, etc., are something we can choose and create for ourselves, through; will, intellect, training and effort. Happiness is a construct of the human mind, and anyone can construct it. On the other hand, there is increasing evidence that some people have a hapiness gene which gives them a greater propensity towards happiness, and others do not. In your case (joke here) it almost sounds like you have a misery gene. :devil:

On the other hand societies have measurable indicators of health and well being. I live in many layers of society, from my nuclear family, out through my wide and multi generational extended family, into a comunity; where people are almost unfailingly, good kind caring and loving. Love is probably the greatest single factor in human survivability. Almost every person i know who has committed suicide (not caused by chemical/clinical depression) has lacked love as a major component in their life. Sometimes that lack has been real, sometimes just perceived.

Love is in part a chemical reaction evolved in humans to cause them to stay together long enough to raise a child. But in humans love, like many other things, is a construct of language, emotion, symbolism and reality. So, for example, when i met my wife i was "hit by the thunderbolt" I was in love with her on all the above levels from chemical through emotional to intellectual love . However, like all human constructs love has a pattern and requires wiork and effort . Discipline, planned behaviour, self knowledge comparative awareness etc allow me to create a love for my wife which transcends time, aging and everything else. ANd so today I love her as passionately fiercely protectively madly etc as i did when i met her 40 years ago. My parents created the same form of love. SO did hers.

But love can be created and genuinely felt for any and all human beings. I hold a genuine but differnt love for all humans. Thats why i care for them, try to help them, take them into my home feed clothe etc people from all around the world.

Heh, misery is something I don't have. That would indicate that the horrors of the world creating me. I've a humurous mentality, so misery is as far from me as possible. If mankind died and I was the only living being left, would I be in misery? No. I do have a love for all humans, hence my altruistic personality. I work to be a droplet of good in an ocean of evil, trying to creat ripples. But you are right, it is the society I live in, and since I've been all over the world, literally, I can say it is the same for everyone. The difference is I see reality, while most other people choose to see what they want to see. It's similar to a person who is on drugs that thinks they're seeing flowers and rainbows when they're walking through a war torn area. There are many jokes in media for this where you see a person walking through mayhem with a stupid smile on their face oblivious to what is going on around him. A good example of this is where pictures of war are rewarded, while pictures of a nude body is shunned. I suppose in an abstract way, I can understand why one would refuse to do walk in the shoes of one who sees.

You are right in saying that "love" is a chemical reaction in the brain. Science has found that to be true, which automatically makes human "love" to be a construct of something as feeble as air. Which proves my statement of love not existing, literally nothing more than fantasy. Admittedly, the moment you used the term "nuclear family" I immediately understand your standpoint and realize nothing I could ever say would make you understand. You were raised in a place to where you never had a need so you never had to search. The old verse of "one doesn't know what they don't have until they don't have it anymore" comes to mind. I see this on even a small scale, where a person who was brought up rich doesn't understand the plight of one brought up poor. Incidentally, this is why movie stars get in trouble all the time.

As for familial love, that has been proven to be an animal instinct, no different than your dog would care for its pups. So I guess you're saying dogs are the same as humans, as well as any animal. Heh, I have said before that humans are animals, so guess that fits well with this. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If one is seeing only the bad and not the good, then something is out of balance. Or there's a failure to see things clearly. Sometimes the world around us does suck, but not always. Go out at dawn and watch the sunrise, visit a food bank and talk to the volunteers, talk to a charity about how generous people are with their money, visit someone who spends time & money rescuing animals, check Green Peace of the Sierra Club, etc. There's lots of good people walking around this planet. It doesn't take a lot of see that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If one is seeing only the bad and not the good, then something is out of balance. Or there's a failure to see things clearly. Sometimes the world around us does suck, but not always. Go out at dawn and watch the sunrise, visit a food bank and talk to the volunteers, talk to a charity about how generous people are with their money, visit someone who spends time & money rescuing animals, check Green Peace of the Sierra Club, etc. There's lots of good people walking around this planet. It doesn't take a lot of see that.

I agree with you my friend. I see a great many good loving people in the world. Do we fail at times, yes of course, but we forgive and move on. I am humbled by many of the gentle souls I meet everyday. I don't think I am living in illusion LOL.

Peace my friend

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If one is seeing only the bad and not the good, then something is out of balance. Or there's a failure to see things clearly. Sometimes the world around us does suck, but not always. Go out at dawn and watch the sunrise, visit a food bank and talk to the volunteers, talk to a charity about how generous people are with their money, visit someone who spends time & money rescuing animals, check Green Peace of the Sierra Club, etc. There's lots of good people walking around this planet. It doesn't take a lot of see that.

My eyes are damaged so I cannot take bright light, hence I hate day time. The light gives me a headache. I've gone to some of those places, and after a time, the masks crack, and the real person emerges. I'm disillusioned to those people. I'm starting to think it's the country I live in. Many people tell me that other countries are not like mine. I've never been to an oriental country, and that is where most people point me to. Perhaps I should look there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is. I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion. I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty. It's not even passively ok to look at. I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited. Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability. Love does not factor into survivability. There is physical strength in numbers. The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability. Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species. Animals naturally do this. Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself. In fact, that is my purpose in life. To find something worth saving in humanity. I've yet to find anything.

I have children they thrive in love, yet survive based on our ability to meet their basic needs, just as you suggest. Love has it place for sure, but it doesn't cover everything.

I agree with Mark, your verbiage may be raw and even stern, but it is obvious you have compassion and I wish you the best on finding a way to make things better, we sure can use it! Thank you, for hanging in there in spite of how dismal things have gotten.

Edited by Sherapy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My eyes are damaged so I cannot take bright light, hence I hate day time. The light gives me a headache. I've gone to some of those places, and after a time, the masks crack, and the real person emerges. I'm disillusioned to those people. I'm starting to think it's the country I live in. Many people tell me that other countries are not like mine. I've never been to an oriental country, and that is where most people point me to. Perhaps I should look there.

You can try it. But generally we take our problems with us. I've dealt with chronic severe depression for years and still struggle with it yet i find a lot of beauty in the world and in people I meet. I hope you can find something worth saving or helping to grow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I hope you find joy in the world that others so commonly find. Because life can be like a great big party with all of your favorite people there. I'm hanging out here for as long as I can.

Edited by Beany

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My eyes are damaged so I cannot take bright light, hence I hate day time. The light gives me a headache. I've gone to some of those places, and after a time, the masks crack, and the real person emerges. I'm disillusioned to those people. I'm starting to think it's the country I live in. Many people tell me that other countries are not like mine. I've never been to an oriental country, and that is where most people point me to. Perhaps I should look there.

You won't find what you are looking for their either. The place you need to look is sonewhere else entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very wise, Seeker. So many of us wander around looking for that place, that person, that thing, that will bring us happiness, when all along, we carry it within ourselves. Once we accept that, and the responsibility that goes with it, we can really get somewhere!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, misery is something I don't have. That would indicate that the horrors of the world creating me. I've a humurous mentality, so misery is as far from me as possible. If mankind died and I was the only living being left, would I be in misery? No. I do have a love for all humans, hence my altruistic personality. I work to be a droplet of good in an ocean of evil, trying to creat ripples. But you are right, it is the society I live in, and since I've been all over the world, literally, I can say it is the same for everyone. The difference is I see reality, while most other people choose to see what they want to see. It's similar to a person who is on drugs that thinks they're seeing flowers and rainbows when they're walking through a war torn area. There are many jokes in media for this where you see a person walking through mayhem with a stupid smile on their face oblivious to what is going on around him. A good example of this is where pictures of war are rewarded, while pictures of a nude body is shunned. I suppose in an abstract way, I can understand why one would refuse to do walk in the shoes of one who sees.

You are right in saying that "love" is a chemical reaction in the brain. Science has found that to be true, which automatically makes human "love" to be a construct of something as feeble as air. Which proves my statement of love not existing, literally nothing more than fantasy. Admittedly, the moment you used the term "nuclear family" I immediately understand your standpoint and realize nothing I could ever say would make you understand. You were raised in a place to where you never had a need so you never had to search. The old verse of "one doesn't know what they don't have until they don't have it anymore" comes to mind. I see this on even a small scale, where a person who was brought up rich doesn't understand the plight of one brought up poor. Incidentally, this is why movie stars get in trouble all the time.

As for familial love, that has been proven to be an animal instinct, no different than your dog would care for its pups. So I guess you're saying dogs are the same as humans, as well as any animal. Heh, I have said before that humans are animals, so guess that fits well with this. ;)

Both of us live in a reality of our own perceptions. I chose to crete a reality of love. But as I also pointed out physical realities differ for individuals. I do not create the real environmental factors around me, although i can chose to respond to them as a I wish. And yes of course the background I came from, shaped me. I was taught how to love, by people who were capaple of love .

Humans are evolved animals with some determined behaviours. ALso we are affected by genetic make up which determines some potentials But the difference is our self aware sapience Because we have this we can choose ANY response to life . Love does not exist in non self aware animals First they dont have longuistic skills to even conceive of the concept of love Second they are programmed without choices ANd love is something which must be learned and chosen. Human love is NOT anything like anything experienced by animals This has been proven mby moden neuroscience and other disciplines. Human love is ONLY made possible by our self awareness, the nature of our thinking and the way it is inextricably linked to our language and the way we create and attach formal constructs and embed them in our thoughts.

Ps Yes i tink the nuclear family is a very important human construct which is basically the format for our modern civilizations. If we lose it and the benefits it creates then we will be in very serious trouble; and there are signs of this ocuuring all around the western world.

But before the nuclear family there was the extended family, clan, and tribe. Modern people havee none of these and so create artificial ones fromm street gangs to football clubs.

My own nuclear family has, for decades, taken in and cared for those without a loving family of their own. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails, but always it teaches people the power of love, and shws them that they are worthy of love and capable of loving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.