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DKO

Atheist jailed for posting on Facebook -

83 posts in this topic

But its according to your ideas about morality not that of the nation in question.

Not sure what your trying to do here, turn this into a philosophical debate or really a political debate. Either way, I'm sorry, I just don't have the time to devote to that right now, but maybe later. Plus...you might get better results in one of the other forum sections, like: U.S.A. -->U.S. Politics. If you were to start a thread about this particular subject in that forum section.

Anyway, just a suggestion for ya.

Cheers

Mr Right Wing

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Not sure what your trying to do here, turn this into a philosophical debate or really a political debate. Either way, I'm sorry, I just don't have the time to devote to that right now, but maybe later. Plus...you might get better results in one of the other forum sections, like: U.S.A. -->U.S. Politics. If you were to start a thread about this particular subject in that forum section.

America is not a perfect country

It is riddled with financial corruption, political corruption, human rights violations, social problems, inequalities, etc. It might not be apparent to you as you watch a tramp eating out of a bin or underage girl pushing a pram down the street that America has problems but dont expect people in other countries to blind themselves to the flaws of Liberal Democracy.

People are not perfect

Perfect people can live in a free society without causing problems. However in reality there are a lot of people out there riddled with corruption, greed, deviant behaviour, irresponsibility, narcissism, etc. Thats why the extra freedom that people are given in a Liberal Democracy also gives you the broken society you have.

People in other countries down want Americas ideology just like you dont want theres. You look at their flaws they look at yours.

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Dougeaton, after my personal experience of dealing with religious types such as yourself, while I do not wish yourself to be put into say a camp or some form of isolation simply due to my disagreement of your views, I do feel strongly relieved that I am seperated from you by some distance and can feel some justification in the belief you will not achieve any great political power.

As far as different cultures are concerned, I feel there is a point where you don't get to just sit aside and let something off as just part of the culture.

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Actually continual studies show that the rates of violence have steadily decreased as we move from historical and pre-historical times, even counting the wars of the last couple of centuries. Now this is talking percentage wise related to population, you do have some increase due to population.

Steven Pinker has a good book on this, actually.

Unfortunately, violence is a really cheap news story so we certainly hear about it more.

As for those decrying the evil of Islam, itself, remember that one of the most famous evil men was a proud Christian. The fault does not rest on the religion, though the religion can provide the needed excuses.

EXACTLY! I try to explain this to everyone, it provides excuses and ways to control people. It allows for people to emotionally and mentally controlled by rewards given to them after death for following scriptures written back since the beginning of time out of ignorance and knowledge about the world around them. I rather be an Atheist and understand the world around, to help better the world and create a more positive life than to be stuck in medieval scriptures that involve burning or stoning people who doesn't agree or convert.

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Posted (edited)

doug, you're so close to the mark back there it isn't funny.. or maybe it is ;)

I rather be an Atheist and understand the world around,

i agree with what you said about 'controlling them in the afterlife' (paraphrased) but how a "godless" (ie: meaningless) view of the world brings you (and any so called athiest) any understanding is beyond me....???? i'd be so happy if you were to reply 100 pages of info for me on that, really..

..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

Edited by unit

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i agree with what you said about 'controlling them in the afterlife' (paraphrased) but how a "godless" (ie: meaningless) view of the world brings you (and any so called athiest) any understanding is beyond me....???? i'd be so happy if you were to reply 100 pages of info for me on that, really..

..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

Godless isn't the same as meaningless. Anyway what makes you think anyone wants to live in such a world?

By the sounds of it, God keeps you from acting on your psychotic urges.

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doug, you're so close to the mark back there it isn't funny.. or maybe it is ;)

i agree with what you said about 'controlling them in the afterlife' (paraphrased) but how a "godless" (ie: meaningless) view of the world brings you (and any so called athiest) any understanding is beyond me....???? i'd be so happy if you were to reply 100 pages of info for me on that, really..

..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

You phrase the question as though religious beliefs confer with it morality. Yet I don't need to list examples showing this is not so because they are so common.

I have plenty of meaning in life. There's the somewhat basic interactions I have here, with people who's intelligence and comments I respect. There's my nieces who look to me as a substitue father, there's my friends and family. There's my job.

There's the work I do with various atheist and skeptical groups (though here admittedly at a very basic level).

I find much more meaning in private and close conversations with friends, canoeing down a freshwater spring, donating my time to cleaning said spring, helping build housing for my less fortunate humans, or simply making sure my nieces have a great time with their uncle (even if at times they have to be subject to lectures concerning what little I know of science and history), I take much greater and deeper meaning from these and so much else in my life than any in my mind paltry concept of God or afterlife.

I know fellow atheists who state they abide by the law due to simple restraints of freedoms that would be put upon them should they break the laws. For myself, I am something of a coward. I would not be able to bear the disappointment of those I respect and love. Further, I feel I would present a poor example for those who foolishly look up to me.

Lastly, I find no desire in myself to do any great evil such as you've described. I think most are, regardless of their faith or lack there of, providing their culture is one similar to ours.

Now, to me the only way I can understand why you would feel such a question is relevant and to be taken seriously, is that either your own morality is so compromised by religious scriptures in place of morality, or your are a sociopath.

If the former, then I would encourage you to seek for yourself to determine what is and what is not moral. Seek justification and seek further answers, as there none who are perfect and your conclusions on morality could be well based on faulty premises.

If the latter, and your religious beliefs are truly all that is holding yourself in check from your above recommendations... I plead you to hold to your faith and ignore whatever arguments against it that come your way. Just don't hold your faith over another's.

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Wow! I never really liked the atheists, BUT to imprision an atheiste because he posted "God doesnt exist" is the same as a chirstain being put to death for not being Muslim.

I say, let God judge him and punish him. Is the person saying that Indoniesia doesnt or shouldnt exist? Or Is he saying something against the Indoniesian goverment? No? Than why is man judging and punishing another man over an insult to God? Can not God take care of himself. If he doesnt punish the man, than maybe he as a dam* good reason why.

In other words:What right do they have to do that?

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Religion is a tool to control masses of people to do the bidding of those who have the power of word over them, thus leads to stuff like this. I want nothing to do with religion if it will bring harm and death to those who want to express their individuality. To me religion is a medieval concept that has survived for far to long...

Nah you got the mixed up with advertising and government

doug

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Dougeaton, after my personal experience of dealing with religious types such as yourself, while I do not wish yourself to be put into say a camp or some form of isolation simply due to my disagreement of your views, I do feel strongly relieved that I am seperated from you by some distance and can feel some justification in the belief you will not achieve any great political power.

As far as different cultures are concerned, I feel there is a point where you don't get to just sit aside and let something off as just part of the culture.

Actullay I am an agostic.....not too sure about much...I to am happy not to be too close to many atheist, but I do have some friends who are in fact atheist...

doug

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doug, you're so close to the mark back there it isn't funny.. or maybe it is ;)

i agree with what you said about 'controlling them in the afterlife' (paraphrased) but how a "godless" (ie: meaningless) view of the world brings you (and any so called athiest) any understanding is beyond me....???? i'd be so happy if you were to reply 100 pages of info for me on that, really..

..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

You got me mixed up with someone else, that was not my quote. Mark and I are friends---if you are talking about markdohle, so to be a little like him is not an insult....we don't agree on God, religion etc.....just as I usually don't agree with most atheist...there are some exceptions. Also I like to prod or goad :passifier:

doug :su:whistle::st

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Actullay I am an agostic.....not too sure about much...I to am happy not to be too close to many atheist, but I do have some friends who are in fact atheist...

doug

Anyone who spoke as you do has the same mentality as the worst of those who style themselves religious.

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Anyone who spoke as you do has the same mentality as the worst of those who style themselves religious.

Some of his posts in Spirituality vs Skepticism definitely gives that impression.
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Why is it.. if you hear for example .. someone going off about how they are against a certain kind of people... maybe against their faith or way of life... The second someone says - Hey that is harsh, or Hey isn't that a tad racist? They automatically say - No wait.. umm I have friends who are.. gay, black, atheist, jewish...ect lol... All of a sudden these friends just pop up out of nowhere..

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Every nation has its own laws and culture which its citizens need to follow. If the guy breaks the laws or social norms in his country (as he has) he deserves what he gets.

You would NOT say that IF he were Christian and was jailed for practising his faith in a society that bans it... You would rant on about how his beliefs are discriminated lol .

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What they are doing to this guy is stright up wrong but I think everyone is missing the elephant in the room....

"According to Indonesian human rights activists, Aan's case is part of a growing trend towards religious intolerance, with members of non-Muslim religious minorities also facing attack from the country's increasingly influential religious conservatives, despite the legal protection ostensibly offered to the followers of some non-Islamic faiths."

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Posted (edited)

Religion is a tool to control masses of people to do the bidding of those who have the power of word over them, thus leads to stuff like this. I want nothing to do with religion if it will bring harm and death to those who want to express their individuality. To me religion is a medieval concept that has survived for far to long...

I disagree. Religion has done a lot of good for humanity (Red Cross/Crescent, Salvation Army, Mother Theresa, etc.) The problem lies where and when religion becomes tied to the government.

Edited by Likely Guy

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..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

Since atheists are no more likely to kill, rape or rob banks than anyone else, then maybe you could have a go and answer that one yourself. It's a good question.

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I disagree. Religion has done a lot of good for humanity (Red Cross/Crescent, Salvation Army, Mother Theresa, etc.) The problem lies where and when religion becomes tied to the government.

I don't see that as really altogether accurate. You see, it's not any religion that "has done a lot of good for humanity", but really only individuals that have "done a lot of good for humanity". These individuals just happen to be members of a religion or a charity group. Take for instance the individual you mentioned in your post, Mother Teresa, it seems to me she did a lot of humane things on her own with or without the Catholic Church's blessing. And it's not so much "where and when religion becomes tied to the government", but when organized religion acts like a government by dictating how others should morally act and obey their god's law or commandment.

Getting back to the individuals who do good for humanity, these individuals don't really need organized religion or organized groups to do humane things for their fellow man or woman. As matter of fact, an atheist can and have, "do a lot of good for humanity" as well. Yet the funny thing is, atheists don't have a religion or belong to a organized religion (well so far they don't, hope they keep it that way) and yet many times we see them do humane things for humanity.

The real problem with organized religion, is often it becomes tainted and corrupted from within. And too many (unlike Mother Teresa) who belong or serve a particular religion make it so, because all they want is power and wealth over others. They (organized religions) don't do, act much like, or concentrate on the things that are really important like Mother Teresa did in her lifetime, they just want to mold the world in their way, regardless whether others suffer because of them, and forget the one important rule...the golden rule. Which get's back to my other statement about organized religion acting like a government towards their fellow human being, by laying down moral laws and protesting, chastising and demeaning someone when he/she dosen't want or have to conform to their way of religious thinking.

I think the world could do without organized religion or religions, but the world could do with more Mother Teresa(s).

What was it that Gandhi said? "God has no religion". Maybe that's something all of us should take in consideration for us as well.

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:whistle::su Hmmmmm perhaps they should do that here....put atheist in prison. Things would be a lot more quiet around the web.....it would be nice if Dawkins could be put in solitary, away from any kind of communication....ahhh that would be heaven......well I don't believe in heaven but it could start here.

Ok just joking........I don't hate atheist as much as I pretend to, but I don't like them very much either....well maybe one or two, the rest are just angry about everything.....just my experience so I am sure there are a few out there who are decent, normal human beings :tsu: ......just a few though :yes: . As long as they stay out of politcs, then let them be.....can't imagine how an atheist could represent normal people....the ones I know seem to have aspergers pretty bad :alien: .....which I have heard afflics many....than anwers a lot of questions why so many of them whine so much :cry: when they are not angry <_< . Well most of them are liberals after all. Actually, fundie believer and village atheist dance together a lot......yawn!!!! boring....I know I am boring as well, get over it ;-).

Actually I could be joking about the above, or not, you decide :mellow::unsure::blink::angry: .

Why?

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I disagree. Religion has done a lot of good for humanity (Red Cross/Crescent, Salvation Army, Mother Theresa, etc.) The problem lies where and when religion becomes tied to the government.

Remove Mother Theresa. She's a gimmick. She had some strange views on human sufferring.

She might have been used by the catholic church though. Mind thats an organisation which covered up systematic rape of innocent children.

And told Africans condoms don't work. In a continent ravaged by aids thats tantamount to genocide.

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Posted (edited)

doug, you're so close to the mark back there it isn't funny.. or maybe it is ;)

i agree with what you said about 'controlling them in the afterlife' (paraphrased) but how a "godless" (ie: meaningless) view of the world brings you (and any so called athiest) any understanding is beyond me....???? i'd be so happy if you were to reply 100 pages of info for me on that, really..

..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

I have donated to the poor, gave food to the hungry, sheltered the homeless, brighten an child's day, lend an hand to those in hard times, tipped more than average for a college student, sacrificed my social life to take of my mother, live without money so others may, work for free when others can't pay, and constantly take my time to help others understand. And I do this all without god or religion in my life, because I strive for a better world for my family and others. I don't strive to be rewarded in the afterlife, because then I will truly become an morally poor individual by sacrificing others for the sake of myself. Never have I been so happy in my life than when I was under an non-existent god, because in my ignorance I feared for my afterlife and was selfish in my reasons in life.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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".......his case has led to calls for his execution by hardline Islamists"

Would that be the same Islam that calls itself the 'Religion of Peace' and whose Holy Book forbids the taking of life?

So does that mean every act the KKK does is representative of Protestant Christianity? Or rather just Christians themselves.

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Well this is just garbage!!!! I feel for the man!!!

As far as the comment about crime etc. steadily on the decline, i dont think thats truly accurate. Is the population explosion included? Our population world wide is growing at a fast rate. So is the crime and what not actually going down or is the crime per person ratio showing a slight decline because of the growth??? Just a thought.....

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Anyone who spoke as you do has the same mentality as the worst of those who style themselves religious.

You need to get over yourself, get an anal probe and let loose.

doug

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