Eleven Minutes to Understand

[odas]

This video is pure crapp. It is nationalfashistic in its nature. Kos no need to get upsett because of israelygobels like propaganda.

[Knight Of Shadows]

This video is pure crapp. It is nationalfashistic in its nature. Kos no need to get upsett because of israelygobels like propaganda.

yeah i reliazed it's not really worth it

[ninjadude]

Where is it untrue? Damning yes... but where exactly is it untrue?

untrue and slanted are too different things. I did not say untrue. Simply that leaving off certain other facts and emphasizing the Israeli "plight" makes it slanted to try to gain sympathy. A similar video could and probably has been made for the palestinians. What you have to do is sit back a bit and watch it again. Count how many times Israel is mentioned with no opposing side. Try to put yourself in someone elses shoes. I know that's hard when you're convinced of righteousness. But that vid is severely slanted.

[Mr.United_Nations]

I wonder why noone has said about Christians killling thosaunds of Jews and eating them?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

KoS - if you're going to play the "we were here first" card then the Canaanites want a word

Also, I thought "Pre-Exilic Israel" was in a different place to current Israel, or am I thinking of something else?

[Knight Of Shadows]

yeah .. cananites are one tribe of the arab immigrated from arabic peninsula you know

this is simple history but it's shocks me how the west even twist that to suit their agenda .. even history

we didn't grew on trees as fruits you know

all of us came from arabic peninsula as tribes immigrated all over middle east

by that time .. jews didn't even exist you know .. neither muslims did

the most common mistake people make .. is thinking arabs suddenly broke the lower grounds and started to growing with crop along with islam

we didn't come with islam ... our history traces back AGES AND AGES B.C

islam came not long ago compared to that .. but arab have always been there .

so canaanites are arabs .. west history probably disagree and suggest arabs grew on some type of tree later After christ

but they can only apply their stupid version of history on their people not us . " just like they did with crusades "

we have had our brilliant historians .. and thank god they didn't leave history writing to the west

or else we might have been born yesterday according to them

Edited May 6, 2012 by Knight Of Shadows

[MichaelW]

yeah i reliazed it's not really worth it

Because you can't answer for Arab actions. That's why.

You can sit there and repeat the same old rhetoric that Assad has told you to say but it doesn't change the facts.

[odas]

we didn't grew on trees as fruits you know

Wow. No? Now that will be a shocker for some people when they find out that their history is not as accurate as they thought it is.

Edited May 7, 2012 by odas

[+and-then]

I don't recall anyone saying that Arabs were not in the land for a very, very long time. And in truth it is not the Arabs which are problem as much as it is Islam that causes the hatred. Never the less the land is not theirs and will not belong to their children.

[Knight Of Shadows]

we didn't grew on trees as fruits you know

Wow. No? Now that will be a shocker for some people when they find out that their history is not as accurate as they thought it is.

yeah i know .. we just poped out of seeds suddenly .. and bam .. arabs

[Knight Of Shadows]

Because you can't answer for Arab actions. That's why.

You can sit there and repeat the same old rhetoric that Assad has told you to say but it doesn't change the facts.

i was talking about bashing islam and arabs that's not worth replyin to ... not whatever you meant when you posted that

.. we got a fact that arabs canaanites were in the land before israel

on the other hand we got isralis says " it was given to them by god "

that's the fact .. true and simple .. i know you'll argue it just i was thinking

and i put you and with your arguments .. on one side of scale .. and the other side i put one cig of my pack

and guess what .. the cig won !! see you later

Edited May 7, 2012 by Knight Of Shadows

[MichaelW]

i was talking about bashing islam and arabs that's not worth replyin to ... not whatever you meant when you posted that

.. we got a fact that arabs canaanites were in the land before israel

on the other hand we got isralis says " it was given to them by god "

that's the fact .. true and simple .. i know you'll argue it just i was thinking

and i put you and with your arguments .. on one side of scale .. and the other side i put one cig of my pack

and guess what .. the cig won !! see you later

Actually, incorrect. Arabs are not Cannanites because they are do not exist. And even if the share genetic similarities, this does not mean they are the same. For one thing, Arabs are not natives of the land of Israel. They are natives of Arabia, hence why they are called Arabs.

It seems hypocritical that people like you go on and on about having "the land first". Tell me then, what do you say about the Berbers in North Africa? They had the land first, then the Arabs came and colonised their land and changed their ways of living. Do they deserve rights?

[Leonardo]

I don't recall anyone saying that Arabs were not in the land for a very, very long time. And in truth it is not the Arabs which are problem as much as it is Islam religion that causes the hatred. Never the less the land is not theirs and will not belong to their children.

Fixed your post for you, and then.

After all, you forgot to include Judaism, Christianity, etc in the beliefs which lead to hatred.

[Knight Of Shadows]

michael .. arabs grow on trees you're tottally mistaken they weren't in arabia they grew on trees . we have no forefathers

we just poped out from seeds like i said .. if that suits your boat

meanwhile the fact is arabs are canannites .. wheather you agree or not .. me doesn't care i only care about the cig am smoking right now

[+and-then]

Fixed your post for you, and then.

After all, you forgot to include Judaism, Christianity, etc in the beliefs which lead to hatred.

Thanks but perhaps you can show me where the other religions are doing anything other than playing defense these days? And how a person as intelligent as yourself can continue to equate the damage being done in the world today with the sins of the past by other religions? From an absolute standpoint of truth that encompasses all time and morality perhaps your point is valid. But most of us have never been able to see where that point exists in the real world. The tower you live in will fall like the rest when the poor oppressed Arab stepchildren finally attempt their own version of a "final solution to the Jewish problem". Doubt it at your own peril. But hey, being right is even better than being alive I guess, at least for some of us.

[Leonardo]

Thanks but perhaps you can show me where the other religions are doing anything other than playing defense these days? And how a person as intelligent as yourself can continue to equate the damage being done in the world today with the sins of the past by other religions? From an absolute standpoint of truth that encompasses all time and morality perhaps your point is valid. But most of us have never been able to see where that point exists in the real world. The tower you live in will fall like the rest when the poor oppressed Arab stepchildren finally attempt their own version of a "final solution to the Jewish problem". Doubt it at your own peril. But hey, being right is even better than being alive I guess, at least for some of us.

Do you deny the position Israel has with respect it's current home in the Levant is, at least in part, based in religion? Do you deny that Israel's position regarding Jerusalem is, at least in part, also based in religion?

Do you deny this has relevance and impact today, and not just "in times past"?

You are intelligent enough to understand, even if your belief wants to blinker you from that understanding.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Leonardo

[RavenHawk]

yeah .. cananites are one tribe of the arab immigrated from arabic peninsula you know

this is simple history but it's shocks me how the west even twist that to suit their agenda .. even history

I’ll agree that the ancient Canaanites were Semitic, but not all Semites came from Arabia. Canaanites where more of a mix between Assyrian and Hittite and maybe even Phoenician. That’s not to say that Nomadic Arabs didn’t mingle in as well. But the archeological evidence is beginning to show that the Israelites are Canaanites. Which would make the Conquest of Canaan an internal civil war. Not some kind of Israeli on Arab conflict. To twist it into something that Israel has been beating up on Arabs for thousands of years

we didn't grew on trees as fruits you know

Are you serious? No, Arabs didn’t grow on trees as fruits, but you are nuts!

all of us came from arabic peninsula as tribes immigrated all over middle east

by that time .. jews didn't even exist you know .. neither muslims did

Only the Southern Semitic tribes came from the peninsula (Hejaz and Yemen). The Northern tribes have been historically the more affluent – the Cradle of Civilization.

the most common mistake people make .. is thinking arabs suddenly broke the lower grounds and started to growing with crop along with islam

we didn't come with islam ... our history traces back AGES AND AGES B.C

islam came not long ago compared to that .. but arab have always been there .

No, most people do not think that. But to be honest, for anybody today – it would be hard to separate Islam from Arab. Primarily because Islam is more than just a religion. I think that the common mistake is that people think that all Muslims are the same. Arabs are not Egyptian or Persian or Turkish, etc. Islam encompasses many cultures and languages. And all those cultures have always been there.

so canaanites are arabs ..

See above.

west history probably disagree and suggest arabs grew on some type of tree later After christ

but they can only apply their stupid version of history on their people not us . " just like they did with crusades "

we have had our brilliant historians .. and thank god they didn't leave history writing to the west

or else we might have been born yesterday according to them

We in the West were not born yesterday. West history does not suggest Arabs grew on some type of tree. Is this what you do when you can’t handle the truth? Just invent a strawman? What’s this “just like the Crusades” garbage? What about the Conquest of Iberia and Sicily?

[ninjadude]

Thanks but perhaps you can show me where the other religions are doing anything other than playing defense these days? And how a person as intelligent as yourself can continue to equate the damage being done in the world today with the sins of the past by other religions? From an absolute standpoint of truth that encompasses all time and morality perhaps your point is valid. But most of us have never been able to see where that point exists in the real world.

And then, most of the world belongs to religions that trace their theology back millenia. They read ancient scripture as the absolute word of God in their daily lives. They study and read about those who lived in those ancient times as a basis for their modern life. They cherish exploits, wars, martyrs, saints, prophets, etc that occured in those ancient times. Religion has stuggled with itself for all of that time. You expect Islam to just forget? They cannot forget history anymore than you can. In our "modern" world there are many places where religous groups, Christian and Islam, cannot forget past transgressions. They teach them to their children. Now we have a new paradigm. Conservative US Christians will teach their children to hate Islam because of 9/11. It just perpetuates the same thing.

[odas]

Actually, incorrect. Arabs are not Cannanites because they are do not exist. And even if the share genetic similarities, this does not mean they are the same. For one thing, Arabs are not natives of the land of Israel. They are natives of Arabia, hence why they are called Arabs.

It seems hypocritical that people like you go on and on about having "the land first". Tell me then, what do you say about the Berbers in North Africa? They had the land first, then the Arabs came and colonised their land and changed their ways of living. Do they deserve rights?

Incorrect. Caananites and palestines were semitic arabic people. Your poor judgement if you think that arab or caananit or palestin means right away being muslim.

On part two how should we realy call America or Australia? I mean the native population was robbed of their religion, freedom, dignity, name.....and not by muslims. Oh, I appologize, that is of course not true, never happened. The indians attacked the white people who were there already.......

[+and-then]

Do you deny the position Israel has with respect it's current home in the Levant is, at least in part, based in religion? Do you deny that Israel's position regarding Jerusalem is, at least in part, also based in religion?

Do you deny this has relevance and impact today, and not just "in times past"?

You are intelligent enough to understand, even if your belief wants to blinker you from that understanding.

Both points absolutely are based in religion. The Jews look upon the land as theirs just as the so called Palestinians do. The Jews are trying to hold onto a piece of land as an eternal home for themselves that is roughly one thousandth the size of the Arab land surrounding it yet they still seem to be asking too much. THIS is the point Leo. Can you honestly say that the Arabs/Persians...MUSLIMS...will ever be willing to recognize the hated Jew on a piece of land of ANY size that was once a part of an Islamic Caliphate? The Qur'an expressly forbids it. No land once controlled by Islam shall ever be allowed to be controlled by another. There is a HUGE number of adherents to Islam who believe enough in that admonition to teach their children of it's utmost importance. This perpetuates a hatred down the centuries and the bill it seems is coming due in our time. One of those unstoppable forces meeting immovable object kind of things. I don't really believe there is a way to stop what's coming. But to hear ad infinitum how Israel IS the blame and if only Israel would do the right thing...... the right thing, Leo is for Israel and all Israelis to die. THAT is the goal of all who worship Allah and his prophet.

To reduce the situation to a mere religious disagreement or political struggle over pieces of land gives lie to the true nature of a conflict that is on track to cause a large portion of the world to burn one day.

[+and-then]

And then, most of the world belongs to religions that trace their theology back millenia. They read ancient scripture as the absolute word of God in their daily lives. They study and read about those who lived in those ancient times as a basis for their modern life. They cherish exploits, wars, martyrs, saints, prophets, etc that occured in those ancient times. Religion has stuggled with itself for all of that time. You expect Islam to just forget? They cannot forget history anymore than you can. In our "modern" world there are many places where religous groups, Christian and Islam, cannot forget past transgressions. They teach them to their children. Now we have a new paradigm. Conservative US Christians will teach their children to hate Islam because of 9/11. It just perpetuates the same thing.

There's a lot of truth in what you say. But I think we happen to be very near the generation...this one or next....where the "denouement" will come. As to forgetting, no, I realize the very vibrant nature of hate within us as a species. And I believe that our creator knows it as well. This may be why He "chose" out a group to use as an example for the rest of us. He gave them the rule book for a happy life, knowing they would spurn it. He then proceeded to begin the lessons of what happens when you spurn the instructions.

But He never stopped our scientific or intellectual "progress". We are fast growing up and now the lessons have to be taken to heart or we just destroy ourselves.

[Knight Of Shadows]

I’ll agree that the ancient Canaanites were Semitic, but not all Semites came from Arabia. Canaanites where more of a mix between Assyrian and Hittite and maybe even Phoenician. That’s not to say that Nomadic Arabs didn’t mingle in as well. But the archeological evidence is beginning to show that the Israelites are Canaanites. Which would make the Conquest of Canaan an internal civil war. Not some kind of Israeli on Arab conflict. To twist it into something that Israel has been beating up on Arabs for thousands of years

Are you serious? No, Arabs didn’t grow on trees as fruits, but you are nuts!

Only the Southern Semitic tribes came from the peninsula (Hejaz and Yemen). The Northern tribes have been historically the more affluent – the Cradle of Civilization.

No, most people do not think that. But to be honest, for anybody today – it would be hard to separate Islam from Arab. Primarily because Islam is more than just a religion. I think that the common mistake is that people think that all Muslims are the same. Arabs are not Egyptian or Persian or Turkish, etc. Islam encompasses many cultures and languages. And all those cultures have always been there.

See above.

We in the West were not born yesterday. West history does not suggest Arabs grew on some type of tree. Is this what you do when you can’t handle the truth? Just invent a strawman? What’s this “just like the Crusades” garbage? What about the Conquest of Iberia and Sicily?

i posted evidence of this debate long ago am just not interested enough to get into it again

so i have to get into it with every new person comes flaming and wants to prove that he's right

you in the west weren't born yesterday .. but your western friends got the nerves to twist reality to suit their agenda as much as they can

they'd make us walk on four to prove us wrong if they have to .. therfore am not really interested in this debate .. neither i got time or mood for it

that's why i comment funny notices .. not that it's far fetched from the western historians to suggest such thing .. i don't think it's impossiable really

they might actually be hipporcate enough to do it

just like they act hippocrates when they kill arab childrens in excuse of nuclear weapons which was never found in iraq

just like osama bin laden photo shope fixed pic all we got from " leader of quada " a fake concept

they can fool you around all they like .. but like i said we got our own historians .. we don't take the bull**** of the west for real as history

Edited May 7, 2012 by Knight Of Shadows

[ExpandMyMind]

michael .. arabs grow on trees you're tottally mistaken they weren't in arabia they grew on trees . we have no forefathers

we just poped out from seeds like i said .. if that suits your boat

LOL!

Thanks for that KoS

Edited May 7, 2012 by ExpandMyMind

[the-Unexpected-Soul]

the double standards in the western people, is mind blowing, what the hell are you talking about

first you go and steal almost a whole continent from the native amirecans and destroy them all, some one who did that should shut the hell up, you won't expect them

to be fair and sensitive about ensuring that only native people some were in the middle east can live in palastine, how about you get the hell out of amireca first !

but then again let us even see who are the native people in the middle east that should live, and do what ever in it ? ,,, hmmmm the answer is 'Middle Easterns'

not some "european russian african" creeps, who have identity crises and wanted to speak in an ancient language

also you want to tell me that palastine belong to a religion, it belong to the jewish religion !!!!!? what kind of hippocrates are you?, you spend the day talking about

freedom and how the religion should be separated from the state, and then you sponser a whole country for one religion!!!, and then you wiesel around and say

palastine is for the jewish race, but hold on!, judaism is a religion or a race !? for god sake, what kind of logic riddle do you possess!?, first is the trinity: three in one

and now is judaism: two in one, they can be religion or race or both at the same time, what ever .., as long as logic is **** up as much as your history, and only the logic of power is at action, then you are okay with it

the jews as a race does not have a real history in the middel east compared to the middle easterns them selves, they abonded it all togother ages ago

while the middle easterns have roots in this land date back to Thousands of years before christ, so let us forget palestinians for a second, even egyptians

have a right to palastine more than the jews, they were part of empyers that coverd palastine, the countries that surround palestine, have a million time more right

to palastine than the jews, hell, even palastine lebanon syria jordan and iraq are called "belad al sham" they are the same thing, it's a freaken small land

we didn't need freakin forgin jews to come and create seperation walles in it,

also let me remind you of something, you know egypt right!?, this nation is about 80 million people, most of them live along the nile river, and they date back to thousand of years BC, i don't think any one can dare to say that egypt belong to anyone except the egyptians,

well the jews have the face to say that it belong to them!!!, the big israel cover all the land from the nile river to furat river!!, so any one from any where in that area

have absolutely 1000,000% right to oppose israel because israel are nothing but occupying entity

you hippocrates have no problem going overseas half the globe away attacking innocent countries to protect your own country from an imagenary threat,

while us, an actual occupation entity, right next door and is expanding gradually, but we should play dead so we may not be labeled violent !!!?

if the forum claim to care about freedom then do not delete my post please

[+and-then]

The thread is about a brief primer on the history of the Israeli/Palestinian problem and why it is so difficult to solve. KoS got himself a stroke over it and I'm not sure I understand what you're on about. Israel has attempted to make peace and give up land to the Palestinians several times. They have always refused because they want ALL the land. That's not going to happen and when they push a step too far they are going to lose yet MORE land. If your buddy AssOdd gets too deep into it Damascus may well become a very quiet piece of real estate for a few thousand years.