Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 11
Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

This is the picture of the Flílands that I've had in my head:

http://s1305.beta.ph...e943d5.jpg.html

I think your Süder Flilanda are too far south because it has no connection with the ancient river Fli/Flie/Vlie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I wait for that. See below my geography of the OLB, based on the juul-wheel.

Dr. Ottema van zijn kant kwam juist door de vermelding van

paalwoningen in het H. S. tot het besluit, dat het verhaal voor

't minst eenige eeuwen voor onze tijdrekening moest geschreven

zijn. Een derde wijst er evenwel op, dat in Van Lennep's Brinio,

waarvan de eerste druk in 1838 verscheen, reeds van paalwoningen

bij de Marezaten wordt gesproken.

Posts 7963 and -4 of part -1- of this thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=7950#entry4125748

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=7950#entry4125842

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like he said:

"One of the problems with our materialistic natural science, is, that it is near to 100% dependent on matter."

When things are found, that is wonderful.

But if no things were found, it does not mean they were never there.

Some things disappear by natural cause over time, others get destroyed (or recycled) by humans.

And I am still awaiting physical proof of an ancient civilization that stretched out over much of Europe, with colonies in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

I understand much could have been lost, but also that much must be still there.

I really won't buy that every physical proof of that civilization has disappeared into thin air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kennemerland did not belong to the Frisian territory. Alkmarum and Egmond occur in the OLB, but have not been listed.

Kennemerland gets its name from the Kennemer people, who were Frisians that fought with the Counts of Holland and lost in the Middle Ages. The name is said to derive from the Canninefates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennemerland

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I am still awaiting physical proof of an ancient civilization that stretched out over much of Europe, with colonies in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

I understand much could have been lost, but also that much must be still there.

I really won't buy that every physical proof of that civilization has disappeared into thin air.

Here are some physical proofs of ancient ringwall-burghs in the area of the Netherlands. Most of them are regarded as being from the Viking period, but not everybody agree.

http://s1305.beta.photobucket.com/user/holavli/media/nederland3hoIV_zps6e9496ad.jpg.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think your Süder Flilanda are too far south because it has no connection with the ancient river Fli/Flie/Vlie.

Not with the RIVER Flí, but with the Flí MÂR.

But it's merely a guess - though not drawn completely from the thin air.

Flood are named Fliet in the OLB, and I think it's the same word.

There are a lot of floods south of the Flímâr - maybe the name Ða Sûdar Flílanda (The Southern Vlielands) refers to the whole system of floods?

Edited by Apol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some physical proofs of ancient ringwall-burghs in the area of the Netherlands. Most of them are regarded as being from the Viking period, but not everybody agree.

http://s1305.beta.ph...9496ad.jpg.html

I know about those ringwall burghs, but they have done archeological research (including radiocarbon dating), and none is older than max 800 CE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not with the RIVER Flí, but with the Flí MÂR - the whole Flí system.

Yes, and even then it's too far south.

You had the Fli/Flie and you had Flevo Lake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See below my geography of the OLB, based on the juul-wheel.

Jol-wheel has six spokes, not eight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, and even then it's too far south.

You had the Fli/Flie and you had Flevo Lake.

My Sûdar Flílanda stretches all the way from Lake Flevo (Flímâr) to the Aken/Liêge area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Sûdar Flílanda stretches all the way from Lake Flevo (Flímâr) to the Aken/Liêge area.

Why?

The Aken/Liêge area.has nothing to do with the Fly or with Lake Flevo.

Click to enlarge:

post-18246-0-08139500-1362827126_thumb.j

.

Edited by Abramelin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know about those ringwall burghs, but they have done archeological research (including radiocarbon dating), and none is older than max 800 CE.

One of the principal dating methods applied to for instance the Danish burgh of Trelleborg, was dendrochronology (counting of growth rings in wood). Niels Ishøj Christensen thinks that the wood that was found was only from the last restauration of the burgh before it was abandoned.

Regarding other finds, Christensen says: "In my opinion, the loose finds of remains from the Viking Age - ceramics, loom weights, combs, iron tools, weapons etc., collected within the ringwall during the excavations 1934-42, proved that the site had been used by people at the end of the Viking Age, not that the whole construction site was erected in 980-81. Poul Nørlund had regarded the bowl-formed Viking Age fibula of ca. 950-1000, which was found in a fireplace at the courtyard, to lay below one of the burgh's longhouses, and accordingly to be older than the house. But also the opposite could be the case - the house may have laid there first, but had become decayed or burnt down, and later the fireplace where the fibula was found could have been dug into the ground of the old house."

(Niels Ishøj Christensen: Den store konges borg – På sporet av det skjulte Trelleborg (Forlaget Loke, Søborg, 2007; ISBN-10: 8799173301, ISBN-13: 978-8799173303))

This only to visualize how difficult the dating of ringwall-burghs is. One thing is for sure: the ringwall-burgh type is much older than the Viking Age.

The Dore Hill Fort near Fowey in Cornwall, for instance, is dated to the 4th century BC - it even seems to have 6 gates instead of 4.

http://www.historic-...castle_dore.htm

http://www.historyfi...ainCornubia.htm

The same seems to have been the case with the ringwallburgh of Hamaland in Appel, Gelderland, discovered in 2006.

http://dutchcastles....len-deel-1.html

Edited by Apol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And that's what I would do too.

But apparently in Dutch - and only in Dutch - it becomes "Marsaten" or "Marezaten" (older Dutch").

But who changed a -K- into a -- TSH- ? That's the Frisians.

.

And that's what I would do too.

But apparently in Dutch - and only in Dutch - it becomes "Marsaten" or "Marezaten" (older Dutch").

But who changed a -K- into a -- TSH- ? That's the Frisians.

.

What is sâta exactly anyway? (and why is it dweller)

Thêr to boppa hêdon wi tha nôma Landsâton, Mârsata aend Holtjefta Wodsâta.

sod (n.1) "slice of earth with grass on it," early 15c., apparently from Middle Dutch sode "turf," Middle Low German sode, or Old Frisian satha "sod," all of uncertain origin.

http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=sod

Old Frisian satha/sod - piece of earth with grass on it/turf

Mar-satha

sâth-a

6, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Rasen (M.); ne. sod; Hw.: vgl. mnd. sôde; Q.: E;

E.: ?; W.: saterl. sade; L.: Hh 89b, Hh 171, Rh 1001a

Edited by The Puzzler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the principal dating methods applied to for instance the Danish burgh of Trelleborg, was dendrochronology (counting of growth rings in wood). Niels Ishøj Christensen thinks that the wood that was found was only from the last restauration of the burgh before it was abandoned.

Regarding other finds, Christensen says: "In my opinion, the loose finds of remains from the Viking Age - ceramics, loom weights, combs, iron tools, weapons etc., collected within the ringwall during the excavations 1934-42, proved that the site had been used by people at the end of the Viking Age, not that the whole construction site was erected in 980-81. Poul Nørlund had regarded the bowl-formed Viking Age fibula of ca. 950-1000, which was found in a fireplace at the courtyard, to lay below one of the burgh's longhouses, and accordingly to be older than the house. But also the opposite could be the case - the house may have laid there first, but had become decayed or burnt down, and later the fireplace where the fibula was found could have been dug into the ground of the old house."

(Niels Ishøj Christensen: Den store konges borg – På sporet av det skjulte Trelleborg (Forlaget Loke, Søborg, 2007; ISBN-10: 8799173301, ISBN-13: 978-8799173303))

This only to visualize how difficult the dating of ringwall-burghs is. One thing is for sure: the ringwall-burgh type is much older than the Viking Age. The Dore Hill Fort near Fowey in Cornwall, for instance, is dated to the 4th century BC - it even seems to have 6 gates instead of 4.

http://www.historic-...castle_dore.htm

www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsBritain/BritainCornubia.htm

I agree those ringforts may be older, but I was actually talking about the Dutch ringwall burghs.

And the dates of these burghs have been established in recent decades, not in the 1930's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is sâta exactly anyway? (and why is it dweller)

Thêr to boppa hêdon wi tha nôma Landsâton, Mârsata aend Holtjefta Wodsâta.

sod (n.1) "slice of earth with grass on it," early 15c., apparently from Middle Dutch sode "turf," Middle Low German sode, or Old Frisian satha "sod," all of uncertain origin.

http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=sod

Old Frisian satha/sod - piece of earth with grass on it/turf

Mar-satha

sâth-a

6, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Rasen (M.); ne. sod; Hw.: vgl. mnd. sôde; Q.: E;

E.: ?; W.: saterl. sade; L.: Hh 89b, Hh 171, Rh 1001a

We have been there before: sata = seated, or in Dutch, 'ge-zetenen', 'zittenden'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ingezetenen residents, citizens, in Old Frisian, "inseten".

*sæt-a (1), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Sasse, Sitzender; ne. settler; Vw.: s. bê-n-,

lan-d-; Hw.: s. dru-st-a; vgl. ahd. *sazo?; E.: s. germ. *setæ-, *setæn, *seta-, *setan,

sw. M. (n), Sitzender; vgl. idg. *sed- (A), V., sitzen, Pokorny 884; L.:

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-S.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

moor (n.)

"waste ground," Old English mor "morass, swamp," from Proto-Germanic *mora- (cf. Old Saxon, Middle Dutch, Dutch meer "swamp," Old High German muor "swamp," also "sea," German Moor "moor," Old Norse mörr "moorland," marr "sea"), perhaps related to mere (n.), or from root *mer- "to die," hence "dead land."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=moor&allowed_in_frame=0

morass (n.)

"wet, swampy tract," 1650s, from Dutch moeras "marsh, fen," from Middle Dutch marasch, from Old French marais "marsh," from Frankish, possibly from West Germanic *marisk, from Proto-Germanic *mariskaz "like a lake," from *mari "sea" (see mere (n.)). The word was influenced in Dutch by moer "moor" (see moor (n.)). Figurative use is attested from 1867. Replaced earlier mareis (early 14c.; see marish).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=morass&searchmode=none

From Marsac(i) to Marasc ??

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=VMNW&id=ID14016

It's interesting to note that this word ("marasc") for morass, swamp is restricted to the area of West-Flanders, just where some locate the Marsacii.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why?

The Aken/Liêge area.has nothing to do with the Fly or with Lake Flevo.

Click to enlarge:

post-18246-0-08139500-1362827126_thumb.j

.

I should add that the further back you go in time, the smaller Lake Flevo becomes. That means that the South Flylands shift even further to the north.

And not only Jakob van Lennep calls the lake (a) "Meir", but you can read it in an older Dutch source (18th century):

http://books.google....s flevo&f=false

.

Edited by Abramelin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot add to this epic thread as it is not in my scope of expertise, though it is of interest to me, particulary the linguistic aspects. I have learnt more about this subject here than from any other form of media. Thanks to all posters here, some of whom must surely be proffesors in real life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot add to this epic thread as it is not in my scope of expertise, though it is of interest to me, particulary the linguistic aspects. I have learnt more about this subject here than from any other form of media. Thanks to all posters here, some of whom must surely be proffesors in real life.

Thanks for the compliment, Atentutankh, but that last remark must have been made 'tongue in cheek', right?

Lol.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the compliment, Atentutankh, but that last remark must have been made 'tongue in cheek', right?

Lol.

No, it was serious :blush:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should add that the further back you go in time, the smaller Lake Flevo becomes. That means that the South Flylands shift even further to the north.

And not only Jakob van Lennep calls the lake (a) "Meir", but you can read it in an older Dutch source (18th century):

http://books.google....s flevo&f=false

.

Yes, it's all a mystery. Wish someone could come up with a good idea or some find which clears it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope the next is one mystery solved:

Buda_Beda_zps7de595b7.jpg

Izaak Tirion - 1750 (map of the Old Netherlands)

http://wiki.toenleidschendam-voorburg.nl/images/5/50/Kaart_009.jpg

http://wiki.toenleidschendam-voorburg.nl/wiki/Collectie_Duijvestein_-_totaal

Bitburg originated approximately 2000 years ago as a stopover for traffic from Lyon, through Metz and Trier to Cologne. The first mentioned name was “Vicus Beda”. Emperor Constantine the Great expanded the settlement to a road castle around 330, the central part of which forms the town centre to the present day. Bitburg is first documented only after the end of the Roman Empire around 715 as “castrum bedense”. It subsequently became part of Franconia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitburg

So I was thinking that "Buda" could have been this "Beda".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kennemerland gets its name from the Kennemer people, who were Frisians that fought with the Counts of Holland and lost in the Middle Ages. The name is said to derive from the Canninefates.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kennemerland

I agree with that, but did it belong to the Frisian political structure ? E.g. an important old city like Haarlem has not been mentioned in the OLB, nor other castles in Kennemerland. By the way, what makes you think Waraburch was on Wieringen ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope the next is one mystery solved:

Buda_Beda_zps7de595b7.jpg

Izaak Tirion - 1750 (map of the Old Netherlands)

http://wiki.toenleid...0/Kaart_009.jpg

http://wiki.toenleid...estein_-_totaal

Bitburg originated approximately 2000 years ago as a stopover for traffic from Lyon, through Metz and Trier to Cologne. The first mentioned name was “Vicus Beda”. Emperor Constantine the Great expanded the settlement to a road castle around 330, the central part of which forms the town centre to the present day. Bitburg is first documented only after the end of the Roman Empire around 715 as “castrum bedense”. It subsequently became part of Franconia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitburg

So I was thinking that "Buda" could have been this "Beda".

Well found, but Beda is not Buda in the area of the Haga Fenna and Walda. On the same map you find in Frisia the wood (Walda) Baduhenna, which could be something like Wald of Buda (Badu).

Edited by Knul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 11

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.