Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Van Gorp]

Thanks Van Gorp.

But "soldaten" or "soldier" is derived from medieval Latin. You really think that the Romans soldiers were paid ("soldij") in salt after they had fought for their empire and risking their lives for years on end?

+++

EDIT:

According to De Vries it is derived from Latin "solidus", or a golden coin.

http://www.etymologi...efwoord/soldaat

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http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geld

In the Roman Empire, salt was a product that was hard to win. This made it a valuable and solid product value, and therefore suitable for use as commodity money. The soldiers of the Roman army were paid with salt bars, called Salarium. The current word salary is derived there from.

[Abramelin]

The messsage here is: there are many clues that some (climatological) disaster had taken place around 1200 BCE, something UNknown in the 19th century, and that's why we don't find one single word about it in the OLB.

I have posted earlier that people in Europe went on the move around 1200 BCE, that countries were depopulated, wars ,unrest, general mayhem. And also around the Med (the Sea Peoples for instance).

The only thing from that period that shows up in the OLB is the mentioning of Ulysses sailing to Frisia.

From another thread (and again about 1200 BCE):

<snip>

The Medinet Habu Tablets clarify some of the events. Some of the Sea Peoples, as prisoners, declare: "Our islands are uprooted and carried away. The might of Nun [ocean] broke forth and fell in great wave on our towns and villages. The head of their cities has gone under the sea; their land is no more" (inscriptions 37, 46, 80, 102 & 109). This is very much like the geologist's descriptions examined earlier for northern Europe. Ramses III declared on the walls of Medinet Habu that "the whole delta of the Nile is flooded by the sea." Later he states, as does the archeological evidence, that there were vast fires in the Near East: "Libya became a desert; a terrible torch hurled flame from heaven to destroy their souls and lay waste their land [as] their bones burn and roast within their limbs [and] the Nile was dried up and the land fell victim to drought" (Tablet 105). Again, like Homer, the fires are said to be the result of a source from outside of the Earth.

http://www.livingcos...1250-1050BC.htm

I tried to find an online source for the translations of the Medinet Habu hieroglyphs to corroborate the above quote but couldn't find it.

From that same thread:

I posted this pic earlier:

And it's from this site:

http://www.artsales....ea_peoples.html

I wonder how the one who created that webpage came to the conclusion that those "Weshesh" might have come from outside the Mediterranean. Anyone??

In Egyptian records of the second wave of Sea Peoples attacks in c. 1186 BC, during the reign of Pharaoh Rameses III, the Shardana, Teresh, and Shekelesh are still considered to be a menace, but new names also appear: the Denyen, Tjeker, Weshesh and Peleset. An inscription mentions that they "made a conspiracy in their islands", but these may have only been temporary bases, not their actual homelands.

The Denyen probably originally came from northern Syria (perhaps where the Shardana had once lived), and the Tjeker from the Troad (i.e., the area around Troy) (possibly via Cyprus). Alternatively, some have associated the Denyen with the Danaoi of the Iliad, and even the tribe of Dan in Israel.

Little is known about the Weshesh, though even here there is a tenuous link to Troy. As you may know, the Greeks sometimes referred to the city of Troy as Ilios, but this may have evolved from the Hittite name for the region, Wilusa, via the intermediate form Wilios. If the people called Weshesh by the Egyptians were indeed the Wilusans, as has been speculated, then they may have included some genuine Trojans, though this is an extremely tenuous association.

Finally, of course, the Peleset eventually became the Philistines and gave their name to Palestine, but they too probably originated somewhere in Anatolia.

In summary then, five of the nine named "Sea Peoples" - the Teresh, Lukka, Tjeker, Weshesh and Peleset - can plausibly be linked to Anatolia (albeit somewhat inconclusively), with the Tjeker, Teresh and Weshesh being possibly linked to the vicinity of Troy itself, though nothing can be proven and there's still much controversy about the exact locations of ancient states in that region, let alone the ethnic identity of the inhabitants.

http://ancienthistor...f/seapeople.htm

EDIT:

I think I found the source for the idea some of these sea peoples came from outside the Mediterranean... It's the Nyland guy, a guy who thinks the Basque language is the origin for all other languages.... sigh...

1210 bce., Pharaoh Merenptah wins a decisive victory over the Libyans in the western desert. The allies of the Libyans had been the Aqaiwasha people of the "foreign lands of the sea" probably the British.

http://www.faculty.u...ze/seapeopl.htm

http://www.rumormill...cgi?read=122679

OK. the idea was interesting, but alas.

Did ancient native American seafarers cross the Atlantic ?

http://www.unexplain...8

++++

EDIT:

http://www.exploreth.../BACollapse.asp

http://www.historyan...-Iron-Ages.html

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Edited May 28, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geld

In the Roman Empire, salt was a product that was hard to win. This made it a valuable and solid product value, and therefore suitable for use as commodity money. The soldiers of the Roman army were paid with salt bars, called Salarium. The current word salary is derived there from.

Yes, I agree with the 'salary' bit, but the OLB uses salt-atha for soldiers, and that is derived from Latin "solidus", or a golden coin.

Or else they were 'friends of the salt', or 'friends of the salty seas', ie.:sailors.

[Abramelin]

The Linear B Tablets of Pylos in the Late Bronze Age in the Aegean demonstrate increased slave raiding and the spread of mercenaries and migratory peoples and their subsequent resettlement. Despite this, the actual identity of the Sea Peoples has remained enigmatic and modern scholars have only the scattered records of ancient civilizations and archaeological analysis to inform them. Evidence shows that the identities and motives of these peoples were not unknown to the Egyptians. In fact, many had sought employment with the Egyptians or were in a diplomatic relationship for a few centuries before the Late Bronze Age Collapse. For example select groups, or members of groups, of the Sea People, such as the Sherden or Shardana, were used as mercenaries by Egyptian Pharaohs such as Ramesses II.

Prior to the 3rd Intermediate Period of Egypt from the (15th century BCE), names of semitic-speaking pastoral cattle nomadic peoples of the Levant appear, replacing previous Egyptian concern with the Hurrianised 'prw ('Apiru or Habiru). These were called the š3sw (Shasu), meaning "those who move on foot". e.g. the Shasu of Yhw. Sandars uses the analogous name "land peoples." Contemporary Assyrian records refer to them as Ahhlamu or Wanderers. They were not part of the Egyptian list of Sea Peoples, and were later referred to as Aramaeans.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Sea_Peoples

From the OLB:

ALL THIS IS INSCRIBED NOT ONLY ON THE WARABURGT, BUT ALSO ON THE BURGT STAVIA, WHICH LIES BEHIND THE PORT OF STAVRE.

(...)

When they were ready they began to disagree. Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middle Sea, and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda’s people. Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ax

The previous story in the OLB is about the arrival of the Finns and their Magyar (priest caste) from the east, and about Wodin.

2194 - 101= 2093 BCE

The story following the story about Inka/Teunis is about the war between Kalta and Minerva.

2194 - 563 = 1631 BCE.

(Btw, all these dates mentioned in the OLB- so many years after the submergence of Atland - hint at a date of 2193 BCE for the submergence of Atland, though that is wrong; there's no year zero and it should be 2194 BCE.)

This means the story of Teunis and Inka (Teunis serving the Egyptian pharaoh and so on) must have happened between 2093 and 1631 BCE.

"In fact, many had sought employment with the Egyptians or were in a diplomatic relationship for a few centuries before the Late Bronze Age Collapse"

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Sea_Peoples

A few centuries before 1200 BCE is not 6 centuries before 1200 BCE...

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Edited May 28, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

"It has been proposed that perhaps the ship’s destination was Rhodes, which was at the time an important redistribution center for the Aegean."

From the OLB:

NOW I WILL RELATE HOW THE GEERTMAN AND MANY FOLLOWERS OF HELLENIA CAME BACK.

(...)

After nêi gvng Dêmêtrius lâs vp Hrodus thêr hinne brochton wi sina salt-âtha ând liftochta wr. Thâ wi tha leste rêis to Hrodus kêmon, was orloch vrtyan. Dêmêtrius was nêi Athenia fâren.

Daar-na ging Demetrius los op Rodos, daar heen brachten we zijn soldaten en leeftochten over. Toen we de laatste reis te Rodos kwamen, was oorlog over. Demetrius was naa Athene (ge)varen.

Sandbach:

Afterwards, Demetrius (fiercely) attacked Rhodes, and we transported thither his soldiers and provisions. When we made our last voyage to Rhodes, the war was finished (= over). Demetrius had sailed to Athens.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bp

<snip>

The OLB date for the attack on Rhodes seems to be right (someone must've read Diodorus Siculus work):

In 305, Antigonus Monophthalmus, one of the Diadochi (successors of Alexander the Great), sent out his son Demetrius to capture the city and island of Rhodes. It controlled the entrance to the Aegean Sea, and its capture was necessary if Antigonus wanted to liberate Greece and Macedonia. Diodorus of Sicily tells about the siege in his World History 20.81 and 20.100. The translation was made by M.M. Austin.

http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/diadochi_t06.html

4. The Colossus of Rhodes

The Colossus was erected to commemorate the outcome of the blockade of the city of Rhodes by king Demetrius Poliorcetes. In 305-304, he had attempted to conquer this important port, but the siege had been unsuccessful, and the Rhodians ordered Chares of Lindos to build a statue of Helios, the sun god. The monument, which was nearly thirty meters high and stood on a pedestal that added another ten meters, guarded the entrance of the harbor. It collapsed after an earthquake in 227/226 BCE, but the remains were still shown to tourists in the Roman age.

http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html#4._The_colossus_of_Rhodes

Lindos, also spelled Lindus, Greek Líndhos, town on the eastern coast of Rhodes and the site of one of the three city-states of Rhodes before their union (408 bc). Lindos was the site of Danish excavations (1902–24, resumed 1952) that uncovered the Doric Temple of Athena Lindia on the acropolis, propylaea (entrance gates), and a stoa (colonnade). Also discovered was a chronicle of the temple compiled in 99 bc by a local antiquarian, listing mythical and historical dedications from many parts of the Mediterranean.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/341904/Lindos

[Abramelin]

Remnants of an OLB circular "citadel" found in the Wadden Sea?

Hmmm... anyway, the next large circular 'thing' was found near Vlieland, one of the Dutch Wadden Islands:

English summary;

A levallois core and an exceptional polished axe from Vlieland (province of Friesland)

From the Vliehors area on the Wadden Island of Vlieland, hundreds of artefacts have been collected by Mr Idzard Vonk (of Koudum). Most of the finds date from the Neolithic or the Early Bronze Age, including an impressive polished axe made of a crystalline material rarely used for such tools: granulitic gneiss. Futhermore. a blade core probably dates from the Upper Palaeolithic (Hamburgian?). Also striking is the presence of a Levallois core. This artefact shows wind gloss, in contrast to the many Neolithic flint artefacts.

Also a fragment of a bifacial too! (resembling a Keilmesser) and two flakes are covered in windgloss. These artefacts, washed up from the North Sea, are among the northemmost Middle Palaeolithic artefacts in Europe.

Uit; Paleo-Aktueel – No.22 – Uitgave van Groningen Institute of Archelogy - 2011

I have no idea what it is or how old it is.

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Edited June 2, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

OK, forget about the former post, lol:

Bommendoel van de Koninklijke Luchtmacht op de Vliehors in augustus 2011 vanaf 270 meter hoogte, opname uit een serie Kustfoto's van Rijkswaterstaat.

Transl.:

Bombing target of the Royal Air Force on the Vliehors, August 2011 from 270 meters, a shot from a series of Coast Photos of the Governmental Water Management.

I think I need a beer now...

[lilthor]

I think I need a beer now...

Pity...pinpointing an actual citadel is worth 2 beers, at the very least.

[Abramelin]

Pity...pinpointing an actual citadel is worth 2 beers, at the very least.

Well, I tried, lol.

If there is any truth in the OLB, then the Wadden Sea is the place to look for any remnants of those citadels. And the Dogger Bank and the White Bank (north of Friesland) would be promising places too. But I think that whatever will be found on these banks is many thousands of years older than anything OLB.

[The Puzzler]

Yes, I agree with the 'salary' bit, but the OLB uses salt-atha for soldiers, and that is derived from Latin "solidus", or a golden coin.

Or else they were 'friends of the salt', or 'friends of the salty seas', ie.:sailors.

How about that, Roman soldiers WERE paid in salt...

You really think that the Romans soldiers were paid ("soldij") in salt after they had fought for their empire and risking their lives for years on end?

Notice the description of the salt that Van Gorp gave, had salt described as a 'solid currency'. Then a golden coin is a ' solidus'.

[Abramelin]

The difference lies between "salary", derived from the Latin word for 'salt', and the Dutch "soldij" which is derived from 'golden coin', "solidus".

[Abramelin]

The OLB word is "salt-atha", or "friends of the salt". That is if you follow the OLB etymology; "atha" means 'friends' in OLB-ian.

To me it is obvious someone concocted an etymology for "soldaat", or 'soldier'.

[The Puzzler]

Yes, I agree with the 'salary' bit, but the OLB uses salt-atha for soldiers, and that is derived from Latin "solidus", or a golden coin.

Or else they were 'friends of the salt', or 'friends of the salty seas', ie.:sailors.

sorry ignore this post, I misinterpreted it.

Edited June 3, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

The difference lies between "salary", derived from the Latin word for 'salt', and the Dutch "soldij" which is derived from 'golden coin', "solidus".

But solidus could come from salt in the form of salt being a solid currency - which really equalled or became the equivalent of the golden coin. solidus could come from salt is what I'm saying, and van gorp is also suggesting this yes?

That would mean that Dutch soldier/soldij meaning solid, in Latin meant golden coin but came from salt which also meant ' golden coin' or at least solid currency.

[Abramelin]

But solidus could come from salt in the form of salt being a solid currency - which really equalled or became the equivalent of the golden coin. solidus could come from salt is what I'm saying, and van gorp is also suggesting this yes?

That would mean that Dutch soldier/soldij meaning solid, in Latin meant golden coin but came from salt which also meant ' golden coin' or at least solid currency.

The solidus (the Latin word for solid) was originally a gold coin issued by the Romans, and a weight for gold more generally, corresponding to 4.5 grams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidus_%28coin%29

[The Puzzler]

If salt was salt meaning solid - ie; currency - into Latin it would be same but may have changed to solid from salt in that language, if they took it into near Krekaland - then a soldier might be a solid friend - ie; of the country/protector

soldier then, from Latin could mean salt - just as salt means salary.

[The Puzzler]

The solidus (the Latin word for solid) was originally a gold coin issued by the Romans, and a weight for gold more generally, corresponding to 4.5 grams.

http://en.wikipedia..../Solidus_(coin)

Yes, but what is stopping solid from originating from salt? Salt would have been an earlier form of the solid.

[Abramelin]

Yes, but what is stopping solid from originating from salt? Salt would have been an earlier form of the solid.

Nothing is stopping it, but this is - again - nothing but a similarity of consonants.

solid (adj.)

late 14c., from Old French solide "firm, dense, compact," from Latin solidus "firm, whole, entire" (related to salvus "safe"), from PIE root *sol- "whole" (cf. Greek holos "whole," Latin salus "health;" see safe (adj.)).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=solid&searchmode=none

[Abramelin]

salt (n.)

Old English sealt (noun and adjective), from Proto-Germanic *saltom (cf. Old Saxon, Old Norse, Old Frisian, Gothic salt, Dutch zout, German Salz), from PIE *sal- "salt" (cf. Greek hals "salt, sea," Latin sal, Old Church Slavonic soli, Old Irish salann, Welsh halen, Old Church Slavonic sali "salt").

Meaning "experienced sailor" is first attested 1840, in reference to the salinity of the sea.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=salt

[The Puzzler]

Nothing is stopping it, but this is - again - nothing but a similarity of consonants.

solid (adj.)

late 14c., from Old French solide "firm, dense, compact," from Latin solidus "firm, whole, entire" (related to salvus "safe"), from PIE root *sol- "whole" (cf. Greek holos "whole," Latin salus "health;" see safe (adj.)).

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

From Old English sealt, from Proto-Germanic *saltą (cf. Dutch zout, German Salz, Swedish salt), from Proto-Indo-European *seh₂l- (cf. Welsh halen, Old Irish salann, Latin sal, Russian соль (sol'), Ancient Greek ἅλς (háls), Albanian ngjelmë (“salty, savory”), Old Armenian աղ (ał), Tocharian A sāle, Sanskrit सलिल (salila)).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/salt

Both etymologies rely on making up Proto words. Without them these words imo could clearly connect. Something to sleep on.

[Abramelin]

What you do is connect words that have similar consonants, and by that give them the same origin and meaning.

That is nothing but play.

Sleep well.

[The Puzzler]

What you do is connect words that have similar consonants, and by that give them the same origin and meaning.

That is nothing but play.

Sleep well.

I noticed that van gorps post had salt described as a solid currency and saw no reason to think it's not connected to the word solid - which is what soldier comes from. Regardless of the consonants, I can see the meaning is the same and the word is very similar and could easily imo have come from a same root - that Proto words conveniently explain as not being connected.

Made me think of Salitas, the Hyksos.

Some scholars mention Salitis' name as "Sultan". This is an Arabic translation of the phrase "powerful king" because the king was considered to be the founder of the first Hyksos dynasty. Salitis captured Memphis and placed himself in higher rank than any of the royal families in the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salitis

His name meant 'powerful king'. Like a ' solid king', strong, powerful, a soldier king I imagine.

Call it what you like.

Edited June 4, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

I call it nonsense.

It will not explain the OLB word "salt-atha".

The OLB word "salt" is constantly used in the meaning of "salt", the OLB word "atha" constantly means 'friend'.

It had nothing to do with 'power', or 'powerful king' or 'solid'.

Using OLB lingo, the word "salt-atha" - or "saltatha" as it is also written - can only mean 'salt friends', or 'friends of the salt'. And from what I gather reading the OLB, the word is always in connection with seafarers and battle.

I think a modern equivalent would be 'marines'.

.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The messsage here is: there are many clues that some (climatological) disaster had taken place around 1200 BCE,something UNknown in the 19th century, and that's why we don't find one single word about it in the OLB.

I have posted earlier that people in Europe went on the move around 1200 BCE, that countries were depopulated, wars ,unrest, general mayhem. And also around the Med (the Sea Peoples for instance).

The only thing from that period that shows up in the OLB is the mentioning of Ulysses sailing to Frisia.

And maybe even the story of Ulysses is dated wrong in the OLB (2194-1005=1189 BCE):

THE TROJAN WAR DATED BY TWO SOLAR ECLIPSES

Göran Henriksson

Department of Physics and Astronomy, Uppsala University

S-751 20 Uppsala, Sweden

CONCLUSIONS

If the passage quoted above from book 17

of the Iliad describes the total solar eclipse in

Troy in 1312 BC, the battle at Troy may be

connected to historical events in the Hittite

archives. These, in turn, can be related to an

absolute chronology by the solar eclipse in

1335 BC, in the tenth year of Mursili II.

Therefore we know that there was an attack

at Wilusa/Ilios/Troy by Ahhijawa/Achaeans

shortly after the death of Mursili II in 1315

BC. In the Hittite archives a prince Pijamaradu

from Arzawa was the commander of

the forces from Ahhijawa that took the island

Lazba, identified as Lesbos, and in the Iliad

the Achaean hero Achilles and his men conquered

Lesbos before they attacked Troy,

both taking place at the same time.

http://www.maajournal.com/Issues/2012/pdf/HENRIKSSON.pdf

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Edited June 6, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The submersion of Âtland happened in the year 2193 BC - not in 2194 BC. By utilizing our current Gregorian Calendar the division 'before' and 'after' Christ or Our Time creates an extra year 0 when calculating mathematically from one side to the other, using the numbering at each side. It is because the Gregorian Calendar starts with year 1 instead of year 0. The Julian Calendar, which was the one in use when Hidde Oera Linda wrote his letter in AD 1256, didn't do that, it started with year 0 - and that calendar was utilized until AD 1582.

Accordingly, Hidde wrote his letter in AD 1255 according to our Gregorian Calendar - not in AD 1256; and Liko Ovira Linda wrote his letter in the year AD 802 - not in AD 803.

I overlooked something:

If you are right, Apol, then the date of the submergence of Aldland is still 2194: 1255-3449=2194 BCE.

And what is much more interesting is that then that flooding Hidde mentioned in that letter happened in 1254 CE.......and like I have posted in this thread, there was indeed a flood on the Dutch, English and Belgium coasts in 1254 CE (mentioned by Martin Paris).

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Edited June 11, 2013 by Abramelin