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Chris Raj

God = Selfish, Needy & Narcissistic?

320 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Before i commence, i would like to say Hello to everyone and thank you to those who address my queries, with logic in the background. My name is Chris. I was reading a thread under this segment a while ago, which sparked a plethora of questions in my head. I firmly believe that i would not mean to hurt any sentiments of any sort vis-a-vis what ever i might delve into going forward, Religion, Science, Philosophy, et cetera.

I am a Deist (Hilarious, considering the following questions that would be put forth). But i fret not. I wish to get some answers, that is all. Anyhow, here i go...

From what we know, Jesus lived as a man, and worshipped God, as a God himself (Under debate). In essence, he worshipped himself (with just a projection of Flesh and Blood seperating him from the infinite true self).

And from what i can see, he wanted people to worship God in "the

right way" - His way.

Then we hear that god created the universe and the creatures who

inhibit planet(s). And to me the sole purpose of this would be, so

that we live happily and worship him.

My first question is, was jesus a narcissistic being who worshipped

himself? Besides, why did he live amongst us humans and teach us

god's ways, when a magnificent display with all of God's glory

& power could have gathered him a fanbase much quicker than dying &

portraying emotional weakness on 2 pieces of wood (No attack meant on the puritans)? Did this "God"

tap into our weakness as humans in the Emotion Dept.? Why did he

want to take advantage of us for his own glory (I.E., People

worshipping him "the right way")? Is he that selfish?

Second question, Was god so tired of creating everything. That upon eons of not getting any credit, he birthed us to worship him &

thank him. If he is such a strong & superior being, then why does

he need to worry about us not thanking him all the time? Is he that

needy and weak? Why don't he just not care?

Regards,

Edited by Chris Raj

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Very petty also.

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Before i commence, i would like to say Hello to everyone and thank you to those who address my queries, with logic in the background. My name is Chris. ...

Hi Chris, and welcome to UM. :tu:

... Jesus ... In essence, he worshipped himself ...

Sorry, but you would have to provide a Scripture-source to support that viewpoint. Just stating that is an unsupported opinion. Scriptures state that Jesus worshipped God, "the Father".

... And to me the sole purpose of this would be, so

that we live happily and worship him. ...

Scriptures state that the main purpose as to why God created Mankind is for individuals from Mankind to be born a second time, as immortal spirit members, and God's children in God's Family. Further -- Jesus is the eldest, and first-born Son of God.

... why did he live amongst us humans and teach us

god's ways, when a magnificent display with all of God's glory

& power could have gathered him a fanbase much quicker than dying &

portraying emotional weakness ...

Scriptures state that your way was not God's plan for the salvation of Man.

... Why did he

want to take advantage of us for his own glory (I.E., People

worshipping him "the right way")? Is he that selfish?

Let's take a step back, Chris ... Would you apply that same viewpoint to Human parents and their potential children, before the parents decide to have a family?

Regards,

Regards,

Karlis

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Before i commence, i would like to say Hello to everyone and thank you to those who address my queries, with logic in the background. My name is Chris. I was reading a thread under this segment a while ago, which sparked a plethora of questions in my head. I firmly believe that i would not mean to hurt any sentiments of any sort vis-a-vis what ever i might delve into going forward, Religion, Science, Philosophy, et cetera.

I am a Deist (Hilarious, considering the following questions that would be put forth). But i fret not. I wish to get some answers, that is all. Anyhow, here i go...

From what we know, Jesus lived as a man, and worshipped God, as a God himself (Under debate). In essence, he worshipped himself (with just a projection of Flesh and Blood seperating him from the infinite true self).

And from what i can see, he wanted people to worship God in "the

right way" - His way.

Then we hear that god created the universe and the creatures who

inhibit planet(s). And to me the sole purpose of this would be, so

that we live happily and worship him.

My first question is, was jesus a narcissistic being who worshipped

himself? Besides, why did he live amongst us humans and teach us

god's ways, when a magnificent display with all of God's glory

& power could have gathered him a fanbase much quicker than dying &

portraying emotional weakness on 2 pieces of wood (No attack meant on the puritans)? Did this "God"

tap into our weakness as humans in the Emotion Dept.? Why did he

want to take advantage of us for his own glory (I.E., People

worshipping him "the right way")? Is he that selfish?

Second question, Was god so tired of creating everything. That upon eons of not getting any credit, he birthed us to worship him &

thank him. If he is such a strong & superior being, then why does

he need to worry about us not thanking him all the time? Is he that

needy and weak? Why don't he just not care?

Regards,

If you've ever been close to a narcissist, a true one, not just narcissistic tendendies, you'll find something common with most all of them....they play the role of the martyr. All their past failed relationships, they were completely blameless, stepped on, abandoned, taken advantage of abused. That's the same set up Christianity is based on with Jesus, what was done to him, the crucifixion was nothing on his part, but because of the horrible sins of mankind that he had to do that. It creates a debt for mankind that he did selflessly did it FOR THEM and guilt that they caused it to happen, but if you look at it closely, this debt supposedly assessed by himself and repaid to himself cancels each other out and is complete nonsense and pointless, but it served a purpose of manipulating minds, same as narcissists do. Narcissists function, thrive, feed off one thing - their whole life is focused on the aquiring of this, and it is narcissistic supply - which is basically the adoration, admiration, attention from others. Narcissists are empty inside and they have to have feedback from others. Are we seeing the similarities here yet? That is the same thing as Christianity set up for this God, a whole religion that supplies this God with infinite narcissitic supply. Read the old testament, he can rage and be wrathful when he doesn't get it, kill over what if you put in psychological terms would be referred to as narcissistic injury, where one of his suppliers shows some form of rejection, i.e. worshipped another god, didn't give this god their full loyalty. It's all the same screwed up mental game.

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I'm thinking my way through this myself, Chris, and honestly, little of the Christian theology about Jesus & God dogma makes any sense to me on both a practical and spiritual level. For me it lacks cohesiveness. My current thoughts as I'm working through this, is that people generally accept as fact what they're told about what God said/says/thinks, etc. It's always at the minimum 3rd party information. So what if little or none of that is true, but just a human construct that attempts to place spiritual matters in to a material world?

We always hear this is what God wants, this is what God says, etc. and accept those statement as facts without requiring any more proof than that, when even in a court of law witnesses are extremely important, and hearsay testimony isn't accepted.So what if God & Jesus were/are nothing like the entities that religion claims them to be? What if they are all about love, compassion, forgiveness, fellowship, generosity, without all the manmade rules that obscure this basic message? Lately I've been thing God really has a bad rep, with so many terrible & tragic things done in his name, when perhaps it has nothing to do with God but all about human emotions & motivations. I'm seeing a separation between the divine & some humans, divided between the "god's on our side" folks and the "we're on God's side" people, with the former using God as justification and the latter using God as reason to connect with the divine in all of us. I'm probably not saying this very well, but right now it's the best I can do.

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Chris: My first question is, was jesus a narcissistic being who worshipped

himself?

Vatic: Jesus as a being is not God. Although His origin is not earthly, he is still able to manifest himself visually. He did so prior to his incarnation appearing visually to people such as the Hebrews and especially the prophets. This is why Jesus is called the Spirit of Prophecy. Prior to Jesus incarantion, he was described as the figure of a man sitting on a throne in a cloud. This apperance is called, "The Appearance of the Glory of the Lord". You can find many descriptions across time and cultures that describe this manifestation. For instance, the descriptions of Genies is essentially identical to the descriptions of Jesus Appearing in the Cloud of the Glory. This is essoteric knowledge that most Christians and Jewish people don't grasp. But the point is that Jesus had a state of being that is not earthly in origin. But he is NOT God. God is unable to be seen by human eyes. No man has seen God at any time. But through the ages, many record encountering Jesus even up to today. The descriptions of those who actually meet Him are consistent in describing Him.

Secondly, Jesus is not Narcissistic. He just actually knows who he is: The King. But his personality is actually a guardian servant type who values benevolence and compassion. But he also can and will judge if it comes down to it. It is his duty which Jesus is driven by a sense of. Jesus doesn't worship himself. Though his origins are not of earth, Jesus is still a creature under God, and he recognizes that. Jesus serves the invisible God and makes it clear that we should as well. Jesus present himslef as a Son of God, a premier Prince and Heir of God who gets everything he has from God. As such his faithfulness in service to God is unquestionably devoted.

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Chris: Second question, Was god so tired of creating everything. That upon eons of not getting any credit, he birthed us to worship him &

thank him. If he is such a strong & superior being, then why does

he need to worry about us not thanking him all the time? Is he that

needy and weak? Why don't he just not care?

Vatic: The way it really is, is that there is a society of beings that exist such as God and angels and other beings as well. It is collectively refered to by the human convention as, "The Kingdom of Heaven". This culture of beings existed even before the universe and they witnessed the forming of the universe with the stars emerging and the beginning of light and such things. Such beings are as you can imagine, are not material in their essenses, and are refered to by human convention as "spirits". But they are immortal beings. God is the first of them to exist and is self existent. Like in any society, laws and conventions are required. God is the King of this society. Like in any society controversies arise, crimes take place, some individuals are productive and some are problems for soceity. Drama and conflict is a natural course of living intelligent beings in their interactions. This brings us to humanity: Earth and humanity are abstract depictions of a greater unseen society with mankind given capacities like God in his intelligence. Earth is a metaphor of a greater reality. As such it would be acurate to describe Earth as a Labratory in which ideas are tested, standards are set, and judgements established for the greater society. Naturally some in that society want to manipulate the results.

As you can see then, it is NOT all about the earth and Humanity. We are part of a judicial process of a much larger society. However God is not insensitive to humanity and knows the rigors of the testings makes us face sufferings. He has compassions and instructs us how to both alleviate one anothers sufferings, but also to call on Him. God is prone to interaction with Humanity because of His nature. Knowing our plight is entrapment, God also offers us the Judicial atonement of King Jesus so that the we can ascend beyond our human experience and join the immortals of the Greater society. Yes we face a lot as humans. But God assist us and for this we can and should be grateful, like we would to anyone who helped or assisted us in something. That is only good manners and a proper attitude for a hand up.

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Chloe, kickin' butt and takin' names. That boxing match rubbed off on you. Now we've got a thread :) .

Hey, Chris, welcome aboard.

I agree with you, Chloe, that the image of some debt to himself paid off by having himself killed is "complete nonsense and pointless." However, Jesus didn't say that, some of his admirers did, and none of them with the insistence we are familiar with until about 14 centuries afterwards. And even today, it is still some, not all, and not a majority.

There are other Nicene theories of the Passion, including those in which the death and resurrection make indivisible contributions. Say what you will, if the point of the exercise is for him to rise from the dead, then he does actually have to die.

(In other words, Chris, most Christians think this

dying & portraying emotional weakness on 2 pieces of wood

leaves out an important part of the story, that he rose from the dead. BTW, what "emotional weakness" did you mean? I thought he died pretty well, considering.)

So, since you, Chloe, have opened the psychological door, what might we suspect when somebody insists on something which is "complete nonesense and pointless?" I'm going to go with projection here. That hurt, recoil from rejection, sense of entitlement, confidence in one's humility despite having so much to be unhumble about, inability to appreciate one's own contribution to failed relationships (definitely his Father's son), etc. is within everybody. Some people cannot acknowledge it consciously, and so it expresses itself where it can.

Now, even somebody who's paranoid can have enemies, so maybe Jesus becomes the projection target because he's such a good fit. I don't think so, though. It doesn't usually work out that way, and there are competing theories with a healthy Jesus, or a Jesus who's difficult in much more interesting ways. What really makes him a great projection target, IMO, is how little biography there is; not many inconvenient facts to inhibit the creation of a theory.

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From what we know, Jesus lived as a man, and worshipped God, as a God himself (Under debate). In essence, he worshipped himself (with just a projection of Flesh and Blood seperating him from the infinite true self).

And from what i can see, he wanted people to worship God in "the

right way" - His way.

The essence of his teaching that distinguishes Christianity is his story of the Good Samaritan.

He taught that the true worship of God is to be actively doing things for others that you would have them do for you if you were them, regardless of race, sex, economic class, national origin, or any other outward appearance.

He taught that when you see others whose behavior is like that, they are your true brothers and sisters in God.

China is now actively working on Good Samaritan Law, since a little girl in a street struck by a vehicle was left there to be repeatedly run over again and again, and it was all caught on film. It is because China wants people to behave the right way, his way.

So whoever that long ago Middle Easterner was that causes the stories to be written actually was, one thing that is now proven by thousands of years of history is that he succeeded in his goal to spread that teaching, that his way is the right way.

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Personally, those traits are ones I would ascribe to the christian god and I think Chloe's post is spot on.

Supposedly god created us and he created us as imperfect... and what happens? He blames us for it. He also makes this massive show, when he (being supposedly all powerful) could simply erase problems he himself created. But no. It's all on us and we have to beg and plead for his 'mercy'.

Let's take a step back, Chris ... Would you apply that same viewpoint to Human parents and their potential children, before the parents decide to have a family?

Through history parents have arrogantly thought they have known the 'right way' for their children to behave. Often they will force of abuse their children to behave the way they want them to, regardless of how much they may harm their children in the process.

God doesn't seem too different from those parents. He's willing to abuse his 'children' which he supposedly loves, to get them to do what he thinks is best, not caring who is harmed in the process.

Also Karlis how many sane parents would willingly let their children suffer and die when they have the power to prevent it? And, indeed, how many would willing kill them?

God's supposedly better than us, but really he seems so much worse.

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What I'm seeing is a lot of human emotions & behaviors ascribed to God, when, as I understand it, s/he is nothing like us at all; never had a human experience, never had a body, doesn't grow old, you know what I mean. Can we come to understand the divine by comparing it to human behavior? Doesn't that put God in a box? Don't we need to think bigger? Or think "other"?

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What I'm seeing is a lot of human emotions & behaviors ascribed to God,

Yes, by the religious.

when, as I understand it, s/he is nothing like us at all; never had a human experience, never had a body, doesn't grow old, you know what I mean. Can we come to understand the divine by comparing it to human behavior? Doesn't that put God in a box? Don't we need to think bigger? Or think "other"?

He gets awfully angry and vengeful in the bible......aren't those parts of human behavior?

God needs to be put in a box.......and stored away with all of the other relics of the past....

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Chloe, kickin' butt and takin' names. That boxing match rubbed off on you. Now we've got a thread :) .

LOL! Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!! :P

Hey, Chris, welcome aboard.

I agree with you, Chloe, that the image of some debt to himself paid off by having himself killed is "complete nonsense and pointless." However, Jesus didn't say that, some of his admirers did, and none of them with the insistence we are familiar with until about 14 centuries afterwards. And even today, it is still some, not all, and not a majority.

There are other Nicene theories of the Passion, including those in which the death and resurrection make indivisible contributions. Say what you will, if the point of the exercise is for him to rise from the dead, then he does actually have to die.

(In other words, Chris, most Christians think this

leaves out an important part of the story, that he rose from the dead. BTW, what "emotional weakness" did you mean? I thought he died pretty well, considering.)

So, since you, Chloe, have opened the psychological door, what might we suspect when somebody insists on something which is "complete nonesense and pointless?" I'm going to go with projection here. That hurt, recoil from rejection, sense of entitlement, confidence in one's humility despite having so much to be unhumble about, inability to appreciate one's own contribution to failed relationships (definitely his Father's son), etc. is within everybody. Some people cannot acknowledge it consciously, and so it expresses itself where it can.

Now, even somebody who's paranoid can have enemies, so maybe Jesus becomes the projection target because he's such a good fit. I don't think so, though. It doesn't usually work out that way, and there are competing theories with a healthy Jesus, or a Jesus who's difficult in much more interesting ways. What really makes him a great projection target, IMO, is how little biography there is; not many inconvenient facts to inhibit the creation of a theory.

That's interesting and you're probably right what makes him such an interesting projection target is the lack of biographical info on him. That makes me think of how successful the Twilight books were and a lot of people said that the character, Bella, having so little personality made it adaptable to girls to not be conflcted too much by the character herself, Bella, and could insert themselves in her place as they were reading, her being so blah allowed for pretty much anyone to insert herself in her role and live out the fantasy as her. I was also just thinking back to Jung saying Christ was the archetype for the self, but I had pulled out Aion and was reading he said that he also was only one half of the archetype, the other the ant-Christ. We know that the shadow is a tool for projection, but maybe they both are. Maybe all archetypes are?

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All "worship" is, is narcissistic supply.

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Posted (edited)

All "worship" is, is narcissistic supply.

And as I said in another thread just the other day, any "god" that craves it imo sets off all kinds of red flags as a fake.

From the video:

"Illegitimate and adopted children, especially of humble origins, often develop narcissistic defenses to fend off persistent feelings of inadequacy and inferiority. Admittedly, it is highly unlikely that Jesus was an illegitimate child. Adulteresses in ancient Judea were stoned to death. But, equally, there is little doubt that the circumstances of Jesus's birth were shrouded in mystery. His mother, Mary, got herself pregnant but not by having sexual intercourse with her lawfully-wedded husband, Joseph. Early on, Jesus developed magical thinking, compensatory grandiose delusions, and fantasies of omnipotence and omniscience. A firstborn, he was much pampered by his doting mother. He was a prodigy, a Wunderkind: highly intelligent and inquisitive and more comfortable in the company of adults than with his peers."

Eighty, we've talked about that before, the ego inflation and that being involved with Jesus getting himself killed. And I'm sure it could be brought up about Jesus and the charity and the feeding the poor, but how often did he do this without an audience?

Narcissist can play nice, if they see a payoff for themselves.

In his book, The Selfish Gene, Richard Dawkins gives examples of how altruism may just be another form of narcissism/self interest. When someone helps someone else, they may be hoping for reciprocal help. Future Benefit.

In volunteer groups and non profit associations you will find narcissists. because that is where they gather. Wherever there are people to give them narcissistic supply. I found a web site that warned of narcissists who love to do volunteer work, they get attention by appearing to be giving to others. In fact I have been in situations in non profit organizations where the people are there to get attention. In the worse case scenario, they take over, imposing their vision on the organization; it has to look good, not necessarily do anything.

Simply by looking in the newspapers at the society pages, you will see the people I am talking about. Ns want to see and to hobnob with the rich and famous. (Let's be honest, we all love to hobnob with alpha people.) Not that I am disparaging charity and non profit organizations, in fact most people do good work, but as soon as something looks important then the narcissists come running, clamoring for attention, control and victims.

In my own experience in an emergency, I saw narcissists and non-narcissists working side by side. The only difference was that when the camera crews arrived the Ns ran to be interviewed. They love the attention.

Vested self interest

We all have genes that want to pass on their information onto following generations. At least that is what

The Shakers had a philosophy of life that understood that the nature of human kind. They planted three fields of any crop, knowing that they would sell the produce of the first, keep the produce of the second for themselves and the last one would be eaten by crows and thieves. Perhaps that is a strategy with dealing with Ns, you should always have a little something to give them, but save the best for the more deserving.

http://www.narcissis...1/Altruism.html

More from Sam, from the video:

Some narcissists are ostentatiously generous – they donate to charity, lavish gifts on their closest, abundantly provide for their nearest and dearest, and, in general, are open-handed and unstintingly benevolent. How can this be reconciled with the pronounced lack of empathy and with the pernicious self-preoccupation that is so typical of narcissists?

The act of giving enhances the narcissist's sense of omnipotence, his fantastic grandiosity, and the contempt he holds for others. It is easy to feel superior to the supplicating recipients of one's largesse. Narcissistic altruism is about exerting control and maintaining it by fostering dependence in the beneficiaries.

But narcissists give for other reasons as well.

The narcissist flaunts his charitable nature as a bait. He impresses others with his selflessness and kindness and thus lures them into his lair, entraps them, and manipulates and brainwashes them into subservient compliance and obsequious collaboration. People are attracted to the narcissist's larger than life posture – only to discover his true personality traits when it is far too late. "Give a little to take a lot" – is the narcissist's creed.

This does not prevent the narcissist from assuming the role of the exploited victim. Narcissists always complain that life and people are unfair to them and that they invest far more than their "share of the profit". The narcissist feels that he is the sacrificial lamb, the scapegoat, and that his relationships are asymmetric and imbalanced. "She gets out of our marriage far more than I do" – is a common refrain. Or: "I do all the work around here – and they get all the perks and benefits!"

Faced with such (mis)perceived injustice – and once the relationship is clinched and the victim is "hooked" – the narcissist tries to minimise his contributions. He regards his input as a contractual maintenance chore and the unpleasant and inevitable price he has to pay for his Narcissistic Supply.

http://samvak.tripod.../journal81.html

Jesus Anointed at Bethany

12 Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3 Then Mary took about a pint[a] of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.[b]6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

7 “Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8 You will always have the poor among you,[c] but you will not always have me.”

Edited by ChloeB

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I think the divine just wants us to be good, not harm one another, and be happy & grateful for the life we've been given. If one used just the life of Jesus as an example, there would be no need for the huge edifice called Christianity. I was thinking today how much money & power are tied to religion. The offerings, the cathedrals, the wealth, the power that wealth brings, books, tapes, retreats, workshops, seminaries, people hanging on your every word. There's a thrift shop in my town run by Orthodox Christians, and while they accept books about religion as donations, they never sell them, but instead give them away, as a matter of principle to not make money off the word of God. I like that.

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Before i commence, i would like to say Hello to everyone and thank you to those who address my queries, with logic in the background. My name is Chris. I was reading a thread under this segment a while ago, which sparked a plethora of questions in my head. I firmly believe that i would not mean to hurt any sentiments of any sort vis-a-vis what ever i might delve into going forward, Religion, Science, Philosophy, et cetera.

I am a Deist (Hilarious, considering the following questions that would be put forth). But i fret not. I wish to get some answers, that is all. Anyhow, here i go...

From what we know, Jesus lived as a man, and worshipped God, as a God himself (Under debate). In essence, he worshipped himself (with just a projection of Flesh and Blood seperating him from the infinite true self).

And from what i can see, he wanted people to worship God in "the

right way" - His way.

Then we hear that god created the universe and the creatures who

inhibit planet(s). And to me the sole purpose of this would be, so

that we live happily and worship him.

My first question is, was jesus a narcissistic being who worshipped

himself? Besides, why did he live amongst us humans and teach us

god's ways, when a magnificent display with all of God's glory

& power could have gathered him a fanbase much quicker than dying &

portraying emotional weakness on 2 pieces of wood (No attack meant on the puritans)? Did this "God"

tap into our weakness as humans in the Emotion Dept.? Why did he

want to take advantage of us for his own glory (I.E., People

worshipping him "the right way")? Is he that selfish?

Second question, Was god so tired of creating everything. That upon eons of not getting any credit, he birthed us to worship him &

thank him. If he is such a strong & superior being, then why does

he need to worry about us not thanking him all the time? Is he that

needy and weak? Why don't he just not care?

Regards,

The fundamental problem lies in Genesis chapter 3. Original sin. Adam and Eve did not want to listen to what God had to say. What is original sin introduced three spiritual states of humankind -- 1) separation from God 2) children of the Devil 3) spiritual, mental, and physical illnesses.

Instead of God's spirit filling humankind, you and I and everyone, we are filled with the Devil whose thoughts whose will invades us constantly. Our minds and thoughts and even actions have been captured by the Devil. We are held captive to do his will.

True healing begins with spiritual healings first and spiritual healing begin with the Eternal Gospel (that does not leave) when we put our roots into Christ. Salvation means to be healed from sin and saved from the Devil. We can not defeat this spiritual illness alone and can only break our captivity to the Devil with the filling of the Holy Spirit and the Eternal Gospel (that does not leave).

The one that has the Gospel is victorious, the one that has the Gospel does not crumble, the one that has the Gospel has the answers.

The Gospel of Christ gives a one of a kind joy, a unique joy. A joy that money and earthly pleasures and religions can not supply because they only offer temporary happiness that never lasts and often times makes the individual twice or thrice as miserable and empty in the end as before.

This is why we praise and pray to the Christ because he set us free from bondage to flesh, the Devil, and the world and gave us a joy nothing else in the world can provide. A unique joy. To choose otherwise is to continue to be an enslaved instrument of Satan's.

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Posted (edited)

i don't believe we all sinners coz of some one else's fault .. for god to assume we are sinners coz the sin of some one else . is not just

and if god is not just .. then we're screwed :D

imagin being punished for a crime your nighbors did

it's endless topic about god trust me i can only suggest you don't think about it lol

Edited by Knight Of Shadows

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Chloe

Bella, having so little personality made it adaptable to girls to not be conflcted too much by the character herself, Bella, and could insert themselves in her place as they were reading,

There is a literary technique, but it's not easy to pull it off. Jesus is not a cipher, there is substance to his character. Albert Einstein, a secular Jew and not an advocate of any revealed religion, said in an interview,

Q, You accept the historical existence of Jesus?

A. Unquestionably. Nobody can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His presence pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life... Theseus and other heroes of his like lack the authentic vitality of Jesus.

(p. 117, last page of the article, begins near the bottom of the left-hand column)

http://www.saturdaye...to_einstein.pdf

And yet, Jesus is also vague. If I knew how to create "authentic vitality" in a literary character who can be described, by different readers, with a straight face, as a gay man, a woman in drag (The Way), a married man with three wives (some Mormons), a middle-aged virgin (many mainline Christians), ... well, anyway, I'd bet there's money in it :) .

I was also just thinking back to Jung saying Christ was the archetype for the self, but I had pulled out Aion and was reading he said that he also was only one half of the archetype, the other the ant-Christ.

Yes, and I think the Old Testament God doesn't have a Christian-style devil, because he is a God in full. He has a darkness, and doesn't give a rat's patootie who notices. He wants to make omelets, and he will break as many eggs as it takes. He doesn't need anybody's permission, least of all the hens'.

Christ, in one of the Jungian analyses, is shadow-less. That cannot be, since casting a shadow is not an optional feature for a real human being. What is optional is being conscious or unconscious of the shadow you cast. Well, a big honking demon with hooves, goat horns and a red wardrobe is easy to be conscious of, and your fans can pretend that he's really somebody else.

We know that the shadow is a tool for projection, but maybe they both are. Maybe all archetypes are?

I think the way it works is that all archetypes are avilable for identification, which is, I suppose, a kind of internal projection. Anyway, it's a bad idea - more or less literally living in myth. Archetypes that have become bound to unconscious contents, as Anim- and Shadow reliably have, are what are available for projection onto others. Something like that :) .

but how often did he do this without an audience?

That's where the Twelve come in, right? There always was an audience. After he has assembled his Twelve, the big thing Jesus does alone, unintentionally, is the scene at Gethsemane. I have some sympathy for him that his remaining friends nod off on him. On the other hand, it is odd that he breaks off from talking with Almighty God to check on his entourage. Twice.

That scene from John

The line about the poor, like most of Jesus' rhetoric, is in the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 15: 11. It's funny what you can come up with during a spat with your best friend, isn't it?

Let us apply the Chloe test, that that which is "nonsensical and pointless" and yet spoken as if it were the very height of applicable common sense, is psychologically revealing. Jesus is improvising an ego-defense here. Judas is right. Jesus knows this, and knows that ego-inflation is dangerous ('You will not always have me"), but cannot help himself. It just feels so damned good to be the Lord, Master of Life and Death, and hurts so bad to be reminded that the mission isn't about him. He's dead within the week.

Maybe that's where some of Einstein's "authentic vitality" comes from, the psychological realism of what actually happens when there is an uncontrolled release of fatally attractive submerged contents. Jesus doesn't need individuality, he lived out the human condition for everybody.

Don't ask me about Bella, though :).

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Hmmm are you a deist or a theist? Or a Christian deist or Christian theist? If you are a deist the question does not seem weird, nor does it if you are a theist. I guess it would also not be weird if you are a Christian deist, but it may seem slightly weird if you are a Christian theist...

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i don't believe we all sinners coz of some one else's fault .. for god to assume we are sinners coz the sin of some one else . is not just

and if god is not just .. then we're screwed :D

imagin being punished for a crime your nighbors did

it's endless topic about god trust me i can only suggest you don't think about it lol

No, we are culpable for our own sins.

When we lie are we serving God?

When we cheat are we serving God?

When we steal are we serving God?

When we entertain bad thoughts are we serving God?

When we do bad and dishonest things to others are we serving God?

We suffer from spiritual illness and a separation from God that dates back to the Adam and Eve. We can not meet God even with works and good deeds. The Devil has taken all of us captive until we begin to exercise the authority of the Gospel. Christ spiritually heals this illness.

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When we entertain bad thoughts are we serving God?
Even God thinks "bad" thoughts.

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Posted (edited)

Even God thinks "bad" thoughts.

No, God does not think bad thoughts. Sin leads to destructrion, it is the path of destruction. Sin does not lead to salvation. Sin does not save, it is a spiritual malady.

Edited by dside

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No, God does not think bad thoughts. Sin leads to destructrion, it is the path of destruction. Sin does not lead to salvation. Sin does not save, it is a spiritual malady.

Sure has been alot of destruction that has followed "god".

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Sure has been alot of destruction that has followed "god".

No, you have it turned around backwards, alot of destruction has followed sin and wickedness.

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