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Waspie_Dwarf

[Merged] Did we land on the moon?

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What is the image, that convinced me most, that this is a hoax? The famous Buzz Aldrin portrait:

astronaut_on_moon_shadows.jpg

Fake! In shadow side, the astroNOT could not be light up like a Xmass tree. Shadows from sun are never cast in different directions, as we see (Aldrin shadow vs. rock in back shadow). And also Moon should not end at about 10meters from the camera

Somebody doesn't understand perspective, vanishing points, how to draw shadow direction (the arrow for the shadow on the rock in the background is not drawn in the correct direction), exposure, or how to estimate distances (the rock in the background is farther than 10 meters.)

More Photoshopping? NASA deliver! :D

GPN_2000_001104_small2.jpg

( http://grin.hq.nasa....2000-001104.jpg )

curves input 9, output 255 ;)

as17_134_20382_small2.jpg

( http://spaceflight.n...7-134-20382.jpg )

curves input 24, output 255 ;)

I don't see evidence of photoshop but I do see evidence of jpeg artifacts. Why do you insist on pointing out compression errors on a lossy format?

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Here we Go again ! The Wheels on the Short Buss Go Round,& Round ! We Landed on the Moon and That`s That ! Want to Move on to the next test ?

When did this planet get dumber ? :nw:

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Lets do it again and see what we see, live feed of Neils original footprints from the lander. Oh wait now adays anything can be spoofed.

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skyeagle409 -

:rofl:

This is insane comparsion at best.

Radiation dose absorbed by exam using X-rays range from 0.01 mRems for Skull (0.000 01 rem) to 0.7 mRems for pelvis (0.000 7 rem).

http://hps.org/docum...diagimaging.pdf

Radiation dose delivered by Van Allen belts are at around 300 to 11 666 rems/h.

Let's take a look at some real facts.

Astronaut Radiation Exposure and the Van Allen Belts

According to radiation dosimeters carried by Apollo astronauts, their total dosage for the entire trip to the moon and return was not more than 2 Rads over 6 days.

The total dosage for the trip is only 11.4 Rads in 52.8 minutes. Because 52.8 minutes is equal to 0.88 hours, his is equal to a dosage of 11.4 Rads / 0.88 hours = 13 Rads in one hour, which is well below the 300 Rads in one hour that is considered to be lethal.

Also, this radiation exposure would be for an astronaut outside the spacecraft during the transit through the belts. The radiation shielding inside the spacecraft cuts down the 13 Rads/hour exposure so that it is completely harmless.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Original scans of the Van Allen article:

th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195901.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195902.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195903.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195904.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195905.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195906.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195907.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195908.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195909.jpg th_VanAllenbeltsarticleMarch195910.jpg

Once again, why post something you do not understand? Now, let's look at some facts. These so called Van Allen belts, where the Earth's magnetic field collects solar radiation, would be dangerous only if people were to hang out there for several days. The astronauts whizzed through less than a matter of hours, and received a radiation dose similar to an X-ray.

Doug Millard

"You can pass through quite safely as long as you don't linger too long,"

Doug Millard at the Science Museum in London.

If you are going to debunk something, at least understand the science before letting everyone know how much you don't know.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Radiation Protection During Space Flight, December 1983, Journal of aviation, space and enviromental medicine, E. E. Kovalev

First - SAA, a lower tip of the belts with a very very light radiation of about 2,5 rem/h at 445km:

However this "light radiation dip" kill Hubble electronic, so they end up shutting Hubble off when it pass thru this region of increased radioactivity. If they try picture something during the SAA transit, then even when the shutter is closed (!) and the picture should be pitch black then, it looks like that:

(book The Hubble Wars, page 75)

So, this is how 2.5 rems/h radioactivity looks like!

Now imagine the hell, that it in the belts... add the fact, that aluminium is actually worsening the problem because of secondary particle fragmentation and you get the cooked astroNOT long before the CSM exit the belts :)

Ships with crew can't fly there w/o special shielding: "Flights of manned spacecraft in the central zone of the ERB are impossible without special shielding.".

Radiation_protection_in_space_ERB_impossible.jpg

But no rocket can carry up such shielding. Some astrophysicist suggest that the radiation exposure is "manageble" when there is at least 2 meters of water shielding. Earth give us the equivalent of 10 meters... and if you want go anywhere near the Sun, the requirments grow exponentially.

Why do you think we can't get even to the damn Moon?!

Read the rest of the story.

Apollo Moon Missions Through the Van Allen Belts

The Apollo missions marked the first event where humans traveled through the Van Allen belts, which was one of several radiation hazards known by mission planners. The astronauts had low exposure in the Van Allen belts due to the short period of time spent flying through them. The command module's inner structure was an aluminum "sandwich" consisting of a welded aluminium inner skin, a thermally bonded honeycomb core, and a thin aluminium "face sheet". The steel honeycomb core and outer face sheets were thermally bonded to the inner skin.

Radiation was not an operational problem during the Apollo Program. Doses received by the crewmen of Apollo missions 7 through 17 were small because no major solar-particle events occurred during those missions. One small event was detected by a radiation sensor outside the Apollo 12 spacecraft, but no increase in radiation dose to the crewmen inside the spacecraft was detected. Solar-particle releases are random events, and it is possible that flares, with the accompanying energetic nuclear particles, might hinder future flights beyond the magnetosphere of the Earth.

Radiation protection for the Apollo Program was focused on both the peculiarities of the natural space radiation environment and the increased prevalence of manmade radiation sources on the ground and onboard the spacecraft. Radiation-exposure risks to crewmen were assessed and balanced against mission gain to determine mission constraints. Operational radiation evaluation required specially designed radiation-detection systems onboard the spacecraft in addition to the use of satellite data, solar observatory support, and other liaison. Control and management of radioactive sources and radiation-generating equipment was important in minimizing radiation exposure of ground-support personnel, researchers, and the Apollo flight and backup crewmen.

http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/books/apollo/S2ch3.htm

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Now according to NASA, they are "in the belts" for a hour to the voyage to the Moon and hour back.

Suggest you check out the actual trajectories of the Apollo missions. They went nowhere near the equators of the belts where the highest radiation levels are, but instead passed through at high belt latitudes with much lower radiation levels.

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This is, what NASA calls "live video feed":

Original video (Spacecraft Films, leč NASA videa jsou Public Domain) there:

http://ulozto.cz/xhy...ag-ceremony-wmv

So, from when "live video" contains cuts to another, differently set, camera? On the Moon should be a) only one TV cam on the Rover and not two, b) in live video is impossible to have cuts!

Apollo TV went through an elaborate conversion process from the original to something compatible with commercial television, so more than one version from the original source could have been produced. The original source is not VHS and would be most likely recorded with the rest of the downlink so as to be available for reprocessing. Spacecraftfilms edit their discs to get the best coverage of each sequence. I suggest that what you are looking at is such an edit between two different versions of the video. Have you asked Spacecraftfilms about this? If not, why not? Edited by flyingswan

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Suggest you check out the actual trajectories of the Apollo missions. They went nowhere near the equators of the belts where the highest radiation levels are, but instead passed through at high belt latitudes with much lower radiation levels.

Yep.

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postbaguk -

AS17_146_22293_4.jpg

:yes::clap:

Indeed you are right - things can be much easier to be seen looking at entire images :tu: Except it just prove your perspective is way, way off :tu: Thanks for the tip!

Once you see both images in full, it's easy to figure out that the rock in question is hidden behind the large rock.

Where you see LM on these images? :D Looks like that to see the hoax being revealed make you see things... witch there are not :)

Well, you got me there! Must have had too much Christmas punch. Obviously I meant lunar rover, not LM.

You are hallucinating again, don't you? First the LM, then "different media" to record live feed... :w00t: This is getting better every second :)))

I linked to 2 different formats on the ALSJ website, MOV and MPG. Going back to when the missions were on, they were recorded onto master tapes, (2" magnetic analog), and kinescope format, which by its nature is of lesser quality. I suspect that when Mark Gray of Spacecraft Films was sifting through the available footage, he was mixing and matching the best he could get for certain sequences. You could always email him and ask directly, the email address is available off his website.

info@spacecraftfilms.com

Could you tell me, how a live feed can be recorded to two different medias and could you elaborate on what media types are "different"? All the Apollo film reels seems to be the same to me, all using the pre-VHS digital tapes, no one ever claimed differently - yet you come with this absolutely unfounded allegation, just to prove that you can't argue with facts on your side, only on false allegations?

Come on :)

See above, 2" master magnetic tape, and kinescope. If you don't know what kinescope is, Google it. Any further questions you have should be addressed to the person who made the DVD set.

Sure, just if that was not already debunked by practice testing:

[media=]

[/media]

Firstly, static electricity. Please explain in the clip where White calibrated the static field of a balloon rubbed on his hair with the static field of a spacesuit on the lunar surface. Does he also establish that the two flags are made of the same material, as this has a big effect on any static field that may be present.

Secondly, atmospheric damping. Look closely at the Apollo flag after it starts moving. It swings regularly with a pendulum-like swing. Compare to White's flag as he moves past it. It billows, and is very rapidly damped by the atompshere.

This is what? A joke? I hope so... First, it is uninportant, when Apollo supposedly landed on Moon. Important is, when the bag and photo was put on the surface and when it was photographed. If you check there:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/catalog/70mm/magazine/?117

or there:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/images16.html

...you easily at the first look can see, that the picture in question ( AS16-117-18841 ) is taken at the end of EVA 3.

There: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.clsout3.html#1700154 you can read, that: "170:03:17 - At about this time, Charlie places a photo of the Duke Family on the surface and takes three photos, AS16-117- 18839, 18840, and 18841."

From Wiki we got these informations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_16

Launch date - April 16, 1972, 17:54:00 UTC

Lunar landing - April 21, 1972, 02:23:35 UTC, Descartes Highlands

Lunar EVA duration - First 07:11:02, Second 07:23:09, Third 05:40:03

So, without even calculating anything it looks like that the photo placement will be happening in near Moon noon. So, the argument is BUSTED :) This photo cannot be taken on the Moon.

That's what happens when you don't calculate things. The sun angle at the end of the 3rd EVA was 48.7 degrees. If it was directly overhead, the angle would be 90 degrees.

Now, you can calculate the maximum temperature using the method described here:-

http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunar_Temperature

(In this example they measure angles from the perpendicular to the surface, rather than parallel to the surface, so remember to do a simple conversion).

Please do the calculation, and post the result here. Cheers.

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Apollo TV went through an elaborate conversion process from the original to something compatible with commercial television, so more than one version from the original source could have been produced. The original source is not VHS and would be most likely recorded with the rest of the downlink so as to be available for reprocessing. Spacecraftfilms edit their discs to get the best coverage of each sequence. I suggest that what you are looking at is such an edit between two different versions of the video. Have you asked Spacecraftfilms about this? If not, why not?

If you want to claim "hoax", you don't talk to experts.

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skyeagle409 - you seems to confused on the dose part of the message. In the belts you get 1 166 600 000 higher dose that getting X-ray :)

flyingswan - and did you seen the trajectory and the table there?

2dqvgug.jpg

It clearly state the doses for different inclinations and there is even pole inclination (90°) - hence your fancy images are proven to be WRONG :) If you can "overlook" 75 000 rem/day (or 3125 rem/h) then the debate is pointless :) Death is granted in 400 rems in any short time (like 1h belt transit) - as Van Allen put it - even in rapid transit thru the belts... You seems not familiar with reading the data, do you?

postbaguk -

Please do the calculation, and post the result here. Cheers.

Why? The given temperature for equator is very similar to the temperature that NASA gives for equator. And anything above 65°C is deadly for the bag, so there is hardly any reason to do so. Where is your source of the Sun ange 48.7° at near the end of EVA 3 for Apollo 16?

Witch way was the Rover got there? I did not nee any tracks, not even close up :) According to the NASA LRO pictures, they should be PERFECTLY VISIBLE :D So, how come I did not see a thing?!

fopwly.jpg

( http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-137-21011HR.jpg )

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postbaguk -

Why? The given temperature for equator is very similar to the temperature that NASA gives for equator. And anything above 65°C is deadly for the bag, so there is hardly any reason to do so. Where is your source of the Sun ange 48.7° at near the end of EVA 3 for Apollo 16?

Why? Because the surface temperature when the photo was taken isn't the same as the maximum temperature when the sun is directly overhead. 48.7 degrees is a long way off 90 degrees.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-sunangles.html

Witch way was the Rover got there? I did not nee any tracks, not even close up :) According to the NASA LRO pictures, they should be PERFECTLY VISIBLE :D So, how come I did not see a thing?!

fopwly.jpg

( http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-137-21011HR.jpg )

Look at the whole image, not the crop. Look at the left hand edge of the image, level with the lunar rover, not the LM ;). You can clearly see the rover tracks if you look carefully enough.

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skyeagle409 - you seems to confused on the dose part of the message. In the belts you get 1 166 600 000 higher dose that getting X-ray :)

At no time did the astronauts receive letha doses of radiation. Apparently, it is YOU, who is confused, and it is all very simple to understand. Hold your hand in a flame of fire and you will receive a serious burn, however, run your hand through the flame to avoid buring yourself. It is the same with radiation as well.

Van Allen Belts

The figure below, produced by scientists from the NASA, CRRES satellite, shows the radiation dosages at various locations within the belts.

doserate1.gif

1. The speed of the spacecraft will be about 25,000 km/hour. If the spacecraft travels along the indicated path, how long, in minutes, will it spend in the Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange and Red regions?

Note: transit estimates may vary depending on how accurately students measure figure.

Blue: 1.8 Re x (6378 km/Re) x (1 hour/25,000 km) x (60 minutes/1 hour) = 27.6 minutes

Yellow: (1.4 x 6378) /25,000 x 60 = 6.1 minutes

Orange: (1.0 x 6378) / 25,000 x 60 = 15.3 minutes

Green: (0.25 x 6378)/25,000 x 60 = 3.8 minutes

Red: 0 minutes

Total transit time……………………… 52.8 minutes

2. Given the indicated radiation dosages in Rads/sec for each zone, what will be the dosages that the astronauts receive in each zone?

Blue: = 27.6 minutes x ( 60 sec/ 1 minute) x (0.0001 Rads/sec) = 0.17 Rads

Yellow = 6.1 minutes x 60 sec/minute x 0.005 rads/sec = 1.83 Rads

Orange = 15.3 minutes x (60 sec/minute) x 0.01 rads/sec = 9.18 Rads

Green = 3.8 minutes x (60 sec/minute) x 0.001 rads/sec = 0.23 Rads

3. What will be the total radiation dosage in Rads for the transit through the belts?

0.17 + 1.83 + 9.18 + 0.23 = 11.4 Rads

4. According to radiation dosimeters carried by Apollo astronauts, their total dosage for the entire trip to the moon and return was not more than 2 Rads over 6 days.

The total dosage for the trip is only 11.4 Rads in 52.8 minutes. Because 52.8 minutes is equal to 0.88 hours, his is equal to a dosage of 11.4 Rads / 0.88 hours = 13

http://www.braeunig....pollo11-TLI.htm

Now, show us where at any time, astronauts would have received lethal doses of radiation given the short transit time through the Van Allen belts, which was not through the high intensity area.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Why? Because the surface temperature when the photo was taken isn't the same as the maximum temperature when the sun is directly overhead. 48.7 degrees is a long way off 90 degrees.

http://www.hq.nasa.g...-sunangles.html

Look at the whole image, not the crop. Look at the left hand edge of the image, level with the lunar rover, not the LM ;). You can clearly see the rover tracks if you look carefully enough.

Its like talking to a brick wall in here right ? THe small incline in part hides the rover`s tracks as it climbed the hill ! Anyone with eyes can see it too ! I think many CT`s are just Really ? well I cant say it in here !

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Studies disagree with your assessment, Trodas:

raddata_3.jpg

table1.jpg

table2.jpg

raddata2.jpg

raddata.jpg

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Has anyone bothered to show the pictures of all the lunar landing sites from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter? All the sites are clearly visible and a link is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Reconnaissance_Orbiter

Not mention that the USSR could have been able to tell if the transmissions were coming from there or not and odds are they'd have shouted it to the world if it was a fake since we were in a space race with them at the time.

Sorry all you conspiracies and desires for it to be a lie simply will not wash. Let me know if I can solve any other puzzles for you.

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flyingswan - and did you seen the trajectory and the table there?

It clearly state the doses for different inclinations and there is even pole inclination (90°)

That would be the figure for a polar orbit, ie an orbit which crosses the poles but also crosses every other latitude and so passes through the centre of the belt twice per orbit, nineteen times a day at 3000 km. That is completely different from the Apollo trajectory which skimmed the outer edge of the belt twice in the entire mission. Edited by flyingswan

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keninsc - LRO pictures are photoshopped, proven long time ago:

[media=]

Edited by trodas

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keninsc - LRO pictures are photoshopped, proven long time ago:

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keninsc - LRO pictures are photoshopped, proven long time ago:

Yeah, sure. Everyone knows that the way to keep a secret is to tell it to more people, so to keep the hoax secret they send up a new probe to image the landing sites, and then recruit a whole new team of hoaxers to fake the new results.

But of course, they don't reckon with Jarrah White, who can unmask any conspiracy from the safety of his parents basement.

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keninsc - LRO pictures are photoshopped, proven long time ago:

skyeagle409 -

The figure below, produced by scientists from the NASA, CRRES satellite, shows the radiation dosages at various locations within the belts.

No, that is a lie. First at all, the graphic cut thru the Belts are fake. Show me one image like that that is scientific and come from credible souce.

Another problem is, that it was YOU who painted the dots into the image the way they suit your argument.

If you bother researching a minute, then you will quickly realize how much you are mistaken. Apollos allegedly go right thru the belts at the same inclination, as out Moon have (quess why - they allegely shoot for the Moon!)

Now you know the Moon inclination and the table show the belts intensity for the inclination. Calculate, how million times greater the dose they will get, if they actually go to the Moon, that compared to classic chest X-ray :)

Then and maybe only then you will understand :)

And now it is time to hunt the Buzz alien:

AS11_40_5854_close_up.jpg

2x increased size, original is there http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/print/AS11/40/5854.jpg :w00t::clap:

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No, that is a lie. First at all, the graphic cut thru the Belts are fake. Show me one image like that that is scientific and come from credible souce.

The videos I posted earlier are correct. As is this page

http://www.braeunig....pollo11-TLI.htm

If you don't understand how it works with a curved path and the inclination of the moon then you don't understand how orbits work (of course you already showed that).

Of course it is also funny that you are blatantly ignoring the shielding they did have. Although I'm betting you probably just don't know, (and no it wasn't just aluminum)

And now it is time to hunt the Buzz alien:

AS11_40_5854_close_up.jpg

2x increased size, original is there http://www.lpi.usra....S11/40/5854.jpg

A flaw on the film is evidence?

Why is it so many hoax believers seem to love argumentum ad youtubem? Or Jarrah White? First he gets most of what he talks about completely wrong. Second his voice is so annoying I wonder how anyone could get through his videos in the first place (though that could explain how they get past the first part, they simply haven't watched them).

Edited by frenat
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No, that is a lie. First at all, the graphic cut thru the Belts are fake. Show me one image like that that is scientific and come from credible souce.

Here's a page about the radiation belts, with lots of references to the scientific literature:

http://www.spenvis.oma.be/help/background/traprad/traprad.html

Edited by flyingswan
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