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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

Ald-land - Old Land, yes, but not the Old Land of the Fryans; it was the former homeland of the Finda. You say the homeland of the Finda was somewhere in the province of Groningen??

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I know how the sailors pronounced 'oud' ; that is the way how I (born in The Hague) pronounced it for a long time, lol: 'aht'.

.

No, I did not say that. I have once said, that the Gertmann were from Frisian origine and that it was a misinterpretation of Ottema to rank them as Germans. By the way it was the original idea of Ottema to rank the Gertmanna as Frisians, but he changed his view. OLB states that the Gertmanna kept their Frisian customs.

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My condoleances. Even on this age you would certainly prefer a more human end.

She died like the flame of a candle. She got regular injections of morphine (once every 4 hours). She died peacefully.

Thanks Knul.

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No, I did not say that. I have once said, that the Gertmann were from Frisian origine and that it was a misinterpretation of Ottema to rank them as Germans. By the way it was the original idea of Ottema to rank the Gertmanna as Frisians, but he changed his view. OLB states that the Gertmanna kept their Frisian customs.

It's because you mentioned the Zuidwesthoek, which is in the province of Groningen.

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I am very sorry to read what happened to your brother and in fact to all of you. It must be difficult for you to understand why this happened. I can only wish you strength !

Very kind of you Knul, thank you.

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The information on the Pamir Plateau is good. The amount of ice, snow and glaciers there would produce alot of water if they did melt. This was happening so it does seem logical that an area like that might be flooded, in valleys easy enough.

The Yellow River flood at 2200BC might also have been part of the flooding in the area.

The high mountains would have seemed like the touched God and I believe the same thoughts of this idea are everywhere. Gods on the mountains, you have Kailash and other sacred mountains all through the Himalaya, so it does seem this is where the Flood was and where these Magyar came from. Also, in China, Wu, is a form of Magy and I think the word is connected somehow, and it also shows signs of Christianity with a cross emblem.

All this ice melt might not have been quite so long ago imo. If drought was rampant c. 2200BC it would be hot, ice would melt, creating flooding in those areas, not as noticeable in dryer areas where drought and dryness dominated at the same time.

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Also, these people, once they left, I think, became tower builders, in their religion. Maybe that's what the Pyramid is, built by these priests who spread themselves everywhere, into everyone, in my own opinion. The tower of Babel, built by men who came to Shinar from the East, building it to reach God. The mountain can't get much higher, like Olympus, it's where the Gods live. The mountain falls, chaos, the sky meets the Earth and they unite, Atlas, to bear the weight of the Heavens so the couple don't repeat their primordial embrace.

An old map I saw, had Tuschenland on the other side of the Zuider Zee and beyond that is Groningen, maybe that's how Knul is seeing it.

If Tuschenland is Twiskland and you are keeping it local.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Also, these people, once they left, I think, became tower builders, in their religion. Maybe that's what the Pyramid is, built by these priests who spread themselves everywhere, into everyone, in my own opinion. The tower of Babel, built by men who came to Shinar from the East, building it to reach God. The mountain can't get much higher, like Olympus, it's where the Gods live. The mountain falls, chaos, the sky meets the Earth and they unite, Atlas, to bear the weight of the Heavens so the couple don't repeat their primordial embrace.

An old map I saw, had Tuschenland on the other side of the Zuider Zee and beyond that is Groningen, maybe that's how Knul is seeing it.

If Tuschenland is Twiskland and you are keeping it local.

I would be interested to see that map. Can you copy it to this thread ? Let me explain further± The Frisians and the Geertmanna lived side/a/side in the Punjab, their fleets fought side/a/side under Demetrius, they returned side/a/side to the Aldland and settled side/a/side in the present territory.If I remember well the Geertmanna went to school on Texel.

Edited by Knul

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I would be interested to see that map. Can you copy it to this thread ? Let me explain further± The Frisians and the Geertmanna lived side/a/side in the Punjab, their fleets fought side/a/side under Demetrius, they returned side/a/side to the Aldland and settled side/a/side in the present territory.If I remember well the Geertmanna went to school on Texel.

I'm not sure where I saw it but I actually thought it was your own website on one of those old maps you have on there. My computer crashed yesterday and I just got a new hard drive today, I have lost all my info and saved links or I'd probably have it on hand. Tussenland, or Tuschenland it was.

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So far we haven´t bothered much about the writers of the OLB. I found that the writers Frethorik (Friedrich), Konrad (Konrad) and Liudger (Lotharius) took their names from the last three German emperors before 1256 (Hidde). By accident ?

Oldfrisian: Ende aldus soo ist riocht baeden toe habbane ende toe haldane alla cristena fulke toe holpe ende toe nedum. [2.] Dit was di aersta konyngh efter Cristus berte: Octauianus, Augustus, Julius, Titus, Vespasianus, Tiberius, Gaius, Claudius, Nero, Domitianus, Alexander, Decius, Germanus, Traianus, Antonius, Aurelius, Constantinus, Constantius, Constans, Pilatus, Iulianus, Valens, Theodosius, Archadius, Honorius, Gallianus, Valerianus, Seuerus, Lucinus, Datianus, Commodus, Valentinianus, Martianus, Theodoricus, Numerianus, Maximianus , Liudgerus, Conradus, Fredericus, Hinricus, Philippus, Otto, Fredericus. Disse koninghe n ieuwen alla lioeden kesta ende landtriocht ende aller landekum zijn riocht. Dy aersta koning was Puppin ende zijn soene di minra Kaerle. Hi was minra ende was dech bettra, hwant hi leet scriuwa trouwa ende wirde, dat sint kesta ende landriocht. Di Puppin het scryuwa der koningha iewa ende aller lioeda kesta ende aller lioeda sonderge landriocht.

Duitse%20koningen.jpg

Edited by Knul

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I'm not sure where I saw it but I actually thought it was your own website on one of those old maps you have on there. My computer crashed yesterday and I just got a new hard drive today, I have lost all my info and saved links or I'd probably have it on hand. Tussenland, or Tuschenland it was.

Too bad !

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Too bad !

Look on your website at some of the maps you have on there.

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So far we haven´t bothered much about the writers of the OLB. I found that the writers Frethorik (Friedrich), Konrad (Konrad) and Liudger (Lotharius) took their names from the last three German emperors before 1256 (Hidde). By accident ?

Oldfrisian: Ende aldus soo ist riocht baeden toe habbane ende toe haldane alla cristena fulke toe holpe ende toe nedum. [2.] Dit was di aersta konyngh efter Cristus berte: Octauianus, Augustus, Julius, Titus, Vespasianus, Tiberius, Gaius, Claudius, Nero, Domitianus, Alexander, Decius, Germanus, Traianus, Antonius, Aurelius, Constantinus, Constantius, Constans, Pilatus, Iulianus, Valens, Theodosius, Archadius, Honorius, Gallianus, Valerianus, Seuerus, Lucinus, Datianus, Commodus, Valentinianus, Martianus, Theodoricus, Numerianus, Maximianus , Liudgerus, Conradus, Fredericus, Hinricus, Philippus, Otto, Fredericus. Disse koninghe n ieuwen alla lioeden kesta ende landtriocht ende aller landekum zijn riocht. Dy aersta koning was Puppin ende zijn soene di minra Kaerle. Hi was minra ende was dech bettra, hwant hi leet scriuwa trouwa ende wirde, dat sint kesta ende landriocht. Di Puppin het scryuwa der koningha iewa ende aller lioeda kesta ende aller lioeda sonderge landriocht.

Duitse%20koningen.jpg

Lothar III (III on Wiki, I note IV on your list above)

Conrad III

Henry Berengar

Frederick I

I see. Kinda unusual I agree.

However they are common names and repetitive as Dutch names are also, as were probably most names of Northern Europe inc Germany and Frisia. So that we have another Conrad and Frederick is not that odd imo, Lothar I guess could be Luidger, again, what seems a very common name.

Therefore I think it is unusual, but maybe not unexpected.

http://en.wikipedia....German_monarchs

Edited by The Puzzler

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Lothar III (III on Wiki, I note IV on your list above)

Conrad III

Henry Berengar

Frederick I

I see. Kinda unusual I agree.

However they are common names and repetitive as Dutch names are also, as were probably most names of Northern Europe inc Germany and Frisia. So that we have another Conrad and Frederick is not that odd imo, Lothar I guess could be Luidger, again, what seems a very common name.

Therefore I think it is unusual, but maybe not unexpected.

http://en.wikipedia....German_monarchs

A general problem with names in the OLB that they don't look much Frisian like the ones of Hidde and Liko. That's something we should worry about.

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A general problem with names in the OLB that they don't look much Frisian like the ones of Hidde and Liko. That's something we should worry about.

Dutch

Etymology

Proto-Germanic *kōniz (“bold, brave”) + Proto-Germanic *rēda- (“counsel”).

Proper noun

Koenraad ?

  1. A male given name, equivalent to Conrad

http://en.wiktionary.../Koenraad#Dutch

konered in the OLB

It does say this: My name is Konerêd (Koenraad). My father’s name was Frethorik, my mother’s name was Wiljow. After my father’s death I was chosen as his successor. When I was fifty years old I was chosen for chief Grevetman.

Chief Grevetman. Could be a Frisian name for a monarch.?

Conrad III's father was Frederick. His mothers name is not Wiljow though.

In 1089, Frederick married Agnes of Germany, daughter of Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor. They had several sons and daughters, amongst whom were:

http://en.wikipedia...._Duke_of_Swabia

There is many Konrads:

Conrad I (died August 20, 997) was Duke of Swabia from 983 until 997. His appointment as duke marked the return of Conradine rule over Swabia for the first time since 948.

When Duke Otto I unexpectedly died during the Imperial campaign in Italy of 981-982, he left no heirs. To fill the vacancy, Emperor Otto II appointed Conrad as Duke of Swabia. Conrad is notable for being the first Swabian duke to keep the title in the family; after his death in 997 he was succeeded by his son Hermann II.

There is considerable confusion about Conrad's family. The identities of his parents are not known for sure. This same situation exists for his wife, who is unlikely to have been a daughter of Liudolf, Duke of Swabia, the son of Emperor Otto I. He had at least six children, including his successor, Hermann II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_I,_Duke_of_Swabia

Edited by The Puzzler

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A general problem with names in the OLB that they don't look much Frisian like the ones of Hidde and Liko. That's something we should worry about.

Luidger variations sounds as Frisian as can be.

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acc to lagamons brut .....Hengest Hors and Octa (hengests son ) made a pact with the Bruttons ,after a war which the northmen lost , they agreed to convert from their Gods ,

the Bruts agreed to let them live , and there was to be a great meeting of all the Northmens elite , and the Bruttish royal houses and the religious heads would officiate

over their mass conversion , they were all to be naked (which meant unarmed ) but the Northmen hid long knives in their clothing , and on a given signal they slew all the

leaders of the whole bruttish elite in attendance .

Because of this Aurelie Ambrosius and his brother Uther came back from Brettagne and had to beat the northmen into submission again. Once done Aurelie scoured

the lands and found Maer-lin the seer , who advised Aurelie to give him an army to go to Yreland and steal the stones of the "Giants Ring " and bring it back , and

re-build it , as a tribute to all the Bruttish elite slain by Hengest's treachery .this was Stonehenge.

Stone-Heng( est) is in Amesbury , Wiltshire .....Amesbury was originally called Ambers-bury , .......with Aurelie being surnamed Ambr-osius looks like there could be a

link with the British royal family being Ambr-ones..............other places nearby .......Crickslade ( kreeksland ?)...... Ludgershall (liudgerts hall ? ) ..Lydiard House (Liudgard ?) is the stately home of Viscount

Bolingbroke ( be-Olim-) and broke (brochte/Murdered ) could his family have been some of the elite murdered by Hengist....... the river was called the Wylye (We lie )

dead , and the capital town of Wiltshire comes from Wilton ( As in Gods Will (was) Don(e) ?? ).

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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Krodo/Kroder. As a reminder 2 links to my posts about Krodo/Kroder:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=6210#entry4044332

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=5925#entry4002092

KRODO.JPG

http://www.celtic-coin-agora.com/agora/view.php?bn=celticcoin_cena&key=1224866184&v=f

Deutschland_Germanen_Gotze_Krodo_Statue_Gottes_Mann_Fisch_Hand_Gefass_Blumen;00029400.jpg

http://www.wenner.net/?artikelid=G29400

Goslar_Harz_Gotze_Krodo_Opferaltar_Altar_Domkapelle_Statue_Gottes_Mann;00004975.jpg

http://www.wenner.net/?artikelid=G4975

20258_29332_Krodo.jpg

http://www.winckelmann-gesellschaft.de/archiv+%28fuehrungen%29.htm

02_0671a.jpg

http://www.zeno.org/Brockhaus-1837/I/02_0671a

OK, now something new. I have translated German articles, and the English translation I have put in italics.

Krodo

[671] Krodo oder Sater ist, wie Einige behaupten, ein Gott der alten Deutschen im Harze gewesen, der, wie die Abbildung zeigt, als ein alter Mann mit bloßem Haupte, mit einem Rade und einem Blumengefäße in den Händen und einer weißen Binde um die Hüften, mit bloßen Füßen auf den scharfen Rückenflossen eines Barsches stehend, dargestellt wurde.

Diese Attribute hat man für Symbole der dahin rollenden, Last und Leid mit sich führenden Zeit und den K. selbst für den Gott der Zeit gehalten. Unter den Wochentagen soll ihm der Sonnabend heilig gewesen sein. Vielleicht gehörte dieser Götze auch ursprünglich den Slawen an, wenigstens hat man seinen Namen von dem slawischen »kradu«, d.h. stehlen, abgeleitet. An der Stelle, wo sein Bild stand, soll nachher vom Kaiser Heinrich IV. die Harzburg errichtet worden sein. In dem Dome zu Goslar (s.d.) zeigt mm noch seinen Altar.

Quelle:

Brockhaus Bilder-Conversations-Lexikon, Band 2. Leipzig 1838., S. 671.

Krodo or Sater, as some claim, a god of the ancient Germans were in the Harze, was represented, as the figure shows, as an old man with naked head, with a wheel and a flower vessel in his hands and a white band around the hips, standing with bare feet on the sharp dorsal fins of a perch.

These attributes have been considered symbols of rolling, burden and suffering leading to time, and Krodo himself was considered to be the god of time. Of the days of the week Saturday would have been his sacred day. Perhaps this idol belonged originally to the Slavs also, at least his name has been derived from the Slavic "kradu", ie 'to steal'. At the spot where his statue once stood, emperor Henry IV is supposed to have built the Harzburg castle. In the Dome of Goslar (qv), they still show his altar.

Source:

Brockhaus Images-Conversations-Lexikon, Volume 2 Leipzig 1838., P 671

http://www.zeno.org/Brockhaus-1837/A/Krodo

Krodo (Mythologie)

[219] Krodo (Mythologie), ein angeblicher, streng geschichtlich nicht nachgewiesener Götze der alten Germanen, dessen Bild auf der in Trümmern liegenden Harzburg, dicht über dem Flecken Harzburg bei Goslar,. gestanden haben soll. Man bildet ihn als bärtigen Mann ab, mit einem Blumengefäß in der einen, und einem Rad in der andern Hand, stehend auf einem Barsch. Er hieß auch Sater, was an Saturn erinnern könnte, und seine Attribute bezeichnen ihn allerdings auch als Zeitgott. Der Sonnabend wurde nach ihm Satertag genannt.

Quelle:

Damen Conversations Lexikon, Band 6. [o.O.] 1836, S. 219.

Krodo (mythology), an alleged, strictly historically unproven idol/god of the ancient Germans, whose statue was supposed to have stood in the ruined Harzburg castle, close to he Harzburg fields near Goslar. He is being portrayed as a bearded man with a flower stand in one hand and a wheel in the other hand, standing on a perch. He was also Sater, which could recall Saturn, and its attributes certainly describe him as a god time. Sonnabend (Saturday) was called Satertag after him.

http://www.zeno.org/DamenConvLex-1834/A/Krodo+%28Mythologie%29

The Krodo Altar from the Abbey of Sts Simon and Jude in Goslar dating from c. 1040

salier_krodoaltar.jpg

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4691&p=116156#p116213

Der sogenannte Krodo-Altar.

1100 bis 1150

Der teilweise vergoldete Bronzeguss-Altar ist ein herausragendes Kunstwerk der Romanik. Deutlich ist zu erkennen, dass er im Laufe der Jahrhunderte schwere Beschädigungen hinnehmen musste. Dies betrifft die verstümmelten Hände der Trägerfiguren, die hinter ihnen befindlichen Türme, die verloren gegangenen vermutlich edelsteinverzierten Schmuckscheiben, die sich in den zahlreichen Öffnungen befunden haben und schließlich auch die sichtbaren Versuche, die Seitenplatten ihrer Goldauflage zu berauben.

Sächsisch (Goslarer Arbeit ?), aus der 1820 abgebrochenen Stiftskirche St. Simon und Judas (Goslarer „Dom“).

The so-called Krodo altar.

1100-1150

The partially gilded cast bronze altar is an outstanding masterpiece of Romanesque art. It is clearly evident that it suffered severe damage during the centuries. This concerns the mutilated hands of the carrier figures, the towers located behind them, the probably lost gemstone decorated jewelry slices that were placed in the numerous holes, and finally the visible attempts to rob the side panels of their gold plating.

Saxon (Goslar work?) From the aborted 1820 Collegiate Church of St. Simon and Jude (Goslar "Dom")

http://www.immaginidistoria.it/de/immagine2_de.php?id_img=579&id=26

Zweifelhafte Gottheiten Teil V – Der “Götze” Krodo [Julian]

Krodo (oder Crodo) soll angeblich ein sächsischer Gott der Fruchtbarkeit, der Saat und der Gesundheit gewesen sein. Doch den einzig schriftlich festgehaltenen Hinweis auf seine Existenz finden wir erst in der Sassenchronik Konrad Bothos, die 1492 erschien. Dort beschreibt Bothos Krodo als eine Gottheit, die dem römischen Saturn ähnlich gewesen ist. Weiter berichtet Botho von einem kupfernen Krodo-Idol auf der Harzburg, dass den Gott als einen Mann darstellt, auf einem grossen Fisch stehend und in der Rechten ein Gefäß mit Blumen, in der Linken ein empor gerichtetes Rad haltend. Es wurde mehrfach die Vermutung geäußert, dass der besagte Chronist hier einfach auf ältere Quellen zurückgegriffen hat, die heute nicht mehr existieren. Er führt den Krodo auf einen importieren, römischen Kult zurück, da die Wortwurzel Kro/Cro keine Entsprechung im germanischen hat.

Doubtful deities Part V - The "Idol" Krodo [Julian]

Krodo (or Crodo) alleged to have been a Saxon god of fertility, seed and health. But the only recorded writing regarding its existence, we find only in the Konrad Bothos' Sassenchronik, which was published in 1492. There Bothos describes Krodo as a deity who was similar to the Roman Saturn. Furthermore Botho reported of a copper Krodo idol on the Harzburg, which portrayed the god as a man, standing on a large fish, in his right hand a container with flowers, and in his left hand holding an upwards oriented wheel. It has repeatedly been suggested that the said chronicler had simply resorted to older sources that no longer exist today. He leads Krodo back to an imported Roman cult, since the wordstem Kro/Cro has no equivalent in Germanic.

Die Sassenchronik bleibt der einzige Hinweis auf den sächsischen Gott, und so wird seine Existenz im wissenschaftlichen Tenor oft angezweifelt. Manche sehen in ihm eine neuzeitliche Sagenschöpfung, andere deuten ihn als das Nachleben einer römischen Gottheit, die von germanischen Söldnern in römischen Diensten zurück in die Heimat gebracht wurde. Obwohl es keinerlei archäologische Zeugnisse gibt, die diese Theorie unterstützen, berichtet eine alte Harzer Sage von römischen Legionären, die zu Cäsars Zeiten einen Saturnius-Schrein auf dem Burgberg errichteten. Hierbei wird auch eine Verbindung zum griechischen Gott Chronos angedeutet…ein namentlicher Zusammenhang mit Krodo?

The Sassenchronik remains the only reference to the Saxon god, and so its existence in the scientific tenor is often doubted. Some see him as modern legend creation, others interpret him as the afterlife of a Roman deity, which was brought home by Germanic mercenaries in Roman service. Although there is no archaeological evidence to support this theory, an old Harz legend speaks of Roman legionaries who built a Saturnus shrine on the astle hill during Caesar's era. By this also a connection with the Greek god Chronos is indicated ... a name-wise correlation with Krodo?

Im Jahre 780 nuZ. soll dann Karl der Große laut der Sassenchronik das Krodo-Idol auf der Harzburg zerstört haben. Bothos zitiert den “Sachsenschlächter” mit den Worten:

“Crodo ist euer Gott, der Teufel Crodo.”

- Konrad Bothos, Sassenchronik, 1492

In the year 780 CE, according to the Sassenchronik, Charlemagne destroyed the Krodo idol on the Harzburg. Bothos cited the "Saxon butcher" with the words:

"Crodo is your God, Crodo the Devil."

- Konrad Bothos, Sassenchronik, 1492

In den selben Zeitraum fällt die historisch belegte Errichtung der ersten Kirche in Osterwieck, einer Ortschaft, die bemerkenswerterweise im Krodo-Tal liegt. Die Kirche wurde im Mittelalter dann nach Goslar verlegt. Ein Altar, dessen Herkunft heute unbekannt ist, und der in der Kirche stand, trägt den Namen “Krodoaltar”. Vier dämonische Fratzen (Atlanten?) zieren seine Eckpfeiler.

In the same period the historically documented establishment of the first church in Osterwieck, a town that lies in the remarkably Krodo Valley, takes place. During the Middle Ages the church moved to Goslar. An altar, whose origin is unknown today, and standing in the church, bears the name "Krodoaltar". Four demonic grimaces (Atlantes?) adorn its cornerstone.

“Der Krodoaltar in Goslar ist ein vollständig aus Bronze bestehender Altar und gilt als einziger metallener Kirchenaltar der Romanik. Er wurde vermutlich im späten 11. Jahrhundert hergestellt und ist nach dem germanischen Gott Krodo benannt. Aufgestellt war er ursprünglich in der Stiftskirche St. Simon und Judas, die Bestandteil des Goslarer Kaiserpfalzbezirkes war.”

The Krodo Altar in Goslar is an altar made entirely of bronze and is the only surviving metal church altar from the Romanesque period. It was probably made in the late 11th century and is named after the Germanic god Krodo. It was originally in the Collegiate Church of St. Simon and St. Jude (Goslar Cathedral; built 1047), which was part of the Imperial Palace of Goslar. The altar had been removed by the time the church was demolished (1819–1822) and is now on exhibition in Goslar's Town Museum

- http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krodoaltar

1507 berichtet der Chronist Merian von einem weiteren Relikt. Ein edelsteinbesetzter “Rock mit Spangen” aus dem Besitz Heinrich I. soll im Innenfutter die heimlich angebrachte Abbildung eines “Crodo oder Teuffel” enthalten haben. Von besagtem Rock fehlt heute jeder weitere Hinweis. Er soll in den Wirren des 30-Jährigen Krieges nach Schweden gebracht worden sein.

Hier enden die Hinweise. Der “Götze” Krodo wird in Abhandlungen, Sagenbüchern und wissenschaftlichen Berichten über die Harzburg immer wieder erwähnt. Die Wissenschaft ist sich über die Existenz des Gottes uneins. 2001 schreibt Wolf-Dieter Steinmetz in “Geschichte und Archäologie der Harzburg”:

“Wegen des Alters der Überlieferung ist von Seiten der Archäologie ein Wahrheitsgehalt nicht völlig abzutun!”

- Wolf-Dieter Steinmetz

In 1507 the chronicler Merian mentioned another relic. A jeweled "Coat with buckles", from the possession Henry I, is said to have included in its lining a secretly attached picture of a "Crodo or Devil". Of said coat today lacks any further clue. It is said to have been brought to Sweden during the turmoil of the 30-year.

Here the notes end. The "Idol" Krodo is repeatedly mentioned in essays, books of legends and scientific reports on the Harzburg. The scientific community is divided over the existence of the god. In 2001 Wolf-Dieter Steinmetz writes in "History and Archaeology of the Harzburg":

"Because of the age of the tradition archeology cannot completely dismiss its veracity!"

- Wolf-Dieter Steinmetz

Desweiteren existieren rund um die Harzburg etliche Dorf- und Flurnamen, die Krodo erwähnen. Allen voran das bereits erwähnte Krodo-Tal, Crodenbeke (heute Krödklippen), Crodenlaida, Crothensee und Götzenthal. Inwiefern hier Sagen rund um die Ortsnamen “erfunden” wurden, oder ob diese Namen ihre Entsprechung und Ursprung in den Sagen finden, blieb bisher unerforscht.

Spannend ist auch der Hinweis auf die Pflanze Gundermann, die im Krodo-Tal früher “Crodokraut” genannt wurde. Ihm wurde eine Schutzwirkung vor Hexen zugesprochen und geflochtene Kränze aus Gundermann sollten in der Walpurgis-Nacht vor bösen Geistern schützen.

Furthermore, around the Harzburg there are several village and field names that evoke Krodo. Especially the already mentioned Krodo Valley, Crodenbeke (today Krödklippen), Crodenlaida, Crothensee and Götzenthal. To what extent legends were "invented" around the place name, or whether the name has its origin in the legends, remains unexplored so far.

Exciting is the reference to the ground ivy, which used to be called "Crodokraut" in the Krodo Valley. It was attributed a protection against witches and braided wreaths of ground ivy were supposed to protect against evil spirits during the Walpurgis Night.

Es gibt also keinen eindeutigen Beweis für ein Krodo-Idol im Harz oder für die Existenz eines solchen Gottes. Jedoch könnte vielen Sagen und Flurnamen ein wahrer Kern innewohnen, der vage Hinweise auf eine sächsische Lokalgottheit enthält. Auch ist die Herkunft des “Krodoaltars” bisher ungeklärt. Ob Krodo nun tatsächlich existiert hat oder nicht: Im Volksmund und in der Folklore des Krodo-Tals lebt er ungebrochen fort. Zahlreiche Hotels, Kneipen, Gasthäuser und Schwimmbäder tragen seinen Namen. Und seit 2004 steht sein Idol wieder auf der Harzburg und ist für alle Besucher kostenlos zu besichtigen. Wer Lust und Zeit hat, kann gerne eine kleine Opfergabe zu den Füßen dieser zweifelhaften Gottheit niederlegen. Vielleicht bringt es was…

So there is no clear evidence for a Krodo idol in the Harz or of the existence of such a god. However, many legends and place/field names could contain a kernel of truth hinting at vague references to a local Saxon deity. Also the origin of the "Krodo altars" is still unclear. Whether or not Krodo actually existed or not: in the vernacular, and in the folklore of the valley Krodo lives on undiminished. Many hotels, bars, pubs and swimming pools bear his name. And since 2004, his idol is back on the Harzburg and can be visited free of charge for all visitors. Who has the time and inclination, can lay like a small offering at the feet of this dubious deity. Maybe it does something ...

http://21ghosts.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/zweifelhafte-gottheiten-v-der-gotze-krodo-julian/

2-krodo2_1.gif

http://www.museumsverein-goslar.de/krodo-hw--75-.jpg

Goslar is a historic town in Lower Saxony, Germany. It is the administrative centre of the district of Goslar and located on the northwestern slopes of the Harz mountain range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goslar

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goslar_%28stad%29

+++

Fishes, Flowers, & Fire as Elements and Deities in the Phallic Faiths & Worship of the Ancient Religions of Greece, Babylon, Rome, India, &c. with Illustrative Myths and Legends

1890.

“In 1492, Bede mentions that ‘a God Krodo is worshipped in the Hartz, having his feet on a fish, a wheel in one hand and a pail of water in the other—clearly a Vishnoo or Fishnoo solar deity carrying the solar or lunar disk, and the ark or womb of fertility.

http://mirrors.syringanetworks.net/gutenberg/3/7/7/1/37713/37713-h/37713-h.htm#CHAPTER_II'>http://mirrors.syringanetworks.net/gutenberg/3/7/7/1/37713/37713-h/37713-h.htm#CHAPTER_II

http://mirrors.syringanetworks.net/gutenberg/3/7/7/1/37713/37713-h/37713-h.htm

i-246.jpg

The inscription of the Roman catacombs - acronym IXTYS and rune Krodo-Ul

http://breanainn.narod2.ru/2-13-religio_atlantica.htm

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And now <drum roll> :

Notice the fish...

Khidr.jpg

http://en.wikipedia....en_Man_of_Islam

Khidr

http://unmyst3.blogs...1/01/khidr.html

The French scholar of Sufism, Henry Corbin, interprets Khidr as the mysterious prophet, the eternal wanderer. The function of Khidr as a 'person-archetype' is to reveal each disciple to himself, to lead each disciple to his own theophany, because that theophany corresponds to his own 'inner heaven,' to the form of his own being, to his eternal individuality. Accordingly, Khidr is Moses' spiritual guide, who initiates Moses into the divine sciences, and reveals to him the secret mystic truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khidr

Al-Khidr (notice the wheel...)

khidr.jpg

http://majnouna-khat...8/al-khidr.html

Notice Khidr's seal...

e_09_siegel_des_khidr.jpg

Siegel des Khidr

Eine Manifestation der Erlösung bildet nämlich der Prophet Khidr (auch: Chezer, Chiser, Cider, Hidr; von arab. grün), der in Islam und Christentum als Ilyas (o. Elias) bekannt ist. Dieser legendäre ‚grüngekleidete’ Gottesbote entdeckte den Quell des Lebens, nach dem Alexander vergeblich gesucht hatte, trank dessen Wasser und führt (seitdem) Verirrte auf ihren richtigen Weg zurück (!) – und dies, obwohl er als Schutzheiliger des Hanfes gilt (oder vielleicht gerade deswegen?!). „Als der ewig jugendliche Hüter des Quells verjüngt er Menschen und Tiere und Pflanzen... und bedeckt im Frühling die Erde mit frischem Grün...“ (von Hammer). Er erscheint als schöner Doppelgänger, lebt sonst unsichtbar unter den Menschen, und in einer altarabischen Handschrift, die sich im Besitze Goethes befand, fand ich sein Siegel abgebildet.

Khidr's seal

One manifestation of the salvation forms the Prophet Khidr (also: Chezer, Chiser, Cider, Hidr, from Arabic green.) who is known in Islam and Christianity as Ilyas (Elias). This legendary, green-clad 'messenger of God discovered the source of life, after which Alexander had searched in vain, drank the water and leads (since) those who have gone astray back on their right path (!) - and this despite the fact he is the patron saint of hemp (or perhaps because of?). "As the eternally youthful keeper of the wellspring he rejuvenated people and animals and plants ... and covered the earth in springtime with fresh greenness ... "(by Hammer). He appears as a beautiful Doppelgänger, otherwise lives invisible among the people, and in an ancient Arabic manuscript that was in possession of Goethe, I found an image of his seal.

http://www.buch-der-..._05_utopien.htm

The Green Man motif has many variations. Found in many cultures around the world, the Green Man is often related to natural vegetative deities springing up in different cultures throughout the ages. Primarily it is interpreted as a symbol of rebirth, or "renaissance", representing the cycle of growth each spring. Some[1][2] speculate that the mythology of the Green Man developed independently in the traditions of separate ancient cultures and evolved into the wide variety of examples found throughout history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Man

++++

EDIT:

Btw, I am not suggesting the OLB was influenced by Islam, lol, merely that the Krodo god may have been akin to other legendary figures and people that had to do with time, death and rebirth in nature, wisdom, and so on.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Luidger variations sounds as Frisian as can be.

Ludger and variants are no Frisian names at all. s.http://depot.knaw.nl/8759/1/DGFriesland.pdf (in Dutch, but lists the 50 most populair names for boys and girls). It is a name of St. Ludger from Saxony (Germany) s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludger

.

Edited by Knul

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Krodo/Kroder. As a reminder 2 links to my posts about Krodo/Kroder:

http://www.unexplain...10#entry4044332

http://www.unexplain...25#entry4002092

i-246.jpg

The inscription of the Roman catacombs - acronym IXTYS and rune Krodo-Ul

http://breanainn.nar...o_atlantica.htm

No runes. IXTUS in Greek capital letters means Jesus Christus. in the so=called wheel you see the acronym XP (greek captals) for Christus. Has nothing to do with Krodo, Kroder, etc.

Edited by Knul

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Ludger and variants are no Frisian names at all. s.http://depot.knaw.nl/8759/1/DGFriesland.pdf (in Dutch, but lists the 50 most populair names for boys and girls). It is a name of St. Ludger from Saxony (Germany) s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludger

.

Among my father’s papers I found a letter from Liudgert the Geertman.

So, you think words like Liudgarda are not Frisian or Fryan?

Min burch lêid an-t north-ende thêre Liudgârda.

The Geertmen would be expected to have names that were not as Frisian sounding anyway by the sounds of this part:

Friso had taken here another wife, a daughter of Wilfrêthe, who in his lifetime had been chief count of Staveren. By her he had two sons and two daughters. By his wish Kornelia, his youngest daughter, was married to my brother. Kornelia is not good Frisian; her name ought to be written Korn-helia. Weemoed, his eldest daughter, he married to Kauch. Kauch, who went to school to him, is the son of Wichhirte, the king of the Geertmen. But Kauch is likewise not good Frisian, and ought to be Kaap (Koop). So they have learned more bad language than good manners.

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Ludger and variants are no Frisian names at all. s.http://depot.knaw.nl/8759/1/DGFriesland.pdf (in Dutch, but lists the 50 most populair names for boys and girls). It is a name of St. Ludger from Saxony (Germany) s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludger

.

But it's possible;

St Ludger's parents, Thiadgrim and Liafburg, were wealthy Christian Frisians of noble descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludger

It's not a German name persé, it's a Germanic name, meaning "People's Spear", or "Spear of the People".

And Frisian is a Germanic language.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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No runes. IXTUS in Greek capital letters means Jesus Christus. in the so=called wheel you see the acronym XP (greek captals) for Christus. Has nothing to do with Krodo, Kroder, etc.

It says "and rune". My Russian isn't what it used to be, but I know that's what it says.

That wheel could be the Chi-Rho sign (Pax Christi), yes, but the -P- is not very clear. It looks like a simple 8-spoked wheel

It's just that some Russian mentions KRODO, not whether s/he was right with the interpretation.

And what about the rest of that long post you appear to have read in 10 seconds?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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But it's possible;

St Ludger's parents, Thiadgrim and Liafburg, were wealthy Christian Frisians of noble descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludger

It's not a German name persé, it's a Germanic name, meaning "People's Spear", or "Spear of the People".

And Frisian is a Germanic language.

.

Yes.

I'm thinking more on Kroder.

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