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Ecto76

Question for Skeptics!

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You can take this any way you want... but. My question to "skeptics" is if you do not believe in the Paranormal or Ghosts why do you reply to posts that discuss the subject? I hope the intention is for good intentions and not to mess with people's heads because that's just plain wrong. People are entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Not everyone lies or makes up stories. Not everyone is perfect and not everyone is right. I'd like to think when it comes to the Paranormal that the possibilities are unlimited. I think its a good topic!? :innocent:

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Well the thing is when you probe or give rational explanations, the OP usually becomes rude or defiant and will not accept any rational explanations you propose. That is when it becomes frustrating and things get nuts. IMO.

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I do not know but I lean more toward skeptic I think. I respond to posts on certain subjects because they intrigue me or because I genuinely believe some things to be false and feel the need to say so. I may not believe everything but I'm curious and open to learn more.

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I do not know but I lean more toward skeptic I think. I respond to posts on certain subjects because they intrigue me or because I genuinely believe some things to be false and feel the need to say so. I may not believe everything but I'm curious and open to learn more.

Yes, exactly!

Brilliant!

kittychihuahualove.jpg

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I visit every thread in hopes of finding a tiny puppy hugging a kitten. I just knew today would be special.

Other than that, while I have trouble staying in belief of many of the threads created here about ghosts in general, the reason I cam to this site was an interest in ghosts, after someone I knew shared (in a personal humbling moment) that he was afraid to be alone at night, because he was constantly seeing spirits. It was his sincere sense of hopelessness and fear that piqued my interest, and had me join here to learn more.

So now I have stuck around, because although I lose that "magic" of wondering about ghosts in particular on this site, the reason I came here still sits somewhere in me. Wouldn't it be great to find that one thread that you can't explain away, or that gives a revelation? Although skeptical of what I've read here, from the bits I have learned, a part of me is still waiting for that thread.

I need something to wait for now that the puppy hug prophecy has come to pass.

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You can take this any way you want... but. My question to "skeptics" is if you do not believe in the Paranormal or Ghosts why do you reply to posts that discuss the subject? I hope the intention is for good intentions and not to mess with people's heads because that's just plain wrong. People are entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Not everyone lies or makes up stories. Not everyone is perfect and not everyone is right. I'd like to think when it comes to the Paranormal that the possibilities are unlimited. I think its a good topic!? :innocent:

My thoughts exactly.

People who believe,do not NEED proof,especially if they've experienced something personally.

People who need to have a bunch of alleged experts analyze and prove it cannot happen because of a bunch of nonsense,that has its own guidelines changed and corrected,down the line,seem to just want to jump on people who aren't close minded ,or are somehow sensitive.

It's quite annoying .

If you don't believe in it,don't post,and let people who are like minded,discuss it without being insulted ,and told to go see a psychiatrist .

Live and let live.

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My thoughts exactly.

People who believe,do not NEED proof,especially if they've experienced something personally.

People who need to have a bunch of alleged experts analyze and prove it cannot happen because of a bunch of nonsense,that has its own guidelines changed and corrected,down the line,seem to just want to jump on people who aren't close minded ,or are somehow sensitive.

It's quite annoying .

If you don't believe in it,don't post,and let people who are like minded,discuss it without being insulted ,and told to go see a psychiatrist .

Live and let live.

Not all of us post insults. Also, can you believers honestly say you believe every story you read on here?

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Posted (edited)

My thoughts exactly.

People who believe,do not NEED proof,especially if they've experienced something personally.

People who need to have a bunch of alleged experts analyze and prove it cannot happen because of a bunch of nonsense,that has its own guidelines changed and corrected,down the line,seem to just want to jump on people who aren't close minded ,or are somehow sensitive.

It's quite annoying .

If you don't believe in it,don't post,and let people who are like minded,discuss it without being insulted ,and told to go see a psychiatrist .

Live and let live.

Hi Simbi.

Whilst I agree that people should not be rude, in as much as telling people to go visit the qwack, what you must remember is that this is an open forum. There are going to be times when people disagree and give their opinions. Provided those opinions are not insuilting, then they should be taken on board. It is no use saying that if you dont believe in it, dont post. Where would that get anyone?

If only people who were allowed to believe were allowed to post, then we would probably end up with totally exagerated experiences, each one trying to out-do the other.

I am not saying this would occur every time but it is certainly a possiblility. Where would that get anyone?

The other reason skeptics post on threads is because they are generally, truly interested in whatever phenonemon is being discussed and if they see some thing that they can really believe in, then they will lean more towards that particular topic. Dont believe any skeptic that says otherwise! (Other than the ones who do just come in to throw insults)

I believe in certain paranormal phenonenom, which I wont go into in detail here, but I like to read the threads and make my own mind up. If I feel it neceassry I will post and ask questions. If the OP wishes to take my questions the wrong way, then I could throw your post back at you and say...''Why bother posting something if you will not accept anybody who questions you?''

All skeptics are trying to do is find a rational explanation for something. If the OP refuses to answer questions, that in itself makes the topic even more unbelievable.

Basically, what I am saying is this. The OP has to listen to debate and think rationally to establish whether or not they have experienced something truly paranormal, just as the skeptics will ask questions to establish if there is any other possible explanaiton. :)

edit....Hi Ecto, .i hope that answers your question as well

Edited by Englishgent

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Most/many skeptics are, IMO, people who want what we're talking about to be true and are p***ed off by the sort of rubbish people peddle as evidence. Hey, I want aliens, Atlantis and the Yeti all to be real. Hell, throw in faeries and angels. But I'm a skeptic through and through, I want evidence I or someone smarter then me can't disprove through reasoned analyse and a debater who doesn't get their knickers in a knot whenever someone says "that's rubbish" or "prove it".

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You can take this any way you want... but. My question to "skeptics" is if you do not believe in the Paranormal or Ghosts why do you reply to posts that discuss the subject? I hope the intention is for good intentions and not to mess with people's heads because that's just plain wrong. People are entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Not everyone lies or makes up stories. Not everyone is perfect and not everyone is right. I'd like to think when it comes to the Paranormal that the possibilities are unlimited. I think its a good topic!? :innocent:

i agree that people are entitled to their opinions and beliefs - and that includes skeptics. no one seems to figure that in when this comes up in a discussion

and also i agree that not everyone lies and makes up stories, and not everyone is perfect or right.

(not sure what perfect has to do with it, but ok)

the thing is though, that the ones who come on here are largely comprised of the lying story telling type.

you don't need to ask me which ones if you are the least bit intelligent (skeptic or not).

i don't apologize for calling someone on their bullcrap either.

i come to this site because i'm interested in the idea of these phenomena, but i don't believe there are a bunch of teen vampires out there online talking about their experiences. i think there are a bunch of teen vampire fans out there living their fantasies online.

(just one example, i could go on but meh)

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It is not a question of being a 'skeptic' or 'debunker', it is about rationally and objectively analyzing a claimed sighting/encounter etc to determine the reality of what actually happened.

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You can take this any way you want...

Given it's a public forum, it is good that you offer readers the ability to interpret your words as they see fit..

but.

Aha! Knew there was a catch :D

My question to "skeptics" is if you do not believe in the Paranormal or Ghosts why do you reply to posts that discuss the subject?

Speaking for myself (although I seem to not be alone..), they are topics I'm interested in, along with science and general research. At times, the line/overlap between paranormal and normal is quite grey and wide. I am also extremely interested in the nature of human perception and observation - especially the way we perceive the outside world given our sensory limitations and the way our brain processes it all... That means I don't think my, or anyone's perceptions of events are ever perfect.

But there's something else that motivates me - I do NOT like the frauds, trolls and moneymakers that hang around the fringes of the paranormal. In particular I do not like the way they feed off people's fears and naivety - and if my questioning or critique helps lead to a determination that the story is false, for no matter what reason, then I think that is worthwhile.

And I strongly believe that if a person has a story to tell that isn't fabricated or overly embellished, they have little to fear from questioning or criticism.

This is after all a public forum and by choosing to post something here, you have decided to offer it up for public scrutiny, questioning and critique. Not simply blind adulation. If that's what you want, post it on your own website or at Youtube where you can wall yourself behind the ability to ignore/delete any scrutiny or criticism. Good luck with that..

I hope the intention is for good intentions and not to mess with people's heads because that's just plain wrong.

If you feel you, or anyone else, is being poorly treated simply report it to the moderators.

People are entitled to their opinions and beliefs.

Then how can you complain about others expressing theirs?

Not everyone lies or makes up stories.

And as you say below, not everyone is entirely accurate in those stories even if they believe in them. If you wish to live in a world where observations and memories are perfect, then you are on the wrong planet amongst the wrong species.

Not everyone is perfect and not everyone is right.

Yes, I agree, which is why we tend to question things. That continual questioning is a human trait that tends to help with our survival and development.. (not sure if either of those are necessarily good things, but I digress..)

I'd like to think when it comes to the Paranormal that the possibilities are unlimited.

I don't quite understand this - in fact I would argue that by definition, possibilities cannot be unlimited.. (but that is another topic for another day..)

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Posted (edited)

You can take this any way you want... but. My question to "skeptics" is if you do not believe in the Paranormal or Ghosts why do you reply to posts that discuss the subject?

I don't commit crimes either, but I still comment about it.
I hope the intention is for good intentions and not to mess with people's heads because that's just plain wrong.
No, I leave that up to the believers. Edited by Rlyeh

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Posted (edited)

Ok. So only reply if you believe in something? That sounds like a lovely one sided forum.

Oh wait, we are all able to voice our own opinions. Neat.

Edited by Jeffertonturner

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I would LOVE to find/hear/see/experience evidence of the paranormal.

I've tried about everything. Ghost hunting, seances, psychics, religion, trek to Area 51, wandered the wilderness...NOTHING.

I've seen odd stuff but nothing that defies ANY mundane explanation.

I like to discuss and probe any OP that states they have evidence. What I find to be a problem is so much of this "evidence" is "take my word for it". That's not evidence. It's a story. It's also a problem with the "you can't prove it isn't ______". Also not evidence.

I've seen some interesting things on this form and have learned quite a bit but what it comes down to is IF a plausible explanation can be found for something offered as "proof of ______", then it isn't "proof" of anything.

I also find it disturbing that many posters take critical examination of their "proof" as a personal attack on them as a human being.

If some one is being a jerk, ignore them. It takes two people to make it a fight.

Nibs

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^^ What Nibs said.

Except I haven't been to Area 51, or tried religion, or been ghost hunting, or wandered the wilderness...

So, what I meant to say was really nothing like what Nibs said, but she's still right.

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Posted (edited)

There's only 1 real "skeptic" in this topic. So if you want an answer from a real skeptic, you should only listen to Nibs.

The real definition of being skeptic is to inquire or to find out. The rest who thinks they are "skeptics" are just more akin to cynicism.

A little scenario.

Person 1: I have just seen a ghost!

The skeptic: Okay! Where and when.

Person 1: Yesterday in the woods.

The skeptic: Okay, let's see if we can find any evidence.

---------

Person 1: I have just seen a ghost!

The cynic: No you haven't, do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

Bottom line, real skeptics reply because they want to find out. The cynic reply because they want to show you, that you are wrong.

:D

Edited by Scepticus

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Posted (edited)

I also find it disturbing that many posters take critical examination of their "proof" as a personal attack on them as a human being.

Someone's human emotion getting the better of them when it shouldn't? In what area of argument does this not commonly happen? Disturbing is a strong word.

There's only 1 real "skeptic" in this topic. So if you want an answer from a real skeptic, you should only listen to Nibs.

Who the heck are you to know this??

Edited by _Only

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I thought this was a great topic...? I am happy that we can all answer or reply without being rude or making fun of the poster. Bravo to all so far!

I understand skeptics wanting to learn more and offering a rational, logical reason etc; I am sure somewhere out there it is appreciated by some. What I am having trouble with is, I think there are two types of skeptics. There are those who just don't believe in it. Period! There are those who disprove it but keep an open mind by listening to what there is to offer by the believer.

As a believer, all I ask is to keep in mind there are different types of believers too. Why do I believe? As some stated; I have had my experiences I cannot explain. I have collected great evidence over the years that keep me believing that I haven't been able to disprove. Most of all, I investigate to help my clients have a better understanding of it and help the community with the knowledge I have thus far.

I do not need to prove to anyone my belief's because I em entitled to them. I'm a disprover. I keep things real, simple and objective when I investigate. Not everything is paranormal, not everything has an explanation or at least have not come up with a natural explanation.

I don't think its fair to believers if some skeptics make fun of, dismiss right away or just don't give them the benefit of the doubt. It was the believer who had the experience not you. The skeptic wasn't there. You did not investigate the location. So how can you dismiss something without investigating it?

I always said that skeptics and investigators have something in common. We all search for proof. A skeptic will always be a skeptic until they experience it for themselves. Just like I tell those in my lectures when I teach... I am not here to turn people into believers. So don't try and turn us into skeptics or dismiss our stories without listening or investigating them!

Just trying to keep things real around here! Keep things peaceful and let the healthy debate keep rolling on!

:tu:

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I thought this was a great topic...? I am happy that we can all answer or reply without being rude or making fun of the poster. Bravo to all so far!

I understand skeptics wanting to learn more and offering a rational, logical reason etc; I am sure somewhere out there it is appreciated by some. What I am having trouble with is, I think there are two types of skeptics. There are those who just don't believe in it. Period! There are those who disprove it but keep an open mind by listening to what there is to offer by the believer.

As a believer, all I ask is to keep in mind there are different types of believers too. Why do I believe? As some stated; I have had my experiences I cannot explain. I have collected great evidence over the years that keep me believing that I haven't been able to disprove. Most of all, I investigate to help my clients have a better understanding of it and help the community with the knowledge I have thus far.

I do not need to prove to anyone my belief's because I em entitled to them. I'm a disprover. I keep things real, simple and objective when I investigate. Not everything is paranormal, not everything has an explanation or at least have not come up with a natural explanation.

I don't think its fair to believers if some skeptics make fun of, dismiss right away or just don't give them the benefit of the doubt. It was the believer who had the experience not you. The skeptic wasn't there. You did not investigate the location. So how can you dismiss something without investigating it?

I always said that skeptics and investigators have something in common. We all search for proof. A skeptic will always be a skeptic until they experience it for themselves. Just like I tell those in my lectures when I teach... I am not here to turn people into believers. So don't try and turn us into skeptics or dismiss our stories without listening or investigating them!

Just trying to keep things real around here! Keep things peaceful and let the healthy debate keep rolling on!

:tu:

Well, just to start, a personal experience isn't evidence. It is exactly what it is, a personal experience.

Just as a example - take a peek at the "Vampire" and "Werewolves" threads. They get insane. Individuals insist that "everything is possible" and when a skeptic explains "No, everything is NOT possible" it can get crazy.

Yes, each person is entitled to their beliefs but to hold on to these beliefs blindly without trying to accept that a simple explanation may be correct is just as bad as some one blindly dismissing some one's idea of "proof".

Yes, we all search for "proof" but the definition of "proof" seems to broaden to extremes in some situations.

Nibs

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Hi Simbi.

Whilst I agree that people should not be rude, in as much as telling people to go visit the qwack, what you must remember is that this is an open forum. There are going to be times when people disagree and give their opinions. Provided those opinions are not insuilting, then they should be taken on board. It is no use saying that if you dont believe in it, dont post. Where would that get anyone?

If only people who were allowed to believe were allowed to post, then we would probably end up with totally exagerated experiences, each one trying to out-do the other.

I am not saying this would occur every time but it is certainly a possiblility. Where would that get anyone?

The other reason skeptics post on threads is because they are generally, truly interested in whatever phenonemon is being discussed and if they see some thing that they can really believe in, then they will lean more towards that particular topic. Dont believe any skeptic that says otherwise! (Other than the ones who do just come in to throw insults)

I believe in certain paranormal phenonenom, which I wont go into in detail here, but I like to read the threads and make my own mind up. If I feel it neceassry I will post and ask questions. If the OP wishes to take my questions the wrong way, then I could throw your post back at you and say...''Why bother posting something if you will not accept anybody who questions you?''

All skeptics are trying to do is find a rational explanation for something. If the OP refuses to answer questions, that in itself makes the topic even more unbelievable.

Basically, what I am saying is this. The OP has to listen to debate and think rationally to establish whether or not they have experienced something truly paranormal, just as the skeptics will ask questions to establish if there is any other possible explanaiton. :)

edit....Hi Ecto, .i hope that answers your question as well

well said

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Just saying... your offering an opinion. All are entitled to their opinion.

Yes, you are right. A personal experience is not evidence... though I'd like to think unless it is documented well, it can be evidence? Depends on the situation.

I said in another topic, alternative explanations are great. It can put clients at ease. They aren't always the right explanations. Skeptics want evidence and ask for proof. As an investigator, I want those same things. I ask that everyone try and separate those type of people from one another. Somewhere in there... we all have mutual respect. :tu:

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Posted (edited)

I am skeptical as to whether or not ghosts, spirits, etc are real, but I would love to know those answers! I think it would be awesome if we were able to prove the existence of such and then be able to study the phenomenon.

Because of that, we must weed out the false or misunderstood claims to get to the ones that genuinely cannot be explained. Think about it - if a scientist were attempting to study the way durham wheat grows, but in the beds where he planted the wheat someone else planted thousands of soft red wheat seeds, it would be very hard for that scientist to appropriately study the durham wheat. Not only would it be necessary to determine which plants were the right ones, but the presence of the other plants would affect the natural growing patterns and make the study uncontrolled.

Human beings are capable of lying, misunderstanding and faking things. With a subject such as this were nothing has yet been proved and any phenomena is sporadic and cannot be consistently recorded, the path is muddy enough. Adding the human factor and software like the one that allows easy faking of ghost photos from phones, you have one giant, messed up freaking haystack that MIGHT have a needle in it but might NOT.

We should be thankful for the skeptics who quickly explain/dismiss things, because if the day ever comes where a piece of evidence comes out and the skeptics are not sure what to make of it, we just might finally have some proof worth examining.

Edited by karmakazi

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Most/many skeptics are, IMO, people who want what we're talking about to be true and are p***ed off by the sort of rubbish people peddle as evidence. Hey, I want aliens, Atlantis and the Yeti all to be real. Hell, throw in faeries and angels. But I'm a skeptic through and through, I want evidence I or someone smarter then me can't disprove through reasoned analyse and a debater who doesn't get their knickers in a knot whenever someone says "that's rubbish" or "prove it".

Totally agree.

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Posted (edited)

I thought this was a great topic...? I am happy that we can all answer or reply without being rude or making fun of the poster. Bravo to all so far!

I understand skeptics wanting to learn more and offering a rational, logical reason etc; I am sure somewhere out there it is appreciated by some. What I am having trouble with is, I think there are two types of skeptics. There are those who just don't believe in it. Period! There are those who disprove it but keep an open mind by listening to what there is to offer by the believer.

As a believer, all I ask is to keep in mind there are different types of believers too. Why do I believe? As some stated; I have had my experiences I cannot explain. I have collected great evidence over the years that keep me believing that I haven't been able to disprove. Most of all, I investigate to help my clients have a better understanding of it and help the community with the knowledge I have thus far.I do not need to prove to anyone my belief's because I em entitled to them. I'm a disprover. I keep things real, simple and objective when I investigate. Not everything is paranormal, not everything has an explanation or at least have not come up with a natural explanation.

I don't think its fair to believers if some skeptics make fun of, dismiss right away or just don't give them the benefit of the doubt. It was the believer who had the experience not you. The skeptic wasn't there. You did not investigate the location. So how can you dismiss something without investigating it?

I always said that skeptics and investigators have something in common. We all search for proof. A skeptic will always be a skeptic until they experience it for themselves. Just like I tell those in my lectures when I teach... I am not here to turn people into believers. So don't try and turn us into skeptics or dismiss our stories without listening or investigating them!

Just trying to keep things real around here! Keep things peaceful and let the healthy debate keep rolling on!

:tu:

So here, is where the horrible, mean skeptics take issue. - look at the bolded statement above in your own post. Again you are making a claim of evidence. Skeptics like me would LOVE evidence trust me. So what evidence can you present that can't be readily explained/disproved using rational thinking? I am anxious and listening.

How do you "help" people with paranormal issues, when you don't even know what the paranormal is? Skeptics worry that these paranormal-professionals can do more harm than good, propogating false premises and pseudo-sciences. I'm sure the electronics industry believes in ghosts, they have probably sold more EMF meters over the last 5 years than in the previous 50!

Suggesting that skeptics of this forum shouldn't post in threads were beleivers post their stories just shows us who the "close minded" segment of the community really is.

Edited by CakeOrDeath

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