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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

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According to the book it was seemingly made one copy only. You can read it from what Apollânja and Wiljo write.

The Oera Linda's were in a leading position, and it was also Adela's idea to do the transcriptions.

That particular family probably felt a special responsibility for taking care of their people's history.

Moreover, they hadn't any copy machines in those days - it was quite a work to make transcriptions, and how and where should they do it? And the scribes had certainly enough to do, and people in general had enough to think about - they didn't think of things so remote from their daily lives as to see to it that their history became preserved.

And Adela's family took care of the recording, so why should they then worry about it?

Another thing: If there existed several copies, the individual families keeping them wouldn't be so concerned about them not getting lost.

It would also have been dangerous to be in the possession of a manuscript like that in those times.

And the writings would have to be copied over and over again as time went on.

I think we should be happy that a history like that has survived at all.

Exactly Apol.

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They may have not been interested in their own history that much, but they sure must have felt the need to copy all those laws and regulations?

So someone living in a burgt like Münster, Buda, Kattenburch and so on would at least copy those laws and regulations, and others after him or her.

I think the times changed and those laws became obsolete, you followed OTHER laws now and forgot you even had your own laws once.

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The Frisians were the ones who resisted conversion to Christianity the longest of all European tribes, as far as I know, so more than just the Frisians in Leeuwarden (or Enkhuizen) may have felt the need to preserve their book of their history and laws.

Same thing may have happened during the time the Magi took over, and they must have known of the book.

And there where not only Over de Lindens in Leeuwarden and Enkhuizen, but elsewhere too.

Just to acknowledge my error, their was 1 original, not 5.

I hear you but my opinion is that it's possible that no copies exist today.

The Oera Lindas may have been one of the few original Frisian families even still in Frisia.

Recalling this:

The ancient Frisii were forced to resettle within Roman territory as serfs (laeti) about 300, and disappeared as a distinct group. (snip..) Third, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, there was a decline in population as Roman activity stopped and Roman institutions withdrew. As a result of these three factors, the Frisii and Frisiaevones disappeared from the area. The coastal lands remained largely unpopulated for the next two centuries

As climatic conditions improved, there was another mass migration of Germanic peoples into the area from the east. This is known as the "Migration Period" (Volksverhuizingen). The northern Netherlands received an influx of new migrants and settlers, mostly Saxons, but also Angles and Jutes. Many of these migrants did not stay in the northern Netherlands but moved on to England and are known today as the Anglo-Saxons. The newcomers that stayed in the northern Netherlands would eventually be referred to as "Frisians", although they were not descended from the ancient Frisii.

These new Frisians settled in the northern Netherlands and would become the ancestors of the modern Frisians.[37][38] (Because the early Frisians and Anglo-Saxons were formed from largely identical tribal confederacies, their respective languages were very similar. Old Frisian is the most closely related language to Old English[39] and the modern Frisian dialects are in turn the closest related languages to contemporary English.) By the end of the 6th century, the Frisian territory in the northern Netherlands had expanded west to the North Sea coast and, by the 7th century, south to Dorestad. During this period most of the northern Netherlands was known as Frisia. This extended Frisian territory is sometimes referred to as Frisia Magna (or Greater Frisia).

http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands

Edited by The Puzzler

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Even if the Frisii were resettled, then they still could have taken their books with laws and chronicles with them?

It's not like taking a boulder along with you?

Just compare it with the Jewish diaspora: they took their books along too.

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I think the times changed and those laws became obsolete, you followed OTHER laws now and forgot you even had your own laws once.

Those laws finally became obsolete in West Friesland too, but still they copied them.

I can't imagine the West Frisian Over de Lindens were that unique.

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Interesting too.

So, is W a separate letter? Maybe not. Maybe it's just showing the double ligature version of it's use, VV as what appears as W in the letter list - which might not actually be a W - as well as regular V as V. The same letter no-id-ea mentioned. The W that is on the manuscript pages could be from sheer laziness to lift your ink pen, unneeding to dip again. Being a lazyish person, I'd do that, not take my pen off while joining 2 V's. It's just a running writing/cursive step without being officially cursive.

I showed you how "Wralda" was written around the Yule wheel: -W- is one of the 6 letters making up the name Wralda:

WRALDA-YULE.jpg

And -W- does not appear in the letter list, like the letter for -NG- .

.

Edited by Abramelin

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They may have not been interested in their own history that much, but they sure must have felt the need to copy all those laws and regulations?

So someone living in a burgt like Münster, Buda, Kattenburch and so on would at least copy those laws and regulations, and others after him or her.

They did surely copy the texts from the burghs, but probably on some paper or the like.

It would have vanished anyway.

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They did surely copy the texts from the burghs, but probably on some paper or the like.

It would have vanished anyway.

Copied and copied and copied.

You can't expect to use the same book of laws for centuries.

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And -W- does not appear in the letter list, like the letter for -NG- .

.

That's true. In fact, I hadn't noticed it.

That's a strong indication that the W is a double V. They made it a W because then they didn't have to lift the pen between the V's, which meet up right and left anyway.

Edited by Apol

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That's true. In fact, I hadn't noticed it.

That's a strong indication that the W is a double V. They made it a W because then they didn't have to lift the pen between the V's, which meet up right and left anyway.

WRALDA-YULE.jpg

Here they had all the time in the world to lift their pen, but didn't because they considered the -W- to be a unique, separate letter:

.

Edited by Abramelin

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WRALDA-YULE.jpg

Here they all the time in the world to lift their pen, but didn't because they considered the -W- to be an unique, separate letter:

So where is it in the letter list? ... as you said and I said, it's not or at least it doesn't look like that, so it could be a double V.

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I wonder if instead of touching the bottom of her garment/tunic they touched the back of her neck. hnecca in English is quite like tohnekka, without the t sound

From Middle English nekke, nakke, from Old English hnecca, *hnæcca (“neck, nape”), from Proto-Germanic *hnakkô (“nape, neck”), from Proto-Indo-European *knog-, *kneg- (“back of the head, nape, neck”). Cognate with Scots nek ("neck"), North Frisian neek, neeke, Nak ("neck"), Saterland Frisian Näcke ("neck"), West Frisian nekke ("neck"), Dutch nek ("neck"), Low German Nakke ("neck"), German Nacken ("nape of the neck"), Danish nakke ("neck"), Swedish nacke ("neck"), Icelandic hnakki ("neck"), Tocharian A kñuk ("neck, nape"). Possibly a mutated variant of *kneug/k (cf. Old English hnocc 'hook, penis', Welsh cnwch 'joint, knob', Latvian knaūķis 'dwarf', Ancient Greek knychóō 'to draw together'). More at nook.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/neck

Edit: I see it's the slyp of her tohnekka so maybe neck is not good, maybe slyp has a meaning I'm unaware of, yet.

What is it to hem? Like slip, undergarment type womens slip? So, not really a hem, more her slip.

This seems to make it sure seem like tunic. It's not made of linen anyway.

Hira hemeth is linnen, hira tohnekka wol, thaet hjv selva spon aend wêvade.[OLB]

Haar hemd is linnen, haar tunica wol, dat zij zelve spon en weefde.[Dutch]

Her shirt/skirt is of linnen, her tunic (?) is of wool, that she herself spun and wove.[English/me]

Her garments of linen and wool she spun and wove herself.[sandbach

Edited by The Puzzler

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Saxon dress mentions this: A linen undertunic (worn under the outer woollen tunic)

Her undertunic is possibly what they touched - her slip type tunic, probably the linen one under her woollen one.

Still tunic though I know, just defining that part above.

What's interesting though, is the word in Latin is a possible borrowing from Etruscan. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tunica#Latin

I always defend the possibility too that while in Near Krekaland/Italy their language was with them and their is no reason they did not impart certain words into Etruscan or Latin at that time.

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Interesting too.

So, is W a separate letter? Maybe not. Maybe it's just showing the double ligature version of it's use, VV as what appears as W in the letter list - which might not actually be a W - as well as regular V as V. The same letter no-id-ea mentioned. The W that is on the manuscript pages could be from sheer laziness to lift your ink pen, unneeding to dip again. Being a lazyish person, I'd do that, not take my pen off while joining 2 V's. It's just a running writing/cursive step without being officially cursive.

Thats what i am thinking Puzzler , the original run and stand script did not forget the W , they did not have it at that time , they just had V or VV , maybe the W was only updated useage in the 13th C copying of the wet wridden book .........another little thing the so-called forgers would have had to know in order to fake it

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See bolded text: no, I don't think so.

Here is part of the original letter sheet:

(click to enlarge)

post-18246-0-59818300-1364555114_thumb.j

And every people from around the Med and the Middle East had a separate letter for -N- and -M- for thousands of years already.

yes you are probably right Abe, M is the pyramid shape and NN would not do it , its not the upside down u , as in nn , and i can see for the same reason W is double V rather than double U , strange they called it double U in English ,and not double V

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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yes you are probably right Abe, M is the pyramid shape and NN would not do it , its not the upside down u , as in nn , and i can see for the same reason W is double V rather than double U , strange they called it double U in English ,and not double V

In general, Scandinavians have problems with pronouncing the W when talking English. Most people give it the same sound as the V. Even if the W exists in the Scandinavian alphabets, it is a foreign letter to us, only used for foreign words and for some family names changed by affectation.

In fact, the OLB shows us why the letters V and W are different in pronounciation - it is two V's, and should be pronounced as that.

I wouldn't say that the W emerged from laziness. It emerged from practical and visual reasons.

Astoundingly, in the wheel (jol) the W is regarded as being one letter - even if it doesn't exist as a letter in the alphabet.

Edited by Apol

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I showed you how "Wralda" was written around the Yule wheel: -W- is one of the 6 letters making up the name Wralda:

WRALDA-YULE.jpg

And -W- does not appear in the letter list, like the letter for -NG- .

.

Whenever you put up that image of the wheel Abe , there is a feint stroke by the letter W , is this a modern image or a copy of an old one , and if its old why was it there ?, i am presuming its just a modern error at the moment !!

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Here's Vearalden: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Väraldarade

and Waralden...

Waralden Olmai, also known as Maylmen Olmai, Radien-attje, Jubmel or Vearalden Olmai, was a major Sami god. Sami people come from Sápmi, or modern day Finland, Sweden, and Norway. These ancient Nordic people were polytheistic and "Waralden Olmai" was their "world-god". Waralden Olmai is also an epithet for the Germanic Freyr. Today Waralden Olmai is a mythologic figure in Nordic countries.

http://en.wikipedia..../Waralden_Olmai

and here the Magi of the North...

In Lapland, the Saami shaman (called the Magi of the North) is believed to have the power to raise the wind and storms.

The Saami shaman, or noid (also spelled nojd, noyde and noajdde), was believed to have the gift of second sight, invisibility, shape-shifting, weird visions and the capability to create false apparitions. Because of this power, Martin Luther called Lapland the home of the devil. Missionaries to Lapland believed that the noid were literally possessed by demons, and the shaman's drum was a powerful "instrument and tool of the devil." The regions and peoples of the extreme North have always held a special fascination for peoples in the temperate zones. The excessive cold, the winter darkness and the reputed mystical powers of the Hyperborean people have long attracted the imagination of writers, adventurers and seekers of mystic powers. Surely, Santa Claus lives in the North because, like a holy Magi, he holds the great supernatural power of the noid.

http://www.laweekly....a-wildman/full/

Edited by The Puzzler

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This is how the OLB should look like if it were a manuscript from the 13th century.

Freeska_Landriucht.jpg-for-web-large.jpg

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This is how the OLB should look like if it were a manuscript from the 13th century.

Freeska_Landriucht.jpg-for-web-large.jpg

You truly think Hiddo would have written it like that?

OKKE MY SON—

You must preserve these books with body and soul. They contain the history of all our people, as well as of our forefathers. Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother; but they got wet, and therefore began to perish. In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.

In case you inherit them, you must copy them likewise, and your children must do so too, so that they may never be lost.

Written at Liuwert, in the three thousand four hundred and forty-ninth year after Atland was submerged—that is, according to the Christian reckoning, the year 1256.

Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda.—Watch

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Hello,

Impressive amount of information you got going on... well done!

I felt like breaking my silence regarding this thread/post, it is confirming many of my suspicions. You seem to be bravely "wading" through a dense linguistic "swamp" of words and facts, and it is mind boggling how language (any language) can be so complex. I really am ridiculously scared to talk about this. I find that the grave accusations made here, reflect all the psychological weight of the subject, so no need to say more. I just felt like writing something about what you have been discussing (but not getting into details).

Abramelin,

I hope you are for real (and not who it was said you were)...

Talking about copies....

I always said it is strange that only one copy of the OLB survived.

Has it ever crossed your mind that oral tradition could have been chosen instead of a written record? I remind you of that the “christianization” that took place in those days, especially in northern Europe, in the beginning of the Crusades, must have had dire obliterating consequences, whether to written or spoken information. The possibly existing copies of the OLB and other documents or even the very idea of it, was simply “erased” from the records? And even those who might have known something, hid it from “strange” eyes and ears, fearing punishment and/or death. The BS speaks of a long time oral tradition, where ancient “his tory” was encapsulated. From what i have read of the OLB (never finished the book, but read many parts several times), it has the same approach, in the sense that it is a story told to a son, of ancient traditions but of disturbing events going on at the time too. In my opinion, their goal seems to be that of perpetuating an ancient information, regarding Atlantis (?) demise, but also of how was society organized and how you should continue to follow that ancient tradition. The use of brute force by the church while evangelizing the “unfaithful” must have changed the way nordic people lived their own cultures. Resuming, i find that it is a desperate cry that “survived” the then wild days of inquisition, but this all failed to be understood properly.

“People have attempted to understand why the Indian philosophy has reached highest in the world, despite the people having neither reading nor writing skills. But it has been built up through an oral tradition. The eldest was taught by his father, and it was his duty to again teach his siblings “ — Ior Svedlin (Bock) to Hufvudstadsbladet May 4, 1982[2]

Puzzler,

W:

In other Germanic languages, including German, its name is similar or identical to that of English V.[4] In many languages, its name literally means "double v": Spanish doble ve (though it can be spelled uve doble),[5][note 1] French double vé, Icelandic tvöfalt vaff, Czech dvojité vé, Finnish kaksois-vee, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W

Literally double V - so a W written as VV would not be that odd. That it's in Finnish is especially interesting.

I think you are absolutely right!

Never knew why the English or Portuguese call the letter W, double U (UU) in the first place... although they are very close to each other, that is UVW.

In Finish (according to the wiki link you posted), the W has the same value as V, does that not ring bells? According to Svedlin (Ior), the letter V stood for Vaner (people), who spoke Van Language (one language) contrary to more ancient Aser people who spoke Rot language. Rot language was the first, then came the Van language...

“In Norse mythology, the Vanir (singular Vanr) are a group of gods associated with fertility, wisdom and the ability to see the future. The Vanir are one of two groups of gods (the other being the Æsir) and are the namesake of the location Vanaheimr ("Home of the Vanir"). After the Æsir–Vanir War, the Vanir became a subgroup of the Æsir. Subsequently, members of the Vanir are sometimes also referred to as members of the Æsir.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanir

Therefore, i believe the letter VV is really just a symbolism, perhaps marking the beginning of a new era of descendancy of the letter V. Notice that in the so called Aser Alphabet, the letter W is intertwined with the Y letter (which stands for Ygdrasil):

alfabet.jpg

BTW: the letter U likewise strangely meant Ursprung...

Etymology

From Middle High German ursprunc, from Old High German ursprung, corresponding to ur- +‎ Sprung. Compare Dutch oorsprong.

Pronunciation


  • IPA: [ˈʔuːɐ̯ʃpʁʊŋ]

Noun

Ursprung m (genitive Ursprungs or Ursprunges, plural Ursprünge)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ursprung

More food for thought...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

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You truly think Hiddo would have written it like that?

OKKE MY SON—

You must preserve these books with body and soul. They contain the history of all our people, as well as of our forefathers. Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother; but they got wet, and therefore began to perish. In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.

In case you inherit them, you must copy them likewise, and your children must do so too, so that they may never be lost.

Written at Liuwert, in the three thousand four hundred and forty-ninth year after Atland was submerged—that is, according to the Christian reckoning, the year 1256.

Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda.—Watch

If Hidde would have lived in the 13th century, he would have done so. By the way, his name is not Hiddo as Ottema says, but Hidde according to the manuscript.

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So where is it in the letter list? ... as you said and I said, it's not or at least it doesn't look like that, so it could be a double V.

Like i said: nor the -W- nor the -NG- is in the letter list. It appears someone forgot to add these two letters to the letter list.

.

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).

Abramelin,

I hope you are for real (and not who it was said you were)...

Has it ever crossed your mind that oral tradition could have been chosen instead of a written record? I remind you of that the “christianization” that took place in those days, especially in northern Europe, in the beginning of the Crusades, must have had dire obliterating consequences, whether to written or spoken information. The possibly existing copies of the OLB and other documents or even the very idea of it, was simply “erased” from the records? And even those who might have known something, hid it from “strange” eyes and ears, fearing punishment and/or death. The BS speaks of a long time oral tradition, where ancient “his tory” was encapsulated. From what i have read of the OLB (never finished the book, but read many parts several times), it has the same approach, in the sense that it is a story told to a son, of ancient traditions but of disturbing events going on at the time too. In my opinion, their goal seems to be that of perpetuating an ancient information, regarding Atlantis (?) demise, but also of how was society organized and how you should continue to follow that ancient tradition. The use of brute force by the church while evangelizing the “unfaithful” must have changed the way nordic people lived their own cultures. Resuming, i find that it is a desperate cry that “survived” the then wild days of inquisition, but this all failed to be understood properly.

“People have attempted to understand why the Indian philosophy has reached highest in the world, despite the people having neither reading nor writing skills. But it has been built up through an oral tradition. The eldest was taught by his father, and it was his duty to again teach his siblings “ — Ior Svedlin (Bock) to Hufvudstadsbladet May 4, 1982[2]

I am for real, but what did 'they' say I am??

-

It was a written tradition. Around 2200 BCE the OLB script was invented by Fasta and with them the history of the Fryans , including their laws and regulations were transmitted, at least from the 6th century BCE and onwards

The multitude of (strict) laws and regulations would not have been passed down orally.

-

It's not about "Atlantis", but about "Aldland/Atland".

-

If the West Frisian Over de Linden's could have passed the book, including the family chronicle from generation to generation, so will others not belonging to the Over de Linden family have passed the laws and regulations from generation to generation. It's not very likely that those living far away from Texland would have traveled all the way to Texland every time there was some dispute to find out about the hows and whys and what-to-dos: they must have had a copy of the laws and regulations ready at hand.

-

I know you said more, but something personal has happened to my family and me hours ago (after 'waiting' for 30 hours) and the OLB is a way to distract me, but my head is not clear enough. Maybe later.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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If Hidde would have lived in the 13th century, he would have done so. By the way, his name is not Hiddo as Ottema says, but Hidde according to the manuscript.

I don't think he would have had to, not like he's in the Church or anything - it's a secret manuscript.

Anyway, nothing says this manuscript has to be written in the 13th century. This copy could have been done anytime.

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