Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

They started much later, in a time where there was already more awareness of the value of ancient cultures. Besides, they could no longer incorporate what they found into their cult, as they had done with much of the ancient European culture.

It left many more traces, but people who don't look for it don't see it, simply because it doesn't fit into their belief system. They ignore it.

And/or - as you yourself do - they say that those traces were sources on which the OLB is based (for example the Frisian and Greek 'mythology').

Nonsense: archeologists here dig up much that's thousands of years older than anything OLB. They don't hide anything. It's just that you want to believe in the same conspiracy theory about 'hiding the truth' as Otharus always did.

And yes: it's clear to me that those who created the OLB used a lot from old Frisian, German, Anglo-Saxon, Latin, and Greek legends and whatnot.

.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Did anyone read this recent book yet?

Verdwenen beschaving (en verborgen boodschappen uit het verre verleden in Nederland)

Lost civilization (and hidden messages from the distant past in the Netherlands)

Author: Eelco de Boer / February 2013

http://www.ako.nl/pr...692492888650755

http://kluwer-law-e-...9048427925.html

Dutch:

De nazi’s dachten dat de Germanen afstamden van een goddelijk volk, Ariërs geheten. Het Oera Linda Boek beschrijft dat de historie is begonnen bij een Oer-fries volk. Onderzoekende schrijvers als Charles de Grave, Theophile Cailleux en Iman Wilkens menen dat de Ilias juist onze streken beschreef. Ze zaten dicht bij de waarheid. Noord-West Europa is een gebied met een zeer oude historie. Prehistorische bouwwerken in dit deel van Europa, zoals Stonehenge en Carnac, zijn met geometrische lijnen met elkaar verbonden tot in Egypte, Israël en India aan toe. Al deze lijnen komen samen in Nederland. De top van de vrijmetselarij wist en weet dit. Hier in Nederland, waar op de grond sterrenbeelden zijn gevormd door volken uit het verre verleden, is bij deze adel en met name bij het koningshuis van Oranje, de herinnering bewaard gebleven. Zoals altijd verborgen de vrijmetselaars hun kennis en geheimen in het volle licht, ook bij de Oranjes. Waarom heet het huis van onze koningin Drakensteyn? Hun boot De Groene Draeck? Het huis in Italië Rocco dei Draconi en waarom liet prins Bernhard een draak op zijn lichaam tatoeëren? Op de grond in het hartje van Nederland ligt het sterrenbeeld Draak. Op de exacte knooppunten staan kerken. Zo staan er vele bijzonderheden in het boek.

English:

The Nazis believed that the Germans descended of a divine people called Aryans. The Oera Linda Book describes that history started with a primal Frisian people. Inquiring writers like Charles de Grave, Théophile Cailleux and Iman Wilkens believe that the Iliad precisely described our region. They were close to the truth. North-West Europe is a region with a very old history. Prehistoric buildings in this part of Europe, such as Stonehenge and Carnac, are connected to Egypt, Israel and India with geometric lines. All these lines come together in the Netherlands. The top of Freemasonry knew and knows this. Here in the Netherlands, where on the ground constellations have been formed by people from the distant past, the memory has been preserved with this nobility and particularly with the Royal House of Orange. As always the Masons hid their knowledge and secrets in full light, as did the Oranges. Why is the house of our queen called Drakensteyn ("Dragonstone")? Their boat De Groene Draeck ("The Green Dragon")? The house in Italy Rocco dei Draconi ("Dragon's Rock") and why did Prince Bernhard have a dragon tattooed on his body? On the ground in the heart of the Netherlands lies the constellation Draco. At the exact nodes are churches. There are many particularities like this in the book.

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Edited March 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Ott]

Nonsense: archeologists here dig up much that's thousands of years older than anything OLB. They don't hide anything.

It is a very well known and understood phenomenon from the philosophy of science, that finds that do not fit into the existing belief-system are refused or ignored, even by scientists.

It's just that you want to believe...

Do not think that you have any clue at all of what I "want to believe".

You can agree or disagree with what I say, but stop your "you have an agenda"-crap.

If we would all start talking like that, this thread will again derange.

[Abramelin]

It is a very well known and understood phenomenon from the philosophy of science, that finds that do not fit into the existing belief-system are refused or ignored, even by scientists.

Do not think that you have any clue at all of what I "want to believe".

You can agree or disagree with what I say, but stop your "you have an agenda"-crap.

If we would all start talking like that, this thread will again derange.

Oh, but it's ok for you to say I am brainwashed, right? And I never said you have an agenda, I said you wanted to believe in Otharus' conspiracy theory.

Anyway, archeologists have dug up enough to make us all think different about ancient Europe; just check what they found in Varna, Bulgaria: they found what could well be a true civilization we didn't even know existed. It's 6500 years old, far older than the Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations.

"New research, archaeologists and historians say, has broadened understanding of this long overlooked culture, which seemed to have approached the threshold of 'civilization' status. Writing had yet to be invented, and so no one knows what the people called themselves."

http://www.stonepage...ves/003623.html

.

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Edited March 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Ott]

Isn't it "amazing" (NOT) that we Dutch can read the OLB like it was written in our own language? OK, some words we have to look up in an Old Frisian dictionary...

You have the illusion that it is so easy, because from the beginning you had a translation at hand.

Many words are not yet found in a dictionary and can only be understood from the context.

Some examples (from Otharus):

[00b/03] THVSAND WÁRA

[004/05] ANDA BRVD SITTE

[004/08] THÀT SKOLD.IK NAVT NE MELDA

[004/14] BIJVNKA ALLE SKÍDNISA

[004/27] SA HAGATH J TO NVDANDE

[006/30] WR.ALDA.S OD TRÀD TO RA BINNA

[010/26] SWART ÀND NÍLOF FON TÁRA TO STIRTANE

[021/24] ÉWA THÉR THÉR.UT TAVLIKT SEND

[024/31] ÉR HI AN SINA RÉNA KVMTH

[029/31] THÀT RÉDER ÀFTER.WÉJA TO LÉTANE

[030/12] SA WÀRTH.ER BISTONDA MÀRK.BÉTEN

[038/23] THA SJAKA TO LÉVANDE

[052/12] VPPERA WÉSA NIS NINMER NÉN BLÍDSKIP TO BISJAN

[056/15] THAM LÉTON HINI BIDOBBA

[056/31] THÀT HÉDE THJU MODER BISJOWATH

[067/16] VMBE THÀT THA SJVRDA WELDICH ÀND ...

[068/13] THÀT WRDE DVM ÀND DOR

[076/28] VMBE THA MÀNNISKA TO DJAPANA

[081/04] HJARA HORSA FOR HJARA TOGUM

[083/26] DEL TRULED

[084/10] KÀMPA ÀND WOXELJA

[089/17] THJU FÉRE THÉRA IS WÉST

[099/20] MÀNNALIK ÀND BERLIK

[108/30] THRÉ GRÉVA BURCH.HÉRA

[114/13] IK GÍRDE HJA LING.SÍDE

[119/08] ROJADON SVME MITH EN SNÁKE

[151/13] BÀRGUM JEFTHA TONNUM FON THA BESTA BJAR

[155/11] WAS THÉR TEFTA EN ÉLLE LJAWE FÁM

The existing translations are also sometimes very different.

One example of many (also from O.):

[121/01] THACH HI THRJVCHDE LIK HI ÉR DÉN HÉDE

Ottema (1872): doch hij bedroog gelijk hij vroeger gedaan had

Jensma (2006): maar hij dreigde zoals hij eerder had gedaan

Ottema: but he deceived as he had done before

Jensma: but he threatened as he had done before

Conclusion: it is not as simple as Abramelin and Knul suggest.

[Ott]

Oh, but it's ok for you to say I am brainwashed, right?

Did I say or suggest that?

I said you wanted to believe in Otharus' conspiracy theory.

What is his 'conspiracy theory' and how do you know if I believe it?

[Ott]

Anyway, archeologists have dug up enough to make us all think different about ancient Europe

That is why eventually the paradigm will be adjusted.

[Abramelin]

You have the illusion that it is so easy, because from the beginning you had a translation at hand.

Many words are not yet found in a dictionary and can only be understood from the context.

Some examples (from Otharus):

The existing translations are also sometimes very different.

One example of many (also from O.):

Ottema: but he deceived as he had done before

Jensma: but he threatened as he had done before

Conclusion: it is not as simple as Abramelin and Knul suggest.

OK, just cut it: you are Otharus.

Yes, i did have a translation at hand, and after I got the hang of it, I could translate much without the use of that translation. I also discovered lots of mistakes and wrong interpretations.

And a quick look at your list of underlined words makes me understand that the reason these words are not understood is of the way they are spelled. A little change in any of them, and you can look then up in the Old Frisian dictionary.

[Abramelin]

Did I say or suggest that?

What is his 'conspiracy theory' and how do you know if I believe it?

Yes, you suggested it (go back one page):

"Also, you have been brainwashed for centuries with the idea that all of our culture came from the Romans and Greeks."

I really don't know where you got that idea from.

And I am not going to explain your own 'conspiracy theory' to you.

.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Ott]

after I got the hang of it, I could translate much without the use of that translation.

"Much" is not the same as 100% as you wanted us to believe earlier.

I also discovered lots of mistakes and wrong interpretations.

That only proves that it was not that simple in the 19th century.

It's much easier for us with our sources.

And a quick look at your list of underlined words makes me understand that the reason these words are not understood is of the way they are spelled. A little change in any of them, and you can look then up in the Old Frisian dictionary.

Have a better look.

I challenge you.

You may solve some if you try hard, but not all, and these are just a few random examples.

Your and Knul's statement that OLB is just a 100% word for word translation of Dutch into pseudo-Oldfrisian does not stand.

Very much of this thread has been about discussing words.

If it were as simple as you suggest there would not have been so much debate.

[Ott]

"Also, you have been brainwashed for centuries ...

That should have been "we have been".

[Ott]

... your own 'conspiracy theory'

I could label your theory that the OLB was concocted a 'conspiracy theory'.

It is a term often used to discredit 'alternative' explanations of an accepted reality.

It is a fallacy.

Let's not go there.

[Ott]

"you are Otharus"

Wishful thinking?

No seriously, cut that crap, unless you want me banned too.

And clean up your inbox if you want to receive PM's.

I have studied his work from the start, but do not agree with or like everything he wrote.

And he let me use a transcription file he made.

We have more in common, so no wonder if I sound similar.

[Ott]

The verb "to be" is in Dutch "zijn" and in German "sein".

This word may well be related to East-Asian, "Zen", although of course, the mainstream explanation is different.

[Ott]

What happened in German with the name of this weekday offers a good example of how the priesthood has tried to change our language and wipe out older traditions.

From the German wiki:

The name [Mittwoch = midweek] is in use since the 10th century. With this name, the christian missionaries avoided memory of pre-christian deities in the German speaking lands, that remained in foreign terminology.

This was just one example (from Germany) of how "we have been brainwashed for centuries".

If is possible to exterminate a word (in one language only in this case), then it is easily thinkable how books, treasures, buildings etc. got lost, with the same motive. The most important buildings will just have been replaced with a new, bigger and stronger one on the same spot.

This just to illustrate that my idea of "brainwashing" by the church is not merely a "conspiracy theory".

IMO there are plenty of examples, but that would be worth another thread.

If you don't agree, very well, let's disagree for now and move on.

[Apol]

It is true, and what Apol translated into Norse may look the same, but there are enough sentences in the OLB he cannot translate into Norse using the same word order.

The Christians may have destroyed much of our culture and so on, but they were not capable to destroy all of the Aztec and Mayan cultures, though they have done their best at it. Archeologists still dig up artifacts belonging to those cultures.

A culture that was supposed to be all over Europe only left ONE trace: a manuscript in a village in the Netherlands. Who believes that?

Plus: I never suggested that all of our culture came from the Romans and Greeks. If you really believe that, then you should read what I really posted throughout these years.

That is true - few believes that. And that's one of the problems. In fact there are found a lot of archaeological evidence that Northern Europe was inhabited millennias ago. There are thousands and thousands of traces. The North European cultures were seemingly not as occupied with cutting buildings and other monuments from stone as was the case in southern lands. The Egyptian culture was preserved thanks to all the stone and the arid climate. If the northerners only wrote on some sort of paper, or on wood, all writing would certainly also have disintegrated by now. The rest would have been destroyed by conquerors. At the same time, the population in the northern areas was not that big.

The other problem is that no one believes in things that suddenly drops down and tell another story than the one we are used to hear. Man has sent a sonde with pictures of our species and some other information about us into space. I think: "ha, ha, ha!" Well, possible species in other solar systems might be far more developed than us, and be able to handle the situation otherwise than here, if they should happen to find this plaque. But who will believe a terrestrial astronaut saying that he has picked up a plaque in space telling about advanced life in the Andromeda? No one! Except from some cranks, who possibly will make some websites on the Internet. And some unserious TV channels and magazines will surely make some articles and films about it. Scientists will say that the plaque obviously was made on Earth and smuggled into space by this astronaut. And he will have a lot of trouble - he will be ridiculed and possibly even make suicide. No matter how much evidence there might exist for the plaque's authenticity - it will not help AT ALL. Then people are listening to what the scientists tell, and everybody is satisfied.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Apol

[Abramelin]

That is true - few believes that. And that's one of the problems. In fact there are found a lot of archaeological evidence that Northern Europe was inhabited millennias ago. There are thousands and thousands of traces. The North European cultures were seemingly not as occupied with cutting buildings and other monuments from stone as was the case in southern lands. The Egyptian culture was preserved thanks to all the stone and the arid climate. If the northerners only wrote on some sort of paper, or on wood, all writing would certainly also have disintegrated by now. The rest would have been destroyed by conquerors. At the same time, the population in the northern areas was not that big.

The other problem is that no one believes in things that suddenly drops down and tell another story than the one we are used to hear. Man has sent a sonde with pictures of our species and some other information about us into space. I think: "ha, ha, ha!" Well, possible species in other solar systems might be far more developed than us, and be able to handle the situation otherwise than here, if they should happen to find this plaque. But who will believe a terrestrial astronaut saying that he has picked up a plaque in space telling about advanced life in the Andromeda? No one! Except from some cranks, who possibly will make some websites on the Internet. And some unserious TV channels and magazines will surely make some articles and films about it. Scientists will say that the plaque obviously was made on Earth and smuggled into space by this astronaut. And he will have a lot of trouble - he will be ridiculed and possibly even make suicide. No matter how much evidence there might exist for the plaque's authenticity - it will not help AT ALL. Then people are listening to what the scientists tell, and everybody is satisfied.

I do not and never did say Europe wasn't inhabited thousands of years ago, That's just silly; you should really look up other forums of this site, and see my posts and threads there.

You say the arid climate in Egypt preserved artifacts, but even in the Netherlands we find artifacts - made of wood for god's sake - that are many, many thousands of years old. In fact the oldest known boat or better, canoe, was found in Pesse, Drenthe. I have posted about remnants discovered in the Netherlands of very modern looking long-houses found in Elsloo., 5000 BCE, pics and all. Minoan amber seals and utensils (1100 BCE) in the German Bight, Minoan/Mycaenian srcipt engraved on some rock in Sweden (1700 BCE). A Bronze Age find in Schleswig-Holstein, a bronze artifact depicting a six-spoked wheel belonging to some priest.

I have posted about lots of archeological finds made here, in the Netherlands, while all of you keep nitpicking about some word or sentence.

And, btw, the OLB mentions inscriptions on the stone walls of the citadels/burghs. That is STONE, not paper.

.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

This word may well be related to East-Asian, "Zen", although of course, the mainstream explanation is different.

Nah, an Otharus would not post something like that.

Sorry, you are not Otharus.

[Abramelin]

Does any of you have something of a respons to this post of mine (it's about language, so you all should love it) :

http://www.unexplain...3

In case you have 'link-phobia', here it is again:

I have been thinking a lot about the Hittites these last days, and not only because I have been posting about them in another thread on UM.

Their language is the oldest recorded Indo-European language, and so I thought that their language should resemble the OLB Fryan language a lot, because the further back in time you go, the more these Indo-European languages should resemble one another.

That, alas, is not the case. If you think otherwise, try to read the Hittite language with your knowledge of the Fryan language.

Historical Dictionary of the Hittites - by Charles Burney

http://books.google....hattusa&f=false

http://blog.world-my...re-of-hittites/

http://miltiade.page.../hittitesGB.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattusa

THE HITTITES

THE STORY OF A FORGOTTEN EMPIRE.

BY A. H. SAYCE, LL.D. Second Edition 1890.

http://www.gutenberg...3-h/40243-h.htm

http://www.keithhunt.com/Hittite.html

http://www.sjsu.edu/...ins/hittite.htm

http://www.thelatinl...s/hittites.html

Vadar, water, Wasser-how staggering it is to realise that with three thousand years intervening, a Frisian living on the North Sea coast of Germany and a Pennsylvania Dutchman of eastern North America would understand a Hittite's cry of thirst!

http://www.aai.frees...the Scripts.htm

But don't get too exited: it is about just a couple of words.

-

This understanding has affected the view of the language family in general. It is now clear that Sanskrit and Greek, with their large number of verbal inflections, developed these after the disruption of the Indo-European family. Among their new developments is the augment, which is found only in Indo-Iranian, Greek, and Armenian. Even in the Homeric language it is not yet used in all forms that require it in Classical Greek. Moreover, Germanic with its much simpler verbal inflection is closer to that of the proto-language and more similar to Hittite than are Sanskrit and Greek. We account for the similarity by assuming that Germanic, like Hittite, was one of the first to leave when the various languages split away from the parent language and that both maintained many of its features, which were later modified in Indo-Iranian, Greek, Latin, and other dialects.

The Source of the Hittites and their Dominance in Central Anatolia

It is generally assumed that the Hittites entered Anatolia some time before 2000 B.C. While their earlier location is disputed, there has been strong evidence for more than a century that the home of the Indo-Europeans in the fourth and third millennia was in what is now southern Russia and the Ukraine. The Hittites and other member of the "Anatolian" language-speaking family, then, came from the north, possibly along the Caspian Sea but perhaps more likely via the Balkans. The dominant inhabitants in central Anatolia at the time were the Hatti (from whom the word "Hittite" was later derived). There were also Assyrian colonies in the country; it was from these that the Hittites adopted cuneiform script.

http://www.utexas.ed.../hitol-0-X.html

http://history-world...ittitesrise.htm

.

Funny, though, because there are those who think the Chatti are no one else but the Hatti or Hittites, who disappeard into thin air...

I read somehwere - Google it, I lost the link - that their kings were called "Kheti-siri" the 'sirs of the Hatti'?

And what people thought about the Hittites was based on what the Bible told us about them, but that was long after the hayday of the Hittites.

The OLB talks about colonies in Greece and Crete (and it mentions Troy), so if it's all true, they SHOULD have known about these Hittites.

But there is not ONE word about them in the OLB. Why? Because in the 19th century not much was known about these Hittites.

And they were a people to be reckoned with, as the ancient Egyptians and Israelites were well aware of.

.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Knul]

But there is not ONE word about them in the OLB. Why? Because in the 19th century not much was known about these Hittites.

.

Exactly.

[Abramelin]

Exactly.

Thank you.

Now I ask you: will you agree when a post a link to the Stormfront site, where HLH/Otharus is posting?

I don't want you to report me as some kind of nazi again, I have been banned from that stupid site already for not being "White" enough.

.

[Abramelin]

Does any of you have something of a respons to this post of mine (it's about language, so you all should love it) :

http://www.unexplain...3

The OLB talks about colonies in Greece and Crete (and it mentions Troy), so if it's all true, they SHOULD have known about these Hittites.

But there is not ONE word about them in the OLB. Why? Because in the 19th century not much was known about these Hittites.

And they were a people to be reckoned with, as the ancient Egyptians and Israelites were well aware of.

.

[Apol]

I do not and never did say Europe wasn't inhabited thousands of years ago, That's just silly; you should really look up other forums of this site, and see my posts and threads there.

You say the arid climate in Egypt preserved artifacts, but even in the Netherlands we find artifacts - made of wood for god's sake - that are many, many thousands of years old. In fact the oldest known boat or better, canoe, was found in Pesse, Drenthe. I have posted about remnants discovered in the Netherlands of very modern looking long-houses found in Elsloo., 5000 BCE, pics and all. Minoan amber seals and utensils (1100 BCE) in the German Bight, Minoan/Mycaenian srcipt engraved on some rock in Sweden (1700 BCE). A Bronze Age find in Schleswig-Holstein, a bronze artifact depicting a six-spoked wheel belonging to some priest.

I have posted about lots of archeological finds made here, in the Netherlands, while all of you keep nitpicking about some word or sentence.

And, btw, the OLB mentions inscriptions on the stone walls of the citadels/burghs. That is STONE, not paper.

.

We don't know where the inscriptions were placed - if they were written on the very burgh-walls or on the walls of the houses inside the burghs. The houses may have been made of materials other than stone. In the burgh of Ljudgârda they were made of bricks. If the writings were on the burgh-walls, or on stone in general, we do not know whether they were cut into the stone or painted onto it. Moreover, the inscriptions on the burgh-walls would have been the very first that would fall prey to the conquerors' ravage - they would have been annihilated in the most thorough ways. Another problem is that today the remnants of several of the ancient burghs seem to lay under cities.

There you see, the six spoked wheel of the Bronze Age priest may be one artifact with correlation to the OLB. The point is that what has survived the ravages of time, and what has not, is quite random.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Apol

[NO-ID-EA]

[media=]

[/media]

As i keep being told !.... just because someone is given a name at some time in history does not mean you are going to find traces of them under that name , the name may have been given to them by their enemies , as a derogatory name , as the area they came from , or from hearsay , and may be nothing like what they called themselves ,it may have been given them by the archaeologist who first uncovered traces of them in order to record his find .

a name like Hattians or Hittites would have been un-aspirated in biblical times TTNS or TTTS and could well be a name which was wrongly aspirated like Titans , maybe Tatar or even Attica (often the h being a silent letter)..........all those Ts in the same approximate area , could make you think of a God they may have worshipped in the Gobekli Tepe vicinity .or maybe just their TAT's

Edited March 21, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[The Puzzler]

Does any of you have something of a respons to this post of mine (it's about language, so you all should love it) :

http://www.unexplain...3

In case you have 'link-phobia', here it is again:

The OLB talks about colonies in Greece and Crete (and it mentions Troy), so if it's all true, they SHOULD have known about these Hittites.

But there is not ONE word about them in the OLB. Why? Because in the 19th century not much was known about these Hittites.

And they were a people to be reckoned with, as the ancient Egyptians and Israelites were well aware of.

.

I think many people of time are not mentioned, there is no reason to mention the Hittites. They are mentioned in the Bible, so even if nothing was known archaeologically about them, their name was already known.

Edited March 21, 2013 by The Puzzler