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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

I apologise for my "Jumbled post " but note Abe has corrected the link , and hope that either yourself or your Rajput Historian can throw some " un-Jumbled "

light on the subject . thanks for your time .

Sure. I would definitely take the word of the Historian over you. Light of course.

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Posted (edited)

Sure. I would definitely take the word of the Historian over you. Light of course.

You have had the link i got the information from , are you saying Mulchand Chauhan was lying ? i was thanking you for taking the time to reply ,

and for asking someone who may have a better idea of the facts , but it seems you like to have a snipe at people , but then i have seen some of your

conversations with Harsh Patel , , so i know you find it hard to be respectful ,i will need to try to make allowances for you .

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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Posted (edited)

You have had the link i got the information from , are you saying your countryman was lying ? i was thanking you for taking the time to reply ,

and for asking someone who may have a better idea of the facts , but it seems you like to have a snipe at people , but then i have seen some of your

conversations with Harsh Patel , , so i know you find it hard to be respectful ,i will need to try to make allowances for you .

Naturally. The particular site refers to old studies and doesn't take into account any of the modern aspects like DNA, or modern archaeological, anthropological discoveries and records.

Second, I call a spade a spade. i am sorry, cant do anything about it,

Harsh is leaning towards the fringe and towards a Hindu nationalistic view. we have our arguments over it.

I would call his game any given time, if he spouts fringe.

There are lots of Indians who have got varied ideas and some of them totally whacky, some of them with a pseudo tinge. So, as a rational skeptic i would question such theories/ideas/statements and see if they can substantiate what they claim or state. If they can, i admit that i have been at fault and i would have learned something new. If not, i call their game.

I don't know which country you are from. But, do all of your country men have the same understanding of everything? don't they differ? Are there not fringies in your country or skeptics in your country?

Why should i accept a theory of an Indian, just because he is from India?

As for you, can you support all you have stated over here about OLB and the Indian subcontinent with proper records, verifiable data, peer reviewed documents?

If not, try.

If you are still at it, I will be there, questioning you and your statements.

Capeesh?

Edited by The_Spartan

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iemand plast altijd in het zwembad

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Dit geeft aan dat iemand graag anderen plassen in het zwembad kijken. :innocent:

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Dit geeft aan dat iemand graag anderen plassen in het zwembad kijken. :innocent:

Without Google Translator:

"Dat geeft aan dat iemand graag kijkt naar anderen die in het zwembad plassen".

:P

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iemand plast altijd in het zwembad

Without Google Translator:

"Er is altijd wel iemand die in het zwembad plast".

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और अब इस विषय के लिए सभी वापस

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iemand plast altijd in het zwembad

As long as it does not just turn into a contest of who can p*** the highest . i shall be thankful to anyone who can help discover who they may have been while in India.

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What do you understand with 'new' word? Only as of 1800's?

Ever heard of neologism ?

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Posted (edited)

It was used as early as 1827:

http://books.google....ijkheid&f=false

And notice this is a translation from German into Dutch.

And this is from 1822:

http://books.google....ijkheid&f=false

Is dat goed Nederlands? (is this proper Dutch?)

author: Charivarius

B. Duitse woorden in Nederlandse vorm (German words in a Dutch form)

eigendommelijk

http://www.dbnl.org/...a01_01_0015.php

Apparently everyone considered it to be a Germanism, and no one said, "Hey, it's Old Frisian !"

The original German words are "Eigentümlichkeit" and "Eigentümlich".

The Old Frisian form is:

êg-en-dæ-m-hê-d* 1, âin-dæ-m-hê-d, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Eigentum, Unfreiheit;

ne. bondage; Q.:

http://koeblergerhar...rieswbhinw.html

There's no êg-en-dæ-m-LIK-hê-d in Old Frisian, or EigentümKeit /EigentümHeit in German.

+++++

EDIT:

Here they use an example of "eygendommelijcke" with Goblerus' "Den spieghele der rechte":

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=M015751

And that's from 1560:

http://books.google....ENT900000059302

But you won't find an ancient example of "eigendommelijkHEID".

.

There are some earlier occasions, but in a juridical context only. The neologism eigendommelijkheid pertains to cultural environment such as literature. Probably the meaning of the word has been a topic for discussion during the walk of Halbertsma and van Lennep in 1836 in Gaasterland. As a linguist Halbertsma was very much interested in new words.

Edited by Knul

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As long as it does not just turn into a contest of who can p*** the highest . i shall be thankful to anyone who can help discover who they may have been while in India.

If this is the level of your contribution to discussions you can better go home now.

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There are some earlier occasions, but in a juridical context only. The neologism eigendommelijkheid pertains to cultural environment such as literature. Probably the meaning of the word has been a topic for discussion during the walk of Halbertsma and van Lennep in 1836 in Gaasterland. As a linguist Halbertsma was very much interested in new words.

You mean earlier occasions of the complete word, "eigendommelijkheid"?

The earliest source I found was from 1560, but it's only part of the word, ie. "eigendommelijk".

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If this is the level of your contribution to discussions you can better go home now.

Well, he only asked who can tell him more about the people living in India as mentioned by the OLB. And The_Spartan (from India) is the one to ask.

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Knul, do you have a link to an online copy of Ocko Scharlensis' "Croniicke ende warachtige beschryvinghe van Vrieslant" ?

I once had a link, but can't find it anymore. I remember it was all in Latin, and no translation (or only parts).

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Say Knul:

I find this all of interest that's why I question further (may I ;-). Hopefully my questions don't bother you and you don't chase me off from this public forum.

Apart from the fact that the word 'eigendomlijk' was seemingly used in the 16th century (Abe and your posts), I find it strange that adding the suffix -'heid' would make it a neologism of the 19th century. Nevertheless, if that would be one of the possible appreciations: fine.

But why a linguist as Halbertsma would use a word of which the meaning has been a topic for discussion regarding to be a neologism, in a fabrication to pretend to be ageold keeps a mystery to me. That's a give away he should have been very conscious of :-)

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Bah. Humbug!

If any tom, dick and harry can claim anything, then this gentleman called Rolf H.Bremmer , in his book

Hir is eskriven: Lezen en schrijven in de Friese landen rond 1300 [Here is Written: Reading and Writing in the Frisian Lands around 1300]. Hilversum: Verloren. 165 pages, 38 ills., map. ISBN 9065508171.

has written that

The most interesting chapter, in my opinion, discusses the "Friese Vrijheid," the myth of Frisian independence granted by Charlemagne, as reward for Frisian aid in beating down a popular insurgency in Rome. Bremmer discusses various indirect sources, such as seals and documents that refer to these rights; many proclamations and letters contain passages based on that founding myth. The Gesta Frisonum, a Frisian text preserved in a codex ca. 1500 and based on a Latin Historia Frisiae, preserves the mythical history of the Frisians in great detail: starting on an island off the coast of India, the Frisians travel to their present land in a journey that parallels that of the Israelites. This history culminates in a bloodless battle between Charlemagne and the Danish king Redbad, decided in Charlemagne's favor. Bremmer actually derives his title from one of the aforementioned judicial codices: "Hir is eskrivin alsaden riucht, sa us God selva sette anti kinig Kerl urief": "Here is written such right as God himself set for us and King Charles granted us." A final note in this chapter, and Bremmer does well to dwell on it, comes from another codex, the Second Hunsingoer Codex (Leeuwarden Hs. R 3), a collection that contains (besides legal documents and historical texts) a poem that recounts Frisian mythological history, called "Fon alra Fresena fridome," "of the freedom of all Frisians." Written out as prose, whereas elsewhere (in England as well as continental Europe) poetry in Latin was written out as verse, the poem contains a number of non-Frisian (Middle Dutch or even German) forms used for the sake of rhyme: Bremmer concludes that the poet must have had access to or acquaintance with non-Frisian poetic texts, that Friesland, in other words, was not the end of the world but very much part of it.

Hmmm...there goes the OLB.

Frisians were Indians. So all the land that belongs to present day Frisians belong to India.

hahaha..as if i believe that ****!

As i said, Any tom , dick and harry can claim anything.

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If this is the level of your contribution to discussions you can better go home now.

Ha Ha Knul ... its ok if they say it in dutch , but you are offended if its in English .........i think you don't like me much Knul :tu:

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Posted (edited)

Bah. Humbug!

If any tom, dick and harry can claim anything, then this gentleman called Rolf H.Bremmer , in his book

Hir is eskriven: Lezen en schrijven in de Friese landen rond 1300 [Here is Written: Reading and Writing in the Frisian Lands around 1300]. Hilversum: Verloren. 165 pages, 38 ills., map. ISBN 9065508171.

has written that

Hmmm...there goes the OLB.

Frisians were Indians. So all the land that belongs to present day Frisians belong to India.

hahaha..as if i believe that ****!

As i said, Any tom , dick and harry can claim anything.

You'd wish it was that easy....

Believe me Spartan, that has been posted quite a few times in this thread.

And there are many versions of that same legend,one of them making Friso a son of Shem, son of Noah, another having him and his family living in Jerusalem before they leave,and so on.

Btw, the island was called "Fresia the Blessed", and some think it was Taprobane or Sri Lanka,but yet another version has him travel from his kingdom to Taprobane....

One version has him travel around Africa, another has him travel through the Mediterranean.

If only you could read Dutch:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=9ppFAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=unno+emmius+ocko&source=bl&ots=6ZUjmgaBeR&sig=a91Sq1rZ0GGNrnpjKn236ccjXl4&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=pReOUZDKDoWc0AXniIDICQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=unno%20emmius%20ocko&f=false

.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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If only i could read Dutch too , i have spent all day so far trying to use google translate , only to get a couple of measly pages of Gobledygook , takes too long , and is not accurate enough ,

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Posted (edited)

If only i could read Dutch too , i have spent all day so far trying to use google translate , only to get a couple of measly pages of Gobledygook , takes too long , and is not accurate enough ,

And that's the problem: many sources are only available in Dutch, so to convince those who don't understand Dutch, Otharus, Knul, Gestur, Van Gorp (a Belgian), Alewyn (a South African) and I have to translate and often from sources that are centuries old.

"Centuries old" means old-fashioned spelling, and Google Translator (or any online automatic translator) can't handle that at all.

I think it's the same thing with ancient Indian manuscripts: all we non-Indians are able to read are those that are translated into other languages (mostly English), and then we just have to believe these translations are accurate. And that's why I am glad The_Spartan showed up in this thread, and so should you.

The_Spartan is not a 'bad' guy, but he has no patience for vagueness and bs and is kind of blunt, lol. And I don't have that much patience either, heh. Sorry. And my bluntness got me banned a couple of times...

I am also glad a guy from Norway started participating in this thread: "Apol", because he, with his Norse background and command of the Norse language, can give us new insights.

Btw, where are you, Apol? And Gestur? And Puzzler? And Alewyn?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

I know , and i do appreciate all you guys translating like you do , and i do hope The_Spartan can come up with some ideas , i know my stuff is mainly all theory

but i do try to always state that , from some of the comments i am just not sure if people would rather i was not here .maybe just a bit touchy .

at the moment i am reading as much as i can on Sandracottus , Chandragupta as i think we know he met Alexander , so there may be mentions of other

tribes he met around that time , that may be our OLB ex-frisians , so far the only closely named tribe i can find are the Vrijii who were a republican type clan

rather than a kingdom , so i am trying to find as much as i can on them , and i am also wondering if Alex-andra could have any connection with S=andra-cotta

note also a Roman Gens name was Cotta , as in Lucius Aurelius Cotta .........again just thinking out loud but think its worth me finding out what i can .

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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YOU are "touchy", Not us.

I grew up with 3 elder brothers... you think they listened to my soul's voice before they beat me up? LOL.

Man , grow some balls. We are not your enemies, ok?

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Have we got any idea what time frame Friso was alive , and did i read , or did i dream it , that Friso could have been in Alexanders Army ?

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You mean earlier occasions of the complete word, "eigendommelijkheid"?

The earliest source I found was from 1560, but it's only part of the word, ie. "eigendommelijk".

Yes, the complete word, but in a juridical context with an other meaning something like ownership. I found three or four occasions in the 1820's, but I was not interested in them.

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