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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

A bit more info about the original name of Münster, Mimigernaford/Mimigardeford :

Teutonic Mythology Vol. 4 - Jacob W. Grimm

http://books.google....n -ebay&f=false

Muumlnster_zps4a0a3b13.jpg

I have found this book on the Internet:

http://epub.uni-regensburg.de/24584/1/ubr12363_ocr.pdf

Heinrich Tiefenbach: Mimigernaford-Mimigardeford – Die ursprünglichen Namen der Stadt Münster, in the journal Beiträge sur Namenforschung, Vol. 19, 1984

(Universitätsverlag Carl Winter, Heidelberg; ISSN: 0005-8114)

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I have found this book on the Internet:

http://epub.uni-rege...br12363_ocr.pdf

Heinrich Tiefenbach: Mimigernaford-Mimigardeford – Die ursprünglichen Namen der Stadt Münster, in the journal Beiträge sur Namenforschung, Vol. 19, 1984

(Universitätsverlag Carl Winter, Heidelberg; ISSN: 0005-8114)

I have found that one too, but my computer doesn't seem to like it much...

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Let us have a look at the OLB text once more. The author mentions five reeves (grêvetmanna), three of them are former sêkeningar (sea-kings), two of them were former hermana (hêrtoga) (commanders). The logic of this is, that the sea-kings come from areas adjacent to the sea and the commanders come from inland areas.

The sea-kings are:

1. Apol – Astflyland and Oviralindawrda + Ljvdgarda [Leeuwarden], Lindahem [Wolvega] and Stavja [stavoren] = modern Friesland.

2. Enoch – Westflyland and Texland + Waraburch, Medeasblik and Forana = modern West-Friesland

3. Foppo – Sjugun êlânda. = modern Zeeland

The inland-kings are:

4. Storo (Saxman) – Haga Fenna and Walda + Buda, Mannagardaforda (later in the book it is said to be a mistake for Mannagardawrda). = Overijssel, Drente, Achterhoek (Dutch Saxonian area)

5. Abelo – Suderflylanda + Aken, Ljvdburg and Katsburg = must be modern Zuid-Holland (South-Holland). Though the area is adjacent to the sea the people are no more sea-farers, because the Rhine was blocked by Dunes.

The story of the OLB deals with Astflyland and Westflyland, mainly Stavia and Medeasblik. The other areas east and south of Astflyland and Westflyland are less important.

+ indicates the main places in that area. So Ljvdgarda, Lindahem and Stavja in the area of Astflyland and Oviralindawrda, Waraburch, Medeasblik and Forana in the area of Westflyland and Texel. We know about the Domburg (Walhallagara) in Sealand. Following this line we should look for Buda and Mannagardaforda in the area of the Haga Fenna and Walda and we should look for Aken, Ljvdburg and Katsburg in the area of Syderflylanda.

So, I have to revise my views.

1. If in Astflyland castles are mentioned in that area and if in Westflyland castles are mentioned in that area, it is reasonable to suppose that in Southflyland happened the same.

2. If in Astflyland, Westflyland and Southflyland castles are mentioned in those areas, it is reasonable to suppose that the same happened in the Haga Fenna and Walda.

3. In the Seven Islands there was only one castle (in Domburg on Wallhalagara, Walcheren).

Just a matter of logic.

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1. If in Astflyland castles are mentioned in that area and if in Westflyland castles are mentioned in that area, it is reasonable to suppose that in Southflyland happened the same.

2. If in Astflyland, Westflyland and Southflyland castles are mentioned in those areas, it is reasonable to suppose that the same happened in the Haga Fenna and Walda.

3. In the Seven Islands there was only one castle (in Domburg on Wallhalagara, Walcheren).

Just a matter of logic.

And where is Oviralindawrda? I mean, where in the OLB?

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And where is Oviralindawrda? I mean, where in the OLB?

Ah, you knitted two words together into one:

Apol, Adela’s husband;

Thria iser sêkening wêsen, nw is-er grêvetman over Ast-flylând aend ovir-a Linda-wrda. Tha bvrga Ljvdgârda, Lindahêm, aend Stâvja send vnder sin hod.

Three times he had been seaking, now he is grevetman over Ast-flylând and over (or: on the other side of) the Linda-wrda. The burghs Ljvdgârda, Lindahêm, and Stâvia are under his care.

+++

EDIT:

We know there is a mansion called "Lindenoord" in Wolvega, Friesland, and Linda-wrda is always translated as "Lindenoord(en)".

Mansion Lindenoord was of the Van Haren family.

EDIT:

ov-er-a 8, o-er-e, æv-er, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Ufer; ne. bank (N.), shore (N.);

Hw.: vgl. ae. æfer, mnd. æver; Q.: R, W; E.: s. germ. *ofra-, *ofram, *obera-,

*oberam, st. N. (a), Ufer; s. idg. *apero-, Adj., hintere [= posterior], Pokorny 53

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-O.pdf

.

Edited by Abramelin

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1. If in Astflyland castles are mentioned in that area and if in Westflyland castles are mentioned in that area, it is reasonable to suppose that in Southflyland happened the same.

2. If in Astflyland, Westflyland and Southflyland castles are mentioned in those areas, it is reasonable to suppose that the same happened in the Haga Fenna and Walda.

3. In the Seven Islands there was only one castle (in Domburg on Wallhalagara, Walcheren).

Just a matter of logic.

Yes, that is a matter of logic, and I agree of course 100% in that. But in my opinion this question remains: Where was really Hâga Fênna and Walda?

I was astonished that you're placing Lindahem in Wolvega. I looked up Wolvega in the Wikipedia, and I found this:

"Het enige buitenhuis dat nu nog in Wolvega staat, is Huize Lindenoord. Hier heeft onder andere de beroemde grietman Willem van Haren gewoond."

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolvega

I suppose that's the basis of your theory, and it is in fact an extremely interesting observation, Knul.

Edited by Apol

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Yes, that is a matter of logic, and I agree of course 100% in that. But in my opinion this question remains: Where was really Hâga Fênna and Walda?

The Haga Fenna and Walda are on the border between the provinces Friesland and Overijssel. The present name of the Walda is Zevenwouden (Seven Woods), the municipality is in Heerenveen (Fenna means Venen, in English bogs) It is the same area where the river Linde flows, from which the name Ovira Linda may have been derived. Ovira Linda means on the other side of the river Linde. The river Linda is a veenrivier (the water is coming out of the blogs).There exists a town Hoogeveen (Haga Fenna) east under Groningen as well.

http://www.staatsbos...ese Wouden.aspx

Here you sea the combination of Fenna (in front) and Walda (back). The photograph has been taken in the area Haga Fenna and Walda. However I have not yet located the places Buda and Mannagardaforda in that area, but that will come.

Edited by Knul

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The Haga Fenna and Walda are on the border between the provinces Friesland and Overijssel. The present name of the Walda is Zevenwouden (Seven Woods), the municipality is in Heerenveen (Fenna means Venen, in English bogs) It is the same area where the river Linde flows, from which the name Ovira Linda may have been derived. Ovira Linda means on the other side of the river Linde. The river Linda is a veenrivier (the water is coming out of the blogs).There exists a town Hoogeveen (Haga Fenna) east under Groningen as well.

http://www.staatsbos...ese Wouden.aspx

Here you sea the combination of Fenna (in front) and Walda (back). The photograph has been taken in the area Haga Fenna and Walda. However I have not yet located the places Buda and Mannagardaforda in that area, but that will come.

I found two old castles in that area, mentioned Kuinre I and Kuinre II. I don't know, if they have something to do with Buda and Mannagardaforda. s. http://www.absolutefacts.nl/kastelen/data/burchten-kuinre.htm. The site is in Dutch, but you may use your Google translator.

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Mannagardaforfa = Münster. Old name for Münster is Mimigernaford/Mimegardeford

Katsburch/Kattaburch = Kassel (Germany). Old name for Kassel is Castellum Cattorum, a castle of the Chatti. And we all know by now that castle = burgh (EN)/burch (OLB)/burg-t (DU) are the same (and the last 3 pronounced the same).

Fon sin êrosta wif hêder twên sviaringa bihalda, thêr sêr klok wêron. Hetto, that is hête, thene jongste skikt er as senda boda nêi Kattaburch thaet djap inna Saxanamarka lêid.

Of his first wife he still had two brothers-in-law, who were very daring. Hetto—that is, heat—the youngest, he sent as messenger to Kattaburgt, which lies far in the Saxsenmarken.

But it's in Germany, 'so' it must be wrong....

gm-map.jpg

saksemarken.jpg?w=300&h=230

map-oldsaxon.jpg

Edited by Abramelin

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If we let religious, politically correct, historic, and nationalistic sentiments get in the way, we will never find out about the truth of it all.

Grow up, and grow some balls.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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How about its Buda Ruska in the Gmina Krasnopol district of Poland ?.. according to the book i am reading Poland (A-polonia ?) was heavily populated by both Rus and Magians

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How about its Buda Ruska in the Gmina Krasnopol district of Poland ?.. according to the book i am reading Poland (A-polonia ?) was heavily populated by both Rus and Magians

Well, quote from the book, please.

And give us a title.

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Sorry i have read over 120 pages of it today, and could not find it quickly ......but after the info on Poland and many Rus, Magi, Saxons being there i just asked wiki for a Buda in Poland.

i have been making 2 +2 =5 again ,re Russia it says a 13th C Icelandic tract says "The Magon (Makon ) ruled over large parts of Swithiod ( meaning Greater Scythia) but Madia (Media) ruled over Kylfingla-land, which we (icelanders) call Gardarika meaning "land of enclosures ", some also call it land of forts.......what would this make it (Gardaforta ?as in managardaforda maybe ?)........ garda is the same as russian -grad and gorod , as in Novgorod

How about this to ponder which i noticed , before Russia it was called Swithiod,.....of Rus.........Swi..Thiod-o-rus ....Theodorus ?

i am afraid copy / paste means nothing to me . i left the link to the book for you on the other forum , if you could transfer it herei would be obliged.....the title makes you want to ignore it ! but i am really glad i didn't

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Could you please post the title of the book you are reading?

++++

EDIT:

Sorry, I didn't read this:

"i left the link to the book for you on the other forum , if you could transfer it herei would be obliged.....the title makes you want to ignore it ! but i am really glad i didn't"

OK, I will look it up on the Historum site.

++++

EDIT:

Got it:

"The True History of Wizards and Witches - The Early Years."

By John Smith - 2004

http://www.archive.org/stream/TrueHistoryOfWizardsAndWitches-TheEarlyYears/bulgaria_magian-BUR2004#page/n3/mode/2up

Hmmm...

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Dont knock it before you have read it .... thats exactly what i thought at first , ........... now i am thinking did the Rus ,conquer the medes , and inter breed with a nation of God/Kings who believed they had the right to appoint kings over each nation of the world , becoming therefore God/Kings themselves , hence why they were asked to go and take the head in Russia , when it was formed by conquest ?you Scans were about the very last in Europe to convert from Paganism .

Think about some of the names used for Persia ( far-sea )........ Rus (are they the same Rus , as the Scans ) ......Sassanids ( sassans or saxons ? ) and surely this cant be , but how about P(of) Arthians , surely not a tribe called Arther , and not just a king ???............if all us North Westerners were of the same ethnicity , perhaps we all went to war together a very long time ago , ........starts to make you wonder about the European mummies in China with long red hair , beards and wearing tartan dress.and question other names like Dardania (Tartan-ia )

didnt the Puzzler have a thread asking if the Achaeans were Persians , that book about Troy being in Britain , probably not but maybe lots of North West tribes involved.....Lots of food for thought .

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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Yes, that is a matter of logic, and I agree of course 100% in that. But in my opinion this question remains: Where was really Hâga Fênna and Walda?

I was astonished that you're placing Lindahem in Wolvega. I looked up Wolvega in the Wikipedia, and I found this:

"Het enige buitenhuis dat nu nog in Wolvega staat, is Huize Lindenoord. Hier heeft onder andere de beroemde grietman Willem van Haren gewoond."

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolvega

I suppose that's the basis of your theory, and it is in fact an extremely interesting observation, Knul.

Here you find the official website of the two castles at Kuinre: http://www.mathieuinwonderland.nl/nl_master.html?http://www.mathieuinwonderland.nl/kuinderburcht/nl_kuinderburcht.html . Unfortunately in Dutch, but you may see the remnants and a reconstruction.

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Here you find the official website of the two castles at Kuinre: http://www.mathieuin...nderburcht.html . Unfortunately in Dutch, but you may see the remnants and a reconstruction.

DETTE ER DE GRIETMENNENE UNDER HVIS LEDELSE DENNE BOKA ER SKAPT:

Âpol, Adelas mann. Tre ganger har han vært sjøkonge. Nå er han grietmann over Âst-Flílând [Øst-Vlieland] og over Lindawrda [Linda-oorden]. Borgene Ljvdgârda , Lindahêm [Wolvega] og Stâvja er under hans beskyttelse.

Saxmannen Storo, Sytjas mann – grietmann over Hâga Fênna og Walda [Tjonger area at Kuinre]. Ni ganger har han blitt valgt til hertug – det vil si til hærfører. Borgene Bvda [?] og Mannagardaforda [Münster ?] er under hans beskyttelse.

Âbêlo, Jaltjas mann; grietmann over Sûdar Flílânda [sør-Vlieland]. Fire ganger har han vært hærfører. Borgene Aken [The Hague], Ljvdburch [Leiden] og Kâtsburch [Katwijk, Brittenburg] er under hans beskyttelse.

Enoch, Díweks mann – grietmann over Westflílând [Vest-Vlieland] og Texland [Texel]. Ni ganger ble han valgt til sjøkonge. Waraburch [Hoorn], Mêdêasblik [Medemblik], Forâna [Vroonen] og Gamle Frøyasburg [Den Burg, Texel] er under hans beskyttelse.

Foppo, Dunrôs’ mann – grietmann over Sjvgun Êlânda [Zeeland]. Fem ganger har han vært sjøkonge. Borgen Walhallagâra [Domburg, Walcheren] er under hans beskyttelse.

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DETTE ER DE GRIETMENNENE UNDER HVIS LEDELSE DENNE BOKA ER SKAPT:

Âpol, Adelas mann. Tre ganger har han vært sjøkonge. Nå er han grietmann over Âst-Flílând [Øst-Vlieland] og over Lindawrda [Linda-oorden]. Borgene Ljvdgârda , Lindahêm [Wolvega] og Stâvja er under hans beskyttelse.

Saxmannen Storo, Sytjas mann – grietmann over Hâga Fênna og Walda [Tjonger area at Kuinre]. Ni ganger har han blitt valgt til hertug – det vil si til hærfører. Borgene Bvda [?] og Mannagardaforda [Münster ?] er under hans beskyttelse.

Âbêlo, Jaltjas mann; grietmann over Sûdar Flílânda [sør-Vlieland]. Fire ganger har han vært hærfører. Borgene Aken [The Hague], Ljvdburch [Leiden] og Kâtsburch [Katwijk, Brittenburg] er under hans beskyttelse.

Enoch, Díweks mann – grietmann over Westflílând [Vest-Vlieland] og Texland [Texel]. Ni ganger ble han valgt til sjøkonge. Waraburch [Hoorn], Mêdêasblik [Medemblik], Forâna [Vroonen] og Gamle Frøyasburg [Den Burg, Texel] er under hans beskyttelse.

Foppo, Dunrôs’ mann – grietmann over Sjvgun Êlânda [Zeeland]. Fem ganger har han vært sjøkonge. Borgen Walhallagâra [Domburg, Walcheren] er under hans beskyttelse.

I have no big problems reading Dutch, Knul, but I wasn't able to open the Kuinderburcht link. It seems to me like the website has disappeared.

Your corrections of my data for the grietenijen and burghs of Fryasland are in fact interesting. As you may have seen, I've already changed Kuinre into Wolvega.

Already a long time ago I considered Katwijk as the site of Kattaburch, but eventually I abandoned the idea. May I ask what makes you link Aken to The Hague?

The reason why I have chosen Hoorn, and not Enkhuizen, as the site of Wâraburch/Aldergâmvde, is, that the text says: "It is situated three poles – that is a half tide – southwards from Mêdêasblik". I have wondered why they have chosen poles as their main measure - it is a land measure. I think the hammering down of poles in the water was for the purpose of the breaking of waves only, Consequently, I think they may have measured the distance overland - Hoorn is situated right south of Medemblik. As one pole was 3-4 kms, three poles should be between 9 and 12 kms, which is in an approximate agreement with the distance from Medemblik to Hoorn. There existed anciently a river named De Gouw which emptied in or near Hoorn, but which is now reduced into being the name of a street in the center of the city, more or less.

Has your decision of placing Walhallagâra in Domburg to do with the Nehalennia altars found there? There were also found Nehalennia altars near Colijnsplaat on the north coast of the island. According to palaeographic maps there were no islands in Zeeland between 2000 BC and the birth of Christ - if they are exact. The coastline of Walcheren seems not to have changed much, though, which means that Domburg wouldn't have been situated "in the middle of an island" in those times. That's why I think that Walhallagâra was identical to Middelburg, which also was a burgh originally.

Edited by Apol

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Apol, you should not forget that this is not about 2000 BCE, but instead about around 600 BCE (following the OLB chronology). By then the Dutch province of Zeeland consisted of several islands.

And Middelburg didn't even exist around that time:

The city of Middelburg dates back possibly to the late 8th century or early 9th century. The first mention of Middelburg was as one of three fortified towns (i.e., borgs) erected on Walcheren (then an island) to guard against Viking raids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelburg

Wâraburch is probably Wieringen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieringen

Another thing: we should not forget that when we want to locate the burghs in South Flyland we must take into account that many villages and burghs were drowned when the Zuiderzee was formed in the late middle ages.

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I have no big problems reading Dutch, Knul, but I wasn't able to open the Kuinderburcht link. It seems to me like the website has disappeared.

Your corrections of my data for the grietenijen and burghs of Fryasland are in fact interesting. As you may have seen, I've already changed Kuinre into Wolvega.

Already a long time ago I considered Katwijk as the site of Kattaburch, but eventually I abandoned the idea. May I ask what makes you link Aken to The Hague?

The reason why I have chosen Hoorn, and not Enkhuizen, as the site of Wâraburch/Aldergâmvde, is, that the text says: "It is situated three poles – that is a half tide – southwards from Mêdêasblik". I have wondered why they have chosen poles as their main measure - it is a land measure. I think the hammering down of poles in the water was for the purpose of the breaking of waves only, Consequently, I think they may have measured the distance overland - Hoorn is situated right south of Medemblik. As one pole was 3-4 kms, three poles should be between 9 and 12 kms, which is in an approximate agreement with the distance from Medemblik to Hoorn. There existed anciently a river named De Gouw which emptied in or near Hoorn, but which is now reduced into being the name of a street in the center of the city, more or less.

Has your decision of placing Walhallagâra in Domburg to do with the Nehalennia altars found there? There were also found Nehalennia altars near Colijnsplaat on the north coast of the island. According to palaeographic maps there were no islands in Zeeland between 2000 BC and the birth of Christ - if they are exact. The coastline of Walcheren seems not to have changed much, though, which means that Domburg wouldn't have been situated "in the middle of an island" in those times. That's why I think that Walhallagâra was identical to Middelburg, which also was a burgh originally.

First I give you an other link to the Kuinre castles: http://www.kasteleni...kasteel4386.php The other website still exists.

Aken looks of course very much like Aken = Aachen, but that town is simply not in the Rhine area. Secondly I look for places in the area of South-Flyland. Ljudburg or Lydasburg may be Leiden. In Leiden there is a famous castle. Ljudburg has been called Lydasburg as well, because of the black people living in Leiden like in Alkmaar.

Katwijk - the name has been derived from Catti - is close to this place at seaside. The castle (Brittenburg) has disappeared. See my website: http://www.rodinbook...rittenburg.html .

The Hague has a castle as well (which is now the parliament). The castle has been built in the time of Hidde Oera Linda. The name Aken may be derived from 's Graven-hagen (Graven = greva, grevetman). The H in the beginning is often abandoned in the OLB. The G may well have been changed to K as well. The ending -en is commonly changed to -a in the OLB. It's a guess.

One of the items collected at the Waraburch are shells. Shells are called 'hoorns' as well. You probably know about the Shell of Abundance, which in Dutch is Hoorn van Overvloed. The city Hoorn is known to have been wealthy.By the way mile-poles are used on the Northsea beach till today. In fact the poles indicate seamiles.

At Domburg has been a so called ringwalburcht in Viking times. Close to Domburg was a harbour place Walichrum (in the time of Liko). For the OLB it is interesting that at Domburg existed a Nehallennia temple. It has been a religious centre. So I prefer Domburg to Middelburg. By the way, I doubt such maps as you describe, because in fact Zeeland was a river delta of the river Schelde and partly of the river Maas. One supposes a junction between Maas and Schelde rivers at the back side of Zeeland.

I liked your website. I'll add your translation to http://www.rodinbook...ipt001-050.html next to the other translations. I hope you don't mind. I have spoken to the French translator, but he claims to have no digitalized text. Unfortunately the Russians never retranslated from English (Sandbach) or directly from Dutch (Ottema). Please don't forget to change Liege, because that is an odd possibility I have never heard of.

Edited by Knul

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Lindahem:

This is a list (in Dutch) of all the villages that have been lost in the new Zuiderzee, the Dollard, the Wadden Sea and in Zeeland:

http://www.nifterlaca.nl/read.php?3,3476,3479

http://de-wadden.clubs.nl/nieuws/detail/591659_lijst-van-verdronken-plaatsen

What's interesting is that there is one, called Luddengem, which made me think of Lindahem, because 'hem' and 'gem' mean exactly the same thing in Dutch placenames (residence, habitation, dwelling place), and because it was near Wieringen (Waraburch) , in the western part of the Wadden Sea (the triangle formed by Texel, Staveren and Medemblik/Enkhuizen).

From the OLB:

Apol, Adela’s husband; three times a sea-king; Grevetman of Ostflyland and Lindaoorden. The towns Liudgarda, Lindahem, and Stavia are under his care.

-

Minno was an ancient sea-king. He was a seer and a philosopher, and he gave laws to the Cretans. He was born at Lindaoord, and after all his wanderings he was lucky to die at Lindahem.

-

THE WRITING OF KONERÊD.

My forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case. My name is Konerêd. My father’s name was Frethorik, my mother’s name was Wiljow. After my father’s death I was chosen as his successor. When I was fifty years old I was chosen for chief Grevetman. My father has written how the Linda-wrda and Ljudgârdne were destroyed.Lindahêm is still lost, the Linda-wrda partially, and the north Ljudgârdne are still concealed by the salt sea.

I have discussed Lindahem a long time ago, it's this post:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=4155#entry3850199

And in that post I said there was a 'Lindenheim' in Schleswig-Holstein (it's a village west of Ahrensburg), but I didn't provide an image and you won't find it with Google Maps, but here it is:

Lindenheim_Schleswig-Holstein_zps7a809c0a.jpg

Source: http://www.beyer-mietservice.de/bl/schleswig-holstein/Ahrensburg-2807.html

The main problem is, of course, it never submerged or disappeared as far as I know.

The records of the submerged west coast of Denmark should be interesting to look deeper into, because it was once part of "Magna Frisia".

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Another (and important) thing to consider is the difference in points of view concerning the OLB:

-1- If you believe it is (or might be) an authentic ancient manuscript describing an ancient European civilization, then you must find proof of place names appearing in the OLB which also show up in ancient Roman and Greek records of the area;

-2- If you believe it is a 19th century fabrication, you'll have to look for anything medieval or even later.

Den Haag/The Hague/La Haye didn't exist in 600 BCE, just like my "Ockenburgh/Aken-Burgh (also in The Hague btw) didn't exist back then.

So if you agree with Knul about The Hague being the OLB "Aken", you'll have to agree with the OLB being not as old as it purports to be.

+++

EDIT:

And Knul suggested that the ancient Frisians regularly dropped the initial -H- of a name/word, but I'd like to see an example of that from the OLB.

It's the much more modern Belgians who did that, and that is because they were influenced by the French language.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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How about ?

hrenka - renka

hringdik - ringdik

hrvtar - rvtar

Tha Johniar sprêkath bêtre, thach hja swygath thi h aend hwêri navt nêsa mot, waerth er ûtekêth.

However OCKEN-BURG comes closer to AKEN than The Hague. maybe we should adopt OCKEN-BURG.

Edited by Knul

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First I give you an other link to the Kuinre castles: http://www.kasteleni...kasteel4386.php The other website still exists.

Aken looks of course very much like Aken = Aachen, but that town is simply not in the Rhine area. Secondly I look for places in the area of South-Flyland. Ljudburg or Lydasburg may be Leiden. In Leiden there is a famous castle. Ljudburg has been called Lydasburg as well, because of the black people living in Leiden like in Alkmaar.

Katwijk - the name has been derived from Catti - is close to this place at seaside. The castle (Brittenburg) has disappeared. See my website: http://www.rodinbook...rittenburg.html .

The Hague has a castle as well (which is now the parliament). The castle has been built in the time of Hidde Oera Linda. The name Aken may be derived from 's Graven-hagen (Graven = greva, grevetman). The H in the beginning is often abandoned in the OLB. The G may well have been changed to K as well. The ending -en is commonly changed to -a in the OLB. It's a guess.

One of the items collected at the Waraburch are shells. Shells are called 'hoorns' as well. You probably know about the Shell of Abundance, which in Dutch is Hoorn van Overvloed. The city Hoorn is known to have been wealthy.By the way mile-poles are used on the Northsea beach till today. In fact the poles indicate seamiles.

At Domburg has been a so called ringwalburcht in Viking times. Close to Domburg was a harbour place Walichrum (in the time of Liko). For the OLB it is interesting that at Domburg existed a Nehallennia temple. It has been a religious centre. So I prefer Domburg to Middelburg. By the way, I doubt such maps as you describe, because in fact Zeeland was a river delta of the river Schelde and partly of the river Maas. One supposes a junction between Maas and Schelde rivers at the back side of Zeeland.

I liked your website. I'll add your translation to http://www.rodinbook...ipt001-050.html next to the other translations. I hope you don't mind. I have spoken to the French translator, but he claims to have no digitalized text. Unfortunately the Russians never retranslated from English (Sandbach) or directly from Dutch (Ottema). Please don't forget to change Liege, because that is an odd possibility I have never heard of.

Even if I think your idea is interesting, I'm not willing to reject Liège as my principal option for the site of Ljvdburch yet. The idea was originally put forward by Overwijn (even a blind chicken may find a grain...). Ljvd/Ljud = people = 'Volksburcht'. And the city is situated in the right area, if Aken should happen to be Aachen - which still is my opinion. But I'm willing to change my opinion as soon as another idea is more convincing.

Here is what is written about the etymology of the name Liège on the English Wikipedia:

The name is Germanic in origin and is reconstructible as *liudik-, from the Germanic word *liudiz "people", which is found in for example Dutch lui(den), lieden, German Leute, Old English lēod and Icelandic lýður ("people"). It is found in Latin as Leodicum or Leodium, in Middle Dutch as ludic or ludeke.

http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Liège

Your comment that mile-poles are still in use on the North Sea coast for indicating sea miles was new to me, and very interesting. I have missed information on that topic. Do you have some information?

Yes, you can of course add my text to your website - I feel honored by that. But please be aware that I'm changing details all the time, as soon as I have some new information or another opinion.

Edited by Apol

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Another (and important) thing to consider is the difference in points of view concerning the OLB:

-1- If you believe it is (or might be) an authentic ancient manuscript describing an ancient European civilization, then you must find proof of place names appearing in the OLB which also show up in ancient Roman and Greek records of the area;

-2- If you believe it is a 19th century fabrication, you'll have to look for anything medieval or even later.

Den Haag/The Hague/La Haye didn't exist in 600 BCE, just like my "Ockenburgh/Aken-Burgh (also in The Hague btw) didn't exist back then.

So if you agree with Knul about The Hague being the OLB "Aken", you'll have to agree with the OLB being not as old as it purports to be.

+++

EDIT:

And Knul suggested that the ancient Frisians regularly dropped the initial -H- of a name/word, but I'd like to see an example of that from the OLB.

It's the much more modern Belgians who did that, and that is because they were influenced by the French language.

.

One of the problems with our materialistic natural science, is, that it is near to 100% dependent on matter. Places don't exist before they are mentioned in some manuscript.

Often we read on the Wikipedia that a city was founded by this and that person in this and that year. But this doesn't necessarily mean that there didn't exist a place at the same site from before - and with even the same name if the souvereign didn't put his own to it. It's often the rulers who write history and who have the resources to do so, and their main reason for doing it, is often their urge to immortalize themselves so that they can surpass their predecessors in reputation.

Anyway, the fact is that the farther back in time we come, the fewer recordings we have - regardless of who wrote them down. Therefore we often see the remark: "...first mention around AD XXXX...".

Edited by Apol

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