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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

Like i said: nor the -W- nor the -NG- is in the letter list. It appears someone forgot to add these two letters to the letter list.

.

This is the NG letter in the letter list on page 46:

TheOeraLindangletter_zps0212fdd3.jpg

The W isn't a separate letter, but simply two V's, and the V is in the same letter list.

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Like i said: nor the -W- nor the -NG- is in the letter list. It appears someone forgot to add these two letters to the letter list.

.

Quite frankly I find you the most real person on this board.

NG is between N and M. Apol has posted the original above and here is the copy. It's there.

image004.gif

Edited by The Puzzler

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I don't think he would have had to, not like he's in the Church or anything - it's a secret manuscript.

Anyway, nothing says this manuscript has to be written in the 13th century. This copy could have been done anytime.

What makes it a secret manuscript ?

Otttema dates the manuscript in the 13th century. Was he wrong ?

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What makes it a secret manuscript ?

Otttema dates the manuscript in the 13th century. Was he wrong ?

I mean to not let monks see them they must have been written outside the Church, which means 'secretive'.

Either way, I see no need for the manuscript to be written like that.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I'm not using any website, but Goffe Jensma's book Het Oera Linda-boek, where there are photos of every page in the original manuscript.

That book is indeed of good use for the page-photos and line numbering.

But the translation is sometimes horrible and the introduction contains much misinformation, for example already in the first paragraph of the foreword (p.7):

"Nu 134 jaar geleden, in 1872, kwam dr. J.G. Ottema met een eerste editie, die in 1876 werd herdrukt, in 1972 gereprint en die ten grondslag ligt aan alle buitenlandse vertalingen. [...] In de buitenlandse vertalingen werd niet alleen Ottema's transcriptie maar ook diens vertaling tot uitgangspunt genomen."

Translated (my underlining):

"Now 134 years ago, in 1872, dr. Ottema punlished a first edition, that was reprinted in 1876 and 1972, and was the basis of all foreign translations. [...] In the foreign translations, not only Ottema's transcription but also his translation were used as a starting point."

The German translation (1933) by Dr. Wirth was NOT based on Ottema's translation.

Example: creation myth ("FORMA SKÉDNISE")

Ottema, page 13

"Haat trad tot haar binnen. En nu baarden zij elk twaalf zonen en twaalf dochteren, elke juultijd een paar."

=> hate came in them

Wirth, page 16

"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein und nun gebar jede zwölf Söhne und zwölf Töchter, eine jegliche Julzeit zween."

=> od (God's breath) came in them

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This is 15th century and the paper looks a bit like the Oera Linda book and the writing, although not like the OLB Jul script is plainer like the OLB. Written in Dutch apparently.

dutch_15_recto.jpg

http://www.guillermi...alli/index.html

Translator's Preface by Ottema for interest: http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb02.htm

Edited by The Puzzler

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Quite frankly I find you the most real person on this board.

NG is between N and M. Apol has posted the original above and here is the copy. It's there.

image004.gif

Like I said yesterday, my head wasn't very clear. I didn't mean the -NG- letter, but the -GS- letter.

Top is from the original letter sheet, bottom is Ottema's version:

GS_original_ottema_zps38bdec36.jpg

Edited by Abramelin

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This is the NG letter in the letter list on page 46:

TheOeraLindangletter_zps0212fdd3.jpg

The W isn't a separate letter, but simply two V's, and the V is in the same letter list.

W was used as one of the 6 letters of Wralda's name, put around a Yule wheel.

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That book is indeed of good use for the page-photos and line numbering.

But the translation is sometimes horrible and the introduction contains much misinformation, for example already in the first paragraph of the foreword (p.7):

"Nu 134 jaar geleden, in 1872, kwam dr. J.G. Ottema met een eerste editie, die in 1876 werd herdrukt, in 1972 gereprint en die ten grondslag ligt aan alle buitenlandse vertalingen. [...] In de buitenlandse vertalingen werd niet alleen Ottema's transcriptie maar ook diens vertaling tot uitgangspunt genomen."

Translated (my underlining):

"Now 134 years ago, in 1872, dr. Ottema punlished a first edition, that was reprinted in 1876 and 1972, and was the basis of all foreign translations. [...] In the foreign translations, not only Ottema's transcription but also his translation were used as a starting point."

The German translation (1933) by Dr. Wirth was NOT based on Ottema's translation.

Example: creation myth ("FORMA SKÉDNISE")

Ottema, page 13

"Haat trad tot haar binnen. En nu baarden zij elk twaalf zonen en twaalf dochteren, elke juultijd een paar."

=> hate came in them

Wirth, page 16

"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein und nun gebar jede zwölf Söhne und zwölf Töchter, eine jegliche Julzeit zween."

=> od (God's breath) came in them

Yes, I love Jensma's line numbering. In at least one page the numbering is wrong, though, but I think a book without some faults doesn't exist.

Jensma is as exact as one can expect. He has done a great and important work and brought the Oera Linda Book onto the stage again.

I don't agree with him in all matters, but that's a completely different thing.

Wirth's translation is as 'confusing' as my own Norwegian. He changed the order of the texts...

Edited by Apol

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Ottema, page 13

"Haat trad tot haar binnen. En nu baarden zij elk twaalf zonen en twaalf dochteren, elke juultijd een paar."

=> hate came in them

Wirth, page 16

"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein und nun gebar jede zwölf Söhne und zwölf Töchter, eine jegliche Julzeit zween."

=> od (God's breath) came in them

And it was Reichenbach who first used the term "OD" in the meaning as used in the OLB:

The Odic force (also called Od [õd], Odyle, Önd, Odes, Odylic, Odyllic, or Odems) is the name given in the mid-19th century to a hypothetical vital energy or life force by Baron Carl von Reichenbach. Von Reichenbach coined the name from that of the Norse god Odin in 1845.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Odic_force

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Ottema changed and 'corrected' some things in the OLB, for god knows what reason.

For instance: why did he change the name "Jes-us" into "Jessos"?

I think I know why.

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Jensma is as exact as one can expect.

The mistake I mentioned is not a minor one.

Wirth's German translation of 1933 caused more turmoil than the English one by Sandbach of 1876.

Jensma already published about the OLB in 1992 and wrote his doctors-thesis about it (published 2004).

To start his 2006 book with a major untruth in the first paragraph of the foreword is very sloppy (to put it mildly), and just one example because there are many more.

I don't think Jensma is a conspirator, but I do suspect him of having a (religious) agenda.

He started his 1992 article with two bible quotes, as was mentioned before in this thread.

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And it was Reichenbach who first used the term "OD" in the meaning as used in the OLB

Martin Luther used the term "Gottes Odem" in his translation (16th century) of the creation myth from the Christian bible.

Same context: God gives life to Adam.

I don't know where I read it but in Oldsaxon or Oldnorse the word would also mean something like spirit or something related to life-force or fertility.

Reichenbach chose his term well, but he was not the first to make that association.

The "oôt" in my signatury (in a proverb that I read in a westfrisian dictionary) appearantly is a virtually indestructable weed.

Would make sense if "od" would mean life-force, would it not?

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Ottema changed and 'corrected' some things in the OLB, for god knows what reason.

For instance: why did he change the name "Jes-us" into "Jessos"?

I think I know why.

On 13 October 2011, 'Otharus' said:

BTW, in the manuscript (p.138) the names are "JES-US", "KRIS-EN" and "BûDA".

"Jessos" was used by Ottema, probably as an attempt to not offend Christians too much; an attempt that failed.

adding edit:

I wish you strength, Abramelin.

Edited by gestur

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On 13 October 2011, 'Otharus' said:

adding edit:

I wish you strength, Abramelin.

Thanks Gestur. I will need it.

==

You said:

BTW, in the manuscript (p.138) the names are "JES-US", "KRIS-EN" and "BûDA".

"Jessos" was used by Ottema, probably as an attempt to not offend Christians too much; an attempt that failed.

I think he knew what many would think: that it is obvious the paragraph was based on the New Testament, or based on some 19th century ideas about who Jesus really was.

Read Gosa's texts.

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How many of us would recognise a "Linda" tree (German and Dutch: Linde) if we saw one?

Have a good look at the shape of the leave:

winterlinde-1.jpg

What we could call "heart-shaped", no?

Here is a human heart:

humanheart.png

What looks more like our universal symbol of love?

harten%20vrouw.jpg

In several very old german and dutch love-songs, the Linde tree plays a role (couples kissing or making love under a Linde tree).

Just thinking out loud.

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And it was Reichenbach who first used the term "OD" in the meaning as used in the OLB:

The Odic force (also called Od [õd], Odyle, Önd, Odes, Odylic, Odyllic, or Odems) is the name given in the mid-19th century to a hypothetical vital energy or life force by Baron Carl von Reichenbach. Von Reichenbach coined the name from that of the Norse god Odin in 1845.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Odic_force

.

Maybe he was the first who used it in that particular way, but the Old Norse óðr means 'strong desire'.

http://archive.org/details/gamalnorskordbok00haeguoft

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How many of us would recognise a "Linda" tree (German and Dutch: Linde) if we saw one?

Have a good look at the shape of the leave:

winterlinde-1.jpg

What we could call "heart-shaped", no?

Here is a human heart:

humanheart.png

What looks more like our universal symbol of love?

harten%20vrouw.jpg

In several very old german and dutch love-songs, the Linde tree plays a role (couples kissing or making love under a Linde tree).

Just thinking out loud.

The Linden Tree was also a symbol of Frya/Freya, and a symbol of freedom and liberation.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I think he knew what many would think: that it is obvious the paragraph was based on the New Testament, or based on some 19th century ideas about who Jesus really was.

To me that is not obvious at all.

I have seen a convincing BBC documentary about a theory that Jesus of Nazareth had had (part of) his education with Budhist monks in India.

His original name may have been "Isa", while in India he may have received a new/other name "Jesus", which would have been one of the other names of Budha.

This still happens nowadays, that spiritual teachers have various names and that initiates receive a new name from their teacher.

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Maybe he was the first who used it in that particular way, but the Old Norse óðr means 'strong desire'.

http://archive.org/d...rdbok00haeguoft

But 'strong desire' wouldn't fit into what the OLB tells us about "OD".

Reichenbach's vital energy or life force does.

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The mistake I mentioned is not a minor one.

Wirth's German translation of 1933 caused more turmoil than the English one by Sandbach of 1876.

Jensma already published about the OLB in 1992 and wrote his doctors-thesis about it (published 2004).

To start his 2006 book with a major untruth in the first paragraph of the foreword is very sloppy (to put it mildly), and just one example because there are many more.

I don't think Jensma is a conspirator, but I do suspect him of having a (religious) agenda.

He started his 1992 article with two bible quotes, as was mentioned before in this thread.

Maybe you're right in that.

I've also suspected Jensma having a religious agenda, because then his theories will make more sense to me.

There are so many strange theories about the OLB, though, that it would just fit in with all the others.

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To me that is not obvious at all.

I have seen a convincing BBC documentary about a theory that Jesus of Nazareth had had (part of) his education with Budhist monks in India.

His original name may have been "Isa", while in India he may have received a new/other name "Jesus", which would have been one of the other names of Budha.

This still happens nowadays, that spiritual teachers have various names and that initiates receive a new name from their teacher.

And that is one of the ideas running around during the 19th century.

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Reichenbach's vital energy or life force does.

So does Oldnorse "spirit".

And that is one of the ideas running around during the 19th century.

It may be true.

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But 'strong desire' wouldn't fit into what the OLB tells us about "OD".

Reichenbach's vital energy or life force does.

I would say it does - it may suit perfectly. Why should 'vital energy' or 'life force' suit any better?

The word also exist in New Norwegian as od.

Edited by Apol

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the Old Norse óðr means 'strong desire'.

"Strong desire" is a perfect description of "life force".

I can see how this evolved from a general meaning into something more specific like "rage" (in some oldnorse texts) and in Latin "hate" (odium), from which Ottema got his translation.

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