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Still Waters

Pride in St George is flagging

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The English feel far more patriotic about the Union Flag than the St George’s Cross, according to a new poll.

The survey found that while 80 per cent linked the British flag with such feelings, only 61 per cent associated them with English one.

By contrast, the Scottish and the Welsh were far more likely to feel pride in their flag – the St Andrew’s Cross and Red Dragon respectively – than the English in theirs.

The survey was carried out by the think tank British Future as part of a report analysing how people from around the UK view their “national identity”. It will be released tomorrow, on St George’s Day.

The organisation say the results show that more needs to be done to encourage a sense of “English patriotism” if the Union is to survive.

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But i thought that they had outlawed patriotism!! I thought the last labour government didn't want anybody to cause offence to our immigrant friends. Now they want us to get all patriotic.....i wish they'd make up their minds.

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Where did they source the respondents? Unfortunately the English flag has become associated with various right-wing groups, so now we have to pander to politically correct indignation that the English national flag is somehow 'racist'.

I never consider 'Britain' as a nation, I am English and proud of it.

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"Pride in St George is flagging" i'll get my flag then.

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Posted (edited)

That's because the Scots, Welsh and Irish are allowed, in fact encouraged, to be proud of their nations and to fly their national flags, but as soon as the English do the same they are branded as racists and told by over-zelous councils to take down the St George's Flag in case it "offends" somebody.

As soon as the English fight back against that then more will feel proud of the St George's Day and the great nation of England.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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Let us then kill two birds with one stone. Dump the flag along with it's (largely Socialist/Liberal invented) Right-Wing connotations, and re-adopt the true Old English White Dragon (Wyvern) of Wessex which was in use long before the Norman Invasion, and take St.Edmund for our Patron Saint, getting rid of the Syrian!

dragon11_0-1.jpg

BTW, it seems to have been largely forgotten that the flag of St.George was originally adopted from the Genoese flag in 1190 to give English merchant ships entering the Med. the benefit of the protection of the Genoese fleet. The Kings of England paid the Doge of Genoa for the privelege. So forget all the tales of noble crusaders - it was all about Commerce!

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Being half Welsh I have a small Welsh Dragon at home. I think it identifies with a people, rather then a nation.

31ted%2Bb6H2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Let us then kill two birds with one stone. Dump the flag along with it's (largely Socialist/Liberal invented) Right-Wing connotations, and re-adopt the true Old English White Dragon (Wyvern) of Wessex which was in use long before the Norman Invasion, and take St.Edmund for our Patron Saint, getting rid of the Syrian!

dragon11_0-1.jpg

BTW, it seems to have been largely forgotten that the flag of St.George was originally adopted from the Genoese flag in 1190 to give English merchant ships entering the Med. the benefit of the protection of the Genoese fleet. The Kings of England paid the Doge of Genoa for the privelege. So forget all the tales of noble crusaders - it was all about Commerce!

There has been a campaign to replace the St George's Flag with the St Edmund's Flag (which is currently the flag of Suffolk) as England's national flag and to replace St George with St Edmund as England's patron saint.

Here's the St Edmund's Flag, the flag which some want as England's new national flag:

suffolk-county-st-edmund-s-flag-874-p.png

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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You can fly a Welsh or Scottish flag without fear of attack. Put up the St George and you will probably get a letter from the Council and be accused of being a member of the National Front.

It is very sad times.

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'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' as a possible national anthem?!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the *? Who in heaven's name suggested that? do they have ANY idea what the song is about? Are there NO English songs/poems we could use? *face palms self repeatedly* *despairs*

p.s. I've hated the Union flag with a passion since I was a small child.

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Posted (edited)

You can fly a Welsh or Scottish flag without fear of attack. Put up the St George and you will probably get a letter from the Council and be accused of being a member of the National Front.

It is very sad times.

Usually councils just make up a silly excuse as a reason why you can't fly the St George's Flag. They'll send you a letter to tell you that "it's a fire hazard" or that "it is advertising." But we all know the REAL reason as to why the councils don't like the flag to be flown.

And if you don't take it down the council sends a group of men around to your home in, of course, hard hats and high viz jackets who then proceed to tape off the area around where the flag is being flown with tape saying "HEALTH AND SAFETY HAZARD" and then, if they need to climb a ladder to get the flag down, a council member then proceeds to climb a ladder to take it down but only if that man had been on an intensive twelve week course on how to climb ladders in a safe way and only if a 50ft exclusion zone was put around the ladder "for health and safety reasons."

If you fly a Gay Pride Flag or a hideous EU Flag, though, then the council mysteriously doesn't see the flag as being a Health and Safety matter or advertising and let's you fly it.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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Posted (edited)

'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' as a possible national anthem?!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the *? Who in heaven's name suggested that? do they have ANY idea what the song is about? Are there NO English songs/poems we could use? *face palms self repeatedly* *despairs*

p.s. I've hated the Union flag with a passion since I was a small child.

Swing Low Sweet Chariot is a great song. And you act as though the song is some sort of racist song when, in fact, it is a song that slaves sang in the American Deep South and is about their yearning to be free from bondage. In 2002, the Library of Congress honored the song as one of 50 recordings chosen that year to be added to the National Recording Registry. It was also included in the list of Songs of the Century, by the Recording Industry Association of America and the National Endowment for the Arts.

England rugby fans sing it during matches and have done since 1988, but it has been a club rugby favourite for longer

Coming into the last match of the 1988 season, against Ireland at Twickenham, England had lost 15 of their previous 23 matches in the Five Nations Championship. The Twickenham crowd had only seen one solitary England try in the previous two years and at half time against Ireland they were 0-3 down. However during the second half England scored six tries to give them a 35-3 win. Three of the tries came in quick succession from Chris Oti, a black player making his Twickenham debut. When a group from the Benedictine school Douai in Berkshire (which closed in 1999) started to sing a rugby club favourite – the gospel hymn "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" – in honour of their new hero, large sections of the crowd joined in. The song is still regularly sung at matches by supporters. There are associated gestures, sometimes used in a drinking game, which requires those who wrongly perform the gestures to buy a round of drinks.

england.jpg

The song became the England Rugby World Cup theme for the 1991 tournament, when performed by "Union featuring the England World Cup Squad". It reached no. 16 on the UK singles chart. England lost in the Final against Australia.

The song was then covered in 1995 for that year's tournament by British pop/reggae duo China Black together with South African male choral group, the Ladysmith Black Mambazo. It reached no. 15 on the chart, selling 200,000 copies — and South Africa won the tournament.

When England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003 they returned home on a plane dubbed "Sweet Chariot."

For the 2011 World Cup England released an upbeat party anthem version of the Swing Low, Sweet Chariot as their official World Cup song. The Song was premiered at the famous 'Polo Rocks' concert in aid of The Princes Trust late July anticipating a release on September 4, 2011

I also think the Union Flag is one of the greatest national flags there is. It's better than a mundane tricolour.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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This is a pretty...interesting argument that this ignorant yank is reading here. Frankly I don't take much "pride" in being American, or of the flag, or the color of my skin, or my language, as these were all things I have little or no control over and as far as I know it was an accident of luck that my soul was born into a body here and not a plague ridden third world nation. Not to say that there aren't also way too many people in the US who also have pride in the stars and stripes for no better reason than the propaganda has instructed them that only a bad person wouldn't. Anyone have anything which might enlighten me?

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This is a pretty...interesting argument that this ignorant yank is reading here. Frankly I don't take much "pride" in being American, or of the flag, or the color of my skin, or my language, as these were all things I have little or no control over and as far as I know it was an accident of luck that my soul was born into a body here and not a plague ridden third world nation. Not to say that there aren't also way too many people in the US who also have pride in the stars and stripes for no better reason than the propaganda has instructed them that only a bad person wouldn't. Anyone have anything which might enlighten me?

I think I understand what you are saying...but I prefer to think of it as a PROFOUND BLESSING rather than mere luck :tu:

As to the flags, the only point of reference I have is the issue of the Confederate Battle flag. It's a part of many southern States flags and is considered racist. The "stars and bars" it's called.

When I was living in Mississippi there was a State wide referendum so that the citizens of the State, about 45% black, could vote on replacing this racist flag. The referendum lost! A substantial number of blacks were just fine with the flag thank you very much! Which goes to prove that Mississippi has more people who love the history of the State than the NAACP. :P

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But i thought that they had outlawed patriotism!! I thought the last labour government didn't want anybody to cause offence to our immigrant friends. Now they want us to get all patriotic.....i wish they'd make up their minds.

Hahahahaha!!!!:lol:

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"British by birth - English by the Grace of God!"

SuffolkSaintEdmunds.jpg

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You can fly a Welsh or Scottish flag without fear of attack. Put up the St George and you will probably get a letter from the Council and be accused of being a member of the National Front.

It is very sad times.

Aye! Tis true!:angry: Well I'm so glad our local village Church flies the St Georges flag most of the year round... I love to see it!

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Swing Low Sweet Chariot is a great song. And you act as though the song is some sort of racist song when, in fact, it is a song that slaves sang in the American Deep South and is about their yearning to be free from bondage. In 2002, the Library of Congress honored the song as one of 50 recordings chosen that year to be added to the National Recording Registry. It was also included in the list of Songs of the Century, by the Recording Industry Association of America and the National Endowment for the Arts.

England rugby fans sing it during matches and have done since 1988, but it has been a club rugby favourite for longer

Coming into the last match of the 1988 season, against Ireland at Twickenham, England had lost 15 of their previous 23 matches in the Five Nations Championship. The Twickenham crowd had only seen one solitary England try in the previous two years and at half time against Ireland they were 0-3 down. However during the second half England scored six tries to give them a 35-3 win. Three of the tries came in quick succession from Chris Oti, a black player making his Twickenham debut. When a group from the Benedictine school Douai in Berkshire (which closed in 1999) started to sing a rugby club favourite – the gospel hymn "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" – in honour of their new hero, large sections of the crowd joined in. The song is still regularly sung at matches by supporters. There are associated gestures, sometimes used in a drinking game, which requires those who wrongly perform the gestures to buy a round of drinks.

england.jpg

The song became the England Rugby World Cup theme for the 1991 tournament, when performed by "Union featuring the England World Cup Squad". It reached no. 16 on the UK singles chart. England lost in the Final against Australia.

The song was then covered in 1995 for that year's tournament by British pop/reggae duo China Black together with South African male choral group, the Ladysmith Black Mambazo. It reached no. 15 on the chart, selling 200,000 copies — and South Africa won the tournament.

When England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003 they returned home on a plane dubbed "Sweet Chariot."

For the 2011 World Cup England released an upbeat party anthem version of the Swing Low, Sweet Chariot as their official World Cup song. The Song was premiered at the famous 'Polo Rocks' concert in aid of The Princes Trust late July anticipating a release on September 4, 2011

I also think the Union Flag is one of the greatest national flags there is. It's better than a mundane tricolour.

You haven't been here very long so I'll excuse you for jumping to conclusions. Yes, 'Swing Low' is an AMAZING song and I have been singing it to myself for over 50 years as I find it very comforting. It's about an African slave in America who is about to be swept up into heaven by God's angels and released from his miserable life ....... are you seriously suggesting that this is a suitable national anthem for England in the 21st century?

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I can't help thinking that before long, any new National Anthem for England would have to be in Urdu/Hindi/Somali/Polish/Romanian etc., so as not to upset anybody in our 'wonderful' multicultural society!

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'I Vow To Thee My Country' would be good as a national anthem I think. I know it's a Christian hymn but I don't think anyone could object to the sentiments expressed in it.

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Let us then kill two birds with one stone. Dump the flag along with it's (largely Socialist/Liberal invented) Right-Wing connotations, and re-adopt the true Old English White Dragon (Wyvern) of Wessex which was in use long before the Norman Invasion, and take St.Edmund for our Patron Saint, getting rid of the Syrian!

dragon11_0-1.jpg

BTW, it seems to have been largely forgotten that the flag of St.George was originally adopted from the Genoese flag in 1190 to give English merchant ships entering the Med. the benefit of the protection of the Genoese fleet. The Kings of England paid the Doge of Genoa for the privelege. So forget all the tales of noble crusaders - it was all about Commerce!

I would go along with your post,and while we are at it change the National Anthem,not that I have anything against our Queen,but I think Land of Hope and Glory would be more appropriate..cheers

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I can't help thinking that before long, any new National Anthem for England would have to be in Urdu/Hindi/Somali/Polish/Romanian etc., so as not to upset anybody in our 'wonderful' multicultural society!

What do we do when Scotland bottles out and becomes independant which wont be long now..

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"British by birth - English by the Grace of God!"

SuffolkSaintEdmunds.jpg

That flag incorporates St George's flag. The actual arms of East Anglia are these, which are identical to the arms of Sweden.

200px-Coat_of_arms_of_East_Anglia.svg.png

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Posted (edited)

'I Vow To Thee My Country' would be good as a national anthem I think. I know it's a Christian hymn but I don't think anyone could object to the sentiments expressed in it.

It's a wonderful tune, maybe better known as Holst's Jupiter. But the only true English anthem has to be Jerusalem.

Edited by Flibbertigibbet

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It's a wonderful tune, maybe better known as Holst's Jupiter. But the only true English anthem has to be Jerusalem.

Hey whoa you guys you're gonna upset the ragheads using a Christian hymn,we've gotta have something written by an English chap without reference to anything that might upset our foreign brethren,as the Gov't has said...But I will have THE FLAG flying on the Queens Jubilee day,and to 'ell with the cost.

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