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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

I know i speculate too much for everyones liking , but once i have these thoughts i like to get them off my chest , so i am just going to put them in a post , and if everyone wants to ignore that post , i dont have a problem with that , because most of the time i know i will be wrong .

from one of the books Abe posted the coast of Spain/Portugal was where the phoenicians found metal ores , and it seems they brought slaves to mine them , the people who were native dont seem to have discovered metal yet, or had any use for it , from the word Gadir , came the word Gades , Cadiz , ....from this word it seems to me they could also use Kadiz ,Khades , and from that Hades.........from the hard life of a slave breaking rocks , and then making large fires , smelting rocks to obtain the metal could be how the legend of Hades , a place of forced labour , with fire , and no opportunity to escape , could have emerged .

there was one group of warriors that refused to go outside the pillars of hercules , because they said they would fight for their king anywhere in the world , but they would not go to fight outside the world , which is what they considered was the other side of the pillars . this then could add to the legend , all the time you are in the world you are alive, but if you were sent to hades , you were outside the world , were never seen again , so you were dead in hades (Gades).

I think this thread is a lot of speculation, it's all good.

Gades I speculate means gates, as walled stronghold, a harbour with a big wall, maybe like a gate. I think the idea of the mining slaves dying in a kind of Hell, Hades may have protected them, but I was thinking salt mines as for the Celts before, Gades is an interesting place for sure, the strait of Gibraltar might have been seen as a gate, in and out of the 'harbour', the Mediterranean, relative to Plato's description about Atlantis.

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I am not saying that at all....

"min al bahr" means something like "from the sea".

And why don't you click on the Wiki link I posted? There you can see the etymology of Bilad Al-Sham.

.

Bilad al-Sham

The term etymologically means "land of the left hand"

https://en.wikipedia...i/Bilad_al-Sham

min al bahr al shami = from/of/belonging to the sea at the left?

Cadiz_Idrissi3_zpseec5d95d.jpg

But what's the use of all this? A quick course in Arabic?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I think this thread is a lot of speculation, it's all good.

Gades I speculate means gates, as walled stronghold, a harbour with a big wall, maybe like a gate. I think the idea of the mining slaves dying in a kind of Hell, Hades may have protected them, but I was thinking salt mines as for the Celts before, Gades is an interesting place for sure, the strait of Gibraltar might have been seen as a gate, in and out of the 'harbour', the Mediterranean, relative to Plato's description about Atlantis.

Yeah, let's forget about history and just play a bit with words.

So you're saying the Romans used a Germanic word (gates) for Cadiz? How likely is that?

But the fact that the alternative, Phoenician name, Qadesh, was used is not plausible? As far as is known, THEY gave the place its first name: Gadir, a word still used in Northern Africa and the Middle East, meaning 'stronghold', and nothing to do with quays or dikes. So it's kind of likely that the other name they used for Gadir, Qadesh, was later used by the Romans.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Yeah, let's forget about history and just play a bit with words.

So you're saying the Romans used a Germanic word (gates) for Cadiz? How likely is that?

But the fact that the alternative, Phoenician name, Qadesh, was used is not plausible? As far as is known, THEY gave the place its first name: Gadir, a word still used in Northern Africa and the Middle East, meaning 'stronghold', and nothing to do with quays or dikes. So it's kind of likely that the other name they used for Gadir, Qadesh, was later used by the Romans.

.

I see things differently maybe. Think the garden of Eden, it has gates, the gates protect the sanctuary.

That is the sanctuary, without the gate, there is no sanctuary. All cities and towns had gates. The gates of Troy imo actually represent some underlying thing that connects to Atlantis, I just can't quite unlock that one yet.

The walled stronghold is the gate that contains the sanctuary (holy place QDS).

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I see things differently maybe. Think the garden of Eden, it has gates, the gates protect the sanctuary.

That is the sanctuary, without the gate, there is no sanctuary. All cities and towns had gates. The gates of Troy imo actually represent some underlying thing that connects to Atlantis, I just can't quite unlock that one yet.

The walled stronghold is the gate that contains the sanctuary (holy place QDS).

The Garden of Eden had gates? isn't that a medieval invention? Not sure about that one.

Qadesh, Qedesh, Qetesh, Kadesh, Kedesh, Kadeš and Qades come from the common Semitic root "Q-D-Š", which means "sacred."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadesh

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Bilad al-Sham

The term etymologically means "land of the left hand"

https://en.wikipedia...i/Bilad_al-Sham

min al bahr al shami = from/of/belonging to the sea at the left?

Cadiz_Idrissi3_zpseec5d95d.jpg

But what's the use of all this? A quick course in Arabic?

.

Sorry mate !.... i am with you now , i am afraid i am a bit slower on the uptake than you ..... thanks for persevering . genuinely.

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Ah ok, I see it now:

Cadiz_Idrissi2_zpsbd1122c0.jpg

I got a bit distracted by the "Al-Gézira" name.

From this screenshot you can see the different colour , where a repair has been made , or the original has been changed ,the river and the coast dont match up perfectly , follow it to the right and some of the degrees shown do not match , i would like to see what might be under that repair ???

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The Garden of Eden had gates? isn't that a medieval invention? Not sure about that one.

Qadesh, Qedesh, Qetesh, Kadesh, Kedesh, Kadeš and Qades come from the common Semitic root "Q-D-Š", which means "sacred."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadesh

Btw, I hope everybody here is aware of the fact that near Cadiz/Gades/Qadesh there's another city. It's called (wait for it...) SIDONIA.

Coincidence?

This city was most likely ancient Asido, an Iberian settlement which may have been founded by the Phoenicians, hence the later name Sidonia reflecting its foundation by Sidon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina-Sidonia

,

Edited by Abramelin

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Btw, I hope everybody here is aware of the fact that near Cadiz/Gades/Qadesh there's another city. It's called (wait for it...) SIDONIA.

Coincidence?

This city was most likely ancient Asido, an Iberian settlement which may have been founded by the Phoenicians, hence the later name Sidonia reflecting its foundation by Sidon.

http://en.wikipedia..../Medina-Sidonia

,

It's Gadir, Phoenician word, what has Qadesh anything to do with Gadir anyway? I know what you think but it's not the same word imo.

If ka is kei or key/cay + dik/dike the name not only makes perfect sense but equates to what could be the same meaning in Phoenician - basically a cay dike, a walled stronghold.

Edited by The Puzzler

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It's Gadir, Phoenician word, what has Qadesh anything to do with Gadir anyway? I know what you think but it's not the same word imo.

If ka is kei or key/cay + dik/dike the name not only makes perfect sense but equates to what could be the same meaning in Phoenician - basically a cay dike, a walled stronghold.

No, I didn't say nor suggest Gadir is the same word as Qadesh. It's much like calling New York "The Big Apple".

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Experts in genetics at the University Complutense of Madrid, analyzed the mitochondrial DNA of the remains of two individuals located during the archaeological excavation at the Comedy Theater in Cádiz. They have found that both skeletal remains are from Phoenicia. One of the remains was found to be of mixed blood with the indigenous people while the other is of pure Phoenician descent. The result of the interaction of these populations, demonstrated the maternal or paternal ancestry of individuals studied vis-à-vis Phoenicia proper.

It is the first time that DNA studies are performed to trace ancestors and Phoenician native of Gádiz. This made it a pioneering study of "international scale," as explained by Don Antonio Castillo, City Councilor for Culture of Cádiz, in a press conference.

The fundamental strategy of philogenetic research is to understand the evolutionary processes of different populations. Thus, there have been, for example, studies to clarify the origin of the Japanese, Native American, Talayotic populations of Mallorca or ancient African populations, but among the studies that have been most important in the field of archeology and anthropology emphasizes the genetic characterization of Neanderthal man.

For this study, two individuals skeletons, which were the oldest, found in the excavation of the Comedy Theater. The first one is dated to around 720 B.C,, in a Phoenician home that was abandoned and the household materials were found in situ. The residents clearly left suddenly in a "quick hasty." They even left cooking utensils in ovens that suggest the abandonment was abrupt.

The said indicators suggest a disaster had happened and the streets had rubble from collapsed building. Skeletal remains that were exhumed in some locations demonstrate that the individuals died as a result of sever trauma and dislocated bones caused by the impact of large objects. The collapsed buildings were reconstructed hastily, and rebuilding was made over rubble remains evident today.

The second skeleton is one on which paleopathological studies were conducted. The CT was three-dimensional. Also, the individual died violently as a result of a major fire in the early sixth century B.C.

In the first individual, several DNA strains were detected (haplogroups HVOa1 y U1A) that are primarily found in Middle Eastern populations where the Phoenician presence was most notable. He or she came from Phoenician origin of the first or second generation whose father and mother settled in Phoenician Gádiz/Gadir.

The second individual is significantly different from the first one. Genetic markers in this individual were detected as linked to geographically overlapping populations with ancient Phoenicia (Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, having haplogroup K y HV1). Further, he/she was found to have haplogroup H, a strain present in Western Europe.

he research team suggests the possibility of a European maternal origin in the second. This is most probably due to the establishment of family ties among the settlers of Phoenician origin and women of the Iberian Peninsula. Integration of indigenous women in the colonies is a process well documented in other colonial processes, especially in their early stages, when there were not enough Phoenician women to ensure reproductive viability of the group, in the colonies.

As highlighted by Antonio Castillo, this is the first time DNA studies were performed on the ancestors of Cádiz, and even individual Phoenicians in the Mediterranean [except for the National Geographic Study/IBM study conducted by Dr. Spencer Wells entitled "Who were the Phoenicians"]. Nevertheless, this study, according to Castillo, is unique "making it an internationally pioneering study" because it speaks about the Phoenicians through this legacy material. However, he adds, "we have never come to know with certainty the actual geographical origin and genetic line of these populations."

Furthermore, the research continues work to study a third body, temporarily called "Valentine." It too demonstrates that the individual underwent violent death. Specifically, the face is turned down and the head is separated from the body with large stones fallen on the legs.

This work is coordinated by the Paleopetologist Manuel Calero. In addition, with collaboration from the Universidad Complutense de Madrid, there will be a study of the paleodiet of these three individuals, i.e., what were their eating habits. This is a parameter used today to differentiate populations and ancient cultures.

Phoenician International Research Center Inc. (PIRC) president, Dr. Habib Chamoun-Nicolas summer 2012 visit to Phoenician Port of Cadiz was very productive. He presented a conference about the Phoenician Gifts to Humanity to the Cadiz community, sponsored by Cadiz City Mayor Teófila Martínez. The event was coordinated by Don Enrique P. García-Agulló y Orduña, who was in charge of and coordinated CADIZ 2012 at the Casino Gaditano. He also met with the scientists working on the latest Phoenician findings in Cadiz. Dr. Chamoun met with Dr. Manolo Calero. The latter made breakthrough studies in DNA test of the Phoenician skeletons found in the Comic Theater. One was proven to be genetically of Phoenician descent. Further, the other individual was found to be of a Phoenician father and indigenous European mother -- a Phoenician of mixed blood and heritage. This intermarriage is well documented in areas were many Phoenicians settled and married European indigenous woman. Also, Dr. Chamoun met with Archeologist Jose Maria Geber, who has made some recent discoveries about a Phoenician city below the Comedy Theater in Cadiz.

http://phoenicia.org/study_skeletons_in_cadiz.html

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No, I didn't say nor suggest Gadir is the same word as Qadesh. It's much like calling New York "The Big Apple".

OK whatever your point is then, mine is that Kadik could have the same meaning as GADIR.

Not sure what the above dna article is meant to show, 2 skeletons in Cadiz were Phoenician, wow.

Edited by The Puzzler

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OK whatever your point is then, mine is that Kadik could have the same meaning as GADIR.

Not sure what the above dna article is meant to show, 2 skeletons in Cadiz were Phoenician, wow.

The oldest form of Kadik is the medieval Kadiks or Kadix. And that is derived from Kades, Gades... Qadesh.

=

Yeah, wow. But again nothing Fryan/Frisian.

It's a bloody conspiracy, I tell ya.

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The oldest form of Kadik is the medieval Kadiks or Kadix. And that is derived from Kades, Gades... Qadesh.

=

Yeah, wow. But again nothing Fryan/Frisian.

It's a bloody conspiracy, I tell ya.

lol

I'd expect to find a couple of Phoenicians there at that date that's all.

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lol

I'd expect to find a couple of Phoenicians there at that date that's all.

These Fryans were supposed to have colonies, like in Cadiz.

What were the Fryan guys doing in these colonies? Bending their knees a thousand times a day (hi Tony!)? Living celibate?

Were they not willing to leave some of their haplogroup I in these colonies?

"Rare jongens, die Fryans".

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These Fryans were supposed to have colonies, like in Cadiz.

What were the Fryan guys doing in these colonies? Bending their knees a thousand times a day (hi Tony!)? Living celibate?

Were they not willing to leave some of their haplogroup I in these colonies?

"Rare jongens, die Fryans".

I think I owe you all an explanation for those 1000 knee bends, lol:

It is essential for their work that all priestesses maintain complete control over their physical, emotional and spiritual energies, and for this reason the prohibition of orgasm and sexual activity is strictly enforced – with any lapse, regardless of its cause, resulting in immediate expulsion without appeal. Furthermore, if a priestess fails to complete her full quota of 1,200 knee-bends in any given day, she is required to do twice that number the following day, with the extra being performed during her designated sleep periods. If the problem persists into a third day she is required to do three times the usual number, taking up her learning periods too, and on the fourth day she will have to bend her knees for a full 24 hours. If she has not made up the deficit by the fifth day she is deemed incapable of doing so and expelled from the order.

http://oeralinda.webs.com/

You won't find that in the OLB, but it shows how people can distort a writing to fit their own purposes.

The site has a new name now, but some will know it's former name: "Daughters of Frya".

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?18531-Daughters-of-Frya-Priestesses’-Training-College

As far as I know, not much has become of it. Not many people are eager to live in celebacy, without any form of sex, and do stupid physical exercises for 6 hours every day. And all that for lots of money.

I wonder how Tony Steele is doing these days.

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I think I owe you all an explanation for those 1000 knee bends, lol:

It is essential for their work that all priestesses maintain complete control over their physical, emotional and spiritual energies, and for this reason the prohibition of orgasm and sexual activity is strictly enforced – with any lapse, regardless of its cause, resulting in immediate expulsion without appeal. Furthermore, if a priestess fails to complete her full quota of 1,200 knee-bends in any given day, she is required to do twice that number the following day, with the extra being performed during her designated sleep periods. If the problem persists into a third day she is required to do three times the usual number, taking up her learning periods too, and on the fourth day she will have to bend her knees for a full 24 hours. If she has not made up the deficit by the fifth day she is deemed incapable of doing so and expelled from the order.

http://oeralinda.webs.com/

You won't find that in the OLB, but it shows how people can distort a writing to fit their own purposes.

The site has a new name now, but some will know it's former name: "Daughters of Frya".

http://www.theaprici...raining-College

As far as I know, not much has become of it. Not many people are eager to live in celebacy, without any form of sex, and do stupid physical exercises for 6 hours every day. And all that for lots of money.

I wonder how Tony Steele is doing these days.

Yes, asking a bit much really, who could actually do 1200 knee bends and still walk after that? The back of legs feel sore just thinking about them.

Just on the I haplogroup in Spain:

Haplogroup I in southern Spain

Aroun 12-15% has been found in southern Spain. In Seville (n= 155) 12.3%, in Huelva+Cadiz+Cordoba (n=77) 12.98% . I think they should be included in the maps of I and I2a. The study is old, Flores et. al 2004

I'll probably dig a bit more later.

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Yes, asking a bit much really, who could actually do 1200 knee bends and still walk after that? The back of legs feel sore just thinking about them.

Just on the I haplogroup in Spain:

Haplogroup I in southern Spain

Aroun 12-15% has been found in southern Spain. In Seville (n= 155) 12.3%, in Huelva+Cadiz+Cordoba (n=77) 12.98% . I think they should be included in the maps of I and I2a. The study is old, Flores et. al 2004

I'll probably dig a bit more later.

I have read that 2 page thread. Well, did it come with the Vandals or not?

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(to avoid automatic censorship, the letters S and A had to be replaced by $ and @ in the discussed word - I hope it is obvious that it was not my intention to insult anyone)

van-gilse-dunkler-basterdzucker-5004-1.jpg(Dutch dark 'ba$t@rd' sugar)

Let us face it.

One of the reasons why the OLB is unpopular, is because some of its themes are politically incorrect.

For example racial purity.

The word ba$t@rd is used in many European languages and may well be very old.

ba$t@rd - english, german, danish, swedish, norwegian, welsh, romanian, polish

bastaird - irish

bastaard - dutch

bastarður - ijslands

bât@rd - french

bastardo - italian, portuguese, basque

bastardus - latin

μπάσταρδος (mpastardos) - greek

verbasteren - dutch

to bastardise (degenerate) - english

The best way to investigate a word or concept, is see in what context it is used.

Fragment numbers between (..).

Note the spelling varieties!

VRBASTERA SVNUM - degenerate (bastardised) sons (1)

VRBASTERE STÉDJAR - degenerate townspeople (5)

VRBASTERDE SLACHT - degenerate race (6)

VRBASTERDE FOLK - degenerate race/ people (15)

VNFORBASTERE SÉD - unbastardised (pure) morals (10)

VNFORBASTERE BERN - unbastardised children (11)

BÁSTERA BERN - ba$t@rd children (4)

BASTRED FOLK - ba$t@rd race/ people (13)

BASTERD BLOD - ba$t@rd/ mixed blood (2,8)

BASTERDE BLOD - idem (3)

FON BASTERDE BLODE - of mixed blood (9)

SIND BASTERED - are (have been) mixed/ degenerated (7,12)

HÀVON BASTRED - have degenerated (14)

fragments

1 [003/18]

WÉRON THA ÉTHLA TO HÀRDE FRYA.S

THÁ WENDON HJA THA STÉWEN

ÀND HILDON VPPAR VRBASTERA SVNUM AN

[O-S p.7]

Waren de ouders te hard Fryasgezind,

dan wenden zij den boeg

en hielden aan op hunne verbasterde zoonen.

If the seniors were true to Frya,

then they changed their course,

and turned to the degenerate sons.

2 [012/21]

HI IS EN HORNING MITH BASTERD BLOD.

IK RÉDE JO THAT J HIM ÀND SIN MÀM

TO THÀT LÁND UT.DRIVA

[O-S p.21]

hij is een bastaard [:hoerejong] met verbasterd bloed.

Ik raad u, dat gij hem en zijne moeder

uit het land drijft

he is a ['whoreyoung' with] ba$t@rd [-blood].

I counsel you to expel him and his mother

from the land.

3 [043/04]

HI IS EN HORNING MITH BASTERDE BLOD.

MÉI MAN HIN BI THÉR DÉD BIFÁRA.

SA MOT MÀN HIN VPPET FJVR WERPA

[O-S p.63]

hij is een hoerenkind, met basterd bloed.

Kan men hem op heeter daad vatten,

dan moet men hem in het vuur werpen.

he is a ['whoreyoung' with] ba$t@rd [-blood].

If he is caught in the act [:deed],

he must be thrown into the fire;

4 [077/30]

THA BÁSTERA BERN THAM THÉROF KEMON

WÉRON THA SKÉNSTA ÀND SNODSTA JN WRALDA

MEN HJA WÉRON ÁK THA ÀRGSTA

[O-S p.109]

De basterd kinderen die daarvan kwamen,

waren de schoonste en schranderste van de wereld,

maar zij waren ook de slechtste.

The ba$t@rd children of this connection

were the handsomest and cleverest in the world;

but they were likewise the wickedest

5 [078/10]

THÁ SVME VRBASTERE STÉDJAR RIK WÉRON

THRVCH VS FÁRA ÀND THRVCH ET SULVER

THÀT THA SLÁVONA UTA SULVER.LONA WNNON

[O-S p.109]

toen sommige verbasterde stedelingen rijk waren

door onze zeevaart en door het zilver,

dat de slaven uit de zilverlanden wonnen

when some degenerate townspeople got rich

by [our] sea-voyages and by the silver

that their slaves got in the silver countries

6 [078/27]

NÉIDAM RIKDOM

BY THÀT VRBRUDE ÀND VRBASTERDE SLACHT

FÉR BOPPA DÜGED ÀND ÉRE JELDE

[O-S p.109]

Naardien rijkdom

bij het verwende en verbasterde geslacht

ver boven deugd en eere gold

Because riches were more valued

by this lost and degenerate race

than virtue or honour

7 [079/19]

IK SJA NÉN FRÉSE AN SINA WÉPNE

MEN WEL VMBE THA SKÉNLANDER WÉR TO NIMMANDE

THRVCH DAM HJA BASTERED ÀND VRDÉREN SIND

[O-S p.111]

Ik zie geen gevaar {:vrees] in zijne wapenen,

maar wel om de Schoonlanden [:-landers] weer te nemen,

omdat zij verbasterd en verdorven zijn.

I see no danger in their weapons,

but much in taking the Scandinavians [skénlanders] back again,

because they are so degenerate and spoilt.

8 [125/21]

THIT HÉDE WI DÉN THRVCH ATH.SKIP TOFÁRA NÉARCHUS.

WAND WI HIM FAR BASTERD BLOD BIKÀNDE

THRVCH SIN FRISKA HUD AND BLÁWA ÁGON MITH WIT HÉR

[O-S p.171]

Dit hadden wij gedaan uit vriendschap voor Nearchus,

want wij kenden hem voor een basterd bloed,

door zijne blanke huid met blauwe oogen en wit haar.

We had done this out of friendship for Nearchus,

because we knew that he was of ba$t@rd birth [:blood]

by his white skin, blue eyes, and fair hair.

9 [131/12]

THÉR WÉRON FON BASTERDE BLODE.

THISSA MACHTON BILIWA.

THACH FÉLO GVNGON MITH THA FINNA MÉI.

[O-S p.179]

Er waren ook van gemengd bloed,

deze mochten blijven,

doch velen gingen met de Finnen mede.

There were some of mixed blood

who were allowed to stay,

but most of them went with the Finns.

10 [155/25]

BERTH.HOLDA WÉRNE FORSTE FON VNFORBASTERE SÉD.

HI HÉDE JFKJA NÉI TEX.LÁND INNA LÉRE SVNDEN

INNER HÁPE THAT HJA ÉNES TO BURCH.FÁM KÉREN WRDE SKOLDE

[O-S p.211]

Berthold was een vorst van onverbasterde zeden,

hij had Ifkja naar Texland in de leer gezonden

in de hoop, dat zij eens tot burgtmaagd zoude gekozen worden

Berthold was a prince [:first] of high-principled feelings [unbastardised morals].

He had sent his daughter to [learn at] Texland

in the hope that she might [once] be chosen Burgtmaagd

11 [163/32]

SE GELÁVATH THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.

SE GELÁVAH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL.LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.

HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN NÉI THA DELTA JEFTHA LÉGTE TOGEN IS.

[O-S p.221]

Zij gelooven dat zij onverbasterde kinderen van Finda zijn.

Zij gelooven dat Finda van uit het Himmellaia gebergte geboren is,

van waar zij met hare kinderen naar de delte of de laagte getrokken is.

They believe that they are pure [:unbastardised] children of Finda,

and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains,

whence she went with her children to the [delta or] lowlands.

12 [165/08]

FON THA GEDROSTNE.

THISA SIND MITH ORA FOLKRUM BASTERED

ÀND SPRÉKATH OLLE AFSVNDERLIKA TÁLA

[O-S p.223]

Van de Gedrosten:

deze zijn met andere volken verbasterd,

en spreken alle afzonderlijke talen.

Regarding the Gedrosten:

They have been mixed [:bastardised] with other people,

and speak a variety of languages.

13 [199/30]

THA FHONÍSJAR SEND EN BASTRED FOLK.

HJA SEND FON FRYA.S BLOD.

ÀND FON FINDA.S BLOD ÀND FON LYDA HIS BLOD.

[O-S p.241]

De Phoeniciers (Puniers) zijn een basterd volk,

zij zijn van Fryas bloed

en van Findas bloed en van Lydas bloed.

The Phoenicians (Puniers or Carthaginians) are a ba$t@rd race

of the blood of Frya,

Finda, and Lyda.

14 [200/02]

THRVCH THA VNTUCHT THÉR WÍVA

HÀVON THISSA SWARTE MÀNNISKA

AL.ET ORA FOLK BASTRED ÀND BRUN VRFÀRVET

[O-S p.241]

door de ontucht der vrouwen

hebben deze zwarte menschen

al het andere volk verbasterd en bruin geverfd.

by the unchastity of the women

these black people have

degenerated [all] the other people and dyed them brown.

15 [208/18]

THA KÉMON THA FRI WRDEN TWISK.LANDAR NÉI THÉRE RÉNE

MEN ÁSKAR NILDE MITH THA FORSTUM FON THAT WLA VRBASTERDE FOLK

NAVT AN ÉNE LÍNE NAVT NE STONDA.

[O-S p.251]

Toen [...] kwamen de vrij geworden Twisklanders naar den Rijn,

maar Askar wilde met de vorsten van dat vuile verbasterde volk

niet op eene lijn staan.

the Twisklanders who had become free came to the Rhine,

but Askar would not put himself on an equality [:on one line]

with the princes [:firsts] of that vile degenerate race.

Edited by gestur

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Bastard_zps7153b7b7.jpg

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

11th century....

.

Edited by Abramelin

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11th century....

What do you mean?

That the word was invented by the one who wrote it down in the oldest known, saved (accepted) source?

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What do you mean?

That the word was invented by the one who wrote it down in the oldest known, saved (accepted) source?

No, that the 11th century source is the oldest source we know of.

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Bastarnae

The origin of the tribal name is uncertain. One possible derivation is from the proto-Germanic word *bastjan (from Proto-Indo-European root word *bhas) means "binding" or "tie". In this case, Bastarnae may have had the original meaning of an alliance or bund of tribes. It is possible that the Roman term basterna, denoting a type of wagon or litter, is derived from the name of this tribe, which was known, like many Germanic tribes, to travel with a wagon-train for their families. Trubačev proposes a derivation from Old Persian, Avestan bast- "bound, tied; slave" (cf. Ossetic bættən "bind", bast "bound") and Iranian *arna- "offspring", equating it with the δουλόσποροι "slave Sporoi" mentioned by Nonnus and Cosmas, where Sporoi is the people Procopius mentions as the ancestors of the Slavs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastarnae

For the Dutch among us:

3. Kluge-Mitzka 55 nemen aan, dat ofra [Old Frankish]. bast ‘gemengd huwelijk’ [mixed marriage] uit het germ. zou stammen, waarop de naam van de stam der Bastarnen zou wijzen, die zich zeer met andere volkeren vermengd hadden. (Tacitus, Germania c. 46). Maar deze hypothese van R. Much onderstelt een nergens overgeleverd germ. woord *bast met deze betekenis, die dan weer uit de naam van de stam afgeleid wordt.

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/bastaard

""Mixed marriage" is the explanation, but not a very convincing one.

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The answer is BAST (bark, peel, husk) of a ('family') tree.

The least valuable part of a tree (or nut), that what peels off easily.

[167/29]

BY VS WERTHAT NOCHTA FONDEN LIK BERN HÁVEDA SA GRÁT.

THÉR SIT TSÍS ÀND MELOK IN.

WERTHAT SE ALD

SA MÁKTH MÀN THER OLJA FON. ~

FON THA BASTUM MÁKTH MÀN TÁW

ÀND FON THA KERNUM

MÁKTH MÀN CHELKA ÀND OR GERÁD.

Ottema-Sandbach p.227

Bij ons worden noten gevonden zoo groot als kinderhoofden;

daar zit kaas en melk in;

worden ze oud

dan maakt men er olie van;

van de bast maakt men touw,

en van de kernen

maakt men kelken en ander huisraad.

In our country there are nuts as large as a child's head.

They contain cheese and milk.

When they are old

oil is made from them.

Of the husks ropes are made,

and of the shells

cups and other household utensils are made.

M. Philippa e.a. (2003-2009) Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/bast

bast zn. ‘binnenste boomschors’

Mnl. bast ‘schors’ in de uitdrukking niet een bast ‘volstrekt niet’ [1290; CG II, En.Cod.],

bast ‘boomschors’ [1340-60; MNW-R];

vnnl. van schorsse oft bast van Boecke-boomen ‘van schors of bast van beukebomen’ [1628; WNT].

Os. bast,

ohd. bast (mhd. bast, nhd. Bast);

nfri. bast;

oe. bæst ‘binnenste boomschors waar touw van wordt gemaakt’ (me. bast ‘binnenste schors van de linde’ [1296]; ne. bast);

on. bast (nzw. bast);

< pgm. *basta- ‘schors’;

bij deze wortel ook → bastion.

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=MNW&id=02354&lemmodern=bast

Ook in den zin van iets van volstrekt geene waarde; in de uitdrukkingen:

— Niet een (enen) bast, volstrekt niets, geen zier.

Ook mhd. niht ein bast; mnd. nicht en bast. Verg. De Jager, Lat. Versch. 104 vlgg.

Weet wel, dat die van binnen waren dicke geëssalgiert sonder sparen, maer sine achtens niet enen bast, Lanc. II, 33803, Vlaanderen, 1315-1330.

Maer sijn casteel es so vast, dat hi om niemanne geeft een bast, III, 23593, Vlaanderen, 1315-1330.

Hine gave doer Gode niet enen bast, wie sere dat ieman hadde noet, OVl. Ged. 1, 79, 405.

Bedi wille hi een huus maken also vast, dat hi niet gave enen bast, al quamer die coninc selve voren, Ren. 656, Holland/Vlaanderen/Brabant, 1340-1360.

[... etc.]

=> So BAST also meant something of lesser value.

Metaphorically, from the peel of a tree or nut.

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In this very long thread , parts one and two , i expect you have had many conversations about whether the Tresoar copy is the original 13th C copy or not , and also on the page numbering , as it seems page 4 , is not the reverse side of page 3 etc ........have any of you kept a note of where you discussed these questions , so i can go back and read them , and not go over things you have already discussed.

it has always seemed lucky/weird , that in the Okke min sunne letter , that the writing on both sides of the page starts under the torn part of the page , as if it was originally written on a damaged leaf ??

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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