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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

sege is witness. sega is sayer.

Is the ^ over it in the original OLB text I wonder?

Interesting word -

17, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Meer, See (F.), See (M.); ne. sea;

The Holy See (Latin: Sancta Sedes, Italian: Santa Sede) is the episcopal jurisdiction of the Catholic Church in Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_See

The term asega by itself is translated as "lawman" or "speaker of law", and refers to the Germanic tradition of having an orator recite law (which did not have to be written) in assembly, a practice attested in the Scandinavian Gutalagen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asega-b%C3%B4k

One part of the book is the Old Frisian version of the Fifteen Signs before Doomsday. Buma observed that the Asega-bôk's version has a style, compared to that of other versions, that is particularly Frisian.

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There's a lot of sega and seka words in the Frisian dictionary.

What are you making of Sêgabok?

The only one I can see however, with the same kind of e is

sê-g-e

murder... or

sê-ga-ng tidal wave.

seems to be referencing sea unless it just goes to a se word.

-------------------------------------

Edit: Found some answers.

The Asega-bôk, the name literally translating as "Book of the Judges", was part of the legal code for the Rustringian Frisians.[1][2] The oldest known manuscript version of it, the First Riustring Manuscript (now in Oldenburg) is, besides the oldest extant text in Frisian, one of the oldest remaining continental codes of Germanic law.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Asega-bôk

The known Asega Book is "the Book of Judges". The OLB version hints at the same, but to me it looks about sayings and proverbs which can also be interpreted as a sort of laws:

seg-a 30, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Sager; ne. sayer; Vw.: s. õ-; Hw.: vgl. got. *sagja,

ae. s’cga, ahd. *sago (2)?; Q.: R, E, W, F, H; E.: germ. *sagjæ-, *sagjæn, *sagja-,

*sagjan, sw. M. (n), Ansager, Büttel; vgl. idg. *sekÝ- (2), V., wittern, spüren,

bemerken, sehen, zeigen, sagen, Pokorny 897?

seg-e 5, afries., sw. F. (n): nhd. Aussage, Zeugnis; ne. witness (N.); Hw.: vgl. an.

saga (1), ae. s’cge, anfrk. saga, ahd. saga (2); Q.: W; E.: germ. *sagæ-, *sagæn, sw.

F. (n), Aussage, Rede; s. idg. *sekÝ- (2), V., wittern, spüren, bemerken, sehen,

zeigen, sagen, Pokorny 897

http://koeblergerhard.de/afrieswbhinw.html

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A sekenning or even a wittkening..?

seg-a

30, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Sager; ne. sayer; Vw.: s. õ-; Hw.: vgl. got. *sagja,

ae. s’cga, ahd. *sago (2)?; Q.: R, E, W, F, H; E.: germ. *sagjæ-, *sagjæn, *sagja-,

*sagjan, sw. M. (n), Ansager, Büttel; vgl. idg. *sekÝ- (2), V., wittern,

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Btw, did you read those "Fiftheen Signs before Doomsday"?

I did a week ago, and I was thinking of comparing that to the OLB scenario of the disasters of 2194 BCE.

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Yes, in the original OLB text, do you know if the e has the ^ above it? Or is that only in the transliterated text from Angelfire, sorry I don't have the Tresoar text/Knul copies on hand and you might find it quicker.

Btw, did you read those "Fiftheen Signs before Doomsday"?

I did a week ago, and I was thinking of comparing that to the OLB scenario of the disasters of 2194 BCE.

No I didn't but was thinking of trying to have more of a look.

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Posted (edited)

Yes, in the original OLB text, do you know if the e has the ^ above it? Or is that only in the transliterated text from Angelfire, sorry I don't have the Tresoar text/Knul copies on hand and you might find it quicker.

This is on Knul's site:

MS 39 :

Є-SEGSA* BOK

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

Not sure if that is correct, the Є connected with SEGSA BOK

.

Edited by Abramelin

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OK, thanks.

I think the word is 'saga' then really.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/saga

English

Etymology

From Old Norse saga (“epic tale, story”), from Proto-Germanic *sagǭ (“saying, story”), from Proto-Indo-European *sekʷe-, *skʷē- (“to tell, talk”). Cognate with Old English sagu (“story, tale, statement”), Old High German saga (“an assertion, narrative, sermon, pronouncement”), Icelandic saga (“story, tale, history”). More at saw, say.

Pronunciation

Noun

saga (plural sagas)

  1. An Old Norse (Icelandic) prose narrative, especially one dealing with family or social histories and legends
  2. Something with the qualities of such a saga; an epic, a long story.

also words like sooth-sayer, sage etc. - also a sekenning or witkenning could relate - as above post of Frisian sayer in Fris. Dict. alluded to those words.

Not a sea king... or a wit-king.

kan-n-inge

84?, ken-n-inge, afries., st. F. (æ): nhd. Kenntnis, Erkenntnis, Geständnis;

ne. recognition, confession; Vw.: s. bi-; Hw.: vgl. mnd. kenninge, mnl.

kenninge, mhd. kennunge; Q.: AA 65; E.: s. kan-n-a, *-inge; L.: Hh 55a, Hh 141b,

Hh 163, Rh 858a, AA 65

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Wait a minute, the Є is not a regular -E- but one with a hat on, lol. Like the one on the Angelfire site.

Btw, I'd like to add that that page on Knul's site has the original pages (photocopies) of the MS, the transliteration of every page, plus translations into Dutch, English, German, Italian, Spanish, and Norse.

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

Gawd...

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Interesting where these words lead...

The word for Scythians was Sakas.

Old English

Pronunciation

  • IPA: /ˈsɑɡɑ/, [ˈsɑɣɑ]

Etymology 1

From Proto-Germanic *sagô (“saw, scythe”), from Proto-Indo-European *sek-, *sēik- (“to cut”). Cognate with Middle Dutch sage (Dutch zaag), Old High German saga, Old Norse sǫg (Icelandic sög).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/saga

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Posted (edited)

Wait a minute, the Є is not a regular -E- but one with a hat on, lol. Like the one on the Angelfire site.

Btw, I'd like to add that that page on Knul's site has the original pages (photocopies) of the MS, the transliteration of every page, plus translations into Dutch, English, German, Italian, Spanish, and Norse.

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

Gawd...

Yes, gawd.

OK, back to se. See was a papal jurisdiction thing in Holy See.

That was a hat on e - the murder/tidal wave reference.

I'd much rather go with saga though, seemed way more logical.

Now, how does se with a hat equate to a see/juror thing..?

------------------------------

see (n.) dictionary.gif "position of a bishop," c.1300, from Old French sied, sed, from Latin sedem (nominative sedes) "seat, abode," related to sedere "to sit" (see sedentary). http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=see

se with hat must be relative to that above - the see, jurisdiction is seat, more than judge - this person, in the seat, is the judge. Sami have seidi's. They are surely the seat, of that family, the God protector.

The clan and family gods of the Sami were known in different parts of Sapmi under the name of Seita, Sieidis or Storjunkare. Each family or clan had its Storjunkare standing in the district where they lived. Every Sami settlement had its seita, which had no regular shape, and might consist of smooth or odd-looking stones picked out of a stream, of a small pile of stones, of a tree- stump, or of a simple post. They were set up on a high, prominent place, or in a rich meadow. http://en.wikipedia..../Sami_mythology

Maybe becoming interpreted as a judge of the sea.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Interesting where these words lead...

The word for Scythians was Sakas.

Old English

Pronunciation

  • IPA: /ˈsɑɡɑ/, [ˈsɑɣɑ]

Etymology 1

From Proto-Germanic *sagô (“saw, scythe”), from Proto-Indo-European *sek-, *sēik- (“to cut”). Cognate with Middle Dutch sage (Dutch zaag), Old High German saga, Old Norse sǫg (Icelandic sög).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/saga

They were throat slitters, lol. What are you suggesting: People of the Saw/Scythe?

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Yes, gawd.

OK, back to se. See was a papal jurisdiction thing in Holy See.

That was a hat on e - the murder/tidal wave reference.

I'd much rather go with saga though, seemed way more logical.

Now, how does se with a hat equate to a see/juror thing - like Minos was a judge. Some connection I'd think.

I prefer SAGA too:

The term saga originates from the Norse saga" (pl. sögur), and refers to "what is said, statement" or "story, tale, history". It is cognate with the English word "say", and the German sagen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga

Like I said: a book of sayings. But not just simple sayings or proverbs, sayings as meaning laws, rules.

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Posted (edited)

They were throat slitters, lol. What are you suggesting: People of the Saw/Scythe?

Suggesting that maybe Scythians were not named for the scythe, but rather because they were Sakas, which did wear pointy hats you know, like magicians. Sages.

Here's a King of the Saka:

Behistun.Inscript.Skunkha.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

All that sacrificing and burning of herb, like I said before on something else about them, if anyone was being run by sages, sakas, these Scythians were.

Nothing really OLB relative but just something I found rather interesting.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

Maybe you should reread what we already posted about it:

http://www.unexplain...20#entry4428452

In short:

-1- the name of the Scythians may have come from some word for 'shooting'

-2- both the names, Scythian and Sacae/Saka may have come from one single (Anatolian? Eastern Mediterranean?) word that was preserved in the Latin language as "sagitta' meaning 'arrow'.

-3- Their tribal name may have nothing to do with 'shooting' or 'arrow' at all, but may have been an abbreviation for Scythian tribes like the Massagetae and the Thyssagetae >> Mas-Sagetae & Thys-Sagetae.

"The classical and modern authorities say that the word "Massagetae" means "great" Getae. The ninth-century work De Universo of Rabanus Maurus states, "The Massagetae are in origin from the tribe of the Scythians, and are called Massagetae, as if heavy, that is, strong Getae."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massagetae

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Check this thread started by Kowalski :

Mysterious Minoans Were European!

Mysterious Minoans Were European, DNA Finds

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=247940&hl=

And then read my posts 3 and 5:

Post 5:

I see a difference: Kowalski's article is about genetic research done on 4000 years old bones (2000 BCE), mine is about bones of 8500 BCE – 4300 BCE.

So that would mean the Minoans of 4300 BCE and older are related to Anatolians, those of 2000 BCE are Europeans.

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Posted (edited)

All we need now is 4000 years old Minoan/Cretan bones and DNA extracted from those bones that indicate that these people were white, blond and blue-eyed. And when the skeletons are considerably taller than earlier skeletons, we're getting somewhere.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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A sekenning or even a wittkening..?

seg-a

30, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Sager; ne. sayer; Vw.: s. õ-; Hw.: vgl. got. *sagja,

ae. s’cga, ahd. *sago (2)?; Q.: R, E, W, F, H; E.: germ. *sagjæ-, *sagjæn, *sagja-,

*sagjan, sw. M. (n), Ansager, Büttel; vgl. idg. *sekÝ- (2), V., wittern,

The Old Frisian Asga (or Asega was a function, meaning judge. The Asega book is a set of laws and rules in the domain of the Asga, Asega.I think that the Oldfrisian text in the OLB has been copied from this Asega book, which was written in Riustringian. You may find Old Frisian texts on my website s. http://www.rodinbook.nl/oudfrieseteksten.html . The translations are in German and some in Dutch.

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Posted (edited)

This is from the other thread about the OLB :

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=247797&st=15

The original word is "Aldland" which was shortened by the sailors who visited it into "Atland". Aldland means "Old Land", and is still in use among the modern Frisians (Atlan).

And this is all the OLB mentions or suggests where Aldland was located and by whom it was inhabited:

In early times almost all the Finda lived together in their native land, which was called Aldland, and is now submerged. They were thus far away, and we had no wars. When they were driven hitherwards, and appeared as robbers, then arose the necessity of defending ourselves, and we had armies, kings, and wars.

===

Aldland, called by the seafaring people, Atland, disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over hill and dale that everything was buried in the sea.

===

About a Finda people (the Fryans called that tribe the Finns, their priests were called Magiar):

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland a people came out of the East.

===

Punjab, that is five rivers, and by which we travel, is a river of extraordinary beauty, and is called Five Rivers, because four other streams flow into the sea by its mouth. Far away to the eastward is another large river, the Holy or Sacred Ganges. Between these two rivers is the land of the Hindoos. Both rivers run from the high mountains to the plains. The mountains in which their sources lie are so high that they reach the heavens, and therefore these mountains are called Himmellaia. Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries there are people who meet together secretly. They believe that they are pure children of Finda, and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains, whence she went with her children to the lowlands. Some of them believe that she, with her children, floated down upon the foam of the Ganges, and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges.

===

When they were ready they began to disagree. Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middle Sea, and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda’s people. Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace. As the two cousins could not agree, Teunis planted a red flag on the shore, and Inka a blue flag. Every man could choose which he pleased, and to their astonishment the greater part of the Finns and Magyars followed Inka, who had objected to serve the kings of Finda’s people. When they had counted the people and divided the ships accordingly, the fleet separated. We shall hear of Teunis afterwards, but nothing more of Inka.

=====

When you combine all these quotes, then you get two possible locations for Aldland:

- It was far away from the Fryans who lived in Europe, so it could not have been somewhere in the North Sea, as is always suggested.

- Aldland was the homeland of the Finda.

- 101 years after Aldland, the home of the Finda, submerged, a Finda tribe (Finns) came from the east.

- Among the Hindus lived a people who claimed to be pure descendants of Finda,who was borne in the Himalaya.

All this suggests Aldland was located somewhere in Asia. I thought it was the Pamir Plateau that, according to some in the 19th century, was the location of Paradise/Eden and was once flooded (THE Flood) when the Tarim Basin - of which some thought had once been an inland sea - emptied during heavy earthquakes. What I understood from geology is that this never happened.

But the story of Inka and Teunis suggests it was located somewhere in the Atlantic, because Teunis entered the Middle Sea to go to Egypt, and Inka went the other way. Or it is a "Columbus" story who went to the west to search for Asia/Paradise. As I have shown in the other OLB thread, C thought that Paradise was located in SE Asia.

What I think is quite telling is that we do not read one single word about what happened on Aldland when it was still above water. Not even as some legend told among the Finda.

.

In this post I explained where Aldland/Atland should/could be located:

http://www.unexplain...15#entry4772321

But I must add an extra indication of where it might have been located (following the story):

The next is part of the description of the territory of the Fryans in Europe, of "before the bad time came":

On the other side [= to the east] we were hedged in by the broad Twiskland [= Germany], through which the Finda people dared not come on account of the thick forests and the wild animals.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#au

Mind you: this was in the time BEFORE Aldland sank. So the Finda lived east of Twiskland/Germany, and so Aldland/Atland, their homeland, should be located somewhere in Asia.

.

I have accused Puzz, Van Gorp, Otharus and NO-ID-EA of "lego linguistics", lol, but I must admit you sometimes get astonishing results....

OK, here it goes.

I had been thinking of Noah's Flood or the Deluge - in Dutch it's "Zondvloed" - and I checked the Dutch Wiki about it:

Zondvloedverhalen komen in meerdere culturen voor. Het woord 'zondvloed', afkomstig van het Middelnederlandse sintvloed, betekent oorspronkelijk aanhoudende vloed, maar doordat het volksetymologisch in verband werd gebracht met het begrip zonde, is het eerste lid vervormd geraakt.

Transl:

Flood Stories occur in several cultures. The word "'zondvloed', derived from the Middle Dutch 'sintvloed', originally means continuing flood, but because folk etymology associated it with the concept of sin or "zonde", the first member became deformed.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zondvloed

It is the generally accepted etymology of the word "Zondvloed".

Now this:

The province of Sindh and the people inhabiting the region are named after the river known as the Sindhu before partition and now called the Indus River. In Sanskrit, síndhu means "river, stream", and refers to the Indus river in particular. The Greeks who conquered Sindh in 325 BC under the command of Alexander the Great rendered it as Indós, hence the modern Indus. The ancient Iranians referred to everything east of the river Indus as hind from the word Sindh. When the British arrived in the 17th century, they followed that regional example and applied the name to the entire subcontinent, calling it India, from the word Sindh/Sind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindh

And then read about what happened very recently:

Sindh_floods (!!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Sindh_floods

And look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Pakistan_floods

Did something like that happen in that area in much more ancient times? It looks like it :

Asian mythology is complex and diverse. The story of the Great Flood for example, as presented to Christians in the Old Testament, is first found in Mesopotamian mythology, in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Hindu mythology tells about an Avatar of the God Vishnu in the form of a fish who warned Manu of a terrible flood. In ancient Chinese mythology, Shan Hai Jing, the Chinese ruler Da Yu, had to spend 10 years to control a deluge which swept out most of ancient China and was aided by the goddess Nüwa who literally fixed the broken sky through which huge rains were pouring.

http://www.answers.com/topic/asia

Matsya is described to have rescued the first man, Manu, from a great deluge. Matsya may be depicted as a giant fish, or anthropomorphically with a human torso connected to the rear half of a fish.

The earliest accounts of the legend associate Matsya with the creator god Prajapati (identified with Brahma). However, Puranic scriptures incorporate Matsya as an avatar of Vishnu. Matsya forewarns Manu about an impending catastrophic flood and orders him to collect all the grains of the world in a boat; in some forms of the story, all living creatures are also to be preserved in the boat. When the flood destroys the world, Manu - in some versions accompanied by the seven great sages - survives by boarding the ark, which Matsya pulls to safety. In later versions of this story, the sacred texts Vedas are hidden by a demon, whom Matsya slays: Manu is rescued and the scriptures are recovered. The tale is in the tradition of the family of flood myths, common across cultures.

(...)

Then Matsya tows the ship to the safety of the highest and driest ground, at the northern mountains (interpreted as the Himalayas).

(...)

Promising that he would sail the boat through the waters throughout the night of Brahma, Matsya disappeared after his revelation and reappeared as a horned fish on the day of the Deluge, when torrential rains drenched the earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsya

Now I seriously start doubting the official etymology of the Dutch word "Zondvloed", or the original Middle Dutch "Sintvloed". as meaning "Flood caused by sin" or the "Continuing Flood".

The original words (or name) could as well have been "Sindh Flood", or a huge flood caused by the torrential rains that drenched the earth along the Sindh (Indus) according to ancient Hindu legends. Medieval Dutch and Germans could have picked it up and explained it using folk etymology.

Cheers.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I have noticed something typical :

In the whole of the OLB the word for land is "land" or "lande", but only in the chapter about the "Hindoo" and the "Pangab" (Punjab) the form "lônd" is used.

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Posted (edited)

This is from the other thread about the OLB :

http://www.unexplain...47797&st=15

Now I seriously start doubting the official etymology of the Dutch word "Zondvloed", or the original Middle Dutch "Sintvloed". as meaning "Flood caused by sin" or the "Continuing Flood".

The original words (or name) could as well have been "Sindh Flood", or a huge flood caused by the torrential rains that drenched the earth along the Sindh (Indus) according to ancient Hindu legends. Medieval Dutch and Germans could have picked it up and explained it using folk etymology.

Cheers.

.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zondvloed tells more about it. Yet there is no single proof that Zond = Sindh. As all floods have been named after a holy man or woman, sint could als mean Sint (= saint).

Edited by Knul

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Posted (edited)

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zondvloed tells more about it. Yet there is no single proof that Zond = Sindh. As all floods have been named after a holy man or woman, sint could also mean Sint (= saint).

If you have followed my reasoning about the possible location of Aldland/Atland (according to what the OLB tells us about the Finda, their original homeland, the Hindoo and the birth place of their "Mother" Finda) throughout the years, you'd know that one possible location could be near the Himalaya.

Then there is this Hindu legend I posted about, plus the 19th century idea that Paradise/Eden was located near- and the Flood happened on/near the Pamir Plateau and/or the Tarim Basin, and "Sindh Vloed" (Sindh Flood) for the Dutch "Sintvloed" doesn't sound that far off as an inspiration for part of the OLB disaster scenario in 2194 BCE.

The question is this: who of the possible 'suspects' knew of these ancient Hindu legends of a flood? Halbertsma wrote a booklet about Buddha, but that does not imply he was acquainted with ancient Hindu legends.

That Dutch floods were named after a saint is because those floods took place on a saint's day.

+++

EDIT:

Personal observations on Sindh; the manners and customs of its inhabitants; and its productive capabilities (1843)

http://archive.org/d...lobservat00post

There are various opinions as to the origin of

the title given to this tract. By the Greeks, the

whole, or a portion, appears to have been known

as Sindomana. The Hindus trace it fabulously to

"Sindh, the brother of Hind, the son of Noah,"

and in their sacred books it is called Sindhii. Both

Hindus and Mahommedans style this portion of the

river Indus as Sindh, by which it is generally

known in the East, and it is thus probable, that

the river gives the name to that lower portion

of country fructified by its waters. The name,

however derived, is very ancient.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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This is from the other thread about the OLB :

http://www.unexplain...47797&st=15

I have accused Puzz, Van Gorp, Otharus and NO-ID-EA of "lego linguistics", lol, but I must admit you sometimes get astonishing results....

OK, here it goes.

I had been thinking of Noah's Flood or the Deluge - in Dutch it's "Zondvloed" - and I checked the Dutch Wiki about it:

Zondvloedverhalen komen in meerdere culturen voor. Het woord 'zondvloed', afkomstig van het Middelnederlandse sintvloed, betekent oorspronkelijk aanhoudende vloed, maar doordat het volksetymologisch in verband werd gebracht met het begrip zonde, is het eerste lid vervormd geraakt.

Transl:

Flood Stories occur in several cultures. The word "'zondvloed', derived from the Middle Dutch 'sintvloed', originally means continuing flood, but because folk etymology associated it with the concept of sin or "zonde", the first member became deformed.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zondvloed

It is the generally accepted etymology of the word "Zondvloed".

Now this:

The province of Sindh and the people inhabiting the region are named after the river known as the Sindhu before partition and now called the Indus River. In Sanskrit, síndhu means "river, stream", and refers to the Indus river in particular. The Greeks who conquered Sindh in 325 BC under the command of Alexander the Great rendered it as Indós, hence the modern Indus. The ancient Iranians referred to everything east of the river Indus as hind from the word Sindh. When the British arrived in the 17th century, they followed that regional example and applied the name to the entire subcontinent, calling it India, from the word Sindh/Sind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindh

And then read about what happened very recently:

Sindh_floods (!!)

http://en.wikipedia....11_Sindh_floods

And look at this:

http://en.wikipedia....Pakistan_floods

Did something like that happen in that area in much more ancient times? It looks like it :

Asian mythology is complex and diverse. The story of the Great Flood for example, as presented to Christians in the Old Testament, is first found in Mesopotamian mythology, in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Hindu mythology tells about an Avatar of the God Vishnu in the form of a fish who warned Manu of a terrible flood. In ancient Chinese mythology, Shan Hai Jing, the Chinese ruler Da Yu, had to spend 10 years to control a deluge which swept out most of ancient China and was aided by the goddess Nüwa who literally fixed the broken sky through which huge rains were pouring.

http://www.answers.com/topic/asia

Matsya is described to have rescued the first man, Manu, from a great deluge. Matsya may be depicted as a giant fish, or anthropomorphically with a human torso connected to the rear half of a fish.

The earliest accounts of the legend associate Matsya with the creator god Prajapati (identified with Brahma). However, Puranic scriptures incorporate Matsya as an avatar of Vishnu. Matsya forewarns Manu about an impending catastrophic flood and orders him to collect all the grains of the world in a boat; in some forms of the story, all living creatures are also to be preserved in the boat. When the flood destroys the world, Manu - in some versions accompanied by the seven great sages - survives by boarding the ark, which Matsya pulls to safety. In later versions of this story, the sacred texts Vedas are hidden by a demon, whom Matsya slays: Manu is rescued and the scriptures are recovered. The tale is in the tradition of the family of flood myths, common across cultures.

(...)

Then Matsya tows the ship to the safety of the highest and driest ground, at the northern mountains (interpreted as the Himalayas).

(...)

Promising that he would sail the boat through the waters throughout the night of Brahma, Matsya disappeared after his revelation and reappeared as a horned fish on the day of the Deluge, when torrential rains drenched the earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsya

Now I seriously start doubting the official etymology of the Dutch word "Zondvloed", or the original Middle Dutch "Sintvloed". as meaning "Flood caused by sin" or the "Continuing Flood".

The original words (or name) could as well have been "Sindh Flood", or a huge flood caused by the torrential rains that drenched the earth along the Sindh (Indus) according to ancient Hindu legends. Medieval Dutch and Germans could have picked it up and explained it using folk etymology.

Cheers.

.

Thnx Abe, interesting stuff.

I was yesterday also pondering about the similarity between Ab-e-sind and Abyssinia (Ethiopia).

Once I came accross that some used to term Ethiopia as India in earlier times. But this only to mention sideways.

About "zonvloed", I couldn't stop myself to check alternative etymologies as Bilderdijk (you never know if the guy has a clue in this one :-).

Interesting to find he mentions: zond (zont) as the much used (? did not investigate further) term 'sunt' in the northern parts of the world.

ZOND of ZONT oudtijds door geheel het Noorden ‘Sunt’ als zee engte Wellicht van zu en zuigen als zu end zuiging … ook Werd het oudtijds meer algemeen als zee genomen en gebruiken wy t dus V gelijk het ook naar de aangegeven afleiding zijn moest S 34 Zie zuwe

http://books.google.be/books?id=VuRRAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl#v=onepage&q=zond&f=false

He explains zont from zu-en (zuigen) -> to suck. Waters that is drawn (sucked?) into the land.

analogue with zoen (kiss) i assume.

For what it's worth.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Van Gorp.

Jaylemurph, HELP !! I'm hooked, lol.

VG, look at this:

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...db=ONW&id=ID861

SUNDA.... zonde... sin.

Sundaland is my next favorite topic, and again it's located in Asia.

+++

EDIT:

And then this: (DU:) SONDE

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M064981

stomach-pump (or probe), and again a relation with "to suck".

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Yes indeed, the sonde (probe) hadn't crossed my mind but glides in as well.

About zonde (like as sin), i had to think of the second meaning in Dutch (spijtig, to regret, painfull):

when fe realizing to have waisted too much money for nothing we say 'da's sunt' (that s*cks in english i assume :-)

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Posted (edited)

We Dutch say "Wat 'n zonde!".

Well, actually I say something like "Gloeiende, gloeiende, gvd!!" and so on.

Those Belgium beers really kick in, hah.

Just looking at my many bills from debt collectors (incassobureaus), the notice I got telling me I will be cut off from water-supply soon, my bank account being blocked with 17 Euros cash money left in my wallet, the housing association (woningbouwvereniging) telling me they want to kick me out because of not paying the rent for months... yeah, that sucks.

If I don't get that inheritance soon, you won't hear from me for a very long time. Maybe never again.

But I will continue posting as long as I have an internet connection.

Sorry if all this sounds a bit personal, dramatic, and private (and off topic).

And I DO know I have said something similar before. But when you follow "the way of the crow", you will be able get funds from various sources.

But at some point those sources will dry up.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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