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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

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This whole discussion about the etymology of the word "salt-atha" is nothing but a feeble attempt to prove the OLB right.

As any (almost) blind person can see, the origin or the Dutch/Fryan word "salt-atha" was a Latin/Roman word, a word related to a word meaning 'hiring people to fight for you'.

Mercenaries.

.

.

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This whole discussion about the etymology of the word "salt-atha" is nothing but a feeble attempt to prove the OLB right.

As any (almost) blind person can see, the origin or the Dutch/Fryan word "salt-atha" was a Latin/Roman word, a word related to a word meaning 'hiring people to fight for you'.

Mercenaries.

.

.

The origin of Dutch soldier might be Latin but salt-atha was a Latin/Roman word? You're kidding right?

Anyway I'm going to bed.

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I don't know how things go in Australia, but when I meet someone I trust and like, I won't ask him/her to swear on the Bible before they become my friend, buddy, pal, whatever.

.

No one swears on the Bible, but a blood oath is a common bond between friends. It's also an unsaid form of loyalty and trust - it's a foundation for friendship.

Maybe because the word is not actually Dutch you don't get it.

Extract salt from the sea yourself? Right...

Goodnight for now, my friend. :innocent:

Edited by The Puzzler

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The origin of the Dutch 'soldier' might be Latin, but salt-atha was a Latin/Roman word. You're kidding right?

Anyway I'm going to bed.

I am not kidding about the origin of the word ""salt-atha" being a Latin/Roman word.

I am convinced it was originally a Latin word.

The OLB suggests a crap etymology, "salt friends", and I won't buy that, ever.

And don't start again about "oath", because that has nothing to do with the word "salt-atha."

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The quote about how Athens got its name according to the OLB proves you wrong. The Fryans were strangers in Greece, but they got a very friendly welcome, like they were old friends.

What does that have to do with any "oath"?

.

OK, I can't help myself, one more...

Min-erva asked if we might settle there peaceably. This was agreed to on. the condition that we should help them to fight against their neighbours, who came continually to carry away their children and to rob their dwellings. Then we built a citadel at an hour’s distance from the harbour. By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends (âtha).

The bolded part is the oath connection. They weren't just friends, they made an oath (had conditions they agreed on) and that is why they were friends, and allies from then on.

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No one swears on the Bible, but a blood oath is a common bond between friends. It's also an unsaid form of loyalty and trust - it's a foundation for friendship.

Maybe because the word is not actually Dutch you don't get it.

Extract salt from the sea yourself? Right...

Goodnight for now, my friend. :innocent:

The Dutch and Frisians are as close as Abel and Cain once were, lol.

Then Cain smashed that Frisian politically correct head of Abel, and now we are still talking about it

And Puzz, when was the last time you found a friend, and asked him for a 'blood oath??

Come on..

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I am not kidding about the origin of the word ""salt-atha" being a Latin/Roman word.

I am convinced it was originally a Latin word.

The OLB suggests a crap etymology, "salt friends", and I won't buy that, ever.

And don't start again about "oath", because that has nothing to do with the word "salt-atha."

So atha is clearly in the Frisian dictionary but you don't think it's that word? You'd rather think that it is a Latin word? OK...

êth 200 und häufiger, âth, ê-th, â-th, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Eid; ne. oath

I do think it is the word, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one it seems.

Edited by The Puzzler

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The Dutch and Frisians are as close as Abel and Cain once were, lol.

Then Cain smashed that Frisian politically correct head of Abel, and now we are still talking about it

And Puzz, when was the last time you found a friend, and asked him for a 'blood oath??

Come on..

I'm just saying it's an example of how friends take oaths, seriously, the word is a foundation for friendship based on a said or unsaid form of loyalty, an oath. To me it's so obvious, but I guess it shows how different two people can think.

atha is friends by way of an oath (of loyalty etc)

salt-atha is possibly then same, paid by way of salt to be loyal to you. Many soldiers or mercenaries as you said, became loyal at the drop of a hat to anyone if they paid them enough, these imo would be a kind of salt-atha.

So, that's my last say on it and now I am really going to bed, night all.

Edited by The Puzzler

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So atha is clearly in the Frisian dictionary but you don't think it's that word? You'd rather think that it is a Latin word? OK...

êth 200 und häufiger, âth, ê-th, â-th, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Eid; ne. oath

I do think it is the word, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one it seems.

"Atha" is in the (Old) Frisian dictionary??

Show me, please.

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I'm just saying it's an example of how friends take oaths, seriously, the word is a foundation for friendship based on a said or unsaid form of loyalty, an oath. To me it's so obvious, but I guess it shows how different two people can think.

atha is friends by way of an oath (of loyalty etc)

salt-atha is possibly then same, paid by way of salt to be loyal to you. Many soldiers or mercenaries as you said, became loyal at the drop of a hat to anyone if they paid them enough, these imo would be a kind of salt-atha.

So, that's my last say on it and now I am really going to bed, night all.

Well, maybe it's nothing but a difference in culture, but here we accept our friends as they are, without the obligation to spill blood or swear on the Bible to prove they are true friends.

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Well, maybe it's nothing but a difference in culture, but here we accept our friends as they are, without the obligation to spill blood or swear on the Bible to prove they are true friends.

It is how things were in ancient society , the king owned the land and he rented it out to the aristocracy at a monetary price and tythe of produce, and for a promise (oath if you like ) that a certain number of soldiers could be relied on to be supplied by that Baron,Duke , Earl whatever ,That is where the Hundreds came from before Counties ( although county is probably related , to a count of how many warriors you had to produce from your tennants in times of war) and hundreds were the same the land was divided up , and each area had to produce 100 warriors when called upon...........these warrior/tennants could be called your friends sarcastically, but they really were only your friends because they were given the use of the land,and gave an oath to defend it .

this may have been even more relevant to the Fris who came back from India , Indian Kings paid the Ksatriyas to be a standing army their job was not to plough the land , or to be priests , but purely to be expert/ trained in all forms of warfare...........You know all this already Abe , why are you being so adamant on it .

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You're smoking pot, right?

Good.

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You're smoking pot, right?

Good.

...all you hennep-atha

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"Atha" is in the (Old) Frisian dictionary??

Show me, please.

Well, I already showed a similar word from the Old Frisian dictionary:

aththa 40, atta, etta* (2), a-th-th-a, a-t-t-a, e-t-t-a* (2), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Geschworener; ne. juryman; Vw.: s. dīk-, *e-, un-e-, ze-r-k-, -man-n; Hw.: s. ê-th-a (1); Q.: R, W, S, Schw; E.: s. ê-th; W.: nfries. aita.

http://koeblergerhard.de/afries/afries_a.html

... but it obviously has nothing to do with the OLB: not a 'friend', not a 'comrade'.

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"Atha" is in the (Old) Frisian dictionary??

Show me, please.

OK, I showed you êth 200 und häufiger, âth, ê-th, â-th, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Eid; ne. oath

âth, ê-th, â-th

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It is how things were in ancient society , the king owned the land and he rented it out to the aristocracy at a monetary price and tythe of produce, and for a promise (oath if you like ) that a certain number of soldiers could be relied on to be supplied by that Baron,Duke , Earl whatever ,That is where the Hundreds came from before Counties ( although county is probably related , to a count of how many warriors you had to produce from your tennants in times of war) and hundreds were the same the land was divided up , and each area had to produce 100 warriors when called upon...........these warrior/tennants could be called your friends sarcastically, but they really were only your friends because they were given the use of the land,and gave an oath to defend it .

this may have been even more relevant to the Fris who came back from India , Indian Kings paid the Ksatriyas to be a standing army their job was not to plough the land , or to be priests , but purely to be expert/ trained in all forms of warfare...........You know all this already Abe , why are you being so adamant on it .

Well I hear you.

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I showed this a few posts back, but how ironic - that if the oath is Atha in Athens and therefore possibly Athena, it's this concept that Athenian democracy is based on...

Greek tradition c.400 BCE

Walter Burkert has shown that since Lycurgus of Athens (d. 324 BCE), who held that "it is the oath which holds democracy together", religion, morality and political organization had been linked by the oath, and the oath and its prerequisite altar had become the basis of both civil and criminal, as well as international law.Burkert, Greek Religion, trans. Raffan, Harvard University Press (1985), 250ff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath

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OK, I showed you êth 200 und häufiger, âth, ê-th, â-th, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Eid; ne. oath

âth, ê-th, â-th

That's not "âtha". This is not about some 'oath', but about friends, compadres, comrades, pals, buddies.

People you like, love and trust for what they are, not people who have to swear they'll be loyal to you.

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It is how things were in ancient society , the king owned the land and he rented it out to the aristocracy at a monetary price and tythe of produce, and for a promise (oath if you like ) that a certain number of soldiers could be relied on to be supplied by that Baron,Duke , Earl whatever ,That is where the Hundreds came from before Counties ( although county is probably related , to a count of how many warriors you had to produce from your tennants in times of war) and hundreds were the same the land was divided up , and each area had to produce 100 warriors when called upon...........these warrior/tennants could be called your friends sarcastically, but they really were only your friends because they were given the use of the land,and gave an oath to defend it .

this may have been even more relevant to the Fris who came back from India , Indian Kings paid the Ksatriyas to be a standing army their job was not to plough the land , or to be priests , but purely to be expert/ trained in all forms of warfare...........You know all this already Abe , why are you being so adamant on it .

Because the OLB suggests a different explanation, and we are here discussing the OLB.

The OLB "atha" doesn't suggest anything to do with some 'oath'.

7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.

7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

"âtha " is the opposite of 'haters', What does that have to do with some oath?

Or this:

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends.

You see any hint to some 'oath' in that quote?

I don't.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.

7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

I'd suggest "allies and friends" here.

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[/size]

I'd suggest "allies and friends" here.

Yeah, that's better.

But now again about that word, "salt-atha".

"Friends of the salt", or maybe "allies of the salt" is nonsense, agreed?

My point is that someone tried to fabricate an etymology for the (Dutch) word "soldaat" (soldier), but failed.

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"Friends of the salt", or maybe "allies of the salt" is nonsense, agreed?

I'd just say "salt-allies" and don't think that's nonsense in the context.

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[/size]

I'd just say "salt-allies" and don't think that's nonsense in the context.

Really? Salt Allies?

Think about it for some time, and then you'll realize it's nothing but a nonsense folk-etymology.

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The words 'salt' and 'solid' may share etymological origin.

'Solid-allies' makes sense

Edited by lilthor

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Think about it for some time, and then you'll realize it's nothing but a nonsense folk-etymology.

allies-paid-in-salt

I have seen mainstream (oldschool) etymologies that make less sense.

Your "friends of the salt" is misleading.

Would you transalte "wapenbroeders" (brothers in arms; 'weaponbrothers') as "brothers of the weapons"?

And even if it is a 'folk-etymology', it can be a thousands-years old one.

It would not prove OLB to be a hoax.

Edited by gestur

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