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Karlis

The Lazarus Miracle in Akure

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A 67-year old mother of three resurrected 12 days after being pronounced clinically dead. She was certified dead on January 7, 2012 but is now back to life, hale and hearty. Members of the Elders Council of the church to which Mrs.Babatunde belonged had actually contributed some money in support of her burial when they heard of her demise only to be told later that she was back to life. arrow3.gifRead more...

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Posted (edited)

That's Nigeria.

The literal ground zero of voodoo.They have every manner of zombie powder there is.

She was slipped a mickey that looks like death,and woke up 12 days later.

Her slowed metabolism ,is why decay didn't occur.

Nothing miraculous about it,and everyone involved probably knows it,but it makes a good story.

Edited by Simbi Laveau

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The story nicely illustrates how hard it is to give a definitive diagnosis of death. The subject is a little ghoulish, but premature burial happens in modern developed countries, too. Just goolgebing the phrase.

The concern is even Biblical. Jesus doesn't "take credit" for reviving Jairus' daughter. You aren't surely dead until you start to rot, and even that can be mistaken.

Some funeral practices, like burial and cremation, "finish the job." Others, like entombment and exposure, do not. People leave their tombs, as inevitably as any other receiver operating characteristic phenomenon is inevitable.

I was surprised that a Christian advocate posted this. "Inevitable" is the antithesis of "miracle." The story could hardly have mentioned religion more often, showing that God squadders will make up a miracle from the merely rare. (In fairness, in a near-by thread, atheists are falling all over themselves making up bogus ballistics and endocrinology to "explain" a story which was misreported by the Huffington Post. So, both sides spin the truth, hoping to further their religious agendas.)

Worse, if death is still misdiagnosed in our time, think how much easier that would have been in the ancient world. And whatever the era, if being entombed 12 days isn't the end of the story, then Lazarus' four days speak for themselves.

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Posted (edited)

Simbi and eb,

Your comments are well-made, but I'm not sure this story even warrants your acceptance of it as being as factual as you both suggest it might be.

Any person believed to be dead and injected daily for a dozen days with a preservative in sufficient quantity to stop them from decaying, would likely be dead in actual fact. And if that aspect of the story is false, then how can we trust any other aspect of it?

There has to be reasonable suspicion that there was no certification of death, and that the story may be almost completely fabricated.

Edited by Leonardo

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Posted (edited)

Leo

There has to be reasonable suspicion that there was no certification of death, and that the story may be almost completely fabricated.

Well, there are three theories, apart from the God Squad's. I made no comment about Simbi's hypothesis at all, since I have no idea whether drug-induced zombification is practiced where the story orignates.

I did mention the current thread where we have full before-and-after documentation of a "miracle" report being outrightly fabricated by second-hand "improvement" of a totally secular "drive-by shooting" story. So, I didn't exclude the possibility that what Karlis posted is simply false.

My main point is that if death can be correctly diagnosed when it occurs, then it is inevitable that death will sometimes be "diagnosed" when it hasn't occurrred. The ROC for death is good these days in the developed countries, of course, but the error rate cannot be identically zero. Some people will leave their tombs as surely as somebody will win the lotto.

So, taking the report at face value, the God Squad has repackaged the lawful operation of material principles as if this was some suspension of material laws. This is obviously done in hopes of promoting a religious agenda. The OP story could hardly be any clearer about that.

Unfortunately for the Squad, fudging the physics backfires, since it casts doubt on one of their own favorite stories. The incident in that story, of course, could also have been faked with drugs or simply made up from whole cloth after the alleged incident.

My own heuristic, however, is not to ascribe malice to what is fully explained by incompetence.

-

Edited by eight bits

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This alone has a bad 'smell' to it (no pun intended)...

On Saturday, 7 January, 2012, around 10 p.m. ... was seriously ill and on admission in hospital.

...by 2 a.m. that is Sunday morning that she had been confirmed dead by a doctor’s report...

...the protests and nationwide strike against fuel subsidy removal made it impossible to travel...

...the corpse of Mama was rejected at the hospital in Akure because of the strike

I don't pretend to know for a sec how they operate over there so the bad 'smell' could be just me, but since she was "on admission in hospital" at 10pm, "confirmed dead" by a doctor at 2am (I assume at the hospital) why then cannot they accept her corpse at the hospital due to some strike that makes it impossible to travel? Did it involve stretchers too or something, hmmm?

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Well i admit,I skimmed over the article.The minute I saw it was Nigeria,it registered as zombie powder. The Nigerians have herbs they cannot even detect with modern tests.

Stuff we have no knowledge of,indiginous to the area.So who knows what they can do to make such a scenario occur.

My bets are zombie powder ,if its real. She looks with it though.A lot of haitian zombie powders make the individual a bit wonky when they ,"come back to life".

Some brain cell death must occur.Just a guess,but it seems like a reasonable one.

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My own heuristic, however, is not to ascribe malice to what is fully explained by incompetence.

-

Quite right too, although you are far more forgiving of the apparent beneficial result this story had on (and for) the Christian population in the area it occurred, than I am.

I noted:

* The woman's son-in-law - Pastor Andrew Ozoemena, who related the story to the media.

* He was apparently informed of the critical nature of his mother-in-law's illness by her brother - Pastor Amos.

* The woman sneezed and opened her eyes after 9 days of "lying in state". Was she actually unconscious all that time, or faking it?

* A neighbour - Evangelist Femi Alu, put them in contact with a doctor - Evangelist Ezekial, at the JUT Hospital.

* They related that, with the testimony of the woman's miraculous recovery, several of the doctor's colleagues became "born again".

* The woman relates her experience of seeing Heaven, Jesus and God, and then Jesus giving her a "tour of Hell".

* The woman then relates she was given a purpose by Jesus for her 'return', which was to evangelise about her 'vision'.

Call me cynical, but I smell a rat.

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Sustained absence of a heart rhythm on a twelve lead EKG would be a definitive measure of death. This procedure, along with the real-time hospital monitoring, would make an argument for "real" death. But, even if monitoring heart rhythms was not practiced, the idea of her regaining consciousness after that extended period of time without organ failure and side-stepping internment is indeed miraculous.

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I hear a new Misfits song...

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Quite right too, although you are far more forgiving of the apparent beneficial result this story had on (and for) the Christian population in the area it occurred, than I am.

I noted:

* The woman's son-in-law - Pastor Andrew Ozoemena, who related the story to the media.

* He was apparently informed of the critical nature of his mother-in-law's illness by her brother - Pastor Amos.

* The woman sneezed and opened her eyes after 9 days of "lying in state". Was she actually unconscious all that time, or faking it?

* A neighbour - Evangelist Femi Alu, put them in contact with a doctor - Evangelist Ezekial, at the JUT Hospital.

* They related that, with the testimony of the woman's miraculous recovery, several of the doctor's colleagues became "born again".

* The woman relates her experience of seeing Heaven, Jesus and God, and then Jesus giving her a "tour of Hell".

* The woman then relates she was given a purpose by Jesus for her 'return', which was to evangelise about her 'vision'.

Call me cynical, but I smell a rat.

those were my thoughts, this sounds staged.

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The delay of the burial could be because God's plan

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Well i admit,I skimmed over the article.The minute I saw it was Nigeria,it registered as zombie powder. The Nigerians have herbs they cannot even detect with modern tests.

Stuff we have no knowledge of,indiginous to the area.So who knows what they can do to make such a scenario occur.

My bets are zombie powder ,if its real. She looks with it though.A lot of haitian zombie powders make the individual a bit wonky when they ,"come back to life".

Some brain cell death must occur.Just a guess,but it seems like a reasonable one.

What is zombie powder? :blink:

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I hear a new Misfits song...

Or an old Rob Zombie song

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Posted (edited)

What is zombie powder? :blink:

Zombie powder is a mixture of ingredients that causes people to look as if they have died,but its merely slowed down their metabolism.

It's contents can vary ,depending upon who makes it,but various ingredients always remain constant.

One is poison from a puffer fish,and one is secretions from the bufo frog.

Every bokor,has a personal recipe .

(And it is the same puffer fsh that the Japanese eat as a delicacy,BTW)

It's probably most commonly used in Haiti,but its used where ever voodoo is in play,usually.

If one ingests the powder,they say when you are revived,your will is no longer your own.

You do the bidding of whomever is your master.

It's used to instill fear in the subjects.I think its mostly a mental thing,thinking they are now truely zombies ,so they obey .

It's really a means to an end for free slave labor ,in these countries.

It can be a powder,blown into your face,or a liquid,slipped into a drink.

However,haitians truely believe the dead can be ressurected,or body parts used for evil spells.

When a loved one dies,their family,like whole family,sleep at the graveside ,to ensure the body isn't stolen within 48,hours of death .

I think they believe a body is viable for ressurection for only 2-3 days,thus the 48 hour vigil.

Zombie powder,as far as I know,only works on the living,and simulates death,but the person is not dead,at all.

Albeit a terrible movie,but serpent and the rainbow is based on a true story,of a man's search for this substance.

Because of his story,the US medical community,researched the compound,to see if it had any modern medical application .

I dare say its used covertly ,if it is used.

I think there was talk of using it for anesthesia for surgery .

Edited by Simbi Laveau
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Posted (edited)

What is zombie powder? :blink:

Zombie powder is a real poison that causes most body functions to shut down. Psychological symptoms are similar to a stroke or concussion: incapable of thinking clearly, easily persuaded, TERRIBLE judgement, and almost total amnesia, to name a few.

Zombie powder lowers a person's resting heart and breathing rate to an almost imperceptible level. If the 'zombie' stayed completely still, any hospital would pronounce them dead.

There IS a possibility of the zombie brain keeping all of the following (mostly) intact: Motor control, Speech recognition, Memory, while destroying most other functions. There's a few differences between these and so-called 'virus zombies:'

They feel pain.

They possess no supernatural abilities, just ~1/3 what they had in life.

They hunger. They may not feel hungry or know how to feed, but they won't go on forever.

They may possess fears, dislikes and wants.

They may recognize people from before they were poisoned, and even associate emotions with them even though they may not remember the memories that caused them

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_zombie_powder_do

It's a known concoction of voodoo practices.

Edited by UFO_Monster

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This is why I think that urban legend stories about burried alive is truthfull stories.

Look at this article.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/09/17/us-autopsy-idUSN149975820070917

Well even Edgar Allen poe wrote the Premature Burial,probably from hearing a local tale .

I think before the invention of things like ekg machines etc,people were mistakenly buried,while still alive,quite a bit.

I heard stories about alleged vampirism coming into being this way,down in new Orleans.

I forget the details now ......

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Clurophune? I don't even think this story is real. Did anyone else catch this? I googled that and the only thing that comes up is this article, on multiple pages. Her testimony is pure bull****. Life after death interviews are usually described the same way, the way she describes it is pretty funny. Streets of gold, and angels singing. I call hoax propagated by the son, or this **** didn't even happen.

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yes zombie powder does seem like a more than logical explaination

either zombie powder or she was in a coma

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now u ppl are probably gonna say how she survived for 12 days. zombie powder makes yur bloodstream flow slower and lowers yur heart rate till u are right at the brink of death. in a coma everything in yur body slows down but u can stll feel the heart rate so im probably suspecting zombie powder. btw god is fake. y resurrect this person but born stephen hawkings with and injury?

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Clurophune? I don't even think this story is real. Did anyone else catch this? I googled that and the only thing that comes up is this article, on multiple pages. Her testimony is pure bull****. Life after death interviews are usually described the same way, the way she describes it is pretty funny. Streets of gold, and angels singing. I call hoax propagated by the son, or this **** didn't even happen.

same here google suggested chlorophorm as alternate spelling in any case did doctors check her body for traces of needles?

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Afew days later, local villagers burned her to death for being a witch. Ah, Africa.

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